MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS should just nerf the overperforming classes, like magicka NB. If they lowered every class to the level of magicka warden and magicka templar, content would get a lot harder.
When all the top groups are just stacking magblades and their 50k+ DPS, no *** the content becomes trivial.
And then everyone would leave.
Because nobody likes arbitrarily losing ability. Especially when the problem could likely just as easily be solved by tacking on another difficulty option something people like you have vehemently shot down in the past.
Why do you want the game to die? Why do you allways look to the players to pick up the slack and not the design? If people are just stacking 50K magblades that's a failing of the content and the system and both need overhauled anyway.
That's a failing of the balance team. Magblades are grossly overperforming.
MaddPowered wrote: »This will be my last post on the forums. I have gone back and re read comments and have realized that what i posted was absolutely ridiculous and nothing needs to be changed. For those of you who figured out my @name in game, I ask that you stop sending me hate tells in game thank you very much. I appreciate all of the thoughts and time people put into this post,
MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS should just nerf the overperforming classes, like magicka NB. If they lowered every class to the level of magicka warden and magicka templar, content would get a lot harder.
When all the top groups are just stacking magblades and their 50k+ DPS, no *** the content becomes trivial.
And then everyone would leave.
Because nobody likes arbitrarily losing ability. Especially when the problem could likely just as easily be solved by tacking on another difficulty option something people like you have vehemently shot down in the past.
Why do you want the game to die? Why do you allways look to the players to pick up the slack and not the design? If people are just stacking 50K magblades that's a failing of the content and the system and both need overhauled anyway.
That's a failing of the balance team. Magblades are grossly overperforming.
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS should just nerf the overperforming classes, like magicka NB. If they lowered every class to the level of magicka warden and magicka templar, content would get a lot harder.
When all the top groups are just stacking magblades and their 50k+ DPS, no *** the content becomes trivial.
And then everyone would leave.
Because nobody likes arbitrarily losing ability. Especially when the problem could likely just as easily be solved by tacking on another difficulty option something people like you have vehemently shot down in the past.
Why do you want the game to die? Why do you allways look to the players to pick up the slack and not the design? If people are just stacking 50K magblades that's a failing of the content and the system and both need overhauled anyway.
That's a failing of the balance team. Magblades are grossly overperforming.
Well good for them.
Tack on another difficulty mode and suddenly they'll be just right. Oh, no they wont, because the screaming with you people never friggin' ends.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS should just nerf the overperforming classes, like magicka NB. If they lowered every class to the level of magicka warden and magicka templar, content would get a lot harder.
When all the top groups are just stacking magblades and their 50k+ DPS, no *** the content becomes trivial.
And then everyone would leave.
Because nobody likes arbitrarily losing ability. Especially when the problem could likely just as easily be solved by tacking on another difficulty option something people like you have vehemently shot down in the past.
Why do you want the game to die? Why do you allways look to the players to pick up the slack and not the design? If people are just stacking 50K magblades that's a failing of the content and the system and both need overhauled anyway.
That's a failing of the balance team. Magblades are grossly overperforming.
It was only a year ago, before Morrowind, when magblades were literally the weakest mag spec, and I was pushed to learn how to sorc instead of bringing my mnb main to raids.
What changed was subtle... Fixes to make to the toolkit lots clunky. No outright buffs. What is unique about the nightblade is that they have a high skill ceiling. They shine only when well played, with perfect weaving. The average player who can't weave well will likely find that they will do more damage on another class than on a nb. This makes nerfs difficult. The recent Strife cost nerf, for example, does not really affect the strongest players, but will affect the average player more. I.e., most nerfs will drop the floor more than the ceiling, which is bad for most of the game.
Or to put it another way, mnbs over perform only at the top, and I've seen many players who try mnb because it's the "meta" find that they do less damage than before, and potential nerfs will mostly affect the general player (for whom mnb is not overperforming).
Their dominance in AS and CR are largely content design issues, where the offhealing that was previously unimportant became vital for that content.
In any case, on the topic of power creep, the main buffs to power are class agnostic. Light attack rescaling, psijic skills, and gearing changes buffed all classes, and there are pretty impressive parses from all classes, though people choose to showcase this new power in mnbs because the content design calls for their heals.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS should just nerf the overperforming classes, like magicka NB. If they lowered every class to the level of magicka warden and magicka templar, content would get a lot harder.
When all the top groups are just stacking magblades and their 50k+ DPS, no *** the content becomes trivial.
And then everyone would leave.
Because nobody likes arbitrarily losing ability. Especially when the problem could likely just as easily be solved by tacking on another difficulty option something people like you have vehemently shot down in the past.
Why do you want the game to die? Why do you allways look to the players to pick up the slack and not the design? If people are just stacking 50K magblades that's a failing of the content and the system and both need overhauled anyway.
That's a failing of the balance team. Magblades are grossly overperforming.
Well good for them.
Tack on another difficulty mode and suddenly they'll be just right. Oh, no they wont, because the screaming with you people never friggin' ends.
The only poster I ever see screaming in these threads is you. People have civil debates, then you enter, screaming at the top of your virtual lungs, about something no one is arguing about.
Keep raising the bar on content you have mastered before most others even get there? No thanks.
Shad0wfire99 wrote: »Wrong analogy. The TE wants the basket to be at 20ft, because 10ft is easy enough that everyone would enjoy it, and thats unacceptable.Shad0wfire99 wrote: »
I see your point. I'm tired of basketball goals being 10ft. Those elitiist players that can dunk on a 10ft goal are ruining it for those of us that can only dunk on an 8ft goal.
MaddPowered wrote: »This will be my last post on the forums. I have gone back and re read comments and have realized that what i posted was absolutely ridiculous and nothing needs to be changed. For those of you who figured out my @name in game, I ask that you stop sending me hate tells in game thank you very much. I appreciate all of the thoughts and time people put into this post,
MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS should just nerf the overperforming classes, like magicka NB. If they lowered every class to the level of magicka warden and magicka templar, content would get a lot harder.
When all the top groups are just stacking magblades and their 50k+ DPS, no *** the content becomes trivial.
And then everyone would leave.
Because nobody likes arbitrarily losing ability. Especially when the problem could likely just as easily be solved by tacking on another difficulty option something people like you have vehemently shot down in the past.
Why do you want the game to die? Why do you allways look to the players to pick up the slack and not the design? If people are just stacking 50K magblades that's a failing of the content and the system and both need overhauled anyway.
That's a failing of the balance team. Magblades are grossly overperforming.
It was only a year ago, before Morrowind, when magblades were literally the weakest mag spec, and I was pushed to learn how to sorc instead of bringing my mnb main to raids.
What changed was subtle... Fixes to make to the toolkit lots clunky. No outright buffs. What is unique about the nightblade is that they have a high skill ceiling. They shine only when well played, with perfect weaving. The average player who can't weave well will likely find that they will do more damage on another class than on a nb. This makes nerfs difficult. The recent Strife cost nerf, for example, does not really affect the strongest players, but will affect the average player more. I.e., most nerfs will drop the floor more than the ceiling, which is bad for most of the game.
Or to put it another way, mnbs over perform only at the top, and I've seen many players who try mnb because it's the "meta" find that they do less damage than before, and potential nerfs will mostly affect the general player (for whom mnb is not overperforming).
Their dominance in AS and CR are largely content design issues, where the offhealing that was previously unimportant became vital for that content.
In any case, on the topic of power creep, the main buffs to power are class agnostic. Light attack rescaling, psijic skills, and gearing changes buffed all classes, and there are pretty impressive parses from all classes, though people choose to showcase this new power in mnbs because the content design calls for their heals.
But that's still a failing of the balance team. They've created a class that is overpowered at the top level and mediocre at lower levels. That's something they'll need to correct.
If every DPS class was as weak as warden/templar at the top level, content would become markedly more difficult. That seems like the easiest solution to the OP's problem.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS should just nerf the overperforming classes, like magicka NB. If they lowered every class to the level of magicka warden and magicka templar, content would get a lot harder.
When all the top groups are just stacking magblades and their 50k+ DPS, no *** the content becomes trivial.
MaddPowered wrote: »This will be my last post on the forums. I have gone back and re read comments and have realized that what i posted was absolutely ridiculous and nothing needs to be changed. For those of you who figured out my @name in game, I ask that you stop sending me hate tells in game thank you very much. I appreciate all of the thoughts and time people put into this post,
redspecter23 wrote: »I suspect that if ZOS is to address this issue, they'll approach it in a raise the floor/lower the ceiling sort of way. They will probably attempt to bring top end dps down without adjusting the difficulty of end game content. This would be a nerf if you're an endgame player and a relative buff if you're not at that level yet.
At least in theory, that sounds like a great plan. Constantly adjusting the goalposts by retroactively changing all endgame content to make it harder just moves the goalpost for everyone, including those that are just learning their way through the content. This would be a massive blow to those sort of groups, discouraging participation.
My opinion is that I'm fine if older content becomes easier over time due to power creep. Newer content can contain harder challenges more in line to the current power level of top tier players. Over time as old content gets easier relative to the power creep, it becomes accessible to more players. I have no problem with that.
Exactly. Yes. Progression is important, and if we make all vet Trials the same hard difficulty, it cuts off accessibility to anyone wanting to progress through endgame PvE.
It's perfectly fine that older Trials get easier with time. We have 1-2 Trials a year now that keeps that final difficulty goalpost high.
MaddPowered wrote: »Power Creep is a process that sometimes occurs in games where new content slowly outstrip the power of previous alternatives.
With the past few patches, The over all DPS has increased significantly, resulting in the ease of burning through all mechanics that make trials fun.
People are doing pad 5 burns on rakkhat in hard mode. 1 prayer phase twins. 1 add phase varlariel. 7 minute vAS +2 clears. The list goes on and on.
Now I am not complaining about DPS being too high, don't get me wrong. I want DPS to stay exactly where it is. But i think it is time for another buff to all trials. (Much like they did back in Dark Brotherhood and Shadows of the Hist, vr12 > vr16)
It has gotten to the point where every trial in the game now (With the exception of vCR HM) has become too easy. vMoL for example, It used to be the hardest trial in the game but now has gotten to the point where it is one of the easiest. vHoF and vAS HM are on their way to that status too.
I think that it has gotten to the point where there needs to be a revamp to all the current raids in the game. Increase the overall HP of everything, Scale up the damage and maybe add in new mechanics to all fights and add in new loot / sets we can earn from completing the raids. Because as of right now, Vet trials as a whole are not rewarding at all.
Now i get that not all people in this game who raid will agree with me. Some will disagree with me 100%. But i feel like the majority of end game raiders will agree.
Lets hear your thoughts in the comments of this post.
Yeah, I don't think the majority of endgame raiders will agree. Most endgame raiders don't have skins from vHoF, vAS or vCR.
The progression through Trials is murky, but it exists clearly enough to give people in endgame PvE a good roadmap of what goes where. For example, pretty much everyone knows that vet Trials in Craglorn are the easiest in the game. And that's ok, there's no reason they need to be as hard as vCR or vAS. So everyone starts vets in Craglorn. That works just fine.
It's a good thing for there to be vet trials that serve as a stepping stone to harder vet trials. There's no reason for every vet Trial HM to be as hard as the most recent one. We need progression in this game, and that includes endgame PvE.
No
You learn the mechanics and do it a few times of course it will get easier for you. That's what happens when you learn something.
VAA is almost boring at times now that i have done it a few times with a good group.
Try going in there with a bunch of first timers.
It wont be so easy
Adding a third to level of difficulty I can agree with as long as it isnt the only way to get legendary jewlery or otherwise shut off less OP people to stuff. Maybe give that level 2 yellow jewelry or yellow jewelry mats or something like that
MaddPowered wrote: »Power Creep is a process that sometimes occurs in games where new content slowly outstrip the power of previous alternatives.
With the past few patches, The over all DPS has increased significantly, resulting in the ease of burning through all mechanics that make trials fun.
People are doing pad 5 burns on rakkhat in hard mode. 1 prayer phase twins. 1 add phase varlariel. 7 minute vAS +2 clears. The list goes on and on.
Now I am not complaining about DPS being too high, don't get me wrong. I want DPS to stay exactly where it is. But i think it is time for another buff to all trials. (Much like they did back in Dark Brotherhood and Shadows of the Hist, vr12 > vr16)
It has gotten to the point where every trial in the game now (With the exception of vCR HM) has become too easy. vMoL for example, It used to be the hardest trial in the game but now has gotten to the point where it is one of the easiest. vHoF and vAS HM are on their way to that status too.
I think that it has gotten to the point where there needs to be a revamp to all the current raids in the game. Increase the overall HP of everything, Scale up the damage and maybe add in new mechanics to all fights and add in new loot / sets we can earn from completing the raids. Because as of right now, Vet trials as a whole are not rewarding at all.
Now i get that not all people in this game who raid will agree with me. Some will disagree with me 100%. But i feel like the majority of end game raiders will agree.
Lets hear your thoughts in the comments of this post.
MaddPowered wrote: »People are doing pad 5 burns on rakkhat in hard mode. 1 prayer phase twins. 1 add phase varlariel. 7 minute vAS +2 clears. The list goes on and on.
Yes. Absolutely.
I mean, God forbid we actually feel more powerful over time. Pshaw.
::scoffs scoffingly::
Agree with you, but that just won't do for streams and Teh Epeen will it?!greenmachine wrote: »So, if everyone in your trials group has the best possible gear, knows the mechanics like the back of their hand, and it's no longer a challenge, why not invite some players to the group that haven't had a chance to learn the mechanics, or hasn't farmed all the best gear from the trial? That would increase the difficulty for you and open up the content to others.
MaddPowered wrote: »This will be my last post on the forums. I have gone back and re read comments and have realized that what i posted was absolutely ridiculous and nothing needs to be changed. For those of you who figured out my @name in game, I ask that you stop sending me hate tells in game thank you very much. I appreciate all of the thoughts and time people put into this post,
Huge respect @MaddPowered not only for conceding the point, but for reaching out in the first place.
I'm one of those guys in a progression group working our way through vTrial content for the first time. We were just learning rakkhat having finally got past the twins before summerset dropped, and the dps increase was crazy.
Got that vMoL clear next run, though to be honest, I think we would have had it regardless.
Since summerset came out I've been predicting some sort of nerf to magicka dps and relequen. Stamina builds seem fine if you take relequen out of the picture, but my magsorc gained 4k to 5k dps with exactly the same gear and rotation after summerset, which is insane.
Agree with you, but that just won't do for streams and Teh Epeen will it?!