Something needs to be done about this "fake tank" crap

lagrue · July 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Right after they do something about the fake DPS I keep seem to be getting as group-mates via the activity finder...

They're not fake, just bad

I agree though, good tanks are hard to come by, and I hate fake tanks.

And tanks are an absolute must for Scalecaller

So you're saying they're failing to adequately pefrom the role they queued for?

Sounds alot like the tanks OP is posting about. I see no difference.

Being bad at a role, and using a character literally unable to perform the role, I would argue are different.

Somebody queing up with 12k HP and no taunt is 100% incapable of tanking. Anybody can DPS though, whether they're good or not remains to be seen - but the point stands, even if they suck at it, they CAN do it..

lagrue · July 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Why in the hell do need a tank for any non dlc dungeon. It shows you lack experience, running full dps or maybe one healer is always the best option

Queing for Dungeon Finder doesn't really give you that choice. You're forced into a cookie cutter Heal/Tank/x2 DPS group.

and when a fake tank joins, they are almost always bad at DPS too, so in fact it's like playing with a broken leg and trying to run through, it slows everything down to a monumental halt

DoobZ69 · July 2018

I main a tank and is pretty much the only role/toon I play. I run the pledges almost every night on Vet. What puzzles me the most is when a run is clean and fast and no problem people just say thanks and quit. Back in the days of WoW I would get friend requests for the fact that I am a tank and it made their life easier to run with someone they know is reliable rather than Pugging.

At the end of the day Pugging is easy as a tank because I (mostly) control the fights and the pace. The fights can be longer with a weaker DPS but is only an issue in a DLC dungeon. This is why I've now started befriending good DPS+Healer players, but no-one is still interested in securing a Tank. So now I almost have no issue doing a DLC vet dungeon but other people are still experiencing a problem with fake roles. *shrug*

So my point is the fake tank/dps/healer thing may be an issue but a lot of it can be prevented with a little simple foresight of building your own group of reliable players.

Jeremy · July 2018

remilafo wrote: »

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

remilafo wrote: »

Just adapt, makes you stronger in the end. Depending on a quote "Real tank" just means you lake the flexibility to survive.

No Dungeon requires a quote "real tank" infact

- any normal dungeon and trials can be accomplished with a mishmash of whatever really.
- With the exception of a few bosses, almost all veteran dungeon content can be done without a tank, 1 healer and 3 dps are okay. Also often 1 tank and 3 dps is fine also. Infact 4 dps/solo builds like for Vma for example do veteran content just fine.
- Even some trials can be done without a tank like VDSA

The point is, stop complaining and adapt. Or as the internet says GIT GUD

remilafo wrote: »

Just adapt, makes you stronger in the end. Depending on a quote "Real tank" just means you lake the flexibility to survive.

No Dungeon requires a quote "real tank" infact

- any normal dungeon and trials can be accomplished with a mishmash of whatever really.
- With the exception of a few bosses, almost all veteran dungeon content can be done without a tank, 1 healer and 3 dps are okay. Also often 1 tank and 3 dps is fine also. Infact 4 dps/solo builds like for Vma for example do veteran content just fine.
- Even some trials can be done without a tank like VDSA

The point is, stop complaining and adapt. Or as the internet says GIT GUD

This isnt the point. Impersonating a Role you arent should be against the TOS. Clear and simple, i just leave and/or vote to kick, simple. I have a Tank and also a Healer if i want i get another Dungeon straight away

It is not against the TOS, don't be silly. If it is please find me the exact line and paste it here i will stand corrected.

You make a fair point BUT there is a caveat, you are assuming what a "Tank" is..... if what you call a "DPS" manages to do the most damage and hence has all the aggro and doesn't die, that is a good enough tank for me.

He said it should be against the TOS in that post. He didn't say it was. So you are criticizing him for being silly because he said something he never said in the first place.

Jeremy · July 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

I usually run a templar healer in dungeons and have learned to carry a frost staff to quasi-tank when the main tank is a subpar DPS. I use dressing room and swap into a more sturdy config with health and stam buffs. Ice staff front bar, restro back bar. It works well enough for lower-level vet dungeons. For the harder dungeons, though, (like Scalecaller) you really do need an actual tank.

I used to do this.

But it got to be so frequent I eventually said why bother. Might as well bring my character who actually is designed to tank instead of trying to half ass a tank on my healer all the time.

POps75p wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

to be honest I do this a lot, but it's always not random but specific that i'm farming for specific pieces of equipment. plus most on normal don't need a tank, but their are a few exceptions where one is really needed. plus most can just about be done solo, so tough it up big guy. cry over something that is really a problem

Maybe I should build a DPS character and then queue up as a healer and just focus on doing damage and "soloing" while other people die due to me not healing them because I'm actually not a healer. Then just tell everyone to tough it up and stop crying if they rightfully complain about it because a healer "isn't needed" and they should learn to heal themselves. But i would never do that. Why? Because I'm not a ____. Like some.

I can solo dungeons too. Big deal. That still doesn't mean I should lie about my role and force other players in the group to perform roles they did not sign up for. And this is beside the point anyway - because the players I am describing in my OP couldn't solo a wet paper bag.

Also: this is a video game forum: a place you go to criticize or praise certain elements of the game. So if you can't handle reading these criticisms because they may touch a little too close to home or something - then perhaps you are the one who needs to stop crying and tough it up big guy. Because yes, this is really a problem. But then again you know that already don't you? Because from the sound of it - you are part of it. And that is likely why you don't want me talking about this. You're worried it might lead to something actually being done about it and ruining your speedy queue times as a DPS.

Gprime31 · July 2018

Why a tank is not needed for 80-85% of dungeons anyway 4 dps can crush most content. Get gud

Jeremy · July 2018

Gprime31 wrote: »

Why a tank is not needed for 80-85% of dungeons anyway 4 dps can crush most content. Get gud

I agree, DPS classes people need to "get gud" and learn how to tank before they queue up as a tank.

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

Only thing you can do is kick people out who don't do there role. There is nothing Zos can do to fix it, every mmo gas its good and bad players. Making stricter roles, or anything will not fix it. Just kick ppl out. Make sure you tell them why they are being kicked.

Ff14 has a similar problem and it has riged roles. The job is set to the role and is color coded. Still people don't always play the role.

Grandesdar · August 2018

You know what's funny? There have been so many times where a NORMAL DLC dungeon group forms with a fake tank 750cp who's actually a dd, and we fail nonetheless. Im surprised so many people say that tanks are useless. I've also seen people leaving normal DLC dungeons as soon as they realize there's a fake tank. Sometimes the guy himself leaves and then gets replaced with another fake tank and then he leaves after a couple of wipes, blaming our perfectly functional healer.

And this "get good, 85% of dungeons don't need a tank" mentality. I didn't realize we were only talking about base game normal no1 dungeons. If you're so good at soloing them, then go play yourself, stay away from the pugs, you're ruining the experience of other players.

I'm a tank main but I only queue with my friends for randoms, just because. Using my DDs daily random bonus on the other hand is painful.

Why's everyone keep saying there's nothing ZOS can do? They did something after this thread has been opened. Now we can only choose one role. This means less fake roles in a way because they have to pick one and not just go with fill option.

Agenericname · August 2018

Grandesdar wrote: »

Why's everyone keep saying there's nothing ZOS can do? They did something after this thread has been opened. Now we can only choose one role. This means less fake roles in a way because they have to pick one and not just go with fill option.

I agree with your post, except this part. People are doing this because their putting their needs ahead of the groups, being inconsiderate, rude, selfish, whatever you would like to call it. ZoS cant change that. They can establish barriers that make it more difficult, but they cant fix it.

The new system may help, I have hope. It's also speculation at this point for the most part. The majority of the people queuing as multiple roles right now are aware that they're going into the dungeon as a tank most of the time. The new system isnt restricting that, simply how many roles can be chosen.

Initially we may see a decrease, but after the queue times increase, the "me!" crowd will likely drop the false pretense and just queue as a tank. Whether or not anything meaningful comes of this remains to be seen.

A little personal responsibility goes a long way here. It's my game, I'm responsible for enjoying it, I'll find like-minded people to play with.

Alamakot · August 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be.

there's only one solution. play pledges/random dungs with your guildmates as predefined group. there are plenty of nice guilds around.

If we -let say- 2 guys are calling at guild chat and noone is interested in joining (very rare, usually there are more volunters than spots in caller's group) i prefer to go for another activity (plenty of them in game world). must I do pledges every day? no. I can go pvp or thievery/murdering for TG/DB, or fishing, or mats harvesting or...
why to waste time with pugs?

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

Grandesdar wrote: »

Why's everyone keep saying there's nothing ZOS can do? They did something after this thread has been opened. Now we can only choose one role. This means less fake roles in a way because they have to pick one and not just go with fill option.

ff14 has a sticker class as in if you play the class gladiator you are labeled as a tank, with the class icon being blue. there is no picking what role you play. And yet people don't always play the role.

So no there isn't, there are tools in place such as vote kick, and forming your own groups. And it can't be added to the ToS because it would cause hostility in the player base. People would report other for such tiny infractions.

Guppet · August 2018

Alamakot wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be.

there's only one solution. play pledges/random dungs with your guildmates as predefined group. there are plenty of nice guilds around.

If we -let say- 2 guys are calling at guild chat and noone is interested in joining (very rare, usually there are more volunters than spots in caller's group) i prefer to go for another activity (plenty of them in game world). must I do pledges every day? no. I can go pvp or thievery/murdering for TG/DB, or fishing, or mats harvesting or...
why to waste time with pugs?

This is never the solution. The issue is within group finder. Your solution is not to use groupfinder.

Groupfinder exists for those that want to do dungeons with other people without needing to be in a guild or know them for whatever reason. Their reasons are up to them. Thier reasons are every bit as justified as those that want to run in guilds.

Groupfinder needs sorting and I think ZoS are now well aware of people’s issues with what is happening.

Group finder is a required feature in all mmo’s as so many people like to use the feature. If your solution to issues with group finder is saying to not use it, your input is less than pointless.

LiberatorSam · August 2018

People queue as a fake tank cuz a real take can’t carry the group. I have a real tank but when I solo pug I always fake tank it. If I get competant players? Good cuz they don’t need a tank anyway. If I get fake dps? I put the team on my shoulder.

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

Guppet wrote: »

Alamakot wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be.

there's only one solution. play pledges/random dungs with your guildmates as predefined group. there are plenty of nice guilds around.

If we -let say- 2 guys are calling at guild chat and noone is interested in joining (very rare, usually there are more volunters than spots in caller's group) i prefer to go for another activity (plenty of them in game world). must I do pledges every day? no. I can go pvp or thievery/murdering for TG/DB, or fishing, or mats harvesting or...
why to waste time with pugs?

This is never the solution. The issue is within group finder. Your solution is not to use groupfinder.

Groupfinder exists for those that want to do dungeons with other people without needing to be in a guild or know them for whatever reason. Their reasons are up to them. Thier reasons are every bit as justified as those that want to run in guilds.

Groupfinder needs sorting and I think ZoS are now well aware of people’s issues with what is happening.

Group finder is a required feature in all mmo’s as so many people like to use the feature. If your solution to issues with group finder is saying to not use it, your input is less than pointless.

that is the solution, MMO didn't have group finder till 2010s when MMO got older and people spend "less time" on mmo. If you want to play with like minded players, with like minded goals, and play styles you should be forming your own groups. With random group finder you are at the whim of a computer program.

If you read any of my replies you'd know that zos can't fix anything. All they can do is remake the class system to have classes with roles tied to them like ff14. Which i don't see them doing. ff14 had a stricter ridged system, but that doesn't prevent people from playing tank classes and not tanking. All you can do is vote kick out players not playing their role, and forming your own groups.

ramasurinenpreub18_ESO · August 2018

Fake tanks drive me nuts in vets. In normals I couldn't care less. With the exception of a few DLC dungeons everything dies before it's an issue anyway.

I pug a ton of vet dungeons though and every time I end up with a fake tank it's invariably a mess. I recall the exact moment that I'd had enough of them, a particular wayrest 1 vet run where everything ran messily but "ok" up until the final boss, where our "tank" got one-shot about 3 seconds into the pull. Only then did I notice his med armour dw/bow build. "OH, sorry guys, forgot this one needs a real tank." We either had to get our beleagured mag sorc to slot inner fire and just shield/turtle the entire fight to complete it, or abandon the attempt.

Following that encounter I decided to vote kick (something I hate doing) all fake tanks in pug vets on sight. If you want to do that then fine, but do it with your friends/guildies in a premade. Dungeon finder is simply not the place for it.

That said, there are fights where a tank is more of a hindrance than a help. Drodda in Direfrost and most of Fungal 2 come to mind. Each of my four real tanks carries a full set of medium armour dps gear specifically for those situations. They might be the only cases where "fake tanking" is a legitimately helpful strategy, but I still taunt the big stuff.

Qbiken · August 2018

If you kick someone from a random normal because of "fake-roles" without even trying to do the dungeon first, you´re a bigger problem than the ones "faking" their roles. Just saying.....

YamiKuruku · August 2018

LiberatorSam wrote: »

People queue as a fake tank cuz a real take can’t carry the group. I have a real tank but when I solo pug I always fake tank it. If I get competant players? Good cuz they don’t need a tank anyway. If I get fake dps? I put the team on my shoulder.

oh sure
tell that all those light attack spammers (in vet) not even holding their own weight in the group
not all fake tanks carry the group, i wish they would then i wouldnt feel the need to slap them really hard
and then i need to read stuff like "chill its easy" or "faster queue" i mean if they WOULD BE GOOD players then i maybe would ignore it, as i already do in normal but seeing those kevins in vet doing nothing but spamming light attacks and/or dying makes me mad xD

i mean i see your point okay... and i am sure you can carry others but there are alot of newbs that learn from the top players that you can queue as a tank to avoid the waiting time and then they are really bad players...

Guppet · August 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Alamakot wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be.

there's only one solution. play pledges/random dungs with your guildmates as predefined group. there are plenty of nice guilds around.

If we -let say- 2 guys are calling at guild chat and noone is interested in joining (very rare, usually there are more volunters than spots in caller's group) i prefer to go for another activity (plenty of them in game world). must I do pledges every day? no. I can go pvp or thievery/murdering for TG/DB, or fishing, or mats harvesting or...
why to waste time with pugs?

This is never the solution. The issue is within group finder. Your solution is not to use groupfinder.

Groupfinder exists for those that want to do dungeons with other people without needing to be in a guild or know them for whatever reason. Their reasons are up to them. Thier reasons are every bit as justified as those that want to run in guilds.

Groupfinder needs sorting and I think ZoS are now well aware of people’s issues with what is happening.

Group finder is a required feature in all mmo’s as so many people like to use the feature. If your solution to issues with group finder is saying to not use it, your input is less than pointless.

that is the solution, MMO didn't have group finder till 2010s when MMO got older and people spend "less time" on mmo. If you want to play with like minded players, with like minded goals, and play styles you should be forming your own groups. With random group finder you are at the whim of a computer program.

If you read any of my replies you'd know that zos can't fix anything. All they can do is remake the class system to have classes with roles tied to them like ff14. Which i don't see them doing. ff14 had a stricter ridged system, but that doesn't prevent people from playing tank classes and not tanking. All you can do is vote kick out players not playing their role, and forming your own groups.

The feature has been the norm for 8 years throughout the industry even in your reply. So no it’s not the answer not to use it.

Your reply’s are just that, your reply’s, not indisputable facts. They can fix it if they start trying and they need to start trying, not just say “then don’t use group finder”.

Your solution is like saying “if you don’t like standing on a bus drive your car”. It’s just not an option for the people the tool was designed for.

If you have a decent guild that you like to run dungeons with, then the tool was never for you, so your opinions on it are not useful. Your the car driver saying how busses should be run.

It doesn’t matter if you dislike that mmo’s went mainstream, the fact is they did in 2004. So now features have to get more and more pick up friendly. They have tried more oldschool “need to be in a guild” games, they failed.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · August 2018

Agenericname wrote: »

I agree with your post, except this part. People are doing this because their putting their needs ahead of the groups, being inconsiderate, rude, selfish, whatever you would like to call it. ZoS cant change that. They can establish barriers that make it more difficult, but they cant fix it.

There is something called a game master, which they never used, even if announced.
That's some kind of community manager but in-game. It woudln't really take much to have some online. This would also help reducing problems in /zone chats. But of course, until ZOS does not establish some kind of punishment for cheating, little can be done.

K1NGPALM3R1 · August 2018

I have been farming COH for the gear and Llambris page's for a few nights. With the amount of people doing the same I've had 3 More DD's with me. I had a tank which was spamming flurry???? Also a healer with only vigor as our heal on. I see the argument as well with the dungeon finder being a bit slow, Frustrating always having to wait. I feel something should be put in place to ensure the correct roles are loading in. If you're a tank/healer and not the best you've still got to start somewhere.

Neoealth · August 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Right after they do something about the fake DPS I keep seem to be getting as group-mates via the activity finder...

They're not fake, just bad

I agree though, good tanks are hard to come by, and I hate fake tanks.

And tanks are an absolute must for Scalecaller

So you're saying they're failing to adequately pefrom the role they queued for?

Sounds alot like the tanks OP is posting about. I see no difference.

A bad dps and a fake tank are two very different things.

One is an honest person trying to fulfil his/her job to the best of their ability, they may be new and not yet fully understand how best to do this, but they are trying and are actually putting out just enough dps to help get the group through the content.

The other is a dishonest person, who decided to abuse the system and sign up as something they are not, as a result are causing the group major problems, the healer and dps are tanking all the trash, which makes the whole team struggle to fully excel at their roles.

The difference is clear, and I think you know that.

Fake tanks are just impatient players, who don't care if they stress others out and make the game less enjoyable. All for the sake of speeding up the queue time. At least dps who queue as dps and end up being bad dps, have the excuse of just being a l2p issue. What excuse do the fake tanks have? Other than being insufferable impatient expletives.

Qbiken · August 2018

Neoealth wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Right after they do something about the fake DPS I keep seem to be getting as group-mates via the activity finder...

They're not fake, just bad

I agree though, good tanks are hard to come by, and I hate fake tanks.

And tanks are an absolute must for Scalecaller

So you're saying they're failing to adequately pefrom the role they queued for?

Sounds alot like the tanks OP is posting about. I see no difference.

A bad dps and a fake tank are two very different things.

One is an honest person trying to fulfil his/her job to the best of their ability, they may be new and not yet fully understand how best to do this, but they are trying and are actually putting out just enough dps to help get the group through the content.

The other is a dishonest person, who decided to abuse the system and sign up as something they are not, as a result are causing the group major problems, the healer and dps are tanking all the trash, which makes the whole team struggle to fully excel at their roles.

The difference is clear, and I think you know that.

Fake tanks are just impatient players, who don't care if they stress others out and make the game less enjoyable. All for the sake of speeding up the queue time. At least dps who queue as dps and end up being bad dps, that is just a l2p issue.

If I queue as a healer and see that I do more DPS than the actual DD, I will actually label you as a "fake DD" since you´re not fulfilling the role you´re queued as. Same thing if I queue as a DD an end up doing 80-90% of the group healing, then I will label you as a "fake heal" since you´re not fulfilling your role.

But you know what the biggest difference here is? I don´t really care if people queue as a "fake X-role" in random NORMAL dungeons. What matters is that we complete the dungeon within reasonable time (depending on dungeon that can vary). And if someone has a quest they need to complete I´ll wait for them to finish whatever they need to finish.

I use the dungeon finder almost daily to level up certain skillines and undaunted, and while people here seems to make this into the most game breaking issue of ESO´s history, I´ve never meet anyone who´ve complained over someone faking a role.

Heck I´ve queued once to normal Fanglair where no one was queuing for their own role.The tank and heal was 2 DD`s while the DD´s was one tank and a semi-healer (a magicka nightblade using funnel health), was hilarious. The dungeon took longer than expected I will admit that, but over all everything went smooth. Now imagine if everyone in that group started QQ-ing about fake roles and either started to leave the group or force-kick ppl?

Nyladreas · August 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

The only way to fix this would be skill/gear detection and locked skill bars/gear slots after entering queue. Noone will want that and people will still *** up.

DoonerSeraph · August 2018

Soon we will have threads asking to kick Tanks that queue in heavy armor and Sword & Board/Ice Staff because they "slow the completions of dungeons"

Im not sure if that is the message we want to send to the Tank community: "See, in most of dungeon content you're not needed and we would prefer a DPS in your place". Gee, no wonder why there are few tanks

Agenericname · August 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

I agree with your post, except this part. People are doing this because their putting their needs ahead of the groups, being inconsiderate, rude, selfish, whatever you would like to call it. ZoS cant change that. They can establish barriers that make it more difficult, but they cant fix it.

There is something called a game master, which they never used, even if announced.
That's some kind of community manager but in-game. It woudln't really take much to have some online. This would also help reducing problems in /zone chats. But of course, until ZOS does not establish some kind of punishment for cheating, little can be done.

They could work well for zone chats or public dungeons, or any high traffic area. Without knowing where to go they wouldn't be able to help as much. I doubt they'd be effective with this particular issue.

I remember other games having them. They seemed to stay busy all the time. I doubt that they were able to perform the functions they were intended for.

Facefister · August 2018

"When your DPS can't pass the DPS checks with their low DPS, then the DPS is a fake DPS with their low DPS."

Tank
Healer
DD

mikemacon · August 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

If you kick someone from a random normal because of "fake-roles" without even trying to do the dungeon first, you´re a bigger problem than the ones "faking" their roles. Just saying.....

Nope.

I always vote to kick fake tanks because it’s important to not reward selfish behavior. And the only reason someone would queue as a fake tank is because they’re very impressed with themselves and don’t think they should wait in the DD queue.

Just saying.

Qbiken · August 2018

mikemacon wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

If you kick someone from a random normal because of "fake-roles" without even trying to do the dungeon first, you´re a bigger problem than the ones "faking" their roles. Just saying.....

Nope.

I always vote to kick fake tanks because it’s important to not reward selfish behavior. And the only reason someone would queue as a fake tank is because they’re very impressed with themselves and don’t think they should wait in the DD queue.

Just saying.

You might want to step down from that moral high-ground of yours before hurting yourself....

It´s a game and I play because it´s fun, not to teach people about how to use their moral compass. I can tell you from experience that kicking someone from a group causes way more toxicity than wiping in a dungeon because someone "faked" their roles.

The only selfish thing in these discussions are the people believing they´re entitled to having everyone else playing by their moral rules (aka everyone must play their roles 100% or I will kick you). There´s nothing selfish about queuing for a random normal or any normal dungeon as a "fake-role" (note that I don´t think you should queue for a role you can´t fulfil in veteran dungeons, those are a completely other thing). Everyone has their reasons why they do it. Some people might do it to hopefully get some gear they´re missing, another one might just want to get that daily bonus reward and some extra exp to level up a skill or two. A third person might be levelling some undaunted skilline, and a last player might just having some role-play session on his/her character using very weird builds while being a role they´re not.

Who am I to judge why people queue as a role they´re not? I´ve my reasons, they´ve theirs, and kicking people just because they don´t fit into your mentality of how the game should be played is selfish if anything.

K1NGPALM3R1 · August 2018

Normal random are not to bad for any fake role as they are pretty straight forward. But I think most vet require specific roles. It's frustrating without the correct roles but it can be done.