Of course you can't nerf the current setup without some form of compensation. Although I don't think it necessarily has to be a ground DoT, AoE DoTs like Carve and Blade Cloak could work as well. If those were more on par to Endless Hail, we could already see more variety.
No, just no. This way stamina dds will loose their only way to do decend ranged dps. Endless hail and caltrops as ground aoes can be placed while playing the mechanics. Replace them with cleave aoes and stamina dds will loose even more dps on non static fights.
Huh? Nobody's taking anything away from you just because there are other viable alternatives to Endless Hail.
Of course you can't nerf the current setup without some form of compensation. Although I don't think it necessarily has to be a ground DoT, AoE DoTs like Carve and Blade Cloak could work as well. If those were more on par to Endless Hail, we could already see more variety.
No, just no. This way stamina dds will loose their only way to do decend ranged dps. Endless hail and caltrops as ground aoes can be placed while playing the mechanics. Replace them with cleave aoes and stamina dds will loose even more dps on non static fights.
Huh? Nobody's taking anything away from you just because there are other viable alternatives to Endless Hail.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Of course you can't nerf the current setup without some form of compensation. Although I don't think it necessarily has to be a ground DoT, AoE DoTs like Carve and Blade Cloak could work as well. If those were more on par to Endless Hail, we could already see more variety.
No, just no. This way stamina dds will loose their only way to do decend ranged dps. Endless hail and caltrops as ground aoes can be placed while playing the mechanics. Replace them with cleave aoes and stamina dds will loose even more dps on non static fights.
Huh? Nobody's taking anything away from you just because there are other viable alternatives to Endless Hail.
Viable alternatives to hail you say? Like what?
Of course you can't nerf the current setup without some form of compensation. Although I don't think it necessarily has to be a ground DoT, AoE DoTs like Carve and Blade Cloak could work as well. If those were more on par to Endless Hail, we could already see more variety.
No, just no. This way stamina dds will loose their only way to do decend ranged dps. Endless hail and caltrops as ground aoes can be placed while playing the mechanics. Replace them with cleave aoes and stamina dds will loose even more dps on non static fights.
Huh? Nobody's taking anything away from you just because there are other viable alternatives to Endless Hail.
Buff to carve/blade cloak --> overall dps increases --> nerf tp overall dps --> same as now (but carve/blade cloaks is a more important part of DPS) --> stam looses more DPS when going ranged
I wanted to offer my perspective here as someone who has wanted to play melee dps during progression in vet trials for the past six months or so, but who has been (mostly) unable to.
With the release of Asylum Sanctorum, we saw a trial that was exclusively ranged dps only for the hardest form of the trial. There was just no reasonable way for anyone to play melee and do nearly as well as they would with ranged dps. Since my main is a StamDK, progression was painful, and the eventual solution was myself (and others) rerolling a magblade or magsorc.
After about 8 hours of experience in Vet Cloudrest, I'm seeing the same pattern emerge. Although ranged isn't required to clear this trial, ranged has a clear advantage and would be preferred in all situations for every single boss. The vast majority of the mechanics aside from a few (stack mechanic on one of the bosses) largely prefers ranged, and even this mechanic can be solved by a ranged stack, which could even be preferable due to sets like Master Architect.
Just a few other mechanics off of the top of my head:
- Bosses teleporting from one side of the arena to another consistently throughout the fight. This happens on every encounter.
- Crystals that need to be destroyed spread out to the very edges of the arenas. This also happens during every encounter. This mechanic is time sensitive strongly prefers ranged dps due to being forced out of melee range on the final boss during a certain mechanic. As melee, you're limited to light attacking with your bow during this time.
- Shades that spawn on a group member death. Doesn't sound so bad, right? Wrong. They teleport around 25-30m+ constantly, preferring ranged dps.
- Synergies that have to be activated in a certain period of time which can spawn all around the arena. Melee dps is unlikely to be anywhere near these and cannot maintain good dps even if they were to keep the boss in focus while traveling to them to activate. Ranged does not have this problem.
I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting and I'm sure these mechanics will be even more punishing while choosing to fight multiple bosses at once instead of attempting a regular vet clear.
These wouldn't seem too bad if melee had some kind of other advantage, like higher dps while in melee than ranged, but currently on PTS the highest parsing classes are ranged magicka dps. Where is the incentive to play melee at all? Melee is worse at mechanics, has worse or equal dps when in melee, and is punished by mechanics that seem like they were implemented to do one thing--to punish melee dps. There is no other good reason for a boss to decide to teleport from one side of the arena to the other and then run back other than to limit damage on that boss while it is moving.
This isn't only bad class design, it's bad raid design. Melee needs a niche that they can fill, like ranged has had since the release of vAS. If things remain as they are, I will likely be playing my magblade I created for vAS+2 even though I would prefer to play my StamDK.
RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »1) Duel Wield is the only competitive main-bar setup for PvE StamDPS. There shouldn't be a damage difference between the different Stam weapon skill lines, the difference should be the play-style. For the most part, StamDPS has the same rotation, bar a few class skills. If I want to focus less on DOTs with Duel Wield, and more on smacking the boss with my Two Handed sword, I should be able to do so with little damage difference if I setup my build properly.
2) Bow is the only competitive off-bar setup for PvE StamDPS. Going through the same back-bar rotation on every class is kind of dull. There should be sufficient reason to slot any Stam weapon as a backbar weapon without damage loss. This goes back to the play-style point made in #1.
Effectively, there's only one weapon setup play-stlye that will yield competitive results, and that's Duel Wield/Bow. Having any combination of the Stam weapons (Two Handed, One Hand and Shield, Bow, and Duel Wield) should yield competitive results. There's no reason there should be a damage difference if each setup is built for properly.
RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »1) Duel Wield is the only competitive main-bar setup for PvE StamDPS. There shouldn't be a damage difference between the different Stam weapon skill lines, the difference should be the play-style. For the most part, StamDPS has the same rotation, bar a few class skills. If I want to focus less on DOTs with Duel Wield, and more on smacking the boss with my Two Handed sword, I should be able to do so with little damage difference if I setup my build properly.
2) Bow is the only competitive off-bar setup for PvE StamDPS. Going through the same back-bar rotation on every class is kind of dull. There should be sufficient reason to slot any Stam weapon as a backbar weapon without damage loss. This goes back to the play-style point made in #1.
Effectively, there's only one weapon setup play-stlye that will yield competitive results, and that's Duel Wield/Bow. Having any combination of the Stam weapons (Two Handed, One Hand and Shield, Bow, and Duel Wield) should yield competitive results. There's no reason there should be a damage difference if each setup is built for properly.
Littlebluelizard wrote: »Ice/Cold damage needs to be looked at. At the moment, it does not function as a good source of DPS when compared to Shock or Fire. And no, it is not a good source of Minor Maim for a tank, which was the goal when they made the change to Ice Staves. Tanks already have Talons, Thurvokun and Heroic Slash as a source of Minor Maim. Chilled should apply another debuff, or make it similar to burning where you have better DPS. Then you have another problem, you don't have a "Engulfing Flames" for ice, or a 20% increased damage when enemis are chilled (Blockade of Fire). Ice Staves ATM are just a detriment for your DPS and a noob trap.
Stamina is too stationary in PvE: They suffer a lot when a fight requires mobility, due to the fact that a lot of their damage come from Endless Hail. If we compare both Endless and Elemental Blockade, we will see that Endless costs more and covers a smaller area overall (5m radius, really??). To be clear on the issue: Stamina DPS depends too much on Endless Hail and that's a problem. They need to transfer a bit of the power from Hail to other sources. Light Attacks, for example, could be a alternative. It would make sense in terms of balance to have Melee LA/HA deal more damage than Ranged ones. It's the classic high risk/high reward design that stamina is (or supposed to be).
Khivas_Carrick wrote: »RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »1) Duel Wield is the only competitive main-bar setup for PvE StamDPS. There shouldn't be a damage difference between the different Stam weapon skill lines, the difference should be the play-style. For the most part, StamDPS has the same rotation, bar a few class skills. If I want to focus less on DOTs with Duel Wield, and more on smacking the boss with my Two Handed sword, I should be able to do so with little damage difference if I setup my build properly.
2) Bow is the only competitive off-bar setup for PvE StamDPS. Going through the same back-bar rotation on every class is kind of dull. There should be sufficient reason to slot any Stam weapon as a backbar weapon without damage loss. This goes back to the play-style point made in #1.
Effectively, there's only one weapon setup play-stlye that will yield competitive results, and that's Duel Wield/Bow. Having any combination of the Stam weapons (Two Handed, One Hand and Shield, Bow, and Duel Wield) should yield competitive results. There's no reason there should be a damage difference if each setup is built for properly.
Oh look a necro.
Oh look, 2H needs love.
RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »Khivas_Carrick wrote: »RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »1) Duel Wield is the only competitive main-bar setup for PvE StamDPS. There shouldn't be a damage difference between the different Stam weapon skill lines, the difference should be the play-style. For the most part, StamDPS has the same rotation, bar a few class skills. If I want to focus less on DOTs with Duel Wield, and more on smacking the boss with my Two Handed sword, I should be able to do so with little damage difference if I setup my build properly.
2) Bow is the only competitive off-bar setup for PvE StamDPS. Going through the same back-bar rotation on every class is kind of dull. There should be sufficient reason to slot any Stam weapon as a backbar weapon without damage loss. This goes back to the play-style point made in #1.
Effectively, there's only one weapon setup play-stlye that will yield competitive results, and that's Duel Wield/Bow. Having any combination of the Stam weapons (Two Handed, One Hand and Shield, Bow, and Duel Wield) should yield competitive results. There's no reason there should be a damage difference if each setup is built for properly.
Oh look a necro.
Oh look, 2H needs love.
I'm not saying 2H needs love.
I'm saying for stam dps 1H&S/Bow, 1H&S/2H, 1H&S/DW, 1H&S/1H&S Bow/Bow, Bow/2H, 2H/2H, and DW/DW needs love.
DW/Bow has basically been the only stam meta ever, it's getting old for me. I'd like for a change of pace without massively gimping myself.
barbarian340 wrote: »Bow/bow should be viable in all content
Umm, it may not be endless hail that's the problem ... the real problem is the decision to use it in a highly mobile pve fight. Endless Hail is an excellent skill in the right situation ... but it's not excellent in every situation. The good news is that once someone has figured this out, they usually stop using Endless Hail in mobile fights ... in other words, they figured out that Endless Hail is not a 'one-size-fits-all' skill. It takes some people longer than others to figure this out ... but that's not a an 'Endless Hail' problem.