What is P2W (pay to win)
-
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭@Gnozo
You're right at jewellery traits, something I never wrote because I know this already but since you made it sound like non dlc players can't get asylum weapons, when a non dlc player can still get asylum weapons during eso+ free weeks I assumed you didn't know.
Also its jewellery or jewelry depending if you want to use UK or US spelling, didn't mention it the first time incase it was a typo but you did it again so thought I'd let you know.
I still stand by my point that anyone calling dlc p2w is dumb
Edited to remove quotes because phone quoted 100 things
I think it was kinda clear that i was talking about juwelry Transmutation that it can only be aquired with summerset chapter. And you said that this argument is weak cause i can use Transmutation stations without summerset.
And i also saw what you wrote before your edit and you cant learn the traits in an eso plus weekend cause chapters are not part of eso plus.
Oh and sorry about spelling . I dont care if its juwelry or juwellry. Since everyone knows what i mean its not really important. Also english is not my native language.
I don't think 2.4kish (I can't remember how much each trait gives) stam instead of 2.4k hp is p2w, yes one will have more damage but the other will be tankier. The one with more health can build fury stacks safer to get their damage quicker? So your dueling point is still weak. Robust rings =/= auto win.
Yes i was wrong summerset is the only thing not included in eso+, the other chapter morrowind is
I love how you say you don't care about spelling then use "english is not my native language" to try defend yourself when everything else you're saying is fine so obviously shows you care.
It's impossible to have a civilised argument with someone so ignorant that they can't accept they are wrong + ignore they're wrong (when I mentioned asylum weapons) and make excuses for their mistakes when advice is offered (native language)
On purple each juwelry gives you 840 stamina. This is 2520 in general. Giving you more damage and more healing and even more sustain since you have a higher stampool to throw skills out.
This is a big advantage over healthy rings. Every competetive pvp player knows it.
I can give more examples. I want to run bone pirate + advancing yokeda on my stamsorc. And i want to run medium armor. For this i need to have at least 1 healthy juwelry otherwise i wont get 5 medium armor on Body. With summerset i can get full robust.
Also i cant get triune trait on for example bone pirate and yokeda. Triune is really strong because of the max magicka for my utility skills.
You can say a lot. Still Access to Juwelry Crafting makes your build stronger then the same build without juwelry crafting.
Someone running healthy jewellery can run max stam +stam regen food instead of food that gives health but i guess that's blasphemy
Most stam builds using Dubios. Giving max health, max stam and stam recovery.
Why and what food would you use on healthy juwelry?
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Recipe:+Lava+Foot+Soup-And-Saltrice
This is giving you 4500 stam and 460 recovery.
Dubios: 3200 stam, 320 stam rec and 3500 health.
Healthy juwelry + Lava Foot Soup:
4500 Stam
460 Recovery
3x 935 health = 2805 Health
Robust Juwelry + Dubios:
3200 + 3x 840 stam = 5720 stam
3500 Health
320 Stam rec
I dont know if i did math correctly tbh. Did it fast in my work break.
Wouldn't call extra 1.2k max stam extra 700hp and 140 less regen p2w
It gives you a stronger build. Ans thats my pain point.
You cant deny it. The build is stronger when you pay money. Thats the definition of p2w.
Paying real money to get access to things that make your euipment stronger than players who dont payed.
I disagree since you have to play content, if it was like you buy some crowns, enter the crown store and boom your builds automatically stronger then I'd agree game is p2w but it's not like that.
If you think this is p2w every game that has dlc is p2w since all dlc come with something nice that can't be obtained in base games, especially an mmorpg where the most common sort of dlc are new raids/area that drops new gear
I disagree with everyone who says this is p2w because there are people who buy this content and can't complete it so they paid money, wheres their W?
EDIT - it gives you less regen so it's not 100% stronger @ your first point
Ofc you need to work for it. But you need to spend money in the first step. Players without spending money would never get it.
And where is the work at learning a juwelry trait? Hit "research" on a random Ring and wait an hour? Idk research time.
If zenimax now release a Chapter where you get a weapons wich deals 10k Oblivion damage on every light attack. But to get this weapon we first need to kill one easy peasy world boss. This is not p2w cause you need to "work" for it?
I know this is overtuned example but it shows how stupid this "you still need to work for it" Argument is.
You need to earn 150 crystals, unless you know a way to transmute for free?
Your example is a good example tbh, it's made me realise its a bit of both of what we believe p2w is. I think P2w in this game, is something that is easily obtained (put behind some easy quest for example) , makes it near impossible for your opponent be it an enemy player or npc to defeat you and can only obtained by spending crowns. This 10k oblivion damage weapon would be p2w in pvp since you'd 1-3 hit everyone who isn't a tank. Jewellery crafting isn't p2w because just because of the small stat difference we found out earlier doesn't mean you're gonna automatically win but yes jewellery crafting makes a build stronger.
I believe there's nothing p2w in eso
Edited main paragraph
Sure the "pay to win" Statement doesnt involve that you win 100% with this. Its kinda irritating.
For me its more like pay to have an advantage. Some skilled players will still kill players who got 0 exp at class and build while wearing the best in slot gear where the skilled player only have average gear.
But its still. If you buy Summerset you CAN get or make better gear then players without Summerset. Even tho the difference isnt this huge.
Paying money = stronger Builds.
Are people born yesterday or what ?? According to your description World of Warcraft would be P2W because you have to buy the expansion to get the new powerfull gear or craft new gear sets and artifact weapons from the legion expansion and so on. And DLC in ESO are exactly that and are in no way P2W lmao. If you want to know what true P2W is go play some russian mmo like Skyforge or some Korean ones.Playing since January 23, 20160 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only things that are pay2win is armor & weapons with stats sold for cash, that's it, nothing else.0 -
Sevalaricgirl✭✭✭✭✭Pay 2 Win is when you can buy items to progress you that you can't get in game if you don't buy them. Buying an exclusive weapon that you can't get by playing the game is pay to win. Buying an exclusive weapon that is farmable in game is not pay 2 win.0
-
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Enemoriana wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.
But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?
Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?
Let me Show you an example:
2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.
The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.
Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.
No p2w? Really?
You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.
Dude what?
Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.
I am waiting.
pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
You are missing the point so bad that the entire US navy could sail past you and you'd never see em.
You are trying to compare what is considered content updates (yes, you have to buy content to get the stuff said content provides) vs in game store items to gain an advantage. 1 does not equal the other.Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
Robust Fury- Warrior's Fury is a Elite Gear Set. Sets pieces can be bought directly from the Elite Gear Vendors using Alliance Points, and are also available via "Rewards for the Worthy" mails by participating in PvP.
Advancing Yokeda-Berserking Warrior: Hel Ra Citadel Location of Hel Ra Citadel this Trial can be found in the South West of Craglorn.
7th Legion-Name: Seventh Legion Brute Type: Overland Location: Bangkorai
Raveger - Where to find Cyrodiil - Where to find
Cyrodiil - Vlastarus Elite Gear Vendor
Cyrodiil - Possible Daily Quest Reward
PvP - Rewards of the Worthy (Armor only)
OMG!!!! SO P2W THAT EVERY SET YOU LISTED IS IN THE BASE GAME!!!! *** ZOS!!!! STOP P2W!!!!
It's a little more sophisticated than that. They want to transmute the jewelry on the sets they're citing to robust (instead of healthy), which requires Summerset.
Of course, at the same time, the sets they're cherry picking are ones that a few theory craftors have looked at and realized could be completely re-purposed with the Summerset release. The old answers are still just as viable, but, they're crying P2W because they're chained to the Meta and can't think up a build for themselves, so clearly, "all of these things are BIS."
One example is using Berserking Warrior over Leviathan. I mean, Leviathan is base game, medium armor, actually fits the idea of running a StamDPS. So, Berserking Warrior trades a max stam effect for a weapon damage effect, with a very minor improvement to crit chance (less than 1%), while also forcing the user into melee in order to get the benefit. So, clearly, that's better.
Right.0 -
EvilAutoTech✭✭✭✭✭
✭Damn straight I paid to win. My main battle tank had zero PVP kills before Summerset. She now has over 100 PVP kills.
I paid for Summerset. I crafted Sload's. I won.1 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Enemoriana wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.
But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?
Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?
Let me Show you an example:
2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.
The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.
Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.
No p2w? Really?
You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.
Dude what?
Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.
I am waiting.
pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
You are missing the point so bad that the entire US navy could sail past you and you'd never see em.
You are trying to compare what is considered content updates (yes, you have to buy content to get the stuff said content provides) vs in game store items to gain an advantage. 1 does not equal the other.Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
Robust Fury- Warrior's Fury is a Elite Gear Set. Sets pieces can be bought directly from the Elite Gear Vendors using Alliance Points, and are also available via "Rewards for the Worthy" mails by participating in PvP.
Advancing Yokeda-Berserking Warrior: Hel Ra Citadel Location of Hel Ra Citadel this Trial can be found in the South West of Craglorn.
7th Legion-Name: Seventh Legion Brute Type: Overland Location: Bangkorai
Raveger - Where to find Cyrodiil - Where to find
Cyrodiil - Vlastarus Elite Gear Vendor
Cyrodiil - Possible Daily Quest Reward
PvP - Rewards of the Worthy (Armor only)
OMG!!!! SO P2W THAT EVERY SET YOU LISTED IS IN THE BASE GAME!!!! *** ZOS!!!! STOP P2W!!!!
Idk how you can be really this stupid. All these sets come with HEALTHY juwelry. HEALTHY.
Only with summerset you can transmute them to ROBUST.
And before you say "TrANsMUtATioN iS pArT oF THe BAse GaME "
You cant learn juwelry traits without summerset wich is needed to transmute.
Dude, Headshot. Do some research before posting. Thanks.0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pay to win is paying for anything that players cannot receive in game.. This includes level progress and anything that advances a character in a leveling game imo..
P2W has evolved over time and is no longer just power.
Not really. Some try to say it means many things but that does not make it so.
A lot of games don't even have power creep but they still have pay to win...
Do you consider a customer buying their characters at lv 50 fully geared and all skills and stats not Pay to win? Because in your opinion its not.. its just saving time.
Jewelry crafting... P2W
DLC gear better than Original gear... P2W
C'mon people yes its pay to win.Edited by DanteYoda on August 10, 2018 7:27AM0 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think "winning" is relative to each person and their goals. My goal and idea of winning in most video games is playing the game and earning all the progression, gear, etc.
So my definition of p2w is: Paying for progression, gear or any kind of advantage that is only available by paying or that a non-payer would have to earn. (exceptions being things like cosmetics, mounts, non-combat pets and houses)
Edited by N00BxV1 on August 10, 2018 8:11AM0 -
Saturnana✭✭✭✭✭P2W refers to situations where real money can be paid to gain items, perks, etc. that can never be earned in-game or through a non-cash option, and where said items, perks, etc. give a player an advantage over non-cash paying players.
ESO features a fair amount of pay 2 progress items in the frown store, which is something else entirely.@Saturnna | PC / EU
Nâmae Rin : Dragonknight | Dr Milodas Ra'Himo : Templar | Mira Motierre : Sorceress
Plays-ln-Puddles : Warden | Lady Neria : Dragonknight | Philadore : Nightblade
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Ha! I do love it when the mortals know they're being manipulated. Makes things infinitely more interesting."
- Sheogorath0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
So every mmo with expasions is p2w?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
So every mmo with expasions is p2w?
I am actually tired of repeating myself cause ppl only reading the first page. Read the thread and rethink your question.0 -
Algorax✭✭✭✭Please, for the last time, here is the exact definition of PTW:
" A game where players may pay for services, advantages which are otherwise impossible to acheive, therefore creating a gap between paying players and not paying ones which has no way to be equalized"3 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Isnt it paying to get an item giving you an advantage that is NOT available for FREE in game? Like Maelstrom Weapons...0 -
MaleAmazon✭✭✭✭✭
✭" A game where players may pay for services, advantages which are otherwise impossible to acheive, therefore creating a gap between paying players and not paying ones which has no way to be equalized"
Problem with that definition is that if you take it literally, then the warden class is PTW. Which it most assuredly isn´t. Hell, being able to pay for a faster internet connection is PTW... ZOS has imo done a really good job to avoid PTW. Things you buy are cosmetic or quality-of-life, and stuff like Tythis Andromo are disabled in PvP.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Enemoriana wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.
But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?
Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?
Let me Show you an example:
2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.
The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.
Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.
No p2w? Really?
You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.
Dude what?
Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.
I am waiting.
pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
You are missing the point so bad that the entire US navy could sail past you and you'd never see em.
You are trying to compare what is considered content updates (yes, you have to buy content to get the stuff said content provides) vs in game store items to gain an advantage. 1 does not equal the other.Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
Robust Fury- Warrior's Fury is a Elite Gear Set. Sets pieces can be bought directly from the Elite Gear Vendors using Alliance Points, and are also available via "Rewards for the Worthy" mails by participating in PvP.
Advancing Yokeda-Berserking Warrior: Hel Ra Citadel Location of Hel Ra Citadel this Trial can be found in the South West of Craglorn.
7th Legion-Name: Seventh Legion Brute Type: Overland Location: Bangkorai
Raveger - Where to find Cyrodiil - Where to find
Cyrodiil - Vlastarus Elite Gear Vendor
Cyrodiil - Possible Daily Quest Reward
PvP - Rewards of the Worthy (Armor only)
OMG!!!! SO P2W THAT EVERY SET YOU LISTED IS IN THE BASE GAME!!!! *** ZOS!!!! STOP P2W!!!!
Idk how you can be really this stupid. All these sets come with HEALTHY juwelry. HEALTHY.
Only with summerset you can transmute them to ROBUST.
And before you say "TrANsMUtATioN iS pArT oF THe BAse GaME "
You cant learn juwelry traits without summerset wich is needed to transmute.
Dude, Headshot. Do some research before posting. Thanks.
I was going to point out that these sets frequently mimic existing, base game sets, with marginally increased stats while also applying serious penalties that the player needs to work around. Case in point, Advancing Yokudan vs. Leviathan. To say nothing of the fact that people were already using 7th legion weapons and jewelry in PvP DPS long before retraiting became a thing, with a similar story for Ravager. So, yes, do some research.1 -
Xundiin✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.
But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?
Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?
Let me Show you an example:
2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.
The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.
Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.
No p2w? Really?
You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.
Dude what?
Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.
I am waiting.
pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
You are missing the point so bad that the entire US navy could sail past you and you'd never see em.
You are trying to compare what is considered content updates (yes, you have to buy content to get the stuff said content provides) vs in game store items to gain an advantage. 1 does not equal the other.Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
Robust Fury- Warrior's Fury is a Elite Gear Set. Sets pieces can be bought directly from the Elite Gear Vendors using Alliance Points, and are also available via "Rewards for the Worthy" mails by participating in PvP.
Advancing Yokeda-Berserking Warrior: Hel Ra Citadel Location of Hel Ra Citadel this Trial can be found in the South West of Craglorn.
7th Legion-Name: Seventh Legion Brute Type: Overland Location: Bangkorai
Raveger - Where to find Cyrodiil - Where to find
Cyrodiil - Vlastarus Elite Gear Vendor
Cyrodiil - Possible Daily Quest Reward
PvP - Rewards of the Worthy (Armor only)
OMG!!!! SO P2W THAT EVERY SET YOU LISTED IS IN THE BASE GAME!!!! *** ZOS!!!! STOP P2W!!!!
Idk how you can be really this stupid. All these sets come with HEALTHY juwelry. HEALTHY.
Only with summerset you can transmute them to ROBUST.
And before you say "TrANsMUtATioN iS pArT oF THe BAse GaME "
You cant learn juwelry traits without summerset wich is needed to transmute.
Dude, Headshot. Do some research before posting. Thanks.
I was going to point out that these sets frequently mimic existing, base game sets, with marginally increased stats while also applying serious penalties that the player needs to work around. Case in point, Advancing Yokudan vs. Leviathan. To say nothing of the fact that people were already using 7th legion weapons and jewelry in PvP DPS long before retraiting became a thing, with a similar story for Ravager. So, yes, do some research.
@Gnozo... Boom head shot. Maybe you should start using that brain of yours for something more than holding your ears apart. huh? just a suggestion. No expansion gives a DPS increase of another that's so massive that previous sets are made obsolete. Just like the difference between a Khajiit Magicka Sorc and an Altmer is less than 3%. Please.... learn the game before you start foaming at the mouth. Look at options instead of just following what everyone else tells you. in other words... think for yourself.
is this where I get to be a *** and scream BOOM!!!! HEAD SHOT!!!!
Edited by Xundiin on August 10, 2018 5:26PM#SavePlayer10 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »When you get an advantage whether that be sets, crafting etc. by paying money.
So yeah dlc is p2w.
Jewellery crafting is p2w.
Someone who has bought all dlc are has access to stronger builds and sets because of it it technically p2w. Because they have better stats/ more dps better pvp setup because they payed extra.
And this would be not really. Some may look at it this way Ns that’s fine. Just not correct.
Jewelry crafting most certainly is not OP. Laughable someone would think so.
Access to me sets is not OP either. If a set us truly outperforming it gets corrected as we are seeing with next weeks update. Plus everyone in this game has had access to every set in this game both drops and craftable except for a small few sets.
So neither is close to P2W and only those with limited exposure to such things would think so.0 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭the 2 choices are too close to each other and don't really cover the topic.
Eso is not P2W
P2W is buying something that directly gives you an advantage in combat that a non paying player couldn't get through playing the game's content. XP increases, research time reduction, extra gold gains, extra bank space,..... and such are not a direct advantage over another player.
However, selling weapons and gear with more damage directly to people in the shop would be an example of P2W which ESO doesn't do.Edited by Arrodisia on August 10, 2018 6:13PM0 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.
But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?
Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?
Let me Show you an example:
2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.
The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.
Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.
No p2w? Really?
You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.
Dude what?
Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.
I am waiting.
pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
You are missing the point so bad that the entire US navy could sail past you and you'd never see em.
You are trying to compare what is considered content updates (yes, you have to buy content to get the stuff said content provides) vs in game store items to gain an advantage. 1 does not equal the other.Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
Robust Fury- Warrior's Fury is a Elite Gear Set. Sets pieces can be bought directly from the Elite Gear Vendors using Alliance Points, and are also available via "Rewards for the Worthy" mails by participating in PvP.
Advancing Yokeda-Berserking Warrior: Hel Ra Citadel Location of Hel Ra Citadel this Trial can be found in the South West of Craglorn.
7th Legion-Name: Seventh Legion Brute Type: Overland Location: Bangkorai
Raveger - Where to find Cyrodiil - Where to find
Cyrodiil - Vlastarus Elite Gear Vendor
Cyrodiil - Possible Daily Quest Reward
PvP - Rewards of the Worthy (Armor only)
OMG!!!! SO P2W THAT EVERY SET YOU LISTED IS IN THE BASE GAME!!!! *** ZOS!!!! STOP P2W!!!!
Idk how you can be really this stupid. All these sets come with HEALTHY juwelry. HEALTHY.
Only with summerset you can transmute them to ROBUST.
And before you say "TrANsMUtATioN iS pArT oF THe BAse GaME "
You cant learn juwelry traits without summerset wich is needed to transmute.
Dude, Headshot. Do some research before posting. Thanks.
I was going to point out that these sets frequently mimic existing, base game sets, with marginally increased stats while also applying serious penalties that the player needs to work around. Case in point, Advancing Yokudan vs. Leviathan. To say nothing of the fact that people were already using 7th legion weapons and jewelry in PvP DPS long before retraiting became a thing, with a similar story for Ravager. So, yes, do some research.
@Gnozo... Boom head shot. Maybe you should start using that brain of yours for something more than holding your ears apart. huh? just a suggestion. No expansion gives a DPS increase of another that's so massive that previous sets are made obsolete. Just like the difference between a Khajiit Magicka Sorc and an Altmer is less than 3%. Please.... learn the game before you start foaming at the mouth. Look at options instead of just following what everyone else tells you. in other words... think for yourself.
is this where I get to be a *** and scream BOOM!!!! HEAD SHOT!!!!
Actually my point still stands. Shown in previous posts that for example a StamDK with following sets:
Fury + Ravager + Bloodspawn can go with Robust juwelry instead of healthy. Giving him more Damage + Healing + Sustain.
A Player without Summerset CAN`T get this with exactly the same setup. So the setup with summerset gets a buff that a player without summerset can´t get no matter how hard he tries.
Even when its only 1% in general. It is still an advantage over the player without Summerset who uses the same setup.
Now defend this more like the little fanboy you are.
*insert random reaction gif to be cool*0 -
Saturnana✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.
But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?
Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?
Let me Show you an example:
2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.
The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.
Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.
No p2w? Really?
You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.
Dude what?
Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.
I am waiting.
pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
You are missing the point so bad that the entire US navy could sail past you and you'd never see em.
You are trying to compare what is considered content updates (yes, you have to buy content to get the stuff said content provides) vs in game store items to gain an advantage. 1 does not equal the other.Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
Robust Fury- Warrior's Fury is a Elite Gear Set. Sets pieces can be bought directly from the Elite Gear Vendors using Alliance Points, and are also available via "Rewards for the Worthy" mails by participating in PvP.
Advancing Yokeda-Berserking Warrior: Hel Ra Citadel Location of Hel Ra Citadel this Trial can be found in the South West of Craglorn.
7th Legion-Name: Seventh Legion Brute Type: Overland Location: Bangkorai
Raveger - Where to find Cyrodiil - Where to find
Cyrodiil - Vlastarus Elite Gear Vendor
Cyrodiil - Possible Daily Quest Reward
PvP - Rewards of the Worthy (Armor only)
OMG!!!! SO P2W THAT EVERY SET YOU LISTED IS IN THE BASE GAME!!!! *** ZOS!!!! STOP P2W!!!!
Idk how you can be really this stupid. All these sets come with HEALTHY juwelry. HEALTHY.
Only with summerset you can transmute them to ROBUST.
And before you say "TrANsMUtATioN iS pArT oF THe BAse GaME "
You cant learn juwelry traits without summerset wich is needed to transmute.
Dude, Headshot. Do some research before posting. Thanks.
I was going to point out that these sets frequently mimic existing, base game sets, with marginally increased stats while also applying serious penalties that the player needs to work around. Case in point, Advancing Yokudan vs. Leviathan. To say nothing of the fact that people were already using 7th legion weapons and jewelry in PvP DPS long before retraiting became a thing, with a similar story for Ravager. So, yes, do some research.
@Gnozo... Boom head shot. Maybe you should start using that brain of yours for something more than holding your ears apart. huh? just a suggestion. No expansion gives a DPS increase of another that's so massive that previous sets are made obsolete. Just like the difference between a Khajiit Magicka Sorc and an Altmer is less than 3%. Please.... learn the game before you start foaming at the mouth. Look at options instead of just following what everyone else tells you. in other words... think for yourself.
is this where I get to be a *** and scream BOOM!!!! HEAD SHOT!!!!
Actually my point still stands. Shown in previous posts that for example a StamDK with following sets:
Fury + Ravager + Bloodspawn can go with Robust juwelry instead of healthy. Giving him more Damage + Healing + Sustain.
A Player without Summerset CAN`T get this with exactly the same setup. So the setup with summerset gets a buff that a player without summerset can´t get no matter how hard he tries.
Even when its only 1% in general. It is still an advantage over the player without Summerset who uses the same setup.
Now defend this more like the little fanboy you are.
*insert random reaction gif to be cool*
This isn't exactly true.
Someone without Summerset can't retrait jewelry themselves, but they can pay someone else to do it for them.
Edit: I only just found out retraiting binds the item, whoopsie.Edited by Saturnana on August 10, 2018 6:51PM@Saturnna | PC / EU
Nâmae Rin : Dragonknight | Dr Milodas Ra'Himo : Templar | Mira Motierre : Sorceress
Plays-ln-Puddles : Warden | Lady Neria : Dragonknight | Philadore : Nightblade
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Ha! I do love it when the mortals know they're being manipulated. Makes things infinitely more interesting."
- Sheogorath0 -
Hixtory✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.
But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?
Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?
Let me Show you an example:
2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.
The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.
Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.
No p2w? Really?
You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.
Dude what?
Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.
I am waiting.
pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
You are missing the point so bad that the entire US navy could sail past you and you'd never see em.
You are trying to compare what is considered content updates (yes, you have to buy content to get the stuff said content provides) vs in game store items to gain an advantage. 1 does not equal the other.Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
Robust Fury- Warrior's Fury is a Elite Gear Set. Sets pieces can be bought directly from the Elite Gear Vendors using Alliance Points, and are also available via "Rewards for the Worthy" mails by participating in PvP.
Advancing Yokeda-Berserking Warrior: Hel Ra Citadel Location of Hel Ra Citadel this Trial can be found in the South West of Craglorn.
7th Legion-Name: Seventh Legion Brute Type: Overland Location: Bangkorai
Raveger - Where to find Cyrodiil - Where to find
Cyrodiil - Vlastarus Elite Gear Vendor
Cyrodiil - Possible Daily Quest Reward
PvP - Rewards of the Worthy (Armor only)
OMG!!!! SO P2W THAT EVERY SET YOU LISTED IS IN THE BASE GAME!!!! *** ZOS!!!! STOP P2W!!!!
Idk how you can be really this stupid. All these sets come with HEALTHY juwelry. HEALTHY.
Only with summerset you can transmute them to ROBUST.
And before you say "TrANsMUtATioN iS pArT oF THe BAse GaME "
You cant learn juwelry traits without summerset wich is needed to transmute.
Dude, Headshot. Do some research before posting. Thanks.
I was going to point out that these sets frequently mimic existing, base game sets, with marginally increased stats while also applying serious penalties that the player needs to work around. Case in point, Advancing Yokudan vs. Leviathan. To say nothing of the fact that people were already using 7th legion weapons and jewelry in PvP DPS long before retraiting became a thing, with a similar story for Ravager. So, yes, do some research.
@Gnozo... Boom head shot. Maybe you should start using that brain of yours for something more than holding your ears apart. huh? just a suggestion. No expansion gives a DPS increase of another that's so massive that previous sets are made obsolete. Just like the difference between a Khajiit Magicka Sorc and an Altmer is less than 3%. Please.... learn the game before you start foaming at the mouth. Look at options instead of just following what everyone else tells you. in other words... think for yourself.
is this where I get to be a *** and scream BOOM!!!! HEAD SHOT!!!!
Actually my point still stands. Shown in previous posts that for example a StamDK with following sets:
Fury + Ravager + Bloodspawn can go with Robust juwelry instead of healthy. Giving him more Damage + Healing + Sustain.
A Player without Summerset CAN`T get this with exactly the same setup. So the setup with summerset gets a buff that a player without summerset can´t get no matter how hard he tries.
Even when its only 1% in general. It is still an advantage over the player without Summerset who uses the same setup.
Now defend this more like the little fanboy you are.
*insert random reaction gif to be cool*
This isn't exactly true.
Someone without Summerset can't retrait jewelry themselves, but they can pay someone else to do it for them.
Edit: I only just found out retraiting binds the item, whoopsie.
He's actually right, if you transmute something it is bound to your account. So yeah, thats pay to win.
Hmmmmmm interesting1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.
But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?
Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?
Let me Show you an example:
2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.
The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.
Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.
No p2w? Really?
You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.
Dude what?
Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.
I am waiting.
pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
You are missing the point so bad that the entire US navy could sail past you and you'd never see em.
You are trying to compare what is considered content updates (yes, you have to buy content to get the stuff said content provides) vs in game store items to gain an advantage. 1 does not equal the other.Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
Robust Fury- Warrior's Fury is a Elite Gear Set. Sets pieces can be bought directly from the Elite Gear Vendors using Alliance Points, and are also available via "Rewards for the Worthy" mails by participating in PvP.
Advancing Yokeda-Berserking Warrior: Hel Ra Citadel Location of Hel Ra Citadel this Trial can be found in the South West of Craglorn.
7th Legion-Name: Seventh Legion Brute Type: Overland Location: Bangkorai
Raveger - Where to find Cyrodiil - Where to find
Cyrodiil - Vlastarus Elite Gear Vendor
Cyrodiil - Possible Daily Quest Reward
PvP - Rewards of the Worthy (Armor only)
OMG!!!! SO P2W THAT EVERY SET YOU LISTED IS IN THE BASE GAME!!!! *** ZOS!!!! STOP P2W!!!!
Idk how you can be really this stupid. All these sets come with HEALTHY juwelry. HEALTHY.
Only with summerset you can transmute them to ROBUST.
And before you say "TrANsMUtATioN iS pArT oF THe BAse GaME "
You cant learn juwelry traits without summerset wich is needed to transmute.
Dude, Headshot. Do some research before posting. Thanks.
I was going to point out that these sets frequently mimic existing, base game sets, with marginally increased stats while also applying serious penalties that the player needs to work around. Case in point, Advancing Yokudan vs. Leviathan. To say nothing of the fact that people were already using 7th legion weapons and jewelry in PvP DPS long before retraiting became a thing, with a similar story for Ravager. So, yes, do some research.
@Gnozo... Boom head shot. Maybe you should start using that brain of yours for something more than holding your ears apart. huh? just a suggestion. No expansion gives a DPS increase of another that's so massive that previous sets are made obsolete. Just like the difference between a Khajiit Magicka Sorc and an Altmer is less than 3%. Please.... learn the game before you start foaming at the mouth. Look at options instead of just following what everyone else tells you. in other words... think for yourself.
is this where I get to be a *** and scream BOOM!!!! HEAD SHOT!!!!
Actually my point still stands. Shown in previous posts that for example a StamDK with following sets:
Fury + Ravager + Bloodspawn can go with Robust juwelry instead of healthy. Giving him more Damage + Healing + Sustain.
A Player without Summerset CAN`T get this with exactly the same setup. So the setup with summerset gets a buff that a player without summerset can´t get no matter how hard he tries.
Even when its only 1% in general. It is still an advantage over the player without Summerset who uses the same setup.
Now defend this more like the little fanboy you are.
*insert random reaction gif to be cool*
This isn't exactly true.
Someone without Summerset can't retrait jewelry themselves, but they can pay someone else to do it for them.
Edit: I only just found out retraiting binds the item, whoopsie.
He's actually right, if you transmute something it is bound to your account. So yeah, thats pay to win.
Hmmmmmm interesting
Again, incorrect. In the end it is still something obtainable in game hence not more powerful.
As stated previously, people can say whatever they want is P2W but what the masses consider P2W is pretty solid and is an example that does not measure up by any means.0 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As some people like to argue that cosmetics are an advantage because they make the game more enjoyable, my definition of P2W is pretty specific: It's when you can use real money to buy weapons, armor, buffs, debuffs or similar items that will help you to more easily beat other people in combat that haven't bought the same things.0 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would define it that way:
Pay2win is, if a game provides the opportunity to spend real money or a real money substitute to buy ingame items, that provide actual, non cosmetic use. It is progress that can be bought and somehow measured.
There is no need for OP items, you can buy crap items as well. Like crown soulgems, stealing empty ones and filling them makes more sense, but the crown ones still provide an advantage that can be measured.
Same is true for housing, if a house can be bought for crowns and ingame gold, the crown one is pay2win. Housing started as *pure cosmetics*, but since housing inventory has been introduced, they became a P2W part.
P2W does not need to make any sense, whether skilled and well informed players can outperform payers or not does not matter.
That said, pets and costumes are not P2W. Mounts would be if you buy your first mount for crowns. Motifs could be P2W if you provide crafting services for gold. Houses and housing storage are P2W.
Chapters and DLC are not since the main selling point is content. ESO+ is a mix of content and P2W in terms of QoL if you dont own the DLCs, if you do it is P2W.0 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭The entire way this poll was worded is rather vague and can be interpreted in A LOT of different ways. For the 8 jillionth time....Pay to Win is an exclusively PvP term. You cannot "Pay to Win" in PvE. Just because someone else can access DLC that they paid for and someone else can't because they won't or cannot buy it...doesn't make it Pay to Win.
Actual Pay to Win: In a player versus player setting where the BiS (and it will be WAAAAY better than anything you earn in game) is available ONLY by purchase with real world currency and usually at an exorbitant rate.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »Enemoriana wrote: »For me it depends. Can you get this progress/items without spending money?
If yes = no p2w
If no = p2w
For me, eso is heavily p2w.
Vma weapons, Asylum weapons, juwelry crafting and the warden class. These things you can only get if you put money on it. And we know how strong stamdens are. How good asylum and vma weapons are. And that you can never transmute dropped juwelry without spending money.
But you don't pay for vMA or asylum weapons. You pay for DLC. You pay to play, same as you paid for game. You still need to work for them.
And what is "win" part in wardens? It's all about knowledge and skill, not just class. If I'll take warden - it won't be better then any other class.
But can i get vma or asylum weapons without the dlc?
Can i get robust fury rings without summerset?
Let me Show you an example:
2x StamDKs dueling. Same setups. Ravager + Fury and Bloodspawn. One without any dlc or chapter. The other one with all of it.
The paying player can get: Robust juwelry giving him more Damage and healing and backbar he can put the normal asylum 2h for more ult gen.
Both players have the same skilllevel. Butthe paying one got more damage/healing die to robust rings and more ult gen with asylum that the non paying player can never ever get without spending money.
No p2w? Really?
You can't get vMA weapon (well, except days of free ESO+). You also can't get anything without buying base game itself, you know? You need to pay for it, so it's "pay-to-win" from the first day! Stupid, yeah?
It would be P2W if you could buy vMA weapon for crowns. But it's not pay-to-win if you get part of the game. It's pay-to-play and play-to-win, absolutely as base game.
Dude what?
Pls tell me exactly how robust fury rings in my example of 2 StamDKs with the same skill level are not an advantage.
I am waiting.
pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"
Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
You are missing the point so bad that the entire US navy could sail past you and you'd never see em.
You are trying to compare what is considered content updates (yes, you have to buy content to get the stuff said content provides) vs in game store items to gain an advantage. 1 does not equal the other.Robust Fury/Advancing Yokeda/Ravager/7th Legion and much more are better items.
Robust Fury- Warrior's Fury is a Elite Gear Set. Sets pieces can be bought directly from the Elite Gear Vendors using Alliance Points, and are also available via "Rewards for the Worthy" mails by participating in PvP.
Advancing Yokeda-Berserking Warrior: Hel Ra Citadel Location of Hel Ra Citadel this Trial can be found in the South West of Craglorn.
7th Legion-Name: Seventh Legion Brute Type: Overland Location: Bangkorai
Raveger - Where to find Cyrodiil - Where to find
Cyrodiil - Vlastarus Elite Gear Vendor
Cyrodiil - Possible Daily Quest Reward
PvP - Rewards of the Worthy (Armor only)
OMG!!!! SO P2W THAT EVERY SET YOU LISTED IS IN THE BASE GAME!!!! *** ZOS!!!! STOP P2W!!!!
Idk how you can be really this stupid. All these sets come with HEALTHY juwelry. HEALTHY.
Only with summerset you can transmute them to ROBUST.
And before you say "TrANsMUtATioN iS pArT oF THe BAse GaME "
You cant learn juwelry traits without summerset wich is needed to transmute.
Dude, Headshot. Do some research before posting. Thanks.
I was going to point out that these sets frequently mimic existing, base game sets, with marginally increased stats while also applying serious penalties that the player needs to work around. Case in point, Advancing Yokudan vs. Leviathan. To say nothing of the fact that people were already using 7th legion weapons and jewelry in PvP DPS long before retraiting became a thing, with a similar story for Ravager. So, yes, do some research.
@Gnozo... Boom head shot. Maybe you should start using that brain of yours for something more than holding your ears apart. huh? just a suggestion. No expansion gives a DPS increase of another that's so massive that previous sets are made obsolete. Just like the difference between a Khajiit Magicka Sorc and an Altmer is less than 3%. Please.... learn the game before you start foaming at the mouth. Look at options instead of just following what everyone else tells you. in other words... think for yourself.
is this where I get to be a *** and scream BOOM!!!! HEAD SHOT!!!!
Actually my point still stands. Shown in previous posts that for example a StamDK with following sets:
Fury + Ravager + Bloodspawn can go with Robust juwelry instead of healthy. Giving him more Damage + Healing + Sustain.
A Player without Summerset CAN`T get this with exactly the same setup. So the setup with summerset gets a buff that a player without summerset can´t get no matter how hard he tries.
Even when its only 1% in general. It is still an advantage over the player without Summerset who uses the same setup.
Now defend this more like the little fanboy you are.
*insert random reaction gif to be cool*
So you get to put some more stamina enchants on your armor instead of health glyphs. How will you ever survive?0 -
Mattock_Romulus✭✭✭✭✭Sevalaricgirl wrote: »Pay 2 Win is when you can buy items to progress you that you can't get in game if you don't buy them. Buying an exclusive weapon that you can't get by playing the game is pay to win. Buying an exclusive weapon that is farmable in game is not pay 2 win.
So, if we could buy ownership of a keep that would NOT be pay to win then?0
