Fear and Ruge Cage double standard - Fear should get the treatment too

Feanor · August 2018

Sorc OP. NB needs buff. Forum axiom.

zParallaxz · August 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Yeah, I think Fear should also have a 40m range & deal 9-10k tooltip damage if someone doesn't break free from it. Oh, and give it a 1s delay before the CC actually applies so that I can guaranteed land Assassin's Will with it.

What’s really funny is malefic wreath used to do that lol.

DDuke · August 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Yeah, I think Fear should also have a 40m range & deal 9-10k tooltip damage if someone doesn't break free from it. Oh, and give it a 1s delay before the CC actually applies so that I can guaranteed land Assassin's Will with it.

What’s really funny is malefic wreath used to do that lol.

Well, with the small difference of a 1s cast time on it & that damage being a DoT rather than instant. And the stun was instant if I recall correctly, not with 1s delay.

But other than that, yes - pretty much the same.

Funny thing is... even with cast time etc the skill was used in some builds as part of a Meteor combo - that's just the power of long range unavoidable CCs.

Silver_Strider · August 2018

helios777 wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Yeah, I think Fear should also have a 40m range & deal 9-10k tooltip damage if someone doesn't break free from it. Oh, and give it a 1s delay before the CC actually applies so that I can guaranteed land Assassin's Will with it.

Yeah I think Rune Cage should also be barely visible bugged as hell AoE hard CC that when stun ends apply additionally 50% snare and minor maim. Oh and give it a passive that applies major resistances buffs when used so it's no longer needed to have skill that does that which saves skill slot and resources.

Get real...

Rune cage heals you when you hit with it and gives you minor intellect giving you spell crit via passives. Give me rune cage and Ill give you fear

Ahem Fear gives you major buffs to spell resist and armor, and applies minor maim target. Way better than healing you for like 800 in Cyro and giving you 3% spell crit.......

You conveniently left out the passive increase to your Spell Damage for just slotting Rune Cage.

So let's compare Fear and Rune Cage FULLY.

Fear gives Major Resistances for a few seconds (~7 seconds) gives you 3% more health for slotting, applies Minor Maim and snares enemies while being in melee range.

Rune Cage does damage, increases your Spell Damage and Crit, heals for an insignificant amount and is ranged.

Of the 2, Rune Cage is by far the more offensive skill since it buffs your damage on all fronts while also being at a distance whereas Fear offers purely defensive buffs which are needed to survive in the melee restriction of its effect.

Beardimus · August 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Yeah, I think Fear should also have a 40m range & deal 9-10k tooltip damage if someone doesn't break free from it. Oh, and give it a 1s delay before the CC actually applies so that I can guaranteed land Assassin's Will with it.

Seriously man, so now you defend FEAR a skill everyone agrees is broken for as long as its been about. Wow. Just wow.

I'll be glad when rune cage is nerfed so the 10k tooltip quotes can stop. I'm sure they will be directed elsewhere tho lol

Beardimus · August 2018

helios777 wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Yeah, I think Fear should also have a 40m range & deal 9-10k tooltip damage if someone doesn't break free from it. Oh, and give it a 1s delay before the CC actually applies so that I can guaranteed land Assassin's Will with it.

Yeah I think Rune Cage should also be barely visible bugged as hell AoE hard CC that when stun ends apply additionally 50% snare and minor maim. Oh and give it a passive that applies major resistances buffs when used so it's no longer needed to have skill that does that which saves skill slot and resources.

Get real...

Rune cage heals you when you hit with it and gives you minor intellect giving you spell crit via passives. Give me rune cage and Ill give you fear

Ahem Fear gives you major buffs to spell resist and armor, and applies minor maim target. Way better than healing you for like 800 in Cyro and giving you 3% spell crit.......

Spot on!

Beardimus · August 2018

RANKK7 wrote: »

Oh I see the big circus started with clowns, dancers and all, good, the more the better.

I main a magplar and I wish both fear and rune cage would go for the most basic reason many people is pissed off about them and there is no need to pose as an expert to state a fact:

they are both broken skills being too hard to break free.

Since these skills both present the same issue ZOS doesn't seem able to fix, they better check them both.

And this is what I would like to achieve with this thread, remind them to check about this issue and if not able to fix it, give treatment to both.

Hope it's clear, ain't nobody got time for the circus, my message is to ZOS and I think it' pretty simple and clear, if this game can't handle CC being half of the time unbreakable, then check them, not only one.

Spot on.

Unbiased and totally correct. Actual Bust stuff should not be bust. Fear has been broken for a long time, and if it takes rune cage buff to nerf to get fear sorted then that's a good thing!

DDuke · August 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Yeah, I think Fear should also have a 40m range & deal 9-10k tooltip damage if someone doesn't break free from it. Oh, and give it a 1s delay before the CC actually applies so that I can guaranteed land Assassin's Will with it.

Seriously man, so now you defend FEAR a skill everyone agrees is broken for as long as its been about. Wow. Just wow.

I'll be glad when rune cage is nerfed so the 10k tooltip quotes can stop. I'm sure they will be directed elsewhere tho lol

I don't even use Fear, haven't for years. Just pointing out some stark differences between the two abilities (yes, I would use it if it was as strong as Rune Cage - everyone would lol).

If you're curious as to why: it doesn't guarantee a single point of damage will land on target, compared to Rune Cage which guarantees the entire freaking burst combo lands.

Waffennacht · August 2018

When I read "if I could reliably break free..."

Are you sure you can't?

You do know CC break requires a GCD? There is no "instant" break free. There is always a GCD with the break free.

So, I think you can reliably break free, you also are forced into taking damage.

Now if you're against the GCD, well then we agree, break free should be like block and circumvent GCDs.

Nothing is more annoying than being killed because of the break free GCD.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2018

The better comparison is fossilize not fear. With the proposed changes, fossilize will be a stronger skill than rune cage. Hard CC that goes through stun and block, which is follows by a soft CC. It’s a double attack on your Stam pool. The mechanic requires you to CC break and then immediately dodgeroll, which is frankly absurd.

RC will effectively be a dodgeable ranged stun at this point, and you know they are going to overdue the telegraph they are talking about giving it. The damage will be absolutely meaningless as anyone who lets the stun run its full duration is dead either way.

Typical ZOS. They buff a skill one patch, and the next it ends up weaker than it was in the first place.

Ragnaroek93 · August 2018

The major difference is that magsorc has a lot of delayed burst (nb hasn't) which can be forced to hit with such a CC. Imo they should make defensive rune the base skill and let one morph apply something like maim on the target while letting the other morph stuns the next 3 opponents who attack you in the next 8 seconds. Would still be a good skill but it would have counterplay to the uncounterable burst which everyone is complaining about.

ExcaliburESO · August 2018

You shouldn't have that cc in first place since u copy pasted a dk cc already don't touch skills that got nerfed 3 times and exist here since the beginning not like half ur class that had added skills from time to time just to become God tier.

Jeezye · August 2018

LOL. fear is so inconsistent most magblades don't even slot it anymore and rather spamm clench. It has an awkward radius, has been nerfed to only hit 2 instead of 4 targets, requires you to be in the heat of the action to land and costs a *** ton of magicka. I can't believe you actually want to nerf this skill xD

If all its the break free animation and visual indication that you are affected that should be changend, but the underlying mechanics are more than fine.

mr_wazzabi · August 2018

RANKK7 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Yeah, I think Fear should also have a 40m range & deal 9-10k tooltip damage if someone doesn't break free from it.

Yeah, I think I don't usually play naked to get 9-10k tooltip damage from rune cage.
And the range is the only anti ganker counter, it's also compensated in Fear by the fact you are moving around like a fool which can cause other sort of trouble, like nullifying healing from earthgore or the aoe an healer is trying to put on you.

You know the running around during fear sometimes works against the nb right? Countless times when I'm snared the feared enemy runs away from me and I need to wasted a gap close to catch up. Wasting 1 gcd on a gapclose is enough to save his life.

Sometimes he's feared and runs towards his zerg, right in the path of friendly hots.

Double standard is right.

Fear is melee, so it needs to have some edge over rune cage. Run cage is still broken despite the nerfs.

Try being any stam class. When your health is a bit low, your best defense is to dodge roll. Guess what? Rune cage can pull you out of dodge roll and kill you. Also endless fury is op as it's also undodgeable and a guaranteed high damage execute. I've been blown up countless times in mid dodge roll animation. It's sickening.

Pijng · August 2018

jaws343 wrote: »

Pijng wrote: »

Fear isn't range cc, and it doesn't deal dmg. I think it's ok.

Nightblades can sneak up on you and use fear without you even knowing they are there, and at that point, the range is irrelevant because the nightblade is already directly on top of you. At least with Rune Cage you have the opportunity to see your enemy before being thrown into a buggy CC.

Uhm...sorry, but lol! What's the point of such an action? It doesn't make sense at all. So what that nb is gonna do next? Well, I guess incap? And... and that's it. It wont kill you – just break free and heal. BUT if nb will charge his merciless proc and THEN do fear + incap + bow proc combo, then it make sense. But in the last scenario you already know that nb is there, right in front of you c:

Your case sounds freaky, cause you can say:
"Nightblade can sneak up on you and use destro reach without you even knowing they are there"
"Nightblade can sneak up on you and use DBoS without you even knowing they are there"
"Nightblade can sneak up on you and use reverb bash without you even knowing they are there"

etc.
// Nerf cloak!!!

Maryal · August 2018

jaws343 wrote: »

Pijng wrote: »

Fear isn't range cc, and it doesn't deal dmg. I think it's ok.

Nightblades can sneak up on you and use fear without you even knowing they are there, and at that point, the range is irrelevant because the nightblade is already directly on top of you. At least with Rune Cage you have the opportunity to see your enemy before being thrown into a buggy CC.

What if I want to be the one 'on top'? Oh wait! I am a NB ... whahoo! I am the one on top!

Galarthor · August 2018

Yeah, these double standards are really annoying. Fear has been an issue for years now and ZOS never addressed it, because they don't want to upset their pet stamblades.

Forums are just run by stamblades. Look how many there are complaining about a skill that works just as their own, which they consider to be perfectly fine. If ZOS made Rune Cage blockable but kept in undodgeable they would still be here whining.
They are still upset that they can't one-shot people from stealth anymore. Took ZOS ages to address the proc sets issue b/c they didn't want to upset their pets.

olsborg wrote: »

Make fear work from 41m aswell then we can talk about that..

No problem. But we will have to take away NBs gap closers then. Oh and make sure it only stuns 1 target!

DDuke wrote: »

Yeah, I think Fear should also have a 40m range & deal 9-10k tooltip damage if someone doesn't break free from it.

9k-10k tool tip that translates into around 1.5k actual damage dealt. Take your 1.5k damage and give me Minor Maim and a 50% slow. But I bet if they switch the secondary effects on Fear and Rune Cage the forums would be full of stamblades complaining how OP it was for an unblockable and undodgeable hard CC to also apply Minor Maim and 50% slow. Stamblade are and always have been the biggest crybabies and hypocrites in this game.

technohic · August 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

Yeah, these double standards are really annoying. Fear has been an issue for years now and ZOS never addressed it, because they don't want to upset their pet stamblades.

Forums are just run by stamblades. Look how many there are complaining about a skill that works just as their own, which they consider to be perfectly fine. If ZOS made Rune Cage blockable but kept in undodgeable they would still be here whining.
They are still upset that they can't one-shot people from stealth anymore. Took ZOS ages to address the proc sets issue b/c they didn't want to upset their pets.

olsborg wrote: »

Make fear work from 41m aswell then we can talk about that..

No problem. But we will have to take away NBs gap closers then. Oh and make sure it only stuns 1 target!

DDuke wrote: »

Yeah, I think Fear should also have a 40m range & deal 9-10k tooltip damage if someone doesn't break free from it.

9k-10k tool tip that translates into around 1.5k actual damage dealt. Take your 1.5k damage and give me Minor Maim and a 50% slow. But I bet if they switch the secondary effects on Fear and Rune Cage the forums would be full of stamblades complaining how OP it was for an unblockable and undodgeable hard CC to also apply Minor Maim and 50% slow. Stamblade are and always have been the biggest crybabies and hypocrites in this game.

Forums are indeed ran by NBs AND mag sorcs. Because balance has not really changed to be much other classes being top outside of them since DK vampires near launch outside of a brief stamden affair . A lot have rerolled when that looks to be the permanent top 2 in Cyrodiil

jcasini222ub17_ESO · August 2018

@ZOS_RichLambert I rarely ever tag. Truly. The fixes and directions of the game are pretty interesting.

When it comes to skills like rune cage/fear the CC system is broken. I know you PvP and probably experience the same. I'm a temp main, I can break free of jav mid air, same with a dizzy swing and get out of fossilize no problem.

Rune cage/fear work differently. Break free is often unresponsive. No matter the "fixes" as long as the CC system works so poorly with these skills there will always be complaints and a lot of resentment.

I can't tell you the numerous times I've been at full stamina only to be locked in a rune cage, then if the server grants me a break free it grants the spamming I've done. 39k stamina sometimes gets halfed, and my health pool already has dropped big time. So it's game over once the cage gets cast.

There isn't functioning counterplay because of the CC system. It really takes a lot of the fun out of combat. Just really hoping something is being done about the entire CC system.

CurvedSwords123 · August 2018

Fear is more tactical as you have to get in their to use it, also I don't get that annoying cc break delay from it. Not an NB, and I think fear is fine.

Kilandros · August 2018

Comparing a 40m ability to 8m abilities seems legit

bardx86 · August 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

The better comparison is fossilize not fear. With the proposed changes, fossilize will be a stronger skill than rune cage. Hard CC that goes through stun and block, which is follows by a soft CC. It’s a double attack on your Stam pool. The mechanic requires you to CC break and then immediately dodgeroll, which is frankly absurd.

RC will effectively be a dodgeable ranged stun at this point, and you know they are going to overdue the telegraph they are talking about giving it. The damage will be absolutely meaningless as anyone who lets the stun run its full duration is dead either way.

Typical ZOS. They buff a skill one patch, and the next it ends up weaker than it was in the first place.

Its dam disappointing. We actually start moving in the right direction to once again be nerf to place worst that prior patches.

Maryal · August 2018

NBs aren't the only ones that can sneak. In fact, EVERYONE can sneak. It's easy, just crouch.
If you want to get close to someone without them seeing you, pop an invisibility potion.

If you want extra damage, hit them from behind (sneak up on them with or without an invis potion) and wear an armor set that gives damage bonus when you deal damage from stealth or invisibility. Heck, there is even the Flanking Armor set (no stealth/invisibility required, just hit them from behind). Bump things up a notch by also slotting Camo Hunter, DB, and/or a mage's guild skill and use it (mage light or volcanic rune for example) BUT max out the MG passive 'might of the guild.' Heck, you could cast volcanic rune on a target that is standing still ... as soon as they move they pop in the air and when they land you hit them with your combo. If you don't like that, cast the rune underneath yourself before you hit your target with your combo - all you really want is to cast a mages guild skill to enable might of the guild for the extra 20% damage. Oh, BTW, a benefit to casting volcanic rune underneath yourself is that anyone who sneaks up on you will pop into the air (unless they are cc immune).

These (above) are just a few examples, there are sooooo many more - the point being anyone / any class can be stealthy, be invisible, score extra damage when attacking from stealth/invisibility (or from behind).

You do know that NBs aren't the only ones that can fear. When the changes to WW go live, NB's 'fear' will pale in comparison to WW's 'fear'. Fear is also available from the Fighter's Guild (circle of protection morph: 'turn undead'). Fear is also available from the Undaunted skill line (trapping webs morph: 'entangling webs' ... need to activate the synergy for the fear).

DeadlyRecluse · August 2018

I think that removing unblockable+undodgeable CC in general would be a good design decision: have some CC be unblockable, and other CC be undodgeable, but not both. Having both attributes leads to some overloaded skills, imo.

Hixtory · August 2018

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I think that removing unblockable+undodgeable CC in general would be a good design decision: have some CC be unblockable, and other CC be undodgeable, but not both. Having both attributes leads to some overloaded skills, imo.

So the game would be dominated by the speed abusing stamina toons. Right now is hard to hit those players, and with this you are making it so the rest will have no counterplay. And no, I don't like to have to slot 2 to 4 skills to be able to hit a player.

Tasear · August 2018

/Lurk

#ClassRepsAreListeningandLurking

Galarthor · August 2018

technohic wrote: »

Forums are indeed ran by NBs AND mag sorcs. Because balance has not really changed to be much other classes being top outside of them since DK vampires near launch outside of a brief stamden affair . A lot have rerolled when that looks to be the permanent top 2 in Cyrodiil

That's not quite true.
Stamblades have always been on the top of the food chain. And probably always will be given how ZOS is balancing. Just look at how Rune Cage and Sloads changes were made to cater to Stamblades while ignoring the plight of the rest of us.

MagSorcs haven't been on top all the time. There were times, but there were also other times. For example, during the almost never-ending proc set meta before they nerf the proc sets after aeons. Sorcs were pretty much at the bottom of the food chain. This was then followed by a long period where sorcs were somewhere in the middle. Only recently have sorcs become a top contender again.

Note, that I am speaking from a PvP perspective. In PvE it was a different story. But by the looks of it we are most talking from a PvP persective.

The whole game is designed to favor Stamblades:

1) Their main defensive tool does not suffer from reduce efficiency in non-CP (it always mitigates 100%). Everybody else suffers from reduced efficiency, either by having lower heals, shields, or resistances.

2) They get their very own CP to reduce the cost of their main defensive tool. No one else gets such a treat except for blockers (that's why we got the perma blocking meta, a similar but different issue). Allowing them to sustain much longer.

3) They get their very own Armor Trait to help them rofl (roll) even more. Again, no one else gets such a treat except for blockers (that's why we got the perma blocking meta, a similar but different issue).

If you combine the Armor Trait and the CP they can rofl roll indefinitely. And remember, they throw in a cloak every now and then to reset the the increasing cost counter. No other class or stamina build has this luxury!

4) They don't have to waste CPs to get their main defensive tool adjusted to the increased damage in the CP-environment. 0% of 100000000 damage is still 0 damage taken. This allows them to stack higher into the other defensive CPs, reaching mitigation levels others cannot.

5) Now with Summerset they were even given immense speed. They are so fast that you have trouble hitting them at all. Especially when they run circles around you. Sure you could try to run or streak away, but you are always only 1 gap closer away and you cann't keep up with their speed or sustain it for nearly as long as they can. Remember their personal armor trait also reduces the cost of sprinting.

6) You think they had any real trouble with Rune Cage-Meteor combo? The whole thing is a ruse! They can just cloak when the meteor is telegraphed and block right before it hits. Since they are invisble the Rune Cage won'T hit them. And even when they become visible when they start blocking. Rune Cage is on a delay, so it will only hit them AFTER the meteor, which they were then able to block.

7) Fear has been broken for ages. It far outperforms Rune Cage as it got more and more powerful secondary effects and NBs got sure ways to deliver it via cloak and gap closer(countering their "it's doesn't have a 40m rage arguement) ... those gankers are in melee range anyways. They only stamblades not in melee range are the bow-gankers. But they got their own CC that reliably hits b/c they are attacking from stealth. They are also not build for prolonged engagements, so if the gank fails they vanish. There is no interest here to fight an enemy. As such, there is also no need for a CC to keep the enemy at range in such a fight.

8) They also got the best gap openers in the game: cloak and shades - especially the shades as they allow them to move through objects and in 3 dimensions, completely obliterating line of sight. And afterwards, they can just cloak. In a 1on1 it is almost impossible to catch them. B/c if they run and you give chase then they will just port to their shade which is in the opposite direct (and probably behind an obstacle) so they will be out of reach and out of line of sight. Alternatively, you could decide to stay at the shade (in case you find it). But in that case they will just continue running away from you untill they are out of reach and line of sight. No other class has such powerful escaping tools.

The list goes on, but this post is getting too long.

Ranger209 · August 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Yeah, I think Fear should also have a 40m range & deal 9-10k tooltip damage if someone doesn't break free from it. Oh, and give it a 1s delay before the CC actually applies so that I can guaranteed land Assassin's Will with it.

And it shouldn't maim or snare and only fear 1 target. I would rather get feared at 40 meters than 8 for sure.

technohic · August 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Forums are indeed ran by NBs AND mag sorcs. Because balance has not really changed to be much other classes being top outside of them since DK vampires near launch outside of a brief stamden affair . A lot have rerolled when that looks to be the permanent top 2 in Cyrodiil

That's not quite true.
Stamblades have always been on the top of the food chain. And probably always will be given how ZOS is balancing. Just look at how Rune Cage and Sloads changes were made to cater to Stamblades while ignoring the plight of the rest of us.

MagSorcs haven't been on top all the time. There were times, but there were also other times. For example, during the almost never-ending proc set meta before they nerf the proc sets after aeons. Sorcs were pretty much at the bottom of the food chain. This was then followed by a long period where sorcs were somewhere in the middle. Only recently have sorcs become a top contender again.

Note, that I am speaking from a PvP perspective. In PvE it was a different story. But by the looks of it we are most talking from a PvP persective.

The whole game is designed to favor Stamblades:

1) Their main defensive tool does not suffer from reduce efficiency in non-CP (it always mitigates 100%). Everybody else suffers from reduced efficiency, either by having lower heals, shields, or resistances.

2) They get their very own CP to reduce the cost of their main defensive tool. No one else gets such a treat except for blockers (that's why we got the perma blocking meta, a similar but different issue). Allowing them to sustain much longer.

3) They get their very own Armor Trait to help them rofl (roll) even more. Again, no one else gets such a treat except for blockers (that's why we got the perma blocking meta, a similar but different issue).

If you combine the Armor Trait and the CP they can rofl roll indefinitely. And remember, they throw in a cloak every now and then to reset the the increasing cost counter. No other class or stamina build has this luxury!

4) They don't have to waste CPs to get their main defensive tool adjusted to the increased damage in the CP-environment. 0% of 100000000 damage is still 0 damage taken. This allows them to stack higher into the other defensive CPs, reaching mitigation levels others cannot.

5) Now with Summerset they were even given immense speed. They are so fast that you have trouble hitting them at all. Especially when they run circles around you. Sure you could try to run or streak away, but you are always only 1 gap closer away and you cann't keep up with their speed or sustain it for nearly as long as they can. Remember their personal armor trait also reduces the cost of sprinting.

6) You think they had any real trouble with Rune Cage-Meteor combo? The whole thing is a ruse! They can just cloak when the meteor is telegraphed and block right before it hits. Since they are invisble the Rune Cage won'T hit them. And even when they become visible when they start blocking. Rune Cage is on a delay, so it will only hit them AFTER the meteor, which they were then able to block.

7) Fear has been broken for ages. It far outperforms Rune Cage as it got more and more powerful secondary effects and NBs got sure ways to deliver it via cloak and gap closer(countering their "it's doesn't have a 40m rage arguement) ... those gankers are in melee range anyways. They only stamblades not in melee range are the bow-gankers. But they got their own CC that reliably hits b/c they are attacking from stealth. They are also not build for prolonged engagements, so if the gank fails they vanish. There is no interest here to fight an enemy. As such, there is also no need for a CC to keep the enemy at range in such a fight.

8) They also got the best gap openers in the game: cloak and shades - especially the shades as they allow them to move through objects and in 3 dimensions, completely obliterating line of sight. And afterwards, they can just cloak. In a 1on1 it is almost impossible to catch them. B/c if they run and you give chase then they will just port to their shade which is in the opposite direct (and probably behind an obstacle) so they will be out of reach and out of line of sight. Alternatively, you could decide to stay at the shade (in case you find it). But in that case they will just continue running away from you untill they are out of reach and line of sight. No other class has such powerful escaping tools.

The list goes on, but this post is getting too long.

I think you only think sorc was middle of the pack because you only compare them to stamblade. And half of what you mention is really from stam and medium armor which NBs are just the easiest to pull it off with.

There’s 3 other classes who I think will never feel bad for where sorcs are at in comparison to NBs

Lord-Otto · August 2018

technohic wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Forums are indeed ran by NBs AND mag sorcs. Because balance has not really changed to be much other classes being top outside of them since DK vampires near launch outside of a brief stamden affair . A lot have rerolled when that looks to be the permanent top 2 in Cyrodiil

That's not quite true.
Stamblades have always been on the top of the food chain. And probably always will be given how ZOS is balancing. Just look at how Rune Cage and Sloads changes were made to cater to Stamblades while ignoring the plight of the rest of us.

MagSorcs haven't been on top all the time. There were times, but there were also other times. For example, during the almost never-ending proc set meta before they nerf the proc sets after aeons. Sorcs were pretty much at the bottom of the food chain. This was then followed by a long period where sorcs were somewhere in the middle. Only recently have sorcs become a top contender again.

Note, that I am speaking from a PvP perspective. In PvE it was a different story. But by the looks of it we are most talking from a PvP persective.

The whole game is designed to favor Stamblades:

1) Their main defensive tool does not suffer from reduce efficiency in non-CP (it always mitigates 100%). Everybody else suffers from reduced efficiency, either by having lower heals, shields, or resistances.

2) They get their very own CP to reduce the cost of their main defensive tool. No one else gets such a treat except for blockers (that's why we got the perma blocking meta, a similar but different issue). Allowing them to sustain much longer.

3) They get their very own Armor Trait to help them rofl (roll) even more. Again, no one else gets such a treat except for blockers (that's why we got the perma blocking meta, a similar but different issue).

If you combine the Armor Trait and the CP they can rofl roll indefinitely. And remember, they throw in a cloak every now and then to reset the the increasing cost counter. No other class or stamina build has this luxury!

4) They don't have to waste CPs to get their main defensive tool adjusted to the increased damage in the CP-environment. 0% of 100000000 damage is still 0 damage taken. This allows them to stack higher into the other defensive CPs, reaching mitigation levels others cannot.

5) Now with Summerset they were even given immense speed. They are so fast that you have trouble hitting them at all. Especially when they run circles around you. Sure you could try to run or streak away, but you are always only 1 gap closer away and you cann't keep up with their speed or sustain it for nearly as long as they can. Remember their personal armor trait also reduces the cost of sprinting.

6) You think they had any real trouble with Rune Cage-Meteor combo? The whole thing is a ruse! They can just cloak when the meteor is telegraphed and block right before it hits. Since they are invisble the Rune Cage won'T hit them. And even when they become visible when they start blocking. Rune Cage is on a delay, so it will only hit them AFTER the meteor, which they were then able to block.

7) Fear has been broken for ages. It far outperforms Rune Cage as it got more and more powerful secondary effects and NBs got sure ways to deliver it via cloak and gap closer(countering their "it's doesn't have a 40m rage arguement) ... those gankers are in melee range anyways. They only stamblades not in melee range are the bow-gankers. But they got their own CC that reliably hits b/c they are attacking from stealth. They are also not build for prolonged engagements, so if the gank fails they vanish. There is no interest here to fight an enemy. As such, there is also no need for a CC to keep the enemy at range in such a fight.

8) They also got the best gap openers in the game: cloak and shades - especially the shades as they allow them to move through objects and in 3 dimensions, completely obliterating line of sight. And afterwards, they can just cloak. In a 1on1 it is almost impossible to catch them. B/c if they run and you give chase then they will just port to their shade which is in the opposite direct (and probably behind an obstacle) so they will be out of reach and out of line of sight. Alternatively, you could decide to stay at the shade (in case you find it). But in that case they will just continue running away from you untill they are out of reach and line of sight. No other class has such powerful escaping tools.

The list goes on, but this post is getting too long.

I think you only think sorc was middle of the pack because you only compare them to stamblade. And half of what you mention is really from stam and medium armor which NBs are just the easiest to pull it off with.

There’s 3 other classes who I think will never feel bad for where sorcs are at in comparison to NBs

True. But keep in mind, Templars can buff a whole group. Neither sorcs nor nightblades have that degree of group utility. It is fair, if annoying, that a Temp would have weaker neutral play therefore.
Mag DKs rule duels and own vampires. I am a vampire and have no sympathy for them. Stam DKs, on the other hand, yeah...
Wardens are tricky. They may lack global utility, but they can still have a high burst and a lot of buffs.

Really, I would only place stam DK in low tier. Wardens in lower mid-tier, mag DK in the middle, sorcs and temps higher mid-tier (after new changes). NBs have NEVER left high-tier since Imperial City, when d-pots got nerfed. You know, Shieldbreaker and Sload's are perfectly fine, but d-pots had to be nerfed. Oh right! Sload's DID get nerfed, exclusively for NB's Cloak!

P.S.: I refuse to acknowledge the existence of stam sorcs. They'd be low-tier, if they existed, though.