Animation cancelling and you! (Thread 99999)

Gilvoth

i hope one day animation canceling will be removed from eso.

Kel

Animation canceling is what it is in ESO.
I'm ok at it, and those players who are pros at it will always beat me. Just like I'll always beat those who can't do it well or at all.
Either way, I could care less about this issue personally, but I will say this. If Zos was truly interested in raising the floor and lowering the ceiling like they say they are, getting rid of animation canceling would go along way to doing that.
Or, we can keep going with the solution they keep implementing now...adding proc sets to accomplish that goal.
Funny how these two ideas clash, eh? Thoes who are pro at animation canceling want proc sets removed, and thoes who use proc sets want animation canceling removed...
One thing is clear though...seems our choice as players is no choice at all. Embrace both or play elsewhere.

adeptusminor

I do so much animation cancelling I'm able to pvp in Cyodiil from Deshaan.

kadar

adeptusminor wrote: »

I do so much animation cancelling I'm able to pvp in Cyodiil from Deshaan.

Teach me, senpai

ShadowHvo

Animation Cancelling ruined PvP, there is no proper fight to be had when you cannot truly respond to the actions of an enemy, especially one that is capable of firing 4 - 6 spells per second.

Its a shame truly.

Aurielle

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Animation Cancelling ruined PvP, there is no proper fight to be had when you cannot truly respond to the actions of an enemy, especially one that is capable of firing 4 - 6 spells per second.

Its a shame truly.

A shame? More like a fallacy. NO ONE can fire 4-6 spells per second with animation cancelling/macroing because there is a GLOBAL COOLDOWN on skills. If you are on PC, there is even an add on you can install that visually displays the GCD.

Edit: here you go: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html

SilverWF

Skill, LA, Bash - that's 3.
Add here Poison/Enchant and Proc on set.

All of that makes ppl frustrating. Because they feel themselves helpless against such huge damage in the one timestamp. And they are really helpless - that's not only just feeling.

Rework skill animations - and the gameplay would become much better

Aurielle

SilverWF wrote: »

Skill, LA, Bash - that's 3.
Add here Poison/Enchant and Proc on set.

All of that makes ppl frustrating. Because they feel themselves helpless against such huge damage in the one timestamp. And they are really helpless - that's not only just feeling.

Rework skill animations - and the gameplay would become much better

If you die to a light attack, a skill, a bash, and a poison/set proc, you have bigger problems on your hands than animation cancelling.

Also, the above combination of damage sources STILL does not in any way involve speeding up combat beyond what is “intended” or bypassing the GCD. Light attacks, bashes, poisons, and procs are not affected by the global skill cooldown, nor do they alter the global skill cooldown.

witchdoctor

Aurielle wrote: »

Also, the above combination of damage sources STILL does not in any way involve speeding up combat beyond what is “intended” or bypassing the GCD. Light attacks, bashes, poisons, and procs are not affected by the global skill cooldown, nor do they alter the global skill cooldown.

While I appreciate you are 'fighting the good fight,' you are arguing with people who simply cannot, or won't, understand.

It's easier to think of it as 'voodoo' than care to learn the game is more complex than 'push-button-see-skill-go-off.'

DuskMarine

this has so many threads can people just accept its a mmo feature and deal with it already?

kadar

SilverWF wrote: »

Skill, LA, Bash - that's 3.
Add here Poison/Enchant and Proc on set.

All of that makes ppl frustrating. Because they feel themselves helpless against such huge damage in the one timestamp. And they are really helpless - that's not only just feeling.

Rework skill animations - and the gameplay would become much better

Yeah that's aka 1 spell per second, or put another way, 3 actions per second. The people many of us are trying to have a discussion with actually believe that they are being killed by cheaters performing 4+ abilitiesper second.

3 actions per second is the absolute maximum result a macro (or a a player) can produce. Even that isn't a realistic situation. Since the death of the old Viper set meta, there's no practical reason to even want to do that. It's a massive stam drain for a DD for very little gain.

I think you and I know that, but the folks with the tinfoil hats (you know the ones) don't.

mikemacon

Royaji wrote: »

Most of the time "five skills in 1 second" ends up being 2 dot ticks, light attack, dizzying swing and executioner. Normally landed over two seconds as well but people like to exaggerate

Lethal Arrow has a 1.1 second cast time.

I just got hit by five in a very short time period from the same guy.

Lag? Perhaps.

But that same guy does this same thing time and time and time and time and time again.

I’m going to say not lag.

Waffennacht

mikemacon wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Most of the time "five skills in 1 second" ends up being 2 dot ticks, light attack, dizzying swing and executioner. Normally landed over two seconds as well but people like to exaggerate

Lethal Arrow has a 1.1 second cast time.

I just got hit by five in a very short time period from the same guy.

Lag? Perhaps.

But that same guy does this same thing time and time and time and time and time again.

I’m going to say not lag.

Lethal arrow has a Health desync Bug and Animation Bug

It was cast 5 times, it's just that you didn't get to see any of it or have an opportunity to react

https://youtu.be/CQVaYYdH0y8

Ampnode

Aurielle wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Animation Cancelling ruined PvP, there is no proper fight to be had when you cannot truly respond to the actions of an enemy, especially one that is capable of firing 4 - 6 spells per second.

Its a shame truly.

A shame? More like a fallacy. NO ONE can fire 4-6 spells per second with animation cancelling/macroing because there is a GLOBAL COOLDOWN on skills. If you are on PC, there is even an add on you can install that visually displays the GCD.

Edit: here you go: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html

Y'know, it doesn't matter how much logic you put into explaining what a global cooldown is. You won't get through the thick skull of an individual with a superiority complex.

Sergykid

animation cancel is fake. The only thing that actually cancels are light attacks, and that is light attack weaving and is part of a skillful rotation. Even if you cancel the animation of abilities or not, you will attack exactly in the same way. If i cast javelin and while it shoots i cast vampire bane, those will hit in the exact same time like i would block between them. The only win you can get here is casting a light attack between them, which as i said above is weaving and is perfectly acceptable and recommended.

idk

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Animation Cancelling ruined PvP, there is no proper fight to be had when you cannot truly respond to the actions of an enemy, especially one that is capable of firing 4 - 6 spells per second.

Its a shame truly.

Yet PvP still exists in ESO even though animation canceling has been in the game since beta.

Also, I suggest you read some of the posts on the first page. They explain how your comment of one player firing off 4-6 spells per second is not correct and also have a few explanation why some players seem to think this.

ATomiX96

if you need macros for block canceling please uninstall there are better options around for you.

kadar

Sergykid wrote: »

animation cancel is fake. The only thing that actually cancels are light attacks, and that is light attack weaving and is part of a skillful rotation. Even if you cancel the animation of abilities or not, you will attack exactly in the same way. If i cast javelin and while it shoots i cast vampire bane, those will hit in the exact same time like i would block between them. The only win you can get here is casting a light attack between them, which as i said above is weaving and is perfectly acceptable and recommended.

Well you can also cancel the animations of abilities by blocking, bashing, weapon swapping, or rolling.

SupremeRissole

learn the game and git gud

Vapirko

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Valve wrote: »

Is this actually a serious post?
This can't be right?

ESO has a 1 second global cooldown between skill casts.
After you use a skill, you can't use another skill no matter if you block cancelled the animation until another second has passed.

It's actually very serious, with that 1 second cool down you are talking about, it should take 5-6 seconds to kill someone decent in PvP, enough time to swap bars and heal or go into mist form, fight back, etc. But it happens in BG's all the time, damage from the same player (mostly nb). One second you're full life going to the fight and then 5+ skills on you out of nowhere and you're dead. There are instances where I fight 4 players when I'm alone and I have enough time to purge + mistform and get out of there in time, other times dead in one second.

NB skills are notorious for causing lag. Incap lags me it and causes a health dysenc constantly. The worst part is those scummy stealthers actually think skill had something to do with it.

kadar

Vapirko wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Valve wrote: »

Is this actually a serious post?
This can't be right?

ESO has a 1 second global cooldown between skill casts.
After you use a skill, you can't use another skill no matter if you block cancelled the animation until another second has passed.

It's actually very serious, with that 1 second cool down you are talking about, it should take 5-6 seconds to kill someone decent in PvP, enough time to swap bars and heal or go into mist form, fight back, etc. But it happens in BG's all the time, damage from the same player (mostly nb). One second you're full life going to the fight and then 5+ skills on you out of nowhere and you're dead. There are instances where I fight 4 players when I'm alone and I have enough time to purge + mistform and get out of there in time, other times dead in one second.

NB skills are notorious for causing lag. Incap lags me it and causes a health dysenc constantly. The worst part is those scummy stealthers actually think skill had something to do with it.

You heard it here folks, Nightblades cause lag...

he's not wrong. I used to crash whole groups of people with Soul Tether, myself included. That ones fixed though lol.

[Edit to remove profanity]

SugaComa

jcm2606 wrote: »

Please just let this horse die already. Stop resurrecting it a million times over, only to be proven time and time and time again that you are wrong.

No. Animation cancelling does not allow multiple skills to be used within 1 second. The most you can do within a single second is use multiple distinct actions, ie a skill, a light/heavy attack, block, bash, etc. LA -> Skill -> Bash within a single GCD is valid, LA -> Skill -> Skill -> Bash is not.

No amount of animation cancelling can bypass the GCD. If you're dying to a player within less than 5 or 6 seconds, you are either dying to a lot of upfront burst damage, or you are being shredded by multiple dot's over that 5 or 6 seconds. You can see this any time you look at a combat log from an addon like Combat Metrics. Each actual skill is only being cast about every second or so, but between each skill cast dot's and delayed components are ticking away automatically.

I even pointed this out in another thread, where the OP tried posting their combat log to prove that animation cancelling was killing him, when in fact what was killing him was 5+ dot's, 1 of which was oblivion damage that cannot be mitigated (you can guess as to which set this came from). What killed him ultimately was him not countering those dot's, as he was actually on a Nightblade, and so could have used Cloak to defend himself, as any damage is hardcoded to miss when you are cloaked. All he had to do was hit Cloak a few times to ease some of the pressure off, and either get some healing going or purge the dot's, and he would have been good.

If you are dying to upfront burst damage, really the only way to counter that is to see it coming and get ready for it. Most builds that rely on burst, namely Nightblade's, actually cannot survive if that burst fails. A lot of top tier Magicka Nightblade's in fact have a rule, where if they don't think they can burst you down within 4 or 5 seconds, they won't even try taking you, because they know you'll likely win.

And finally, as I explained in another thread related to animation cancelling, if it was removed I can guarantee you would want it added back immediately. Any sort of defensive action, namely block and dodge roll, outright rely on animation cancelling to be done effectively.

Because Zenimax elected to have combat be active in ESO, you must actively block and dodge incoming attacks, rather than the game having it do it automatically based on a number. In order to do so, you actually have to be able to block or dodge when necessary. You cannot be stuck in some long animation, else you will die. That is why they implemented the priority system, where certain actions follow a hierarchy (dodge > block > bar swap > skill > light/heavy attack), and when you use a higher priority action, it will take precedence over any lower priority actions you are currently performing.

This is why animation cancelling is a thing in the first place, because blocking is a higher priority action, and so cancels your skill (and by extension your skill's animation). Even though it is called animation cancelling, you aren't actually cancelling the animation, but the whole action in itself. You can see this if you cancel a channeled skill or a skill with a cast time too quickly, the skill will be cancelled outright.

While I agree with what your saying I think the biggest problem is damage calculation

Dame is calculated at the point the animation is set in motion and not the point of contact of the skill example meteor

Often you die before it hits, it's shows on death recap cos the damage was calculated before it landed

Now the same happens with other skills but not as noticeable .

Now channeled skills like lightening staff heavy attack start damage at the begining if the mination and "wind up" cancelling at any point with a block doesn't cancel the damage that begun but does reduce the damage potential it had

Direct damage skill don't have that problem

Example raise swords to do a tornado I block cos I'm gonna take damage because the animation started the damage was calculated , move the damage calculation to the end of the animation and you reduce DPS as direct damage would no longer register unless it completed the animation which for PvP it should definitely be s thing

The time to kill due to animation cancelling is too quick stopping players being able to react to it .... Meaning fights aren't about two players pressuring each other till a mistake is made which how good fights should be

It's about which one can set up a rotation of burst damage that can hit all at once with out the opponent having any kind of counter which is why 90% of kills from sorcs and nightblades are done to players facing away from them

BigBragg

Right they will just rework the entire combat system, that they officially embraced in 2015, most players enjoy, and the entire game is balanced around all to appease a vocal minority. Seems legit.

Keep beating that dead horse and spamming the forums, which is against the rules if I am not mistaken.

Malacthulhu

They are nblock blem if block see block mation.

Lylith

Waffennacht wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Most of the time "five skills in 1 second" ends up being 2 dot ticks, light attack, dizzying swing and executioner. Normally landed over two seconds as well but people like to exaggerate

Lethal Arrow has a 1.1 second cast time.

I just got hit by five in a very short time period from the same guy.

Lag? Perhaps.

But that same guy does this same thing time and time and time and time and time again.

I’m going to say not lag.

Lethal arrow has a Health desync Bug and Animation Bug

It was cast 5 times, it's just that you didn't get to see any of it or have an opportunity to react

https://youtu.be/CQVaYYdH0y8

you'll die before you hear it.

it's a feature.

Shadowmaster

Valve wrote: »

Is this actually a serious post?
This can't be right?

ESO has a 1 second global cooldown between skill casts.
After you use a skill, you can't use another skill no matter if you block cancelled the animation until another second has passed.

this is 100% not true just pointing out you are 100% wrong.

easy test, setup your macro with a delay and watch how many you can get in

not saying they dont have a gcd, just saying its not 1s

Shadowmaster

a lot of people die to stuff that isnt macros...

but a lot of people act like macros dont exist and cant do a lot of things they can

this entire thread is chock full of misinfo on both sides

Cously

It's a bug. They can't fix it. It's then a feature. Get over it. I hate it too but been 4 years.

kadar

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Valve wrote: »

Is this actually a serious post?
This can't be right?

ESO has a 1 second global cooldown between skill casts.
After you use a skill, you can't use another skill no matter if you block cancelled the animation until another second has passed.

this is 100% not true just pointing out you are 100% wrong.

easy test, setup your macro with a delay and watch how many you can get in

not saying they dont have a gcd, just saying its not 1s

You are correct it is 0.9 seconds...

pod88kk

To gimp console players even further

Before you start jumping down my throat I know we can anicancel too by blocking