Dreyloch wrote: »

Here's a small thing that could be why this skill is getting so much flak.

When your hit with a root, or petrify, you remain in the standing position and the animation to break free is just basically spreading your arms out with a small roar.

When it comes to Rune cage, you are brought to your knees. This means when you break free your character first has to stand up, then do the normal animations. While in that 1/2 to 1 second of time (maybe more with lag), your taking on more damage getting upright. I think this is the part that gets everyone so extremely annoyed. I play a sorc and I don't really use it because (as mentioned by others), it's greyed out most of the time. Almost not worth having on your bar imo.

So I say maybe an animation change could help, but I would really like the frags stun back. I honestly don't care too much what happens with rune cage.

Valrien wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@itzTJ please link me your Mag Sorc content from CWC and Dragon Bones. I'm looking forward to it.

I always wonder why people have to be so bias. Like i understand you main mag sorc. I played stamblade for a long time and I always knew what was OP about the class.. And a lot of stamblades i talk to know what makes their class strong as well.. But it seems so many mag sorcs cant admit when something is too strong. I just dont understand why.

I mean this game is so simple when it comes to class strength. By playing the class and also knowing what it has in its kit its not hard to understand. Take a look at what a mag sorc has vs a stam sorc, for example, im sure you'll grasp it.

And in regards to your comment, i dont have any mag sorc content to show you. I havent touched mine in over a year. But i will be checking yours out .. Its not hard to understand any class in this game, especially if you've played it a good amount...

Perhaps because Sorcs don't have much to admit to, seeing as they're easily counterable?

Uh huh.... Another sorc main.... I mean at least get the *** out of your signatures so your opinion doesnt seem so bias. But anyway enlighten me to your counters, v16 dunmeri sorc main, and i'll see if they match up to my counters.

Does it really still say v16? Man I haven't changed that in forever.

Well, like I've said in other threads:

Shields only last 5 seconds. Easiest counter would be to count to 4 then CC them. The shield will fall off. Sorcs only have so much stamina because they're so Magicka-heavy, so it won't take many cycles of this to run them out.

Sorcs also have AWFUL sustain. If you put pressure on them and force them to shield spam then they'll run out of resources quickly, because Hardened Ward is especially costly. Doubly true for Stamina users, because then the Sorc doesn't even get MP back for Harness Magicka. You also effectively have 0 armor when shielded, so you do a bit more damage to a shielded Sorc.

Sorc burst is good, but the combo is delicate. If you disrupt the combo then the burst is ineffective and they basically have to start over from scratch. This can be done a number of ways...CC mid-combo, DK wings to reflect the projectiles (LAs and Frags...I forget can Endless Fury still be reflected?), straight up Purge since half of it is status effects that are placed on you, using a damage shield and/or a heal before the Rune Cage to ensure max survivability.

In other words, counter play is key, and the fact that most of this counter play is so easy to do is why you won't usually find a Sorc killing a skilled player.

Naturally, the words coming out of your mouth are from a Stamblade so I'm not very surprised that you're on the Nerf Sorc bandwagon.

Valrien wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@itzTJ please link me your Mag Sorc content from CWC and Dragon Bones. I'm looking forward to it.

I always wonder why people have to be so bias. Like i understand you main mag sorc. I played stamblade for a long time and I always knew what was OP about the class.. And a lot of stamblades i talk to know what makes their class strong as well.. But it seems so many mag sorcs cant admit when something is too strong. I just dont understand why.

I mean this game is so simple when it comes to class strength. By playing the class and also knowing what it has in its kit its not hard to understand. Take a look at what a mag sorc has vs a stam sorc, for example, im sure you'll grasp it.

And in regards to your comment, i dont have any mag sorc content to show you. I havent touched mine in over a year. But i will be checking yours out .. Its not hard to understand any class in this game, especially if you've played it a good amount...

Perhaps because Sorcs don't have much to admit to, seeing as they're easily counterable?

Uh huh.... Another sorc main.... I mean at least get the *** out of your signatures so your opinion doesnt seem so bias. But anyway enlighten me to your counters, v16 dunmeri sorc main, and i'll see if they match up to my counters.

Does it really still say v16? Man I haven't changed that in forever.

Well, like I've said in other threads:

Shields only last 5 seconds. Easiest counter would be to count to 4 then CC them. The shield will fall off. Sorcs only have so much stamina because they're so Magicka-heavy, so it won't take many cycles of this to run them out.

Sorcs also have AWFUL sustain. If you put pressure on them and force them to shield spam then they'll run out of resources quickly, because Hardened Ward is especially costly. Doubly true for Stamina users, because then the Sorc doesn't even get MP back for Harness Magicka. You also effectively have 0 armor when shielded, so you do a bit more damage to a shielded Sorc.

Sorc burst is good, but the combo is delicate. If you disrupt the combo then the burst is ineffective and they basically have to start over from scratch. This can be done a number of ways...CC mid-combo, DK wings to reflect the projectiles (LAs and Frags...I forget can Endless Fury still be reflected?), straight up Purge since half of it is status effects that are placed on you, using a damage shield and/or a heal before the Rune Cage to ensure max survivability.

In other words, counter play is key, and the fact that most of this counter play is so easy to do is why you won't usually find a Sorc killing a skilled player.

Naturally, the words coming out of your mouth are from a Stamblade so I'm not very surprised that you're on the Nerf Sorc bandwagon.

Actually no, im a stam sorc. You know that class on the other side of the spectrum? lul some counters you have there.. Ill just simply say i disagree with a lot of what you said.

Lets start with burst... Right now, with the way rune prison is, the combo is also not delicate. LA, curse, LA, execute, Rune prison, frag. Or insert a meteor before frag. The funnny thing is, all the good sorcs i fight without rune prison are still strong AF but not broken with that meteor combo. Taking a meteor, frag, curse, and a non dodge-able execute to the face is broken no matter what angle you look at it from.

Also sustain? Please. Shackle/lich... Pick your monster set.. And lets not forget heavy attacking the ENTIRE fight..

You're also wrong about shields. 1st, a lot of sorcs are good at keeping shields up, and if they dont keep them up then they aren't good.. And they have the sustain to do it (see above). 2nd You cant crit a shield and a lot of damage comes from crits.

All im saying is sorcs have no reason to complain. Huge shields, huge burst, huge mobility, huge melee counter in mines, strong execute, implosion, a way to get resources back in dark exchange, and a broken CC. For me fighting a sorc has always been surviving their burst until the opportunity comes to kill them. Rune prison makes that nearly impossible because you are eating one of the most ruthless combos in the game head on multiple times in a fight.

And theres a few counters i do agree with but not everyone has reflect or purge. Personally i usually try to stun them right, and i mean RIGHT, before rune prison goes down.. But this only works if you're close and able to stun them. You can also create distance between you and the sorc when they go for the rune prison combo, which seems to help how long it takes for the frag to hit. But theres too many "ifs" and "maybes" with the rune prison combo.

Why dont you ask yourself this, sorc main.... I kill a lot of players in pvp and duels.. Why are there no nerf stam sorc threads? Or nerf stamplar threads? stam dks? mag nb? Why soo many nerf mag sorc threads over the years? Are there really so many great sorcs out there? Or maybe the class has been very strong at different points in the game and needed to be brought back down to where it should be... I think this might just be one of those times..

Why is Nightblade so broken but there are hardly any nerf Nightblade threads?

The answer is simple. One or two streamers, such as Fengrush, have complained about Sorc. Whether or not the complaints are valid, it starts an avalanche of nerf sorc complaints with people hopping onto the bandwagon without realizing why they're saying what they're saying.

And no, the sustain is not that great. You will still run out of MP in a battle of attrition without a doubt. Those sets just delay the inevitable. That's why it's a burst class, but if you can't burst them then you're gonna run out of steam.

As for shields, yes a good Sorc can keep them up, but A. That eats up a GCD and interrupts any sort of combo you still have going on and B. Shields are expensive.

If you shield too often, you'll slowly lose momentum until you get overwhelmed. It's about tempo on Sorc, you have to be on top and stay on top in the fight.

And yes, everyone has access to Purge. If you're not rocking Purge and simultaneously complaining about Sorc, then you have no right to complain.

It's like standing in fire and asking why you feel so hot.

As for your other points:
-Huge mobility: Gap closers exist, why do people still care about Bolt Escape? They negate the ability entirely...and if you Bolt Escape too much, your sustain gets even worse

-Mines...they're pretty meh. Like, don't get me wrong, they're not bad in the slightest...but they have very situational use, and are even more costly than shields.

-The execute is good in PvP, *** in PvE. Altogether I just hate the skill, in terms of usability. I wish the execute had higher range, and the bolt functions similar to Impale (gets 300% stronger below 25% health) instead of the delayed burst. Sorcs need a good execute that isn't just for kill stealing.

-Dark Exchange...LOL, that is all I have to say. Not even worth mentioning.

-Rune Prison: yes, it is quite literally broken...and now with it being gutted Sorcs have no means of reliable CC. That's one of the biggest problems with Templars and look where they are.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Make Boundless remove snares and roots and give immunity like Shuffle.

Remove exponential cost increase from Bolt Escape.

Add 20% damage buff and stun back to Frags.

Remove cooldown from Surge heals so we can outheal Sloads and Shield Breaker.