Alkosh vs Other Tank Sets

idk · July 2018

webrgesner wrote: »

Is Alkosh really nessesarry for tanks? I seen tanks that dies or doesnt have enough stam. Wouldnt it be better if a stam dps wears alkosh and tank wears an ulti regen set ot a stam and health set

First if a tank is dying one needs to figure out why he is dying. It probably is not the alkosh.

There are some instances where there is high damage a tank can take and at first it can be beneficial for the tank to be more selfish in the gear they wear and stack more health. vHoF, vAS and vCR would fit this bill. Anything before vHoF 30-35k health is fine and Alkosh can be worn and easily hit that health.

If they are running out of stamina they need to learn to manage their resources better and alkosh is likely not the reason they are running out of stamina.

Now, is Alkosh reauired? No, but if the raid leader wants the tank to wear it then that is the raid leaders choice. It is a fairly common set for tanks along with Ebon and Torugs.

But again, why is the tank dying needs to be determined first. Otherwise the tank could struggle in any gear.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2018

I've used 5 and 5 of mazz& melphala in trials .was able to do most of them as tank. I was not very welcomed with that set up but the leetz let me do it for the lame procs. At this point Zos has shunned their end game community so bad it's hard to worm your way into legit trial communities. They are small and reclusive communities that dont have time to waste

idk · July 2018

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

At this point Zos has shunned their end game community so bad it's hard to worm your way into legit trial communities. They are small and reclusive communities that dont have time to waste

It is sad to see a comment like this. Partially since it has nothing to do with the OP though someone might have said something.

The bigger reason is because it his wholly inaccurate. The end game raiding community has many tiers from very competitive with leaderboard rankings to those that just want to clear and experience content.

The entire community is pretty much is always looking for new members to fill their ranks though one needs to find the raid guilds that fit their needs and strengths. Not every guild is for everyone. Some guilds require X DPS while other guilds work with new players to help them improve and learn the content. Often some on the second group are also in the first group.

kylewwefan · July 2018

It’s not mandatory, but it’s a good set to use if you’re good enough at tanking to not die.

Once a tank figures out to hold block and not die, you can focus on buffing the DPS. Alkosh is probably the single best way you can buff the DD.

josiahva · July 2018

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Is Alkosh really nessesarry for tanks? I seen tanks that dies or doesnt have enough stam. Wouldnt it be better if a stam dps wears alkosh and tank wears an ulti regen set ot a stam and health set

There are so many good tank sets. It just all depends on content and group format.

For example if you are doing a 4 man dungeon with 3 magblade dps and 1 tank. Chances are yur alkosh will have 0 uptime. So that set would be completely useless.

A good alternative to alkosh is torugs pact. U can have a 100% uptime on it with 0 synergies.

Or if you feel and if your group feels they dont need buff sets and would rather have you go extra selfish to make sure you dont die im tough fights ( since most groups dont use a healer in dungeons thats when it usually ideal to go selfish, especially since your tanking without ahealer which is allowing another 35-40k dps to the group.

If you have a great healer and a good group i would always say run support and buff sets like alkosh torugs ebon etc. since you shouldnt have a problem surviving as a tank especially with a decent healer.

But lets say u doing fang lair hard mode with 3 dps. Then i would go as selfish ass possible since you will need extra resources to Immobilize beatles and sprint awwy from them before they get to you. That can be a lil more difficult if you dont have the sustain. So running dragon/leeching with bloodspawn would be ideal in that fight IMO.

If i was a tank i would collect all the good support sets and selfish sets just so i can run whats needed when needed. I think thats the best way to approach tanking

This is the whole problem that people have when thinking of tanks and what their job is. So called non-selfish sets vs so called selfish sets. The fact is that the job of the tank is to SURVIVE AND KEEP AGGRO. It is NOT to de-buff the enemy and buff allies regardless of what people may think. Do you call a DPS selfish for maximizing damage? Do you call a healer selfish for maximizing healing? No? Then why in the world are you calling a tank selfish for maximizing survival? I understand that tanks can survive well enough without min-maxing that they can afford to run sets like Ebon and Alkosh, etc...but it doesnt make a tank selfish to maximize self-survival any more than it makes a DPS selfish to maximize personal DPS. If it takes a tank maximizing survival to survive and keep aggro off the DPS, I would much prefer that to a tank who dies easier just so he can give the group a worthless extra 1k HP...call me crazy. Especially when it comes to new tanks...by all means they need to worry about themselves first. Some of these people who have never tanked before need to go into someplace like vBF and try to survive constant anvil crackers from all three amalgams because you are in some pug with low DPS and then come back and talk about tanks being selfish.

Destruent · July 2018

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Is Alkosh really nessesarry for tanks? I seen tanks that dies or doesnt have enough stam. Wouldnt it be better if a stam dps wears alkosh and tank wears an ulti regen set ot a stam and health set

There are so many good tank sets. It just all depends on content and group format.

For example if you are doing a 4 man dungeon with 3 magblade dps and 1 tank. Chances are yur alkosh will have 0 uptime. So that set would be completely useless.

A good alternative to alkosh is torugs pact. U can have a 100% uptime on it with 0 synergies.

Or if you feel and if your group feels they dont need buff sets and would rather have you go extra selfish to make sure you dont die im tough fights ( since most groups dont use a healer in dungeons thats when it usually ideal to go selfish, especially since your tanking without ahealer which is allowing another 35-40k dps to the group.

If you have a great healer and a good group i would always say run support and buff sets like alkosh torugs ebon etc. since you shouldnt have a problem surviving as a tank especially with a decent healer.

But lets say u doing fang lair hard mode with 3 dps. Then i would go as selfish ass possible since you will need extra resources to Immobilize beatles and sprint awwy from them before they get to you. That can be a lil more difficult if you dont have the sustain. So running dragon/leeching with bloodspawn would be ideal in that fight IMO.

If i was a tank i would collect all the good support sets and selfish sets just so i can run whats needed when needed. I think thats the best way to approach tanking

This is the whole problem that people have when thinking of tanks and what their job is. So called non-selfish sets vs so called selfish sets. The fact is that the job of the tank is to SURVIVE AND KEEP AGGRO. It is NOT to de-buff the enemy and buff allies regardless of what people may think. Do you call a DPS selfish for maximizing damage? Do you call a healer selfish for maximizing healing? No? Then why in the world are you calling a tank selfish for maximizing survival? I understand that tanks can survive well enough without min-maxing that they can afford to run sets like Ebon and Alkosh, etc...but it doesnt make a tank selfish to maximize self-survival any more than it makes a DPS selfish to maximize personal DPS. If it takes a tank maximizing survival to survive and keep aggro off the DPS, I would much prefer that to a tank who dies easier just so he can give the group a worthless extra 1k HP...call me crazy. Especially when it comes to new tanks...by all means they need to worry about themselves first. Some of these people who have never tanked before need to go into someplace like vBF and try to survive constant anvil crackers from all three amalgams because you are in some pug with low DPS and then come back and talk about tanks being selfish.

Surviving is kinda the basic task of everyone (including healers and DDs). As soon as you are able to do this (while holding aggro ofc), you can look for ways to support your group further. Alkosh is the best set to do so....that's it and that's what everyone is saying.
tbh I'd also call a Stam-NB selfish for not using warmachine, bc they don't rly loose DPS for using that set (but grp-DPS goes up).
edit: yes i'd call a healer selfish for maximizing healing, bc most of that is wasted overheal (at least mostly..there may be some special encounters where i'm wrong...)

webrgesner · July 2018

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Is Alkosh really nessesarry for tanks? I seen tanks that dies or doesnt have enough stam. Wouldnt it be better if a stam dps wears alkosh and tank wears an ulti regen set ot a stam and health set

There are so many good tank sets. It just all depends on content and group format.

For example if you are doing a 4 man dungeon with 3 magblade dps and 1 tank. Chances are yur alkosh will have 0 uptime. So that set would be completely useless.

A good alternative to alkosh is torugs pact. U can have a 100% uptime on it with 0 synergies.

Or if you feel and if your group feels they dont need buff sets and would rather have you go extra selfish to make sure you dont die im tough fights ( since most groups dont use a healer in dungeons thats when it usually ideal to go selfish, especially since your tanking without ahealer which is allowing another 35-40k dps to the group.

If you have a great healer and a good group i would always say run support and buff sets like alkosh torugs ebon etc. since you shouldnt have a problem surviving as a tank especially with a decent healer.

But lets say u doing fang lair hard mode with 3 dps. Then i would go as selfish ass possible since you will need extra resources to Immobilize beatles and sprint awwy from them before they get to you. That can be a lil more difficult if you dont have the sustain. So running dragon/leeching with bloodspawn would be ideal in that fight IMO.

If i was a tank i would collect all the good support sets and selfish sets just so i can run whats needed when needed. I think thats the best way to approach tanking

This is the whole problem that people have when thinking of tanks and what their job is. So called non-selfish sets vs so called selfish sets. The fact is that the job of the tank is to SURVIVE AND KEEP AGGRO. It is NOT to de-buff the enemy and buff allies regardless of what people may think. Do you call a DPS selfish for maximizing damage? Do you call a healer selfish for maximizing healing? No? Then why in the world are you calling a tank selfish for maximizing survival? I understand that tanks can survive well enough without min-maxing that they can afford to run sets like Ebon and Alkosh, etc...but it doesnt make a tank selfish to maximize self-survival any more than it makes a DPS selfish to maximize personal DPS. If it takes a tank maximizing survival to survive and keep aggro off the DPS, I would much prefer that to a tank who dies easier just so he can give the group a worthless extra 1k HP...call me crazy. Especially when it comes to new tanks...by all means they need to worry about themselves first. Some of these people who have never tanked before need to go into someplace like vBF and try to survive constant anvil crackers from all three amalgams because you are in some pug with low DPS and then come back and talk about tanks being selfish.

YES! I wore hulking and had 27k stam and used whichmothers with atronach mundus which gave me 1400 mag recov. I was able to agro every adds and i stood still and chained mobs to aoe and held block the whole time while spamming igneous in vet dungeons. I had survivability and when everyone died in vICP i had 4 dragon adds shooting at me while i rezzed and we got everyone back up and finished it. Its not that i was selfish but the dps were pulling 20k dps which SUCKED! And when i DPS i would have a tank wearing meta and still die or get 1 shotted from bosses heavy because they couldnt remain block cuz their resources sucked which caused the group to wipe. When i DPS i rather have a tank that could survive rather than debuffs.

BejaProphet · July 2018

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Is Alkosh really nessesarry for tanks? I seen tanks that dies or doesnt have enough stam. Wouldnt it be better if a stam dps wears alkosh and tank wears an ulti regen set ot a stam and health set

There are so many good tank sets. It just all depends on content and group format.

For example if you are doing a 4 man dungeon with 3 magblade dps and 1 tank. Chances are yur alkosh will have 0 uptime. So that set would be completely useless.

A good alternative to alkosh is torugs pact. U can have a 100% uptime on it with 0 synergies.

Or if you feel and if your group feels they dont need buff sets and would rather have you go extra selfish to make sure you dont die im tough fights ( since most groups dont use a healer in dungeons thats when it usually ideal to go selfish, especially since your tanking without ahealer which is allowing another 35-40k dps to the group.

If you have a great healer and a good group i would always say run support and buff sets like alkosh torugs ebon etc. since you shouldnt have a problem surviving as a tank especially with a decent healer.

But lets say u doing fang lair hard mode with 3 dps. Then i would go as selfish ass possible since you will need extra resources to Immobilize beatles and sprint awwy from them before they get to you. That can be a lil more difficult if you dont have the sustain. So running dragon/leeching with bloodspawn would be ideal in that fight IMO.

If i was a tank i would collect all the good support sets and selfish sets just so i can run whats needed when needed. I think thats the best way to approach tanking

This is the whole problem that people have when thinking of tanks and what their job is. So called non-selfish sets vs so called selfish sets. The fact is that the job of the tank is to SURVIVE AND KEEP AGGRO. It is NOT to de-buff the enemy and buff allies regardless of what people may think. Do you call a DPS selfish for maximizing damage? Do you call a healer selfish for maximizing healing? No? Then why in the world are you calling a tank selfish for maximizing survival? I understand that tanks can survive well enough without min-maxing that they can afford to run sets like Ebon and Alkosh, etc...but it doesnt make a tank selfish to maximize self-survival any more than it makes a DPS selfish to maximize personal DPS. If it takes a tank maximizing survival to survive and keep aggro off the DPS, I would much prefer that to a tank who dies easier just so he can give the group a worthless extra 1k HP...call me crazy. Especially when it comes to new tanks...by all means they need to worry about themselves first. Some of these people who have never tanked before need to go into someplace like vBF and try to survive constant anvil crackers from all three amalgams because you are in some pug with low DPS and then come back and talk about tanks being selfish.

When people use the word "selfish" in this game they are meaning it in a much more technical sense. Selfish means the set only modifies you personally, while unselfish means the set does something to directly or indirectly to benefit the other members of your group. Now you know this, but what I'm trying to say is that they mean only this and they don't mean the moral implications of the word "selfish" as we'd use it in other contexts. So when I say that desert rose is a selfish set, technically speaking its true by the above definitions, but I don't ever mean to say you are doing something morally wrong by wearing it.

Some players do use it in a condescending way, but you'll find that everybody who really knows what they are talking about (as opposed to parroting what they've heard in guides/leet talk) those truly knowledgable people are simply using it in the technical sense without implying judgment.

pauli133 · July 2018

Within reason:

Good players can clear content, regardless of gear.

Bad players can't clear content, regardless of gear.

Make intelligent choices that suit the content and the players, and things will go well - even if those choices aren't flavor-of-the-month.

Shezzarrine · July 2018

webrgesner wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Is Alkosh really nessesarry for tanks? I seen tanks that dies or doesnt have enough stam. Wouldnt it be better if a stam dps wears alkosh and tank wears an ulti regen set ot a stam and health set

There are so many good tank sets. It just all depends on content and group format.

For example if you are doing a 4 man dungeon with 3 magblade dps and 1 tank. Chances are yur alkosh will have 0 uptime. So that set would be completely useless.

A good alternative to alkosh is torugs pact. U can have a 100% uptime on it with 0 synergies.

Or if you feel and if your group feels they dont need buff sets and would rather have you go extra selfish to make sure you dont die im tough fights ( since most groups dont use a healer in dungeons thats when it usually ideal to go selfish, especially since your tanking without ahealer which is allowing another 35-40k dps to the group.

If you have a great healer and a good group i would always say run support and buff sets like alkosh torugs ebon etc. since you shouldnt have a problem surviving as a tank especially with a decent healer.

But lets say u doing fang lair hard mode with 3 dps. Then i would go as selfish ass possible since you will need extra resources to Immobilize beatles and sprint awwy from them before they get to you. That can be a lil more difficult if you dont have the sustain. So running dragon/leeching with bloodspawn would be ideal in that fight IMO.

If i was a tank i would collect all the good support sets and selfish sets just so i can run whats needed when needed. I think thats the best way to approach tanking

This is the whole problem that people have when thinking of tanks and what their job is. So called non-selfish sets vs so called selfish sets. The fact is that the job of the tank is to SURVIVE AND KEEP AGGRO. It is NOT to de-buff the enemy and buff allies regardless of what people may think. Do you call a DPS selfish for maximizing damage? Do you call a healer selfish for maximizing healing? No? Then why in the world are you calling a tank selfish for maximizing survival? I understand that tanks can survive well enough without min-maxing that they can afford to run sets like Ebon and Alkosh, etc...but it doesnt make a tank selfish to maximize self-survival any more than it makes a DPS selfish to maximize personal DPS. If it takes a tank maximizing survival to survive and keep aggro off the DPS, I would much prefer that to a tank who dies easier just so he can give the group a worthless extra 1k HP...call me crazy. Especially when it comes to new tanks...by all means they need to worry about themselves first. Some of these people who have never tanked before need to go into someplace like vBF and try to survive constant anvil crackers from all three amalgams because you are in some pug with low DPS and then come back and talk about tanks being selfish.

YES! I wore hulking and had 27k stam and used whichmothers with atronach mundus which gave me 1400 mag recov. I was able to agro every adds and i stood still and chained mobs to aoe and held block the whole time while spamming igneous in vet dungeons. I had survivability and when everyone died in vICP i had 4 dragon adds shooting at me while i rezzed and we got everyone back up and finished it. Its not that i was selfish but the dps were pulling 20k dps which SUCKED! And when i DPS i would have a tank wearing meta and still die or get 1 shotted from bosses heavy because they couldnt remain block cuz their resources sucked which caused the group to wipe. When i DPS i rather have a tank that could survive rather than debuffs.

That's a l2p issue, you do not need tanky sets to rez the group in vICP final boss. I'm not even that great a tank and I can do so easily wearing alkosh/Dragonguard (ebon is a waste in 4 man imo). Litterally the only thing that keeps you from rezing is the pools. It's all fine that you wear tank sets and all but your dps would have been higher if you wore alkosh or another support set. Also, don't act like it's impossible to tank that dungeon without tanky sets and a massive Stam pool, you don't even need to block those 4 adds if you have appropriate resistances, which you get from CP/skills. Any content in the game can be done with a 15k Stam pool, perma-blocking is not required.

Dextail · July 2018

- self proclaimed elistist scum here -

Is alkosh on tank needed? Yes to optimise group dps, but you can technically not use it.

However as someone who mains both a tank and a DD, I can say your reasoning for “running out of stamina or dying” is ultimately a learn to play issue.

Alkosh doesn’t benefit you as a tank stat wise, but you don’t need it too. Resource pool management is a learn to play issue. 16k is more than enough to do any trial without running dry. And dying is mostly a learn to play issue again from learning when to block, when to self heal, when to roll ETC.

Side note: if you have to choose between surviving and alkosh of course choose surviving. But most things can be done in medium armour if you know how outside of a few bosses

webrgesner · July 2018

Shezzarrine wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Is Alkosh really nessesarry for tanks? I seen tanks that dies or doesnt have enough stam. Wouldnt it be better if a stam dps wears alkosh and tank wears an ulti regen set ot a stam and health set

There are so many good tank sets. It just all depends on content and group format.

For example if you are doing a 4 man dungeon with 3 magblade dps and 1 tank. Chances are yur alkosh will have 0 uptime. So that set would be completely useless.

A good alternative to alkosh is torugs pact. U can have a 100% uptime on it with 0 synergies.

Or if you feel and if your group feels they dont need buff sets and would rather have you go extra selfish to make sure you dont die im tough fights ( since most groups dont use a healer in dungeons thats when it usually ideal to go selfish, especially since your tanking without ahealer which is allowing another 35-40k dps to the group.

If you have a great healer and a good group i would always say run support and buff sets like alkosh torugs ebon etc. since you shouldnt have a problem surviving as a tank especially with a decent healer.

But lets say u doing fang lair hard mode with 3 dps. Then i would go as selfish ass possible since you will need extra resources to Immobilize beatles and sprint awwy from them before they get to you. That can be a lil more difficult if you dont have the sustain. So running dragon/leeching with bloodspawn would be ideal in that fight IMO.

If i was a tank i would collect all the good support sets and selfish sets just so i can run whats needed when needed. I think thats the best way to approach tanking

This is the whole problem that people have when thinking of tanks and what their job is. So called non-selfish sets vs so called selfish sets. The fact is that the job of the tank is to SURVIVE AND KEEP AGGRO. It is NOT to de-buff the enemy and buff allies regardless of what people may think. Do you call a DPS selfish for maximizing damage? Do you call a healer selfish for maximizing healing? No? Then why in the world are you calling a tank selfish for maximizing survival? I understand that tanks can survive well enough without min-maxing that they can afford to run sets like Ebon and Alkosh, etc...but it doesnt make a tank selfish to maximize self-survival any more than it makes a DPS selfish to maximize personal DPS. If it takes a tank maximizing survival to survive and keep aggro off the DPS, I would much prefer that to a tank who dies easier just so he can give the group a worthless extra 1k HP...call me crazy. Especially when it comes to new tanks...by all means they need to worry about themselves first. Some of these people who have never tanked before need to go into someplace like vBF and try to survive constant anvil crackers from all three amalgams because you are in some pug with low DPS and then come back and talk about tanks being selfish.

YES! I wore hulking and had 27k stam and used whichmothers with atronach mundus which gave me 1400 mag recov. I was able to agro every adds and i stood still and chained mobs to aoe and held block the whole time while spamming igneous in vet dungeons. I had survivability and when everyone died in vICP i had 4 dragon adds shooting at me while i rezzed and we got everyone back up and finished it. Its not that i was selfish but the dps were pulling 20k dps which SUCKED! And when i DPS i would have a tank wearing meta and still die or get 1 shotted from bosses heavy because they couldnt remain block cuz their resources sucked which caused the group to wipe. When i DPS i rather have a tank that could survive rather than debuffs.

That's a l2p issue, you do not need tanky sets to rez the group in vICP final boss. I'm not even that great a tank and I can do so easily wearing alkosh/Dragonguard (ebon is a waste in 4 man imo). Litterally the only thing that keeps you from rezing is the pools. It's all fine that you wear tank sets and all but your dps would have been higher if you wore alkosh or another support set. Also, don't act like it's impossible to tank that dungeon without tanky sets and a massive Stam pool, you don't even need to block those 4 adds if you have appropriate resistances, which you get from CP/skills. Any content in the game can be done with a 15k Stam pool, perma-blocking is not required.

15k stam for tank is good enough? Yeah ok thats why when i was watching nija stream vet mol they wiped twice because he died. He had to yell Need shards cuz he was out of stam. But whatever floats your boat

Destruent · July 2018

webrgesner wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Is Alkosh really nessesarry for tanks? I seen tanks that dies or doesnt have enough stam. Wouldnt it be better if a stam dps wears alkosh and tank wears an ulti regen set ot a stam and health set

There are so many good tank sets. It just all depends on content and group format.

For example if you are doing a 4 man dungeon with 3 magblade dps and 1 tank. Chances are yur alkosh will have 0 uptime. So that set would be completely useless.

A good alternative to alkosh is torugs pact. U can have a 100% uptime on it with 0 synergies.

Or if you feel and if your group feels they dont need buff sets and would rather have you go extra selfish to make sure you dont die im tough fights ( since most groups dont use a healer in dungeons thats when it usually ideal to go selfish, especially since your tanking without ahealer which is allowing another 35-40k dps to the group.

If you have a great healer and a good group i would always say run support and buff sets like alkosh torugs ebon etc. since you shouldnt have a problem surviving as a tank especially with a decent healer.

But lets say u doing fang lair hard mode with 3 dps. Then i would go as selfish ass possible since you will need extra resources to Immobilize beatles and sprint awwy from them before they get to you. That can be a lil more difficult if you dont have the sustain. So running dragon/leeching with bloodspawn would be ideal in that fight IMO.

If i was a tank i would collect all the good support sets and selfish sets just so i can run whats needed when needed. I think thats the best way to approach tanking

This is the whole problem that people have when thinking of tanks and what their job is. So called non-selfish sets vs so called selfish sets. The fact is that the job of the tank is to SURVIVE AND KEEP AGGRO. It is NOT to de-buff the enemy and buff allies regardless of what people may think. Do you call a DPS selfish for maximizing damage? Do you call a healer selfish for maximizing healing? No? Then why in the world are you calling a tank selfish for maximizing survival? I understand that tanks can survive well enough without min-maxing that they can afford to run sets like Ebon and Alkosh, etc...but it doesnt make a tank selfish to maximize self-survival any more than it makes a DPS selfish to maximize personal DPS. If it takes a tank maximizing survival to survive and keep aggro off the DPS, I would much prefer that to a tank who dies easier just so he can give the group a worthless extra 1k HP...call me crazy. Especially when it comes to new tanks...by all means they need to worry about themselves first. Some of these people who have never tanked before need to go into someplace like vBF and try to survive constant anvil crackers from all three amalgams because you are in some pug with low DPS and then come back and talk about tanks being selfish.

YES! I wore hulking and had 27k stam and used whichmothers with atronach mundus which gave me 1400 mag recov. I was able to agro every adds and i stood still and chained mobs to aoe and held block the whole time while spamming igneous in vet dungeons. I had survivability and when everyone died in vICP i had 4 dragon adds shooting at me while i rezzed and we got everyone back up and finished it. Its not that i was selfish but the dps were pulling 20k dps which SUCKED! And when i DPS i would have a tank wearing meta and still die or get 1 shotted from bosses heavy because they couldnt remain block cuz their resources sucked which caused the group to wipe. When i DPS i rather have a tank that could survive rather than debuffs.

That's a l2p issue, you do not need tanky sets to rez the group in vICP final boss. I'm not even that great a tank and I can do so easily wearing alkosh/Dragonguard (ebon is a waste in 4 man imo). Litterally the only thing that keeps you from rezing is the pools. It's all fine that you wear tank sets and all but your dps would have been higher if you wore alkosh or another support set. Also, don't act like it's impossible to tank that dungeon without tanky sets and a massive Stam pool, you don't even need to block those 4 adds if you have appropriate resistances, which you get from CP/skills. Any content in the game can be done with a 15k Stam pool, perma-blocking is not required.

15k stam for tank is good enough? Yeah ok thats why when i was watching nija stream vet mol they wiped twice because he died. He had to yell Need shards cuz he was out of stam. But whatever floats your boat

Indeed, it is...you just need to learn how to tank with only 15k stam.

JinMori · July 2018

neccessary? no, better? yes.

FakeFox · July 2018

webrgesner wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

webrgesner wrote: »

Is Alkosh really nessesarry for tanks? I seen tanks that dies or doesnt have enough stam. Wouldnt it be better if a stam dps wears alkosh and tank wears an ulti regen set ot a stam and health set

There are so many good tank sets. It just all depends on content and group format.

For example if you are doing a 4 man dungeon with 3 magblade dps and 1 tank. Chances are yur alkosh will have 0 uptime. So that set would be completely useless.

A good alternative to alkosh is torugs pact. U can have a 100% uptime on it with 0 synergies.

Or if you feel and if your group feels they dont need buff sets and would rather have you go extra selfish to make sure you dont die im tough fights ( since most groups dont use a healer in dungeons thats when it usually ideal to go selfish, especially since your tanking without ahealer which is allowing another 35-40k dps to the group.

If you have a great healer and a good group i would always say run support and buff sets like alkosh torugs ebon etc. since you shouldnt have a problem surviving as a tank especially with a decent healer.

But lets say u doing fang lair hard mode with 3 dps. Then i would go as selfish ass possible since you will need extra resources to Immobilize beatles and sprint awwy from them before they get to you. That can be a lil more difficult if you dont have the sustain. So running dragon/leeching with bloodspawn would be ideal in that fight IMO.

If i was a tank i would collect all the good support sets and selfish sets just so i can run whats needed when needed. I think thats the best way to approach tanking

This is the whole problem that people have when thinking of tanks and what their job is. So called non-selfish sets vs so called selfish sets. The fact is that the job of the tank is to SURVIVE AND KEEP AGGRO. It is NOT to de-buff the enemy and buff allies regardless of what people may think. Do you call a DPS selfish for maximizing damage? Do you call a healer selfish for maximizing healing? No? Then why in the world are you calling a tank selfish for maximizing survival? I understand that tanks can survive well enough without min-maxing that they can afford to run sets like Ebon and Alkosh, etc...but it doesnt make a tank selfish to maximize self-survival any more than it makes a DPS selfish to maximize personal DPS. If it takes a tank maximizing survival to survive and keep aggro off the DPS, I would much prefer that to a tank who dies easier just so he can give the group a worthless extra 1k HP...call me crazy. Especially when it comes to new tanks...by all means they need to worry about themselves first. Some of these people who have never tanked before need to go into someplace like vBF and try to survive constant anvil crackers from all three amalgams because you are in some pug with low DPS and then come back and talk about tanks being selfish.

YES! I wore hulking and had 27k stam and used whichmothers with atronach mundus which gave me 1400 mag recov. I was able to agro every adds and i stood still and chained mobs to aoe and held block the whole time while spamming igneous in vet dungeons. I had survivability and when everyone died in vICP i had 4 dragon adds shooting at me while i rezzed and we got everyone back up and finished it. Its not that i was selfish but the dps were pulling 20k dps which SUCKED! And when i DPS i would have a tank wearing meta and still die or get 1 shotted from bosses heavy because they couldnt remain block cuz their resources sucked which caused the group to wipe. When i DPS i rather have a tank that could survive rather than debuffs.

That's a l2p issue, you do not need tanky sets to rez the group in vICP final boss. I'm not even that great a tank and I can do so easily wearing alkosh/Dragonguard (ebon is a waste in 4 man imo). Litterally the only thing that keeps you from rezing is the pools. It's all fine that you wear tank sets and all but your dps would have been higher if you wore alkosh or another support set. Also, don't act like it's impossible to tank that dungeon without tanky sets and a massive Stam pool, you don't even need to block those 4 adds if you have appropriate resistances, which you get from CP/skills. Any content in the game can be done with a 15k Stam pool, perma-blocking is not required.

15k stam for tank is good enough? Yeah ok thats why when i was watching nija stream vet mol they wiped twice because he died. He had to yell Need shards cuz he was out of stam. But whatever floats your boat

Even without synergies you shouldn't run out of stam with 15k. Just heavy attack and don't perma block. If you block anything outside of heavys, CCs and things like barrage you are doing something seriously wrong.

JinMori · July 2018

pauli133 wrote: »

Within reason:

Good players can clear content, regardless of gear.

Bad players can't clear content, regardless of gear.

Make intelligent choices that suit the content and the players, and things will go well - even if those choices aren't flavor-of-the-month.

Agree 100 %, but usually good players tend to go with better gear, because they complete more difficult content with better rewards.

And also they have more knowledge.

MUH elitism! This word gets thrown around a lot by people who don't have any idea what they are talking about, it's similar to virtue signaling, it's a way to shut down conversations while saying nothing good at all, because they know nothing.

Look, play however you like, but there is a reason why there is a thing called bis.

dodgehopper_ESO · July 2018

They could stand to make it a tank set with a few changes...

Wifeaggro13 · July 2018

idk wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

At this point Zos has shunned their end game community so bad it's hard to worm your way into legit trial communities. They are small and reclusive communities that dont have time to waste

It is sad to see a comment like this. Partially since it has nothing to do with the OP though someone might have said something.

The bigger reason is because it his wholly inaccurate. The end game raiding community has many tiers from very competitive with leaderboard rankings to those that just want to clear and experience content.

The entire community is pretty much is always looking for new members to fill their ranks though one needs to find the raid guilds that fit their needs and strengths. Not every guild is for everyone. Some guilds require X DPS while other guilds work with new players to help them improve and learn the content. Often some on the second group are also in the first group.

My experience has been their is no real permanent community in end game . The server first guilds and end game echelon is a constant bleed . Many guilds dont even last to the next content drop

Facefister · July 2018

Unfortunately tanking in ESO isn't about survival but being a buff- and debuffdispenser for the DDs.

code65536 · July 2018

The tank role is a support role.

And as a support role, a good tank should always be asking, "What can I do to benefit the group?"

Of course, a dead support player provides zero support, so the first the most important thing a tank must do to benefit their group is to not die. And so it's not uncommon to see an experienced tank put on "selfish" sets--sets that help them survive, sustain, etc.--when they are learning a fight. When I first tanked vHoF and vAS, I did so using Plague Doctor. I don't use that set anymore in those places, but it certainly helped make mistakes more forgiving during the learning process.

But sets like that are like training wheels, because nothing in this game actually requires that the tank be "selfish"--the things that kill tanks are errors (by the tanks or by other group members).* The so-called "selfish" sets make things easier by giving you larger margins of error. But once you start making fewer errors, you'll find that you don't need those margins of error. And that's when players start asking, "Well, if I don't need X set to keep me alive, what else can I run instead?" And in answering that question, the set that most benefits the group is often Alkosh.

But not always. For example, my friends and I were running vDSA this past week. The tank initially wore Alkosh, but we asked him to wear something else, because we had no healer in the group to provide the various synergies needed to proc Alkosh, rendering the set useless. We went through the list of sets, discussing and considering various possibilities: Jorvuld for longer War Horn duration, Dragon for more frequent War Horns, Olorime to give us Major Courage (since, again, we had no healer), Livewire to provide AoE concussion/vulnerability, etc. This, BTW, is the same reason I hesitate to wear Alkosh when I'm PUGing dungeons or doing 3DD runs of dungeons--what good is Alkosh if I don't get a steady stream of synergies? It's always good to have other sets--my tanks' bags are cluttered with a myriad of sets to use in different situations.

As for the comment about having a DD run Alkosh, that boils down to the question of, "What is the DD sacrificing to put on Alkosh?" For example, instead of making a DD choose between Alkosh and Vicious Ophidian, if the tank wears Alkosh, that DD can get the benefit of both sets instead of sacrificing their VO to provide Alkosh for the group. It's the same reason tanks are asked to wear Ebon instead of having the DDs "just put more points into health". Why make them choose between health and magicka/stamina? Having the tank wear Ebon lets them enjoy extra health without such sacrifices. The same reasoning applies to Alkosh.

* One exception that I can think of, though, is the Reactive set for the main tank on vHoF boss 2.

BejaProphet · July 2018

@code65536 I find that probably 75% of my PUGs throw me a reasonable stream of synergies. Sorcs often give them but I find healers to generally take this very seriously.

Mettaricana · July 2018

Noctournals favor and grace of gloom on a nightblade with the dodge chance skill virtually untouchable self heals

D0PAMINE · July 2018

I use Ebon/Plague mixed with Torugs. Stam and Magicka management are extremely important. Im still getting used to it .

What pisses me off in PUGs is someone stealing taunt. I no longer pug.

@code65536 You are spot on.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · July 2018

I've found for a lot of content that i prefer to run Aegis of Galenwe for my "support" set. Then again the trials group i generally run in has a stam DPS who runs Alkosh and is comfortable doing so. I take shards/orbs and the occasional conduit proc and the stam DPS takes everything else.
In 4 man dungeons I find that Galenwe is better because it procs like mad and if your DPS have solid rotations then the constant empower ticks buff the damage to high numbers.

I've never been fond of Alkosh on my tanks but i prefer to run sets where the 2, 3 and 4 piece or some of these benefit me in some way.
Some people get great results with Alkosh, but i dance to my own beat and i find it fun when i get content done with my own builds.

Eso101rus · July 2018

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

I've found for a lot of content that i prefer to run Aegis of Galenwe for my "support" set. Then again the trials group i generally run in has a stam DPS who runs Alkosh and is comfortable doing so. I take shards/orbs and the occasional conduit proc and the stam DPS takes everything else.
In 4 man dungeons I find that Galenwe is better because it procs like mad and if your DPS have solid rotations then the constant empower ticks buff the damage to high numbers.

I've never been fond of Alkosh on my tanks but i prefer to run sets where the 2, 3 and 4 piece or some of these benefit me in some way.
Some people get great results with Alkosh, but i dance to my own beat and i find it fun when i get content done with my own builds.

This, exactly this. There is more than one way to play this game, and sadly most groups just copy and sheep. I can see the value of Alkosh to some group set ups, but receiving no benefit from 2,3,4 piece on a set is something which really bugs me.

Septimus_Magna · July 2018

I dont have Alkosh so my tank is currently wearing 5x Ebon, 5x Powerful Assault (back bar), 2x Mighty Chudan and Asylum/Maelstrom S&B (front bar). Vigor of the back bar procs major courage for 15s which is easy to keep up. This allows the healer to wear something else than SPC to increase dmg, sustain or heals.

Its probably not the best tank build around but it fun to try something else.

Dubhliam · July 2018

Royaji wrote: »

If you are running out of stam and dying as a tank get your Alkosh off. Put it in the bank for now and get some Hist's, Alessia's Bulwark, Resilient Yokeda or whatever tanky set you prefer. You will notice the difference. This setup will get you through your first clear. And then you will run again. And again. And again. And then you'll start noticing...

huh, those adds actually don't hit that hard...
...a half decent healer can easily outheal that.
the boss actually has a specific patter to his attacks...
...if I heavy attack here I will always have enough stam to block his heavy.
I need to stand on this corner during that fight so I'm not surprised by any spawning adds.
if I position myself here I will collect all the adds in a nice little group...
...and my DDs can actually burn them so fast that way.
damn, I've already done this dungeon so many times... can we do it quick?

This is when you are ready. Pick up your Alkosh from the bank. You've just learned to play. You don't need tanky sets anymore. Welcome to meta tanking where it's not about "oh god, how can I survive that?!" but "hm, what is the absolute minimum I can surivive this with?".

THIS.

People don't wear Alkosh because it is mandatory.

They wear it because they can.

If you can tank all PvE content in just about anything, then why not make the best of it and help your team get 15% better DPS?

Asardes · July 2018

A high stamina pool doesn't really mean great stamina sustain for a tank, not since Morrowind patch anyway, since the returns from various skills, passives and synergies stopped scaling as % of resource pool size, and in stead became fixed numbers. 19-22K stamina and magicka, with stamina a bit higher for the synergy return is a good resource pool for any content. Sets like Hulking Draugr don't help you or your group at all.

Danksta · July 2018

Optimal, not necessary. Having a DPS wear Alkosh means one of your DPS is giving up a 5 piece bonus for no gain if a tank can wear it. It's a DPS loss. But if your tanks can't survive without tanky sets then they should wear whatever helps them survive. The meta isn't for all groups.

LioraValkyrie · July 2018

The thing people don't seem to consider regarding Alkosh is that DDs must optimize their CP and possibly Mundus for it, and if it's not up on ALL targets over 50% of the time, this Alkosh-focussed optimization actually leads to an overall DPS loss.

For example, in Fang Lair HM, the targets that really need nuking are the bone colossi. Even assuming a tank can hit a synergy every 10 seconds, he must also be facing both the boss and the colossus for Alkosh to proc on both. It will usually miss most of the dragonknight ads and the bugs.

Another example is vDSA round 7. Having 10% more DPS on the sacrifices, which will never see an Alkosh debuff, is much more likely to influence the outcome of the attempt than is having 10% more DPS on the bosses, assuming Alkosh has 100% uptime on both of them, which it probably won't.

So, instead of asking whether Alkosh is BiS, we should ask whether OPTIMIZING for Alkosh is going to lead to a quicker and more comfortable completion in any given case. Sometimes it will, sometimes it won't.