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[Class Rep] DPS Feedback Thread

  • aeowulf
    aeowulf
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    psxfloh wrote: »
    imho DPSing requires too much training to be really good at, making the gap between top and bottom dps too wide.

    Of course a perfect rotation should be better than doing nothing but light attacks or spamming 1-2 abilities, but a semi-perfect rotation, or missing a light attack here and there should not be that far from the top like it currently is.

    For example, I cast my DoTs, weave light attacks, cast 1-3 spammables, and repeat... and I am still only doing half the dps of what others are capable of with the same class/skill/gear combination. I'd expect or would be happy with 75-85% of what they do.. but only 50%?! Come on, it's still a game, not some kind of professional eSport.

    In oder to bring top and bottom closer together you might consider:
    - drastically lower light attack dmg so it's only a small loss when you miss a weave.
    - drastically increase buff and DoT duration and make less ground based DoTs, so you don't have to reapply them as often
    - better align DoT and buff durations in favor of more static (vs dynamic) rotations
    - improve the visualization of buff and debuff durations (on all platforms)

    yeah, agree with this. There is not enough diminishing returns with DPS. By the time all the % boosts (and i'm including unquantifiable things like player skill here) get aligned they multiply with each other DPS can just goes through the roof.

    I kinda feel a bit guilty when I blast through a dungeon past some folks 'taking their time', I remember how I felt when I was levelling and people were doing it to me :( Definitely wasn't nice.
    Edited by aeowulf on July 26, 2018 4:40PM
  • Vahrokh
    Vahrokh
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    I don't understand the logic behind the fact that the same class who are the absolute kings in PvP, have also to be in PvE.
    Anyone else who even comes close, gets swiftly nerfed back into submission.

    Furthermore, I don't understand why in PvE, magblades do so much better DPS than magsorcs.
    They share the same benefits (range) of the sorcs, but without the downsides (pets, occupying 2 bars, causing all sorts of issues with trial mechanics and so on).
    No, the "but they have a more difficult gameplay" has been disproven by famous (and now ZOS employee) Gilliamtherogue. He posted a video of his magblade using a fixed rotation doing more DPS than a magsorc using dynamic rotation.

    Last but not least, the "play as you want" idea, should not just be empty talk, but should allow mag and stam *anything* to be competitive at PvE DPS. Not just NBs and mag sorcs.
    Edited by Vahrokh on July 26, 2018 7:56PM
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    Magblade doesn't need or really deserve any nerfs - but it's going to get gutted because it's simply easier to knock magblade down a few rungs than it is to rebalance content so that unshielded range or melee aren't at the mercy of lag and rng.
    0331
    0602
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    we really should be able to use any weapon for magicka or stamina and not be gimped...for magicka builds, staves are the ONLY option...but i want to be able to use a 2h and bow with my sorc and not be trash

    ^Weapon combinations should affect the flair and style not drastically change performance.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    New to the forums, and wanted to join in part to give a few thoughts in these threads as part of the perhaps under-represented non-min/maxing crowd. The two biggest challenges I see when trying to do a damage dealer role in ESO are:
    • How abilities are classified is confusing and unclear, especially for damage dealing abilities. What I'm referring to here are things like whether or not an ability is "direct damage" or "damage over time" - things that impact how an ability is impacted by champion points and whether or not it triggers a proc set. I sometimes find myself asking "okay, is this skill going to trigger this proc set or not?" Improving the tooltips in the description of abilities would really help with this. Maybe even have something in the CP interface that lists the skills on your current class that are boosted by a particular star?
    • The gap between the DPS floor and the DPS ceiling is painful and soul crushing. Once upon a time, I thought I was a good damage dealer. Then I learned about people pulling what to me are almost unbelievable damage values. I'm discouraged from playing a damage dealer role at all because of this, as I know I will never pull those numbers. I'm glad that the company so far has not extensively catered to the min-max crowd and ruined the game for the rest of us, but it's painful that things like 40k+ dps exist in the first place.
  • SugaComa
    SugaComa
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    You want to make the ceiling and floor closer it's simple

    Give light attacks a fixed damage no matter what the source, they cost zero resources so should have a fixed damage numbers say 300hp

    Next heavy attacks make them double the hp of light attacks but return zero resources instead they give a give a fixed increase in regen
    Also have it so poisons are only procced on light n heavy attacks not skills and only a percentage of the time means they're still of use but not going to set set DPS so high for those who struggle to weave

    Light n heavy attacks become more a utility than DPS


    Next all weapons are given a power crystals

    Equipping the right power crystals means that the damage and the regen they do can be selected
    So a staff could return stam and a sword could return magic

    Closing the DPS gap this way does two things ... Makes content more readily available to all, promotes greater teamwork and synergised teams to achieve those higher accolades

    The game stops becoming a DPS measuring contest and instead becomes a team work contest
  • Shinshadow
    Shinshadow
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    Get rid of the extra 8 meters on sniping skills with the Battle Spirit passive in PvP. That alone makes Elder Stave. . . I mean Elder Snipers. . . I mean, Elder SCROLLS Online too campy and favored for range. If you want to keep them, at least give melee a buff in damage when less than 5 meters or something just so it's a risk/reward mechanic like you always talk about on ESO Live. :):):)
  • Faint_One
    Faint_One
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    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Ranged stam dps (bow/bow) should add value to a raid group

    it works well,I deal around 45~60k dps in most case
    I only think it lack a way to resist incoming damage,or you easy to die..
  • StamWhipCultist
    StamWhipCultist
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    Since heavy attacks received nerf, sDK PvE damage output is not as impressive as it could be. Maybe a slight buff to igneous weapons could be nice.

    I would like to suggest that 40% bonust to heavy attacks that we have on molten armaments become 20% buff to light attacks, and that igneous weapons get that 40% heavy attack damage tied to it. That way both styles (light attack weave and heavy attack weave) can be performed on a DK, with heavy attacks as beginner difficulty rotations, and light attack weave as advanced DD skill rotations.
  • mixedd
    mixedd
    Soul Shriven
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Ranged stam dps (bow/bow) should add value to a raid group

    +1 about ranged stam builds(bow/bow), would like to see some love for bow weapons as main hand, and not classified them as "support" backbar only like it is now.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    As it's the theme of the day for my grumblings.

    My current biggest pain point is the shift towards light attack weaving as a core DPS mechanic (especially on Nightblade).
    I understand and respect that some people want to play this way and it is a superior way of playing, however myself and some others end up with finger strain from this play style.
    I would love to see alternate options to light attack weaves as builds. Medium and Heavy weave builds being viable in some form just requiring different sets and play styles.

    Which brings me on to pain point #2 which is all DD builds feel the same now. Throw down AoE/DoTs, switch bar, weave your spam skill, repeat.
    I know the game has always been somewhat this, but more and more skills have been changed to make everything just feel the same but look different.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • smashcats
    smashcats
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    I dont want to be forced to light attack between every single ability to have "acceptable" dps in pve
  • XZS2JHub17_ESO
    XZS2JHub17_ESO
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    1. Ice dps isn't a thing.
    2. Dual Bow dps isn't a thing.
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    I want to be able to light attack between every single ability to have "acceptable" dps in pve. ^^

    (In other words: we need balancing of racial passives. Redguard meta isn't just in the heads, it's a real, palpable advantage in sustain that puts serious pressure on those people who still care about their 'R' in RPG. I'd rather all races be able to sustain as well, but, knowing ZOS, they'll just make us all heavy attack in the end.)
  • fojo82
    fojo82
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    1- Bow Builds. We have wanted them for a long time. Every class should be able to use a bow for main dps that is viable. If snipe could act like c-frag where a morph makes it instant cast and cost less, that could make an awesome archer feeling build.

    2- Resource sustain, I miss it.
  • Andele
    Andele
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    1. Ice dps isn't a thing.
    2. Dual Bow dps isn't a thing.

    3. Pure melee/Bowless doesnt seem to be a thing (11-16% stamina damage is entirely endless hail)

    4. Please LOT more/heavier playstyle build defining 5 slot sets (crit+attack speed speed like blood moon, heavy attack sergeant, etc) over "x% to buff DPS by y because z that can occur once every few seconds".


    However im a casual pleb only jumping into ESO from time to time for some fun.
  • grizzly375
    grizzly375
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    I've been playing a fairly short time, but I couldn't agree more on the INSANE gap between DPS floor and ceiling. I run trials with several guilds, and, using the same gear, race, build, and skills as guildies, I'm pulling about 50% of their DPS on a good run. The comment above that this is a game, not a competitive e-sport, is spot on - because you have to do everything PERFECTLY to get anywhere near "good" DPS - especially as a Stam type toon. There have been tons of suggestions on how to fix this - but the impact of light attack weaving seems to be the biggest culprit - especially when tied to light-attack-intensive "meta" sets (Relequins) and skills (imbued weapon)...

    My second pain point is lack of viable build diversity in a game that's supposed to be "play any way you want to." As many have pointed out, for Stam DPS, your backbar is pretty well set, with the exception of possibly adding one class skill. Front bar is nearly always 1-2 class skills and the rest weapon skills (except the darlling of the universe Stamblade). Other classes need good enough class skills to make Rending and Blade Cloak not required.

    I'd LOVE to make a 2-handed DK Nord using mostly DK skills and have it be worth bringing into a trial...
  • Grynnyl
    Grynnyl
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    How is any STAM DPS supposed to pass up Endless Hail? An AoE DoT that ticks every half second for 10 seconds? If there is any melee weapon skill that comes close to this, I don't know what it is. That one skill dictates so much of a DPS build that it's laughable.
    ...For Within the Circle of His Sword, There Is Each Man a King...
  • swirve
    swirve
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    Split this into NB and everyone else...
  • Chaos2088
    Chaos2088
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    Ice DPS viable enough for end game content needs to be a thing...please.
    @Chaos2088 PC EU Server | AD-PvP
  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    1) Stamina DPS Variety is still needed it seems; 2H is closer to DW but still needs love. Bows need A LOT of love, like make it a primary weapon type love. Endless Hail is either too strong or other DoTs are too weak. Make all weapon combos competitively viable.

    2) Ice Mage DPS Matters/NotAllCyromancers (want to be tanks)

    3) Speaking of Mages, NotAllMages (use staves) (meaning find a way to make Battle Mages and Spellswords a real thing again.

    4) Racial variety and skills need balancing as you may have already noticed.

    These four points are not necessarily my views, merely the views summarized and reflected in this thread.
    Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
  • Rust_in_Peace
    Rust_in_Peace
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    All stamina dps builds feel the exact same because they all use the same weapons and weapon skills.

    eg. bow and dual wield with poison injection, endless hail, steel tornado and rending slashes is where all stamina dps comes from. the class you pick basically just feels like some minor flavor to an otherwise identical experience.
  • Shantu
    Shantu
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    Max DPS is tied to the endless, tedious rehearsal of finger gymnastics using LA weaving and animation canceling. Regardless of how many times you insult people with the "git gud" comment, most people simply cannot master the technique. This leaves those people with the reality that most end game content will be beyond their reach to enjoy. They also frequently end up being stigmatized in a very negative way. While you can't blame guilds with DPS requirements or avoid the fact that some people are just jerks, the complexity of max DSP mechanics are a real pain.
  • XiDiabolismiX
    XiDiabolismiX
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    Shantu wrote: »
    Max DPS is tied to the endless, tedious rehearsal of finger gymnastics using LA weaving and animation canceling. Regardless of how many times you insult people with the "git gud" comment, most people simply cannot master the technique. This leaves those people with the reality that most end game content will be beyond their reach to enjoy. They also frequently end up being stigmatized in a very negative way. While you can't blame guilds with DPS requirements or avoid the fact that some people are just jerks, the complexity of max DSP mechanics are a real pain.

    No doubt, which is why it’s important that people actively seek out friends and guilds that are like-minded and have somewhat of the same understanding depending on ones playstyle.

    Just because someone can’t min/max their dps doesn’t mean they should be critiqued on it, and at the same time, those who can shouldn’t be as well.

    This is an mmo. Social interactions dictate your overall experience with the world.
    Edited by XiDiabolismiX on January 18, 2019 8:59PM
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