Is shield breaker balanced?

The_Protagonist · July 2018

Yes

For heavens sake GiT GuD scrub!

It only procs on active shields, unlike sloads that procs on anything.

The_Protagonist · July 2018

Yes

Minalan wrote: »

It should probably proc on heavy attacks, light is a bit too much.

We already have Knight Slayer, we don't need a stamina flavor of the same set, SB is good as it is and I don't see it often enough, I think I should start running it the moment I see Mag characters with shields.

Feanor · July 2018

No

The_Protagonist wrote: »

For heavens sake GiT GuD scrub!

It only procs on active shields, unlike sloads that procs on anything.

That’s like saying “just stop healing” to someone who thinks defile is too strong.

Toc de Malsvi · July 2018

As amazing as Shieldbreaker supposedly is versus Sorcerers, I still see a ton of sorcerers wrecking both BG's and Cyrodiil. You would think this OP Shildbreaker set would have made them all quit or reroll by now.

Unfadingsilence · July 2018

Yes

100% it comes down to L2P end of story and that's coming from someone who plays PVP in this game with over 70k kills and about to have two 5 stars it's been in the game since IC learn to adapt and stop shield stacking and put pressure on the person who's hitting you with baby light attacks.

Nicko_Lps · July 2018

No

Astrid_V wrote: »

Let me guess, you play a magsorc

So, you as a mNB never use a shield?

Zelos wrote: »

It counters, a counterless shieldstacker playstyle not that there is anything wrong with relying on shields. There is counter play to shieldbreaker, rapid regen which I see alot of shield stackers use for sustain with maelstrom resto staff.

The counterplay to shieldbreaker for magsorcs is not rapid regen.
Since youre amazingly sharing your opinions with us i will inform you that a magsorc CANNOT shield stack vs stamblade like you.

You think that magsorcs shieldstack vs a stamblade...
Astrid as a magblade never uses shields and considers shieldbreaker fine...

WHATS WRONG WITH THESE FORUM NIGHTBLADES? LOL

oxygen_thief · July 2018

Yes

sorc can avoid light attacks by dodging and using ball of lighting so it is pretty balanced i think

Beardimus · July 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Obviously not. But the nerf Sorc brigade will flood this thread like its predecessors and claim it’s needed because they can’t kill shield users. It’s a sad display of crutches.

Spot on. To be honnest if the scrubs still can't kill Sorcs and need to run this set the whole time to handle them, we'll let em bless em. Tragic.

Beardimus · July 2018

Minalan wrote: »

It should probably proc on heavy attacks, light is a bit too much.

Aye, the only annoyance is the at range bow light attack spammers relying on it. Again tho they unlikely to be much of a threat solo proccing that and Sloads

Juhasow · July 2018

I think this pool results would be the same if question would be "Is PvP magsorc balanced ? "

Biro123 · July 2018

No

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

If spriggarns and spinners instead did 3.2k oblivion damage per sec on non-shielded targets, would it be balanced?

There is one important difference.

Non-shield targets would also take regular damage to their healthbars as well. Shieldbreaker only damages yours when regular damage can't.

Not really. Every build has defences (except yours maybe?). Every stam build has 2 strong hots running, either very strong mitigation or very strong avoidance (all have a bit of both). And a smattering of class-specific defences.. purge, cloak, minor protection, wings etc..

They use their health at as their buffer. Yes it will move, but not by much and it quickly recovers.
Shield users use their shields as that buffer instead. Their strength moves quickly. Very quickly, and requires cast-times to recover. Under that, there is low health, with no mitigation or crit resists that disappears in a single cool down and takes an age to recover.

Remove block, dodge, vigour and any armour mitigation over 10k from a stam toon, then you may use that argument.

callen4492 · July 2018

Yes

kikkehs wrote: »

callen4492 wrote: »

How can you say it’s not balanced?!?!

Oh I know why, it’s because you’re a magsorc and it’s designed as a counter to you specifically. (Same as sloads although Sloads counters every other build out there. Not for long though suckaz, hahaha! Hope you didn’t gold out your sloads, hahaha. Time to hang your sload up in the trophy case, hahaha!)

I digress. It’s certainly balanced because of what you have to give up just to get the 5th piece shieldbreaker bonus.

Honestly, the fact that ZoS’ response to OP shield stacking is to create an individual set to counter shield stacking is bonkers. If the statistics and the community agree that shield stacking is OP, nerf all damage shields by a small amount... say %2. That’s small enough that it’s not going to break magsorcs as a whole, but it’s big enough that it’s going to have a substantial overall effect. If they’re still overpowered, nerf them by another %2 until they are at a good place. Honestly, ZOS makes something so simple oh so difficult at times. Let’s get more common sense balance changes.

On another note, if magsorcs are having a tougher time dealing with zergs because of shieldbreaker, BOOHOOHOO! I have no sympathy for you. Welcome to every other class.

This shows the true anti-sorc bias most people on these forums have.

@kikkehs I definitely do not have an anti-sorc bias, hahaha. I play a magsorc often and know how strong it is and how many tools they have in their belt.

If there is a anti-sorc bias among players on the forums, it isn’t because we just have an instinctive hate against sorcs. IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE CERTAINLY THE MOST OP CLASS RIGHT NOW. The fact that so many people think so just proves that. Don’t act like we’re doing something wrong by pointing out that sorcs are op. Smh.

You are wrong though if you’re complaining to the extent of saying that the game is unplayable for any other class because of how strong sorcs are, or how strong some set is. (Deathmatch is pretty unplayable as a non-magsorc, haha.) The difference to overcome is not that great.

callen4492 · July 2018

Yes

Biro123 wrote: »

If spriggarns and spinners instead did 3.2k oblivion damage per sec on non-shielded targets, would it be balanced?

If you think yes, then you're in a good place to think shieldbreaker is balanced.

@Biro123

Where are you getting these numbers sir? 3.2k damage per second? Spriggans and Spinners effectively reduce your opponents resistances, which reduces their damage mitigation by about 5% I think... It has nothing to do with a flat number of damage per second. I’m just confused by the point you’re trying to make.

That is also not at all what shieldbreaker does. It does 2.2k damage when you land a light or heavy attack on a shielded opponent. VERY DIFFERENT than doing 3.2k damage per second magically.

Trinotops · July 2018

Yes

brandonv516 wrote: »

Procs off light and heavy attacks.

Direct damage would be those two things AND a lot more.

I completely forgot that light and heavies are considered direct damage. I'm thinking of something like caluurion's where it procs off of direct damage abilites, but even then I guess that might create issues with skills like curse, PoTL, or maybe even force pulse depending on how the change would be implemented.

callen4492 · July 2018

Yes

Please, is there a vote for it being underpowered?

Haha, really, what good player actually uses shieldbreaker? IT’S NOT A GOOD SET. IT’S JUST A TROLL MAGSORCS SET because ZoS knows deep down in their hearts that shield stacking is OP but they don’t really want to deal with the issue.

I find it funny that there are zerglings out ther who would actually use that set. Totally useless against anybody but a shield-stacking sorc. Not even a shield using mageblade because if they ever happened to encounter someone using shieldbreaker they would just stealth out and think to themselves, “Phew, that was a close call. I can’t believe somebody was actually using shieldbreaker. I’ll avoid that single zergling now.”

huschdeguddzje · July 2018

Yes

It's very situational, you use only few people using it

BohnT · July 2018

No

callen4492 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

If spriggarns and spinners instead did 3.2k oblivion damage per sec on non-shielded targets, would it be balanced?

If you think yes, then you're in a good place to think shieldbreaker is balanced.

@Biro123

Where are you getting these numbers sir? 3.2k damage per second? Spriggans and Spinners effectively reduce your opponents resistances, which reduces their damage mitigation by about 5% I think... It has nothing to do with a flat number of damage per second. I’m just confused by the point you’re trying to make.

That is also not at all what shieldbreaker does. It does 2.2k damage when you land a light or heavy attack on a shielded opponent. VERY DIFFERENT than doing 3.2k damage per second magically.

Shieldbreaker on Gold value deals 2100 oblivion damage, the cooldown on bow and resto light attacks is 0.6 seconds.

2100 oblivion damage /0.6 seconds = 3500 oblivion damage/s

If you'd find a target that is shielded all the time (any good magsorc) and you just use light attacks with shieldbreaker, it will deal 3.5 oblivion damage per second.

If anyone thinks that's balanced look at these comparisons:

- Sloads adds 853 dps at best
- the average DPS of a top duel build is ~3-4k damage with all skills
- the average HPS of vigor without defiles is 2k
- the average HPS of a stamina build is 3k without defiles
- the average HPS of rapid regen is 1.1k without defiles
- master dualwield adds only ~500 dps

I challenge every single one of you in this post to create a Magsorc on the pts and duel me there.
And get ready to hear L2P when you die.

frostz417 · July 2018

Yes

Bunch of sorc cry babies in here mad that there counters to their cancerous constant shield spam.

Nicko_Lps · July 2018

No

frostz417 wrote: »

Bunch of sorc cry babies in here mad that there counters to their cancerous constant shield spam.

At least sorc crybabies dont need a XXXX oblivion damage LA set to get you outskilled

That set would not be existing if all the other classes where NERF THAT SORC though, so clearly is not magsorcs who whine and above all magblades get rekt by shieldbreaker as well, just in case you dont know ^^

Kikke · July 2018

No

callen4492 wrote: »

Please, is there a vote for it being underpowered?

Haha, really, what good player actually uses shieldbreaker? IT’S NOT A GOOD SET. IT’S JUST A TROLL MAGSORCS SET because ZoS knows deep down in their hearts that shield stacking is OP but they don’t really want to deal with the issue.

I find it funny that there are zerglings out ther who would actually use that set. Totally useless against anybody but a shield-stacking sorc. Not even a shield using mageblade because if they ever happened to encounter someone using shieldbreaker they would just stealth out and think to themselves, “Phew, that was a close call. I can’t believe somebody was actually using shieldbreaker. I’ll avoid that single zergling now.”

Again, shows the true anti-sorc bias on these forums, and no. Just because you have a sorc somewere on your list leveled up does not mean you play sorc. Get out of here with your obvious bias?

Beardimus · July 2018

frostz417 wrote: »

Bunch of sorc cry babies in here mad that there counters to their cancerous constant shield spam.

Lol I'm a sorc and I'm saying bring it on. You wanna run around Cyrodiil wearing this set in case a nasty sorc crosses your path be my guess. And let all the other classes batter you.

It's a bad player crutch pure and simple.

Kikke · July 2018

No

So just too understand this. Every class (NBs, DKs, Templars and wardens) are allowed to cry about sets that helps zergbads kill them, and crying that said sets is OP.

But if there is a set out there for the sole reason too make zergbads be able too defeat a WHOLE class and we are not allowed to say it's overperforming? realy?

frostz417 · July 2018

Yes

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Bunch of sorc cry babies in here mad that there counters to their cancerous constant shield spam.

At least sorc crybabies dont need a XXXX oblivion damage LA set to get you outskilled
That set would not be existing if all the other classes where NERF THAT SORC though, so clearly is not magsorcs who whine and above all magblades get rekt by shieldbreaker as well, just in case you dont know ^^

Yea cuz all you do is spam your 3 different shields constantly and hit a rune cage no skill wombo combo and they can kill anyone who isn’t a tanky build. Magsorcs are thumbless. Magblades can atleast play without shields to an extent. They don’t required constantly 3 shield spamming per rotation like sorcs do.

The_Protagonist · July 2018

Yes

This set is so situational, that it should remain in your bag until you find a naive sorc that is simply shield stacking for defense. A regen set or even a defensive set is far more useful than this.

SB becomes useless as soon as shields drop, you loose the 5th piece bonus, I always look at the set but never acquired it, but should I looking at this poll I am inclined to test it out.

technohic · July 2018

No

Always bias on both sides when it comes to sorcs. I disliked Jerry the set because it’s a skill les hard counter that yes; favors zerglings spamming light attacks. It’s similar to radiant destruction spammers where we all know there’s a bad behind it. Dangerous otherwise because the sorc could nuke the guy faster than they could kill the sorc outside of a Zerg.

On the other side, I’ve seen some awesome sorcs throughout the life of this game but there has always been far more zergling sorcs and all they do is sit there spamming rune cage these days waiting for their combo. I’d probably be that type if I ran my sorc more because I’m not good at it but I’m thinking most won’t admit that’s the level of sorc they are.

In the end; I think stacking shields is a bit strong but a set specifically for that is too much just like resource poisoning which also is a bit too much for everyone is cover ups for real issues rather than balanced.

Sharee · July 2018

Yes

BohnT wrote: »

- the average DPS of a top duel build is ~3-4k damage with all skills

You make it sound like 3-4k DPS is the maximum achievable in this game. Tell that to the medium armor build whose 25K HP just got deleted in 1-2 seconds by a rune cage/meteor combo.

Even under the most ideal conditions(3500 DPS) it takes shieldbreaker over 7 seconds of continuous fire to remove all HP from a 25K bar(and thats if the attacker does nothing else except spam bow light attacks). By that time, any competent sorc would either have killed the 25K HP attacker(twice over, probably), or bolted to safety(its not hard to outrange a bow attacker who was likely at max bow range to begin with).

BohnT · July 2018

No

Sharee wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

- the average DPS of a top duel build is ~3-4k damage with all skills

You make it sound like 3-4k DPS is the maximum achievable in this game. Tell that to the medium armor build whose 25K HP just got deleted in 1-2 seconds by a rune cage/meteor combo.

Even under the most ideal conditions(3500 DPS) it takes shieldbreaker over 7 seconds of continuous fire to remove all HP from a 25K bar(and thats if the attacker does nothing else except spam bow light attacks). By that time, any competent sorc would either have killed the 25K HP attacker(twice over, probably), or bolted to safety(its not hard to outrange a bow attacker who was likely at max bow range to begin with).

my offer stands, make a sorc on the pts and duel me, Show me how you want to fight me

Nicko_Lps · July 2018

No

frostz417 wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Bunch of sorc cry babies in here mad that there counters to their cancerous constant shield spam.

At least sorc crybabies dont need a XXXX oblivion damage LA set to get you outskilled
That set would not be existing if all the other classes where NERF THAT SORC though, so clearly is not magsorcs who whine and above all magblades get rekt by shieldbreaker as well, just in case you dont know ^^

Yea cuz all you do is spam your 3 different shields constantly and hit a rune cage no skill wombo combo and they can kill anyone who isn’t a tanky build. Magsorcs are thumbless. Magblades can atleast play without shields to an extent. They don’t required constantly 3 shield spamming per rotation like sorcs do.

I always use 1 shield vs stamina and 2 shields vs magica. I dont know about the others but i cant shieldstack vs staminators cuz simply ill go OoM.

You really need to learn how a magsorc works around, i can imagine why you have issues with them while you think that sorcs actually SPAM resto wards.

A magblade has several defensives and alot of healing but still cannot survive VS a good player without shields, a sorc without a shield dies in 2 sec, but not vs non L2P scenarios that whine on the forums. Shieldbreaker was being created for non L2P guys that love to spam light attacks + win AND to come defend it on forums after because its their main AP source.

Sharee · July 2018

Yes

BohnT wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

- the average DPS of a top duel build is ~3-4k damage with all skills

You make it sound like 3-4k DPS is the maximum achievable in this game. Tell that to the medium armor build whose 25K HP just got deleted in 1-2 seconds by a rune cage/meteor combo.

Even under the most ideal conditions(3500 DPS) it takes shieldbreaker over 7 seconds of continuous fire to remove all HP from a 25K bar(and thats if the attacker does nothing else except spam bow light attacks). By that time, any competent sorc would either have killed the 25K HP attacker(twice over, probably), or bolted to safety(its not hard to outrange a bow attacker who was likely at max bow range to begin with).

my offer stands, make a sorc on the pts and duel me, Show me how you want to fight me

And what's that supposed to prove? That a sorc can not kill a light attacking opponent in 7 seconds? What's next? Duelling to prove the pope is catholic?

Luckily we don't need such folly, as there are plenty of examples of sorcerer killing speed. Take this one: first point of damage taken at 0:07, dead at 0:08:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEzSDS5yWqI&feature=youtu.be&t=4s

SilverWF · July 2018

Yes

Sharee wrote: »

Luckily we don't need such folly, as there are plenty of examples of sorcerer killing speed. Take this one: first point of damage taken at 0:07, dead at 0:08:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEzSDS5yWqI&feature=youtu.be&t=4s

Well, the same as at interval 0:05-0:06, right?