[Class Rep] DPS Feedback Thread

ZOS_GinaBruno

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the DPS role. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

casparian

The trial design of the last two trials heavily penalizes melee DPS. There are multiple mechanics that strongly favor (a) staying highly mobile and (b) staying far away from enemies. Contrast this design to, say, certain boss fights in vMOL, where ranged DPS have one way of performing mechanics and mitigating damage and melee DPS have another. The new design is tough for those classes and builds (magplar, magDK, all stam builds) that are designed around the assumption that they will be able to stay put for extended periods of time and stay in melee range for the vast majority of the fight. For this reason, successful vAS+2 and vCR+2 teams are typically more or less completely ranged DPS teams. Chill out with the anti-melee trials mechanics, please.

joshfong

casparian wrote: »

The trial design of the last two trials heavily penalizes melee DPS. There are multiple mechanics that strongly favor (a) staying highly mobile and (b) staying far away from enemies. Contrast this design to, say, certain boss fights in vMOL, where ranged DPS have one way of performing mechanics and mitigating damage and melee DPS have another. The new design is tough for those classes and builds (magplar, magDK, all stam builds) that are designed around the assumption that they will be able to stay put for extended periods of time and stay in melee range for the vast majority of the fight. For this reason, successful vAS+2 and vCR+2 teams are typically more or less completely ranged DPS teams. Chill out with the anti-melee trials mechanics, please.

I couldn't agree more. I personally main a magsorc, so I'm ranged most of the time, but Asylum and Cloudrest have killed most of my desire to raid because of how non-diverse the raid groups can be. It's not fun. I don't like the idea of an entire dps class being completely locked out of progressing with a raid group just because they're melee.

Gilvoth

we nightblades are not able to stealth properly, we are WAY too easily pulled out of stealth and cannot cast invisibility for long enough periods. i wish we should have our stealth increased. it angers me that we cannot stealth like we need to and that we so easily are pulled out of stealth.

it angers me that we cannot sneak fast in stealth.
right now we have an ability to sneak but it simply feels like we are crawling in mud while we are sneaking, we need to be able to Get Out of harm way while in sneak and right now it is Way too slow in sneak speeds.

NyassaV

There are too many ways for bad players to be powerful in PvP

There aren't enough ways for bad players to be powerful in PvE

casparian

NyassaV wrote: »

There are too many ways for bad players to be powerful in PvP

There aren't enough ways for bad players to be powerful in PvE

That's...very well said. +1

JobooAGS

Ranged stam dps (bow/bow) should add value to a raid group

f047ys3v3n

Light attacks are too touchy. The miliseconds between one not going off and one becoming a useless low damage no resource medium is way to short. There needs to be a comfortable, like .5 instead of .23 second window as even lag right now is enough delay to prevent clean light weaves (in the case of channeled staves this often results in attack animation with no attack at all). This is really important.

You should also probably try to figure out what to do with that whole medium attack thing that basically does no damage and literally gives no resources.

Caff32

1. Bring back some sustain. The nerfs to sustain went way too far. Somewhere between where they were and where they are would make the game far more fun.
2. Make Khajiit Great Again

ATreeGnome

I strongly agree about the trend of new trials heavily punishing melee DPS, I don't want to see this in future trials.The other pain point is the gap in DPS potential between the weakest and strongest classes.

Gallagher563

1: Champion Points need to be frozen or reverted to say 300. Power creep just increases the gap between top players and everyone else. Let us revert excess CP into skill points or something useful.

2: Lack of diversity in trials with Magicka dominant in new trials. Only a few classes are used in end game and everyone runs infirno staffs on magicka characters. I would like to see lightning and ice staffs bring additional utility to group. Make ice staff dps weapon again.

GrumpyDuckling

1) This whole game is overly-obsessed with DPS. If you look at tanks and healers, their whole purpose (most of the time) is to buff the DPS and wear sets that increase team DPS. It would be great to see more mechanics/teamwork situations rather than just damage being the overwhelming priority.

2) New/inexperienced players put teams at such a disadvantage if they are slotted in the DPS roles. Again, the game is too obsessed with DPS to the point where not enough of it just makes some content unplayable.

Solariken

NyassaV wrote: »

There are too many ways for bad players to be powerful in PvP

There aren't enough ways for bad players to be powerful in PvE

This ^

And also,

The Morrowind sustain nerfs went WAY too far and cut too deep. Un-nerf character/class/armor passives/abilities and re-nerf the Champion System and armor sets.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

It has to be said, and I am absolutely not trolling.

You should probably ignore almost all PVE related DPS “issues”. The main issue with PVE DPS issues is the bar is constantly moving. Maybe a year ago you could do some dungeon in 60 minutes and through practice you got it down to 45. Then a nerf comes and now it’s an hour and 15. Sure, that is annoying but the content is still completable. But ... then comes the forum raging and some of those nerfs are altered in the following patch to allow you to feel awesome again ... great! But it’s not great because now people in Cyrodiil can blink and make you explode from 41 yards away.

Long story short, I fully support addressing DPS issues, but use PvP as your template not PvE. If you can achieve near-balance in Cyrodiil the PVE community will figure out how to make it work. They always do.

dowinterfor6

PVE: Stamdps needs more stamina based class damage abilities. Almost every class runs the same back bar, and front bars are extremely similar. (E.g back bar: injection, hail, utility, trap, caltrops, front bar: rending, blade cloak)

PVP: Almost all class utility skills are magicka based, forcing the use of weapon/guild/alliance skills to be essentially mandatory (e.g. BoL/ward vs rally/vigor)

TL,DR: More stamina morphs of class abilities needed for variety. Heavy attack as a stamina spammable is not interesting either.

Anti_Virus

Please consider improving the viability of ranged stamina based Dps since melee stamina is in trouble atm.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Please consider improving the viability of ranged stamina based Dps since melee stamina is in trouble atm.

Do you PVP? Because there are plenty of people who can 2 shot someone from stealth with a bow from 40 meters out so quickly that your health desyncs. That’s kind of what I was saying in my previous post about trying to balance around PVE issues.

JobooAGS

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Please consider improving the viability of ranged stamina based Dps since melee stamina is in trouble atm.

Do you PVP? Because there are plenty of people who can 2 shot someone from stealth with a bow from 40 meters out so quickly that your health desyncs. That’s kind of what I was saying in my previous post about trying to balance around PVE issues.

And once revealed, they are 1 shotted and/or they cannot properly kill, therefore pigeonholed into stealth. Give bow some proper surviability tools, increase the range of its cc and maybe a proper spammable.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

JobooAGS wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Please consider improving the viability of ranged stamina based Dps since melee stamina is in trouble atm.

Do you PVP? Because there are plenty of people who can 2 shot someone from stealth with a bow from 40 meters out so quickly that your health desyncs. That’s kind of what I was saying in my previous post about trying to balance around PVE issues.

And once revealed, they are 1 shotted and/or they cannot properly kill, therefore pigeonholed into stealth. Give bow some proper surviability tools, increase the range of its cc and maybe a proper spammable.

Not saying you’re wrong. Just trying to see the full picture. I’ve killed and been killed by so many bowman over the years I’m just trying so help the community a bit by giving the perspective of the other side of it.

Because to me it seems like you do not have a DPS problem but a counter attacking problem. I don’t think the solution to anything is to pump up a class enough where no play back at all is possible.

TarmoRhox

1. MagNB is far better then any other option for high end PVE. Not enough class diversity in high end PVE.
2. Light attack weaving can be clunky for some skills and is very ping-dependant. New Psyjic Elemental Weapon work is not obvious with staff light attacks as it buffs only when attack lands so if you launch it too far away from target there is possibility that you will override previous cast with next one which makes DPS lost and some frustration.

JobooAGS

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Please consider improving the viability of ranged stamina based Dps since melee stamina is in trouble atm.

Do you PVP? Because there are plenty of people who can 2 shot someone from stealth with a bow from 40 meters out so quickly that your health desyncs. That’s kind of what I was saying in my previous post about trying to balance around PVE issues.

And once revealed, they are 1 shotted and/or they cannot properly kill, therefore pigeonholed into stealth. Give bow some proper surviability tools, increase the range of its cc and maybe a proper spammable.

Not saying you’re wrong. Just trying to see the full picture. I’ve killed and been killed by so many bowman over the years I’m just trying so help the community a bit by giving the perspective of the other side of it.

Because to me it seems like you do not have a DPS problem but a counter attacking problem. I don’t think the solution to anything is to pump up a class enough where no play back at all is possible.

With the exception of arrow spray and its morphs, everything in the bow tool kit is dodgeable. Worse still, bow has passives for more damage for bow abilities at range yet arrow spray is 20 m, snipe is 35/41 m (which can be interupted and made useless for 3 seconds, plus it has a cast time. To put into perspective, people make fun of sorcs who "hard cast" frags) finally, its cc is a pitiful 10 m mean while gap closers are usually 22m+. Hawkeye only works if you land light/heavy attacks,which are all dodgeable therefore easy to lose stacks and even so, they only work for bow skills. Bows have less weapon damage than other skill trees therefore heals like vigor are lower = lower surviability and the last passive , in which you dodge roll and get major expedition is easily countered by a speed potion or streak.

I would like to see bow/bow builds perform that are not completely reliant on stealth.

Anti_Virus

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Please consider improving the viability of ranged stamina based Dps since melee stamina is in trouble atm.

Do you PVP? Because there are plenty of people who can 2 shot someone from stealth with a bow from 40 meters out so quickly that your health desyncs. That’s kind of what I was saying in my previous post about trying to balance around PVE issues.

if we rework a morph of snipe to be a proper spammable then one shot bow ganks wouldn't be a problem.

bardx86

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we nightblades are not able to stealth properly, we are WAY too easily pulled out of stealth and cannot cast invisibility for long enough periods. i wish we should have our stealth increased. it angers me that we cannot stealth like we need to and that we so easily are pulled out of stealth.

it angers me that we cannot sneak fast in stealth.
right now we have an ability to sneak but it simply feels like we are crawling in mud while we are sneaking, we need to be able to Get Out of harm way while in sneak and right now it is Way too slow in sneak speeds.

THE THREAD IS DPS! NOT OP NB CRAP!

bardx86

Caff32 wrote: »

1. Bring back some sustain. The nerfs to sustain went way too far. Somewhere between where they were and where they are would make the game far more fun.
2. Make Khajiit Great Again

I agree with this magicka sustain got hit to hard, effects dps to much.

WrathOfInnos

TarmoRhox wrote: »

2. Light attack weaving can be clunky for some skills and is very ping-dependant. New Psyjic Elemental Weapon work is not obvious with staff light attacks as it buffs only when attack lands so if you launch it too far away from target there is possibility that you will override previous cast with next one which makes DPS lost and some frustration.

Yes, this ^. Casting elemental weapon, light attack, elemental weapon, light attack results in only the first light attack getting buffed, since it has not traveled to the target before the 2nd cast. The second light attack receives no buff because the first one stole both casts of elemental weapon. The skill should be tied to the light attack and consumed the moment it leaves the staff, not delayed until impact with target.

MerlinPendragon

1. With every patch, the game feels more like Elder Staves Online. Melee weapons, 2H in particular, need some buffs to be more viable so that there is more variability in templates/builds.
2. Not enough variability in stam abilities from class skill lines. All stam builds based around a core of 7 or 8 abilities in nearly every build.

ak_pvp

The light attack buff needs to be toned down a little, I get it was to promote weaving and skilled combat, but there is no reason it should do more damage than a medium weave. The power creep was massive.

WuffyCerulei

First, dps need way more variety in race options. And I mean races more geared towards damage output. Dunmer/altmer and redguard are pretty much what most dps run these days. I won't say nerf them, but races like nords, bosmer, and bretons need reworking to allow for more variety.
Second, magicka sustain. I do understand that magicka dps tend to have higher resources than stam. However, the drastically lower stam ability costs outshine the magicka ones. Not all magicka skills need cost reduction. Certain skills have good cost-damage ratios. However, ones like Deep Fissure hard to keep up in pve due to the cost.

MaxwellC

I just wanna say I hate the focus of light attacks being where you deal the most damage rather than Heavy attacks. You'd think a Heavy attack something that has a wind up would do more damage up front while light attacks could be chained to do more damage later on.
The nerfs to Heavy attack confuse me.

XiDiabolismiX

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

It has to be said, and I am absolutely not trolling.

You should probably ignore almost all PVE related DPS “issues”. The main issue with PVE DPS issues is the bar is constantly moving. Maybe a year ago you could do some dungeon in 60 minutes and through practice you got it down to 45. Then a nerf comes and now it’s an hour and 15. Sure, that is annoying but the content is still completable. But ... then comes the forum raging and some of those nerfs are altered in the following patch to allow you to feel awesome again ... great! But it’s not great because now people in Cyrodiil can blink and make you explode from 41 yards away.

Long story short, I fully support addressing DPS issues, but use PvP as your template not PvE. If you can achieve near-balance in Cyrodiil the PVE community will figure out how to make it work. They always do.

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Balance pve around pvp.....? Ever try bringing a pvp character into end game content?

If anything, they need to keep the little balancing act between the two separate. They can change whatever they want into battle spirit since it’s already there. Just add whatever tweak and value pvp needs into that. Several mmo’s have proven that it’s possible. The dynamic between different gear and skill loadouts between these two activities are so vastly different that when you think you fix one thing, it turns into a turd in the other thing.

I understand some of the bigger changes concerning things like monster set crits and whatnot have turned out fine, but it seems like it’s a never ending battle of trying to balance the two play styles. The scales tip too far in one direction and a couple months down the road, when everyone is getting use to something, they tip too far in the opposite direction.

Lunatic_Dizzy

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

It has to be said, and I am absolutely not trolling.

You should probably ignore almost all PVE related DPS “issues”. The main issue with PVE DPS issues is the bar is constantly moving. Maybe a year ago you could do some dungeon in 60 minutes and through practice you got it down to 45. Then a nerf comes and now it’s an hour and 15. Sure, that is annoying but the content is still completable. But ... then comes the forum raging and some of those nerfs are altered in the following patch to allow you to feel awesome again ... great! But it’s not great because now people in Cyrodiil can blink and make you explode from 41 yards away.

Long story short, I fully support addressing DPS issues, but use PvP as your template not PvE. If you can achieve near-balance in Cyrodiil the PVE community will figure out how to make it work. They always do.

Or you know, balance each separately like they should? I mean when you step foot in Cyro you resource pool is balanced differently and in some cases CP isn't even allowed. They're already two steps there.