Animation cancelling and you! (Thread 99999)

aetherial_heavenn

My only problem with the emphasis on LA weaving and ani cancelling is my ping. Australians and Japanese players have it rough. Ani cancelling when you average 360 ping is a lottery. Buggy cc breaks and buggy snipe are exponentially worse. It's not all a l2p issue. More a learn to build issue. I just don't rely on them and i use a heavy attack rotation.

But that means i will never ever be top flight dps. Not that i want to be. I main healers. But others with high latency do want to be competitive dps. So there's that to consider.

jcm2606

Lysette wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Please just let this horse die already. Stop resurrecting it a million times over, only to be proven time and time and time again that you are wrong.

No. Animation cancelling does not allow multiple skills to be used within 1 second. The most you can do within a single second is use multiple distinct actions, ie a skill, a light/heavy attack, block, bash, etc. LA -> Skill -> Bash within a single GCD is valid, LA -> Skill -> Skill -> Bash is not.

No amount of animation cancelling can bypass the GCD. If you're dying to a player within less than 5 or 6 seconds, you are either dying to a lot of upfront burst damage, or you are being shredded by multiple dot's over that 5 or 6 seconds. You can see this any time you look at a combat log from an addon like Combat Metrics. Each actual skill is only being cast about every second or so, but between each skill cast dot's and delayed components are ticking away automatically.

I even pointed this out in another thread, where the OP tried posting their combat log to prove that animation cancelling was killing him, when in fact what was killing him was 5+ dot's, 1 of which was oblivion damage that cannot be mitigated (you can guess as to which set this came from). What killed him ultimately was him not countering those dot's, as he was actually on a Nightblade, and so could have used Cloak to defend himself, as any damage is hardcoded to miss when you are cloaked. All he had to do was hit Cloak a few times to ease some of the pressure off, and either get some healing going or purge the dot's, and he would have been good.

If you are dying to upfront burst damage, really the only way to counter that is to see it coming and get ready for it. Most builds that rely on burst, namely Nightblade's, actually cannot survive if that burst fails. A lot of top tier Magicka Nightblade's in fact have a rule, where if they don't think they can burst you down within 4 or 5 seconds, they won't even try taking you, because they know you'll likely win.

And finally, as I explained in another thread related to animation cancelling, if it was removed I can guarantee you would want it added back immediately. Any sort of defensive action, namely block and dodge roll, outright rely on animation cancelling to be done effectively.

Because Zenimax elected to have combat be active in ESO, you must actively block and dodge incoming attacks, rather than the game having it do it automatically based on a number. In order to do so, you actually have to be able to block or dodge when necessary. You cannot be stuck in some long animation, else you will die. That is why they implemented the priority system, where certain actions follow a hierarchy (dodge > block > bar swap > skill > light/heavy attack), and when you use a higher priority action, it will take precedence over any lower priority actions you are currently performing.

This is why animation cancelling is a thing in the first place, because blocking is a higher priority action, and so cancels your skill (and by extension your skill's animation). Even though it is called animation cancelling, you aren't actually cancelling the animation, but the whole action in itself. You can see this if you cancel a channeled skill or a skill with a cast time too quickly, the skill will be cancelled outright.

You didn't understand the whole point of this threads and I pointed to you about this a million times.
And you continue talking with your imagined opponent about his demand to remove AC completely and left everything else as is.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, which I really shouldn't be doing since you don't even understand why AC is so important to begin with, what would you propose to "fix" it? You can't just remove the priority system, for the reasons I just explained. You can't speed animations up because that'll look super awkward, even more awkward than what we have now -- and people already complain about how bad ESO's combat animations are, it'll be far worse if you speed the animations up. Removing the animations is a nonsensical suggestion, I know that you know that you're just exaggerating to prove your own flawed point. You can't have the damage magically disappear, because the damage doesn't happen at the end of the animation -- what if I killed the enemy before the animation completed, should they just pop back to life?

Short of moving away from the active combat system the game currently has, which I and many other players love about the game, there is no alternative solution. And there shouldn't even be one. Contrary to what you guys believe, animation cancelling is not a broken feature (which it is a feature, as I've explained numerous times now).

Intentional animation cancelling is not necessary to pull good DPS in PVE. Block/bash cancelling is a relic of the past, bar swap cancelling is more out of convenience, and weaving, while it does help, isn't necessary since there are builds that can perform well without any weaving. Pet sorcs have been using heavy attack builds for a long time now, and stamDK's have also ran heavy attack builds since Morrowind nerfed sustain. So you don't need to animation cancel to pull good DPS.

And, as I've pointed out, twice now, animation cancelling is not what killed you. What killed you was the 5+ dot's ticking against you, one of which was Sloads. You could have mitigated all of that with Cloak. Outside of what killed you, though, I tested myself, and you can absolutely see key parts of skill animations, even when they're bash cancelled. The slash effect of DK's Venomous Claw is still visible, and the spark effect of that one snb ability is still visible, too. And, as I said, what likely killed the OP was several dot's ticking against him, or a lot of upfront burst damage. Which, as I explained, it's actually common for burst damage to kill you in under 5 seconds. Magicka Nightblade's live by the 4-5 second rule, as I explained.

Stop ragging on a feature that makes the game easier to play for everybody, while also increasing the skill ceiling, making the game more interesting for us veteran players. If you had guys had your way, you would absolutely ruin the game for everybody.

notyuu wrote: »

proposed idea: match the animation speed on all attacks where AC can be applied, to the actual damage itself.. yes, i'll make them faster to play, but it'll also in essence, make it so that AC goes from a thing, to fundamentally pointless

The damage is applied basically immediately after the attack connects. Cutting the animation off there will make combat look and feel much clunkier than it supposedly is currently.

Yeah, it is definitely immediate - I get a level up before I even see the effect of the last attack - this can just happen this way, if the damage is immediately applied and independent from the animation.

Quickly just testing against a target dummy, the damage is dealt immediately upon the attack connecting. Very important distinction there, lol. The attack connecting is different between actions/skills, but it isn't immediately upon using the skill. Some skills do deal the damage a bit early, for instance Take Flight seems to deal the damage in the air, not when you actually strike the enemy or hit the ground. Was testing on a stamDK, by the way.

jcm2606

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

My only problem with the emphasis on LA weaving and ani cancelling is my ping. Australians and Japanese players have it rough. Ani cancelling when you average 360 ping is a lottery. Buggy cc breaks and buggy snipe are exponentially worse. It's not all a l2p issue. More a learn to build issue. I just don't rely on them and i use a heavy attack rotation.

But that means i will never ever be top flight dps. Not that i want to be. I main healers. But others with high latency do want to be competitive dps. So there's that to consider.

As a fellow Australian, I can animation cancel comfortably at 300-350 ping. Even better at 250-300 when my internet is behaving itself. It's all about finding the speed that works for you and your connection. I've learned at 300-350, so I animation cancel a bit slower than I must to avoid my inputs being ignored.

MaleAmazon

Quickly just testing against a target dummy, the damage is dealt immediately upon the attack connecting. Very important distinction there, lol.

It varies in funny ways though. I had a NB build with storm master where I got a guaranteed crit hit on the first strike since the heavy bow attack has a short flight time and thus the cloak registered before the heavy attack connected. OTOH other skills don´t register right away. It can be fun to use foundry tactical combat.. one hilarious (in my view ) skill to do it with is ambush which registers before snipe which gives you some Legolas combat skills... I think templar javelin does too; the damage is applied almost before the animation starts.

Hulda

This game without animation cancelling would be really boring almost as "turn based" combat. Especially with just 10 skills w/o cooldows, there would be no skill gap anywhere, gear is easy to get so everyone will have same stats, dmg etc. Personally I wouldnt play it without animation cancelling. And what you're describing sounds more like lag than ani cancelling.

Micah_Bayer

notyuu wrote: »

proposed idea: match the animation speed on all attacks where AC can be applied, to the actual damage itself.. yes, i'll make them faster to play, but it'll also in essence, make it so that AC goes from a thing, to fundamentally pointless

Then that would hand players the skill other players worked hard to achieve. Just learn the basic concept of block with an instant cast ability.

CeeJonesy

animation canceling keeps the game quick paced and adds a little bit of a learning curve. without it the game would be boring and combat would be a lot slower than it is.

jcm2606

@SilverWF Just read your other thread, again, and all I see is you saying that animation cancelling is a broken mechanic, and heavily implying that you want it "fixed" in some way. Want examples?

Nah, it sounds as a bad excuse of impossibility to fix it.
"we want people to be doing it" - doing what? Macro using?
Also, it is going against any logic: if something can be interrupted by block (basically: pressing a button), why it can not be interrupted by another button press?

In response to Wrobel stating that animation cancelling is intended, and they want people to be doing it more often.

And, if ZOS are happy with it - why skill animations are exists here at all?

Not even going to comment on this one...

If it is intended - why animations are exists here at all?
And another question: does it possible for LA to override GCD with animation cancelling and without it?

Your second question just goes to show how little you know on the topic, and yet you are so incredibly vocal with your whining.

If you are not cancelling animation, you wouldn't be able to cast LA while GCD, because most of skills has animation time equals or even more than GCD.
And vice versa: with animation cancel you would be able to cast LA while GCD, and after it ends you would able to cast another skill without wasting your time on LA
It increases DPS drastically, especially in the new patch, where damage of all LA increased by 30%!

And, as it were already said, it gives a huge advantage for all macro users. And even if it breaks EULA, how anyone can catch me if my macro inside of my mouse - in the hardware, not even software?
So please, stop this trashtalking about l2p - you don't know me, I don't know you. And I'm not talking about your persons.

I'm only talking about obvious [snip] it must be cancelled by everything or by nothing. Or, as it were suggested too, cancel not only animation, but skill effect too.

And nobody can answer on simple question: If it is intended - why animations are exists here at all?

Quickly, I do think the changes to light attacks with Summerset weren't good. Light attacks are a little too strong now, but at the same time, it isn't "light attack weave or go home". Heavy attack builds are perfectly viable for all content leading up to vet trials, which is where the vast majority of the player base will spend their time in. And heavy attack builds are either very easy in terms of weaving, or don't even require weaving at all. Don't like weaving? Run a pet sorc or a stamDK.

As said many times, you cannot bypass the GCD. Light/heavy attacks, blocking, bashing and dodging are on their own cooldowns separate to the GCD, which is a thing to allow you to use these actions when necessary. Zenimax wasn't stupid when designing this system.

And as I've explained several times, macroing in ESO is pointless because of the dynamic nature of the game. It will actually put you at a disadvantage when using macros. Watch any PVP stream, you'll see why macros are pointless in PVP. Watch any runs of vet trials, you'll see why they're pointless in vet trials. Watch any runs of vet DLC dungeons, you'll see why their pointless in vet DLC dungeons. Watch any runs of decently difficult base game vet dungeons. Notice a trend?

Why the skill animations are exist in the game at all then?

Nor this one...

Your example was about healer with cancel casting.
But did I said REMOVE it? Not, let it will be interruptable by everything (2nd option). And that healer would still be able to interrupt his casting.

Don't make a forum post if you can't read and understand.

Everyone who voted against changes are macrousers, who didn't want to loose their advantage from usual players.

Assuming we're thinking of the same definition of "interruptable", ie bashing to interrupt, that is only on certain abilities as a form of counterplay, namely abilities with a cast time such as Dark Deal or Channeled Acceleration, and I believe Dark Flare. Even without animation cancelling, you cannot interrupt uninterruptable abilities because they are an instant cast. There are other forms of counterplay, learn them.

If we aren't thinking of the same definition of "interruptable", then I don't know what definition you use.

And that last bit really sums it all up. "Everyone who disagrees with me uses macros and want to continue cheating!!!" No, we don't want you to screw up a game we love. Don't like the combat system? Go find another game.

Oh, and by the way, your second poll option is literally "remove everything except weaving, and allow abilities to cut the animations off of other abilities". Unless you worded that really poorly, which I kind of hope you did, yes, you are advocating the removal of literally the entire point of animation cancelling.

That kind of game design is bad, every adult man with brain understand it.

So designing a game that requires the player to actively participate in combat, rather than raising a block/dodge chance stat that automatically performs these actions, is bad game design? Okay.

In PVE nothing, literally nothing scary would happened
In PVP... well, with their 'perfect' netcode, it is dead already.

In response to somebody pointing out the exact same thing I have been stating from the start: animation cancelling gets removed, the combat system will become so clunky that it will ruin the game for everybody. And yet you continue to ignore me, not even acknowledging this point. Either you are incredibly ignorant on the importance of animation cancelling, or you know how important it is but simply don't care.

Let's be honest, most (if not all) of 'insta' skills animations are dull and dumb - their speed must be increased drastically.

What is that going to achieve? Your entire renegade is against people apparently having an unfair advantage by animation cancelling, allowing them to cast abilities faster than the animation should allow. Speeding the animation up to that point literally changes nothing.

So allow to cancel animations with anything else - is it so hard to read it in the 1st post?

"Anything else."

What "else" is there?


And it just goes on, and on, and on. That's only up to the 4th page, of 9.

So, let me reiterate. If you don't want it "fixed", why in the hell are you whining about it so much? You don't like it, I do. It isn't in any way affecting you, as I explained in your other thread, but clearly you're ignoring my messages to push your agenda. Move on, stop whining, it isn't being "fixed", and none of your suggestions will amount to anything if implemented.

End of.

EDIT: Added even more quotes and added more commentary on the hilarity of your other thread.

RedRook

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Valve wrote: »

Is this actually a serious post?
This can't be right?

ESO has a 1 second global cooldown between skill casts.
After you use a skill, you can't use another skill no matter if you block cancelled the animation until another second has passed.

It's actually very serious, with that 1 second cool down you are talking about, it should take 5-6 seconds to kill someone decent in PvP, enough time to swap bars and heal or go into mist form, fight back, etc. But it happens in BG's all the time, damage from the same player (mostly nb). One second you're full life going to the fight and then 5+ skills on you out of nowhere and you're dead. There are instances where I fight 4 players when I'm alone and I have enough time to purge + mistform and get out of there in time, other times dead in one second.

That would only be true if all abilities hit you in exactly the same way. Just because they all hit you at once definitely doesn't mean they were all cast in the second before that. Meteor is a great example of this: it takes so long for a meteor to actually drop on you, that sorc gets another GCD and can hit you with something else before it gets there. So for you the runecage and meteor and implosion tick happen all at once, boom you're dead, but for him that was several regular casts just as if he'd spammed you with force pulse three times in a row instead.

And then there's whatever lag spikes you have going on in any particular engagement.

It's especially annoying with sorcs and NBs because you have a VERY small window of reaction time, and if they lined it up properly and you don't have enough passive defense, have a nice nap. But I'm not sure how we got to this from light attack weaves being macroed or not?

Shardaxx

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

jcm2606

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

It isn't possible. There is a global cooldown (GCD) in place that restricts you to a single skill cast every 0.9 seconds. You can use actions off of the GCD within that 0.9 seconds, such as light/heavy attacks, bash, block, roll dodge, bar swap, and with that you can chain multiple actions together, usually LA -> Skill or LA -> Skill -> Bash, but you cannot do LA -> Skill -> Skill -> Bash. No amount of animation cancelling will allow you to bypass the GCD.

The attacks aren't cancelled before they land. The attacks land incredibly quickly, so quick that it looks like the damage goes through instantly. As I explained earlier in the thread, I recorded a video of myself attacking a target dummy, and the damage is dealt immediately when the attack connects. Not before or after. The only part of the animation that is cut off is the "recovery" portion, the tail portion following the attack landing. If you cancel the animation before the attack lands, it is actually cancelled completely, which is why you can completely cancel channeled abilities or abilities with a cast time.

Aurielle

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

Stop spreading misinformation. It is impossible for your friend to do what you are describing. There is a global cooldown for skills. You literally cannot activate more than one skill in less than a second. What people CAN do is set up burst attacks by activating delayed release skills (e.g. Warden shalks) and then landing light attack + instant skill at the precise moment the delayed skills fire off. If your proc sets proc at the same time? Even better. That’s related to player skill and clever burst rotations, however — not animation cancelling that supposedly bypasses the GCD.

Also, lag and health desync issues can occasionally add to the illusion that players are able to spam abilities in a second.

LadyNalcarya

Aurielle wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

Stop spreading misinformation. It is impossible for your friend to do what you are describing. There is a global cooldown for skills. You literally cannot activate more than one skill in less than a second. What people CAN do is set up burst attacks by activating delayed release skills (e.g. Warden shalks) and then landing light attack + instant skill at the precise moment the delayed skills fire off. If your proc sets proc at the same time? Even better. That’s related to player skill and clever burst rotations, however — not animation cancelling that supposedly bypasses the GCD.

Also, lag and health desync issues can occasionally add to the illusion that players are able to spam abilities in a second.

This.
It's possible to prepare a burst combo, but it has nothing to do with cancelling skills and it doesnt bypass the global cooldown. For example, a nightblade might activate spectral bow and then use it with incap to burst their target. A sorc can use curse and then cc an enemy just before it explodes and shoot a crystal fragment or something.
But well, some people claim that dots hitting them at the same time must be macroed...

MLGProPlayer

You can't animation cancel anymore like that OP. They changed it like 2 years ago...

The only commonly used animation cancelling right now is light attack cancelling, which is just cancelling the light attack animation with an ability.

LadyNalcarya

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You can't animation cancel anymore like that OP. They changed it like 2 years ago...

The only conmobly used animation cancelling right now is light attack cancelling.

Well, people just like fearmongering, so they keep reposting that old macro video from 2014 as a proof that animation cancelling is so op...

Shardaxx

Aurielle wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

Stop spreading misinformation. It is impossible for your friend to do what you are describing. There is a global cooldown for skills. You literally cannot activate more than one skill in less than a second. What people CAN do is set up burst attacks by activating delayed release skills (e.g. Warden shalks) and then landing light attack + instant skill at the precise moment the delayed skills fire off. If your proc sets proc at the same time? Even better. That’s related to player skill and clever burst rotations, however — not animation cancelling that supposedly bypasses the GCD.

Also, lag and health desync issues can occasionally add to the illusion that players are able to spam abilities in a second.

It's not misinfo, its how he always plays and he showed me about a month ago.There was no lag in our fights, we both have a good connection and it was at his house. You guys saying this isn't a thing anymore are just plain wrong.

LiquidPony

Shardaxx wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

Stop spreading misinformation. It is impossible for your friend to do what you are describing. There is a global cooldown for skills. You literally cannot activate more than one skill in less than a second. What people CAN do is set up burst attacks by activating delayed release skills (e.g. Warden shalks) and then landing light attack + instant skill at the precise moment the delayed skills fire off. If your proc sets proc at the same time? Even better. That’s related to player skill and clever burst rotations, however — not animation cancelling that supposedly bypasses the GCD.

Also, lag and health desync issues can occasionally add to the illusion that players are able to spam abilities in a second.

It's not misinfo, its how he always plays and he showed me about a month ago.There was no lag in our fights, we both have a good connection and it was at his house. You guys saying this isn't a thing anymore are just plain wrong.

@Shardaxx

Prove it, then.

Ampnode

Saddening day on the forums indeed.

LadyNalcarya

LiquidPony wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

Stop spreading misinformation. It is impossible for your friend to do what you are describing. There is a global cooldown for skills. You literally cannot activate more than one skill in less than a second. What people CAN do is set up burst attacks by activating delayed release skills (e.g. Warden shalks) and then landing light attack + instant skill at the precise moment the delayed skills fire off. If your proc sets proc at the same time? Even better. That’s related to player skill and clever burst rotations, however — not animation cancelling that supposedly bypasses the GCD.

Also, lag and health desync issues can occasionally add to the illusion that players are able to spam abilities in a second.

It's not misinfo, its how he always plays and he showed me about a month ago.There was no lag in our fights, we both have a good connection and it was at his house. You guys saying this isn't a thing anymore are just plain wrong.

@Shardaxx

Prove it, then.

This. I would like to see a non-2014 video that shows a ton of skills per second.

Waffennacht

Shardaxx wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

Stop spreading misinformation. It is impossible for your friend to do what you are describing. There is a global cooldown for skills. You literally cannot activate more than one skill in less than a second. What people CAN do is set up burst attacks by activating delayed release skills (e.g. Warden shalks) and then landing light attack + instant skill at the precise moment the delayed skills fire off. If your proc sets proc at the same time? Even better. That’s related to player skill and clever burst rotations, however — not animation cancelling that supposedly bypasses the GCD.

Also, lag and health desync issues can occasionally add to the illusion that players are able to spam abilities in a second.

It's not misinfo, its how he always plays and he showed me about a month ago.There was no lag in our fights, we both have a good connection and it was at his house. You guys saying this isn't a thing anymore are just plain wrong.

Well tapping block is called block cast and isn't any faster than a weave, does cut the animation down and is good for defense.

Also remember abilities have a travel time.

So if I go: Dark Flare (or lethal arrow) block cancel (to hide the animation) then instant ability, then weave a LA, - that's 3 abilities with no animation that'll land at practically the same time.

Now let's take this very simple example and add an enchantment, and then say elemental weapon.

So Flare, Pulse, LA, Weapon will have a recap of : LA, Enchantment, Elemental, Flare, Pulse - or 5 sources of damage all within one moment.

Again we could have a bit more complex rotation, but sticking with this.

Add in a proc set; 6 sources on a recap 1 sec (appears)

Ampnode

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

Stop spreading misinformation. It is impossible for your friend to do what you are describing. There is a global cooldown for skills. You literally cannot activate more than one skill in less than a second. What people CAN do is set up burst attacks by activating delayed release skills (e.g. Warden shalks) and then landing light attack + instant skill at the precise moment the delayed skills fire off. If your proc sets proc at the same time? Even better. That’s related to player skill and clever burst rotations, however — not animation cancelling that supposedly bypasses the GCD.

Also, lag and health desync issues can occasionally add to the illusion that players are able to spam abilities in a second.

It's not misinfo, its how he always plays and he showed me about a month ago.There was no lag in our fights, we both have a good connection and it was at his house. You guys saying this isn't a thing anymore are just plain wrong.

@Shardaxx

Prove it, then.

This. I would like to see a non-2014 video that shows a ton of skills per second.

You won't find it, because people like this think they're perfect and make no mistakes and will come up with anything to make themselves believe that them losing wasn't their fault. Years of PvP and have never had a situation where somebody was bypassing the server global cooldown for skills, which is still not possible. Quite the coincidence how only the macro accusers run into this, right?

Joy_Division

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Why are there animations if they can be cancelled? This is ridiculous and very easy to exploit and I'm going to tell you how.

You don't need a super macro for it or anything, you cancel animation by blocking, pressing your right mouse button or swapping weapons. But why go to all that trouble when you can do it in a very simple way?

I keep wondering how some people can get 5+attacks in under 1 second which is too much if you ask me and I think I got it figured out.

The way this works (I think) is that people that abuse the system are using a simple macro like this :

Skill 1 "Javelin" , macro key 1 to do : 1+right click
Skill 2 "Vampire Bane" , macro key 2 to do : 2+right click
etc

If you press right click, just tap it, you will notice that the block animation is very short compared to the skill animation itself so basically all they do is smash 3 buttons and perform 6 actions in the time it takes to perform just 1.

How will ZOS ever fix this? They won't because there are too many leet players and streamers (God's of ZOS) that do the same thing. They way to go here would be that during casting, like channeled casting, if you block before the animation is done the skill is cancelled. Or they could easy make it so that while casting you can't block or swap weapons.

That's how I see a fair playing field, of course this concerns PvP.

I'm not saying this because somebody killed me and I'm angry, I do very well in BG's, 90% of the time I'm nr 1 or 2 in my team. I'm saying it because I know people who quit because of this, they like the pvp idea and how it flows but when it comes to ESO pvp it's something else. You don't need in game skill that much as long as you can macro or mash the keyboard like a pro.

I see a lot of new level 50 players that can't hold a torch against the animation cancelling guys. I myself often die to them, that's why instead of having a melee build that's going in for the kill I prefer a ranged build with sustain and defense that does mediocre damage.

I know this will get brushed to the side but there's my two cents about it.

The old "I'm not arguing this for me, but for all the other poor folks I'll take it upon myself to represent" line.

I do not believe for one second 90% of the time you are first of second on your team. Bad players who finish 3rd and 4th make excuses, say things are not fair, and will blame macros for dying rather than trying to understand what a global cooldown is.

You ever think the new level 50 players can't hold a torch because they are missing a huge portion of power locked in the champion system, their gear is absolutely terrible, and they do not have 4+ years of experience playing the game?

Aurielle

Shardaxx wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

Stop spreading misinformation. It is impossible for your friend to do what you are describing. There is a global cooldown for skills. You literally cannot activate more than one skill in less than a second. What people CAN do is set up burst attacks by activating delayed release skills (e.g. Warden shalks) and then landing light attack + instant skill at the precise moment the delayed skills fire off. If your proc sets proc at the same time? Even better. That’s related to player skill and clever burst rotations, however — not animation cancelling that supposedly bypasses the GCD.

Also, lag and health desync issues can occasionally add to the illusion that players are able to spam abilities in a second.

It's not misinfo, its how he always plays and he showed me about a month ago.There was no lag in our fights, we both have a good connection and it was at his house. You guys saying this isn't a thing anymore are just plain wrong.

Not buying it. Prove it. I can animation perfectly, and I know for a FACT that I can’t fire off multiple skills in less than a second.

kadar

@DanielWinterborn

In all seriousness though, understand how Animation Priority works: Light/Heavy Attack < Ability < Bash/Block/Swap/Roll. Then understand how the GCD works.

If after doing the above, and you still want to get an accurate picture of what is happening to you, download the Combat Metrix addon and run it in Cyro (rip your performance). At least then you can pull it up and have proof that the people "exploiting" you are just playing the game and playing it well.

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1360-CombatMetrics.html

kadar

Shardaxx wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

Stop spreading misinformation. It is impossible for your friend to do what you are describing. There is a global cooldown for skills. You literally cannot activate more than one skill in less than a second. What people CAN do is set up burst attacks by activating delayed release skills (e.g. Warden shalks) and then landing light attack + instant skill at the precise moment the delayed skills fire off. If your proc sets proc at the same time? Even better. That’s related to player skill and clever burst rotations, however — not animation cancelling that supposedly bypasses the GCD.

Also, lag and health desync issues can occasionally add to the illusion that players are able to spam abilities in a second.

It's not misinfo, its how he always plays and he showed me about a month ago.There was no lag in our fights, we both have a good connection and it was at his house. You guys saying this isn't a thing anymore are just plain wrong.

You're on PS4 EU so I doubt anyone here can confirm. Just in case what's his character name? If he's really such a esogod then someone here should recognize it, yea?

Most likely scenario: your friend is better than you and is yanking your chain.

just for kicks, please define 4 or 5 attacks. Like which ones exactly occur in less than 1.0 seconds?

He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second.

LadyNalcarya

The_Outsider wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

I'm not sure why skills have long animations when you can cancel them and the damage still lands.

I dueled for fun with a friend who is an absolute master of animation cancelling, he beat me 19/20 times, and we chatted about how he uses feather touches on block between every move so they all land within a very short space of time. It's real, it works, and its a gankers dream. I try to do it but I'm not nearly so good at it as him. He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second. Kudos to him for mastering it so well, but it really shouldn't be possible, it just makes no sense. If you cancel an attack before it completes, the damage shouldn't land, that's pretty obvious and yet the game doesn't work that way.

Stop spreading misinformation. It is impossible for your friend to do what you are describing. There is a global cooldown for skills. You literally cannot activate more than one skill in less than a second. What people CAN do is set up burst attacks by activating delayed release skills (e.g. Warden shalks) and then landing light attack + instant skill at the precise moment the delayed skills fire off. If your proc sets proc at the same time? Even better. That’s related to player skill and clever burst rotations, however — not animation cancelling that supposedly bypasses the GCD.

Also, lag and health desync issues can occasionally add to the illusion that players are able to spam abilities in a second.

It's not misinfo, its how he always plays and he showed me about a month ago.There was no lag in our fights, we both have a good connection and it was at his house. You guys saying this isn't a thing anymore are just plain wrong.

You're on PS4 EU so I doubt anyone here can confirm. Just in case what's his character name? If he's really such a esogod then someone here should recognize it, yea?

Most likely scenario: your friend is better than you and is yanking your chain.

just for kicks, please define 4 or 5 attacks. Like which ones exactly occur in less than 1.0 seconds?

He pops out of stealth, delivers 4 or 5 attacks, and disappears again, within less than a second.

Well, I guess that "1 second" is actually more like 3-5 seconds and "4-5 attacks" include monster set procs, glyphs/poisons and assassin's will.

exeeter702

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Why are there animations if they can be cancelled? This is ridiculous and very easy to exploit and I'm going to tell you how.

You don't need a super macro for it or anything, you cancel animation by blocking, pressing your right mouse button or swapping weapons. But why go to all that trouble when you can do it in a very simple way?

I keep wondering how some people can get 5+attacks in under 1 second which is too much if you ask me and I think I got it figured out.

The way this works (I think) is that people that abuse the system are using a simple macro like this :

Skill 1 "Javelin" , macro key 1 to do : 1+right click
Skill 2 "Vampire Bane" , macro key 2 to do : 2+right click
etc

If you press right click, just tap it, you will notice that the block animation is very short compared to the skill animation itself so basically all they do is smash 3 buttons and perform 6 actions in the time it takes to perform just 1.

How will ZOS ever fix this? They won't because there are too many leet players and streamers (God's of ZOS) that do the same thing. They way to go here would be that during casting, like channeled casting, if you block before the animation is done the skill is cancelled. Or they could easy make it so that while casting you can't block or swap weapons.

That's how I see a fair playing field, of course this concerns PvP.

I'm not saying this because somebody killed me and I'm angry, I do very well in BG's, 90% of the time I'm nr 1 or 2 in my team. I'm saying it because I know people who quit because of this, they like the pvp idea and how it flows but when it comes to ESO pvp it's something else. You don't need in game skill that much as long as you can macro or mash the keyboard like a pro.

I see a lot of new level 50 players that can't hold a torch against the animation cancelling guys. I myself often die to them, that's why instead of having a melee build that's going in for the kill I prefer a ranged build with sustain and defense that does mediocre damage.

I know this will get brushed to the side but there's my two cents about it.

You positively do not what you are talking about. Sorry.

LadyNalcarya

SilverWF wrote: »

Just a short video of how stupid it looks like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s45YAFMNIpA

I hope you do realize that every extra crit (or lack of thereof) will completely change your results?
You're using low health, low resists dummy and 10 second parses. That's not how you compare rotations.

SilverWF

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Just a short video of how stupid it looks like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s45YAFMNIpA

I hope you do realize that every extra crit (or lack of thereof) will completely change your results?
You're using low health, low resists dummy and 10 second parses. That's not how you compare rotations.

I hope you do realize that it wasn't a rotation comparison, right?

LadyNalcarya

SilverWF wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Just a short video of how stupid it looks like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s45YAFMNIpA

I hope you do realize that every extra crit (or lack of thereof) will completely change your results?
You're using low health, low resists dummy and 10 second parses. That's not how you compare rotations.

I hope you do realize that it wasn't a rotation comparison, right?

Well it seems that you're trying to prove that you would do more damage while trying to cancel skill animations? But you werent able to shoot more than one skill per second anyway, and dps difference in a 10 seconds parse is to be expected.. Statistical errors, you know.