Give us the option for more difficult quests!

TheShadowScout · May 2018

Other

Personally I agree with the notion that some quest-fights are too easy for old hands.

But... they have to be, as to not frustrate newbies (remember Doshia pre-nerf? Like that...)

And adding a function to select "hardmode" questing is iffy in all too many cases, since many of those quest bosses are -not- instanced... which makes fiddling with the boss stats iffy, because how could it be hardmode for one group, without vexing the other who joined the fight a moment later?
And for those battles that are instanced, well, I suspect to make something like that might require a lot of work in balancing and setup on the side of ZOS, as to not favor one class unduely, which they could not charge extra for...

So I am not very convinced the OPs idea is the best way to do this.

...

But...
...what about an individual handicap?

A setting that each player can switch, reducing their character combat power to 90%, 80%, 50%, whatever they feel comfortable with... and in turn, giving special rewards for them only if they fight at reduced power. After all, its more impressive if you win a fight with one hand tied behind your back, so to speaking, right?

That sounds easier, and far more likely to happen, yes? And then it would be everyones choice if they fought all out, or held back for fun and profit, yes?

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

It's essentially like saying ,Oh I'm to fast.Time for a leg amputation.

I would say, more like "Let's run with fifty pounds of weights today, for better training"

Lysette · May 2018

I do not support a higher difficulty option

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

It will never happen. Overland PvE remains a complete rollthrough so that even CP 0 people can faceroll anything. Because dying is not modern anymore, you are not supposed to die in a game anymore. Modern day developers must prevent their customers from making negative experiences.

I could imagine there will be tomes or something like that to trigger hardmode for overland worldbosses in content to come, doubtful though. TESO has wonderful lore and conversation in its quests, all fights however are boring. I pity those who just rush through and don't breathe the lore etc. because that's all there is. One Tamriel destroyed everything.

Think some people need to learn that death is a part of games that have combat.

No, a roleplaying game is not a first person shooter, where you die all the time until you have figured out how to get through that level. A roleplayer does not want to die, because dying is not what a hero does. Getting through the content with as less deaths as possible is the goal there - that is why I do not like pvp in this game for example, because it is designed for exactly what you said - that death is a part of it and on top of it, it does not even have consequences - but that is not an RPG like approach to it. If death is a normal thing in pvp, than the design of it is crap - it should be possible to never get killed, if one is a really good player. In EVE for example I did pvp intensively for like 2.5 years in wormhole space and I never got killed, there is no corpse of mine in that game - I lost ships, yes, but even those were just 2 within 9 years and those were my own fault - I lost one in a gank, where I basically "knew instinctively" that there will be a gank, but I went in nevertheless - and the other was just pure laziness to do it in the correct way - I just thought, well, him or me, let's see ... and of course it didn't work out with my main weapon (drones) far away from me - but beside those 2 things, I can proudly say, I am undefeated yet. But that is my way to approach it - I do not want to die, and if death is a part of the game, well, then it is the death of others, not mine.

Mannix1958 · May 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

if you find game too easy. take off your equipment and replacement them with level 1 none set, white gear. if you still find it too easy, reset your champion level. if you still find it too easy solo craglorn with above gear set.

Someone says this every time a thread like this gets posted. I've never understood it. Why should new content require veteran players to manually circumvent the game's intended progression mechanics in order to be enjoyable?

Because it’s a simple solution that doesn’t change the game for anyone else to accommodate one person. I’ve done it many times. It’s fun and challenging.

Besides, if they made it more difficult there would either need to be difficulty realms that split the player base resulting in ghost towns or we’d have pre-nerf Doshia to deal with for anyone who is new/leveling an alt.

But the poll describes an option you'd never have to turn on....it would require code but would not change your game experience,,,,you could do naked delves all day long if you like.

mocap · May 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

lmao reading comments like "if you think game is easy, then go vMA naked". Basically this mean, that ESO has only incredibly easy content and incredibly hard. Nothing middle.

Mannix1958 · May 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

DanteYoda wrote: »

If its too easy go play something thats aimed at your difficulty levels, stop trying ruin the game for everyone else.

How does giving others an option...like toggle that does not affect you...ruin your game play? Please explain...are you crushed every time groups you are unaware of choose to do hard mode?

MehrunesFlagon · May 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

We'll guess what as a veteran player my paid for slice of the pie is way too small.

It really isn't and I wish I could more adequately explain this to you. Considering the size of your demographic, what's actually in The Elder Scrolls Online already is beyond generous. That's why you're just coming across as entitled. If your demographic was larger, you'd be more entitled. The truth is is that you aren't where most of the money is coming from and ZeniMax Media is a business.

If they catered to you, they'd lose 95 per cent of the in-game community, easily, and in short order. It's happened to other games and it'll happen again. Will you feel as though you're getting your money's worth when the game is placed on life support where the developers can't even afford to develop content for it any more? Look how many MMOs that's happened to whenever the developer has focused too much on the min/maxer quotient. Developers may finally be wising up to the realisation that most players don't enjoy min-maxing, excessive grind, forced grouping, PvP, or unreasonable difficulty.

There are minorities for each of these things, absolutely, but they are minorities. That's why there are only a scant handful of games which appeal to hardcore players, many of which are failing or have failed. This is versus the success that 'themepark' titles enjoy when they understand and appeal to their primary demographic. And you're playing one of those 'themepark' titles you so detest right now. If this game isn't suited to you, why not find one that is? Why ruin it for those who love it?

Because the hardcore min-maxers will kill it with their ceaseless demands. Everyone else will just get fed up and leave. It always happens. And then the game is put on life-support, the hardcore people get whinier and whinier but the developers can't do anything about it. So they leave. They leave to move onto the next game to do that to. What I don't understand is why? There have to be better suited games out there, why do this?

And their logic is what is putting me off as well - overpowering themselves and then whine about the game being too easy. They could just use normal gear sets, which gives them normal power and they could enjoy it again - but no, they want power-creep instead, which is known to ruin a game.

The problem is even with those sets simply knowing the game mechanics makes these fights a joke. For example, when I'm wanting to move through a dungeon fast I equip a set of jail breaker which is a stam set and change out three of my back bar skills. Even with a set that is doing nothing for me in combat things just melt and still have no chance of killing me.

Ever mean t o grab a set out of the bank and be running whatever.Then realize you didn't grab it 2 hours later.If you can you around in 50% of your gear without realizing it.I don't think removing the rest is really going to make that much of a difference.So please stop suggesting take off gear/switch off cp.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2018

I do not support a higher difficulty option

Arobain wrote: »

dont understand how you can say no to OPTIONAL high difficulty, like da ***?

Even it if it optional in theory, it won't be optional in reality. Because people will whine and ask for "higher rewards for harder content", which in turn will lead to the entire game being balanced around those higher rewards, and so on.
Also, in order to feel like a community we have to share the same space and play the same game. Instanced overland is not good.

Mannix1958 · May 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

If its too easy go play something thats aimed at your difficulty levels, stop trying ruin the game for everyone else.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/option?s=t

The OP suggested an OPTION for more difficult content. Nobody suggested forcing you to do anything. The only one trying to force their gameplay style onto others here is you (suggesting that we shouldn't play this game if we want content that's different from what you enjoy).

It'd still break up the playerbase for no reason if there wasn't a new instance for it, and depending on how many people would actually use it, it's hard to justify puting dev time to it if the actual size of the audience is microscopic.

You're opinion requires it to be actually used by more than five hundred people.

Let's start with you first point Explain how it breaks up the playerbase w/o an instance?

The second point would be valid but you have no idea the size of the pool just as I don't so you calling it microscopic is the same as me calling it massive. Whether it merits resources is a dev decision this is just a poll asking should it be considered.

On the very last I would wager more than 500 would use it...look at all who choose hardmode in Vet dungeons but then again we're both making up data at that point and its poor logic.

Lysette · May 2018

I do not support a higher difficulty option

It is not as if power-creep would not be know by the devs - since the early days of MUDs this is a known thing and just scaling up the content will not make it any better, but regardless how high you scale it, people will either outgear the diffculty or whine that it is too hard now and "give us better sets to farm" and stuff like that - powercreep is bad and not worth the effort.

If the game is too easy for you, it is your fault - you overpowered and outgeared yourself - and if not that, then it is your fault as well, having chosen a game, which is designed to cater a majority to which you obviously don't belong then - so it might just not be for you anymore and you will have to move on - or accept, that you won't find challenges everywhere in this game. Maybe it is time to accept, that "end game" means for you "end of game" - because you have consumed the content in full.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

Lysette wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

if you find game too easy. take off your equipment and replacement them with level 1 none set, white gear. if you still find it too easy, reset your champion level. if you still find it too easy solo craglorn with above gear set.

I see this logic coming back regardless how flawed it is.
The skills, gear, champion points a player gets along the ride is for a reason: that's how you can physchologically convert your game experience and learning to be an achievement.
If the game does not offer any options in 90% of the content (like overland) to challenge your achievements and status overall, the whole meaning of playing is lost on that same 90%.
Have you ever seen any olympic runner for example who became a champion once to run backwards in the next race just to feel it more challenging? Of course not. Because it would not be creative but stupid to the core.
Same here or in every game: in order for a game to be engaging, the game has to challenge the status and achievements of the player the game is feeding with the other hand. Having a "vet mode" overland would just do that (with a little more extra reward) while those not ready yet could still feel epic cutting themselves through the defult overland difficulty.

I know it's no point explaining this for a lot of western movie hero who shoot the "No. Just no."-bullets nor for anyone who really believes that if I do a content naked it'd solve any issue but hey, I did what I could here.

It's essentially like saying ,Oh I'm to fast.Time for a leg amputation.

In the end that is a problem like we had it before One Tamriel as well -there one could easily outlevel the content in a zone before the zone content was even done once and so it was not fun anymore and one moved to the next harder zone, just to experience the same there at a later time. With One Tamriel all overland content is now at about an even difficulty but you can still "outgear" the content easily. So the responsibility to make it fun now is on the player - if he/she is overpowering him/herself, it is again not fun to play and even a harder difficulty will just solve this for like a couple of weeks, then these kind of players will again have "outgeared" this higher difficulty - that is power-creep and not good for a game. And it solves nothing - what is solving it is, that we as the player have to grasp, that if we "outgear" ourselves, we are ruining the fun.

The same is valid even for a single player game and I have experienced it many times in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim as well as in the Fallout games. It is not the fault of the game design,when I stop having fun, it was my own behavior which made it less fun - because I overpowered and outgeared myself and everything was a cake walk then, because I made myself god-like. That is why you basically have to "amputate that leg", to reuse your phrase, or it will not be fun - as long as you tend to overpower yourself in relation to the content given, you will never be happy with it - regardless what ZOS is trying, your own behavior will shortly ruin the fun for you again - so yes, temporarily "amputate that leg", if you want a challenge.

Do you realize the flaw in your second paragraph? @Lysette

First off, gathering powerful artifacts in single player TES games was always fun and something that at best requires a bit of skill to get, a specific level to even obtain (oblivion) or to not being outleveled in time (Skyrim). You got them by doing quests/ playing actual story content. Not by a horrific grind.

However, the crux is, as soon as you feel too powerul in other TES games bc you obtained those gearparts, you could always push the difficulty slider to the right. No reason to not use the gear you worked for, no reason to amputate a leg. It’s just what people ask for ESO as well.

Lysette · May 2018

I do not support a higher difficulty option

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

if you find game too easy. take off your equipment and replacement them with level 1 none set, white gear. if you still find it too easy, reset your champion level. if you still find it too easy solo craglorn with above gear set.

I see this logic coming back regardless how flawed it is.
The skills, gear, champion points a player gets along the ride is for a reason: that's how you can physchologically convert your game experience and learning to be an achievement.
If the game does not offer any options in 90% of the content (like overland) to challenge your achievements and status overall, the whole meaning of playing is lost on that same 90%.
Have you ever seen any olympic runner for example who became a champion once to run backwards in the next race just to feel it more challenging? Of course not. Because it would not be creative but stupid to the core.
Same here or in every game: in order for a game to be engaging, the game has to challenge the status and achievements of the player the game is feeding with the other hand. Having a "vet mode" overland would just do that (with a little more extra reward) while those not ready yet could still feel epic cutting themselves through the defult overland difficulty.

I know it's no point explaining this for a lot of western movie hero who shoot the "No. Just no."-bullets nor for anyone who really believes that if I do a content naked it'd solve any issue but hey, I did what I could here.

It's essentially like saying ,Oh I'm to fast.Time for a leg amputation.

In the end that is a problem like we had it before One Tamriel as well -there one could easily outlevel the content in a zone before the zone content was even done once and so it was not fun anymore and one moved to the next harder zone, just to experience the same there at a later time. With One Tamriel all overland content is now at about an even difficulty but you can still "outgear" the content easily. So the responsibility to make it fun now is on the player - if he/she is overpowering him/herself, it is again not fun to play and even a harder difficulty will just solve this for like a couple of weeks, then these kind of players will again have "outgeared" this higher difficulty - that is power-creep and not good for a game. And it solves nothing - what is solving it is, that we as the player have to grasp, that if we "outgear" ourselves, we are ruining the fun.

The same is valid even for a single player game and I have experienced it many times in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim as well as in the Fallout games. It is not the fault of the game design,when I stop having fun, it was my own behavior which made it less fun - because I overpowered and outgeared myself and everything was a cake walk then, because I made myself god-like. That is why you basically have to "amputate that leg", to reuse your phrase, or it will not be fun - as long as you tend to overpower yourself in relation to the content given, you will never be happy with it - regardless what ZOS is trying, your own behavior will shortly ruin the fun for you again - so yes, temporarily "amputate that leg", if you want a challenge.

Do you realize the flaw in your second paragraph? @Lysette

First off, gathering powerful artifacts in single player TES games was always fun and something that at best requires a bit of skill to get, a specific level to even obtain (oblivion) or to not being outleveled in time (Skyrim). You got them by doing quests/ playing actual story content. Not by a horrific grind.

However, the crux is, as soon as you feel too powerul in other TES games bc you obtained those gearparts, you could always push the difficulty slider to the right. No reason to not use the gear you worked for, no reason to amputate a leg. It’s just what people ask for ESO as well.

In Oblivion I tended to be overpowered once I was accepted into the mage academy for example - and what did I do then?- I bought normal clothes and heavily enchanted them, I put attribute absorb spells on my weapons, which basically sucked the life out of my opponents while making me more of a god at the same time - the more I hit and the faster on them, the more god like I got - well, this was fun for like a day -and then ... I had to put that gear into a container and play with normal gear, because all other would not have been fun - to put the slider to the right did not change a thing - god-like is god-like.

For ESO this means, as long as you min/max and go for the "gear you optained"you are likely to experience the same I experienced in the Oblivion example -that is fun to play like this for a day -but then you have to realize,it is you what is taking the fun out of the game - and change your behavior.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

Except there are more limitations to what you can do in a MMO with PvP than in a comparably unrestricted, modable single player game that gives even less about balance.

Septimus_Magna · May 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

Enemy health and dmg scaling needs to go way up, the quest bosses only have 120k health or whatever. This is not enough to make them feel like a boss, you kill them in a couple seconds even if you only use heavy attacks. Their attacks only hit for 2-3k so you can completely ignore defense because the fights never last long enough to pose a threat.

At first I was for veteran overland mode (just like dungeons) but I dont think thats the right way to go. Players need to get motivated to honor the game's mechanics. Right now you dont have to block, sustain or heal yourself while fighting a quest boss. Ive seen plenty players that dont even how to interrupt or break-free, they still get through all the quests without a problem because its way too easy.

Even if you play Skyrim on Adept (normal difficulty) you cannot kill a Dragon Priest without ignore every single game mechanic. You need to dodge/block/line-of-sight his attacks, heal yourself, interrupt etc.

Punish players for ignoring mechanics like charged attacks and make them deal 16k dmg so they need to heal up to survive the next attack. Punish players for not breaking free, punish players for standing in AOE etc etc. Quest content should prepare players for dungeons, right now the strongest quest boss is weaker than a single skeleton in a veteran dungeon.

Raraaku · May 2018

Other

I voted other.

I would love to see ZOS created two more zones comparable to Craglorn. Such as Murkmire for Ebonheart Pact and maybe an area of Northern Elsweyr that inlcudes Remman and Riverhold.

I understand why they made the changes with OneTamriel patch, but I do think it's important to create at least a few zones with harder content to keep veteran players engaged with overland content instead of having to focus solely on veteran dungeons/trials and only one zone (craglorn) to keep them busy.

Or at the very least, take the ideas of Craglorn and start applying them to new DLC zones like Clockwork City such as group delves, group dailies, and maybe a new group arena.

Craglorn had a lot of great ideas in it.

Lysette · May 2018

I do not support a higher difficulty option

Raraaku wrote: »

I voted other.

I would love to see ZOS created two more zones comparable to Craglorn. Such as Murkmire for Ebonheart Pact and maybe an area of Northern Elsweyr that inlcudes Remman and Riverhold.

I understand why they made the changes with OneTamriel patch, but I do think it's important to create at least a few zones with harder content to keep veteran players engaged with overland content instead of having to focus solely on veteran dungeons/trials and only one zone (craglorn) to keep them busy.

Or at the very least, take the ideas of Craglorn and start applying them to new DLC zones like Clockwork City such as group delves, group dailies, and maybe a new group arena.

Craglorn had a lot of great ideas in it.

This is something I could support and I think that it is a great idea because it keeps the veterans busy and out of the normal zones,so eventually quest enemies are not all dead already when I want to do a quest. I see a huge problem in this, because they melt through the dungeon or delve and take away the challenge for lower level players by murdering all enemies, which are meant to be a challenge for new players, but as corpses they are no longer - so I support all what keeps veterans out of normal zones and keeps them busy somewhere else.

DieAlteHexe · May 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

Options are a good thing. Not sure how much effort it would take to do this but this is an issue that has been beaten to a mush so it's obviously something they should look into. And NO I do not want to go back to how it was at release.

Lysette · May 2018

I do not support a higher difficulty option

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Options are a good thing. Not sure how much effort it would take to do this but this is an issue that has been beaten to a mush so it's obviously something they should look into. And NO I do not want to go back to how it was at release.

What if this is intended by ZOS?- In order to make those, you are reluctant to go into pvp, to try and eventually enjoy it. At least there would be the challenge, which ZOS might want to get them into. I do not like pvp in ESO, but if I would feel, that I have no fun anymore doing overland content because it would be a cake walk all over the place - I would definitely go for pvp and get my butt kicked until I'll learn it. This could really be intentional.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

Lysette wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Options are a good thing. Not sure how much effort it would take to do this but this is an issue that has been beaten to a mush so it's obviously something they should look into. And NO I do not want to go back to how it was at release.

What if this is intended by ZOS?- In order to make those, you are reluctant to go into pvp, to try and eventually enjoy it. At least there would be the challenge, which ZOS might want to get them into. I do not like pvp in ESO, but if I would feel, that I have no fun anymore doing overland content because it would be a cake walk all over the place - I would definitely go for pvp and get my butt kicked until I'll learn it. This could really be intentional.

Ha, that‘s something. Actually it’s the reason why I moved to pvp in the first place. Would be wierd but could be true.

bellatrixed · June 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

This is an MMO...

Honestly I can't think of a single MMO on the market that has genuinely difficult overland combat if you're keeping up with your gear/skills/etc.

You have to kill thousands of mobs just running through a zone to quest or pick up nodes. Most people don't want random trash fight #48334 to feel like you're running a vet dungeon.

I voted yes because I wouldn't mind if it was in but I'm sort of confused by some of these comments. Like, difficult content is in the game... it's called raids and vets and PVP. Not quests, which are meant to be accessible to everyone.

lardvader · June 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

I'm all for it as long as it's optional.

Been playing on my secondary account and also started fresh on PC NA and the game is a lot different without any cp.

Chilly-McFreeze · June 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

bellatrixed wrote: »

This is an MMO...

Honestly I can't think of a single MMO on the market that has genuinely difficult overland combat if you're keeping up with your gear/skills/etc.

You have to kill thousands of mobs just running through a zone to quest or pick up nodes. Most people don't want random trash fight #48334 to feel like you're running a vet dungeon.

I voted yes because I wouldn't mind if it was in but I'm sort of confused by some of these comments. Like, difficult content is in the game... it's called raids and vets and PVP. Not quests, which are meant to be accessible to everyone.

We (I dare to speak for "us") undertand that not everyone wants hard mobs - therefor an optional difficulty increase.

But for your last paragraph: Vet Dungeons and Raids make up only a very small part of the PvE content. Some people actually like to play this game as an RPG, where they do quests to experience a story and a challenge. The latter is totally out of the picture as PvE is now. To a point where questing (besides the great stories it tells) and beating mobs feels more like a chore than an actual fun experience. This doesn't even has to be about every mob you encounter, but at least for the bosses that symbolize the climax of the quest. Atm every quest builds up tension just to end in a complete letdown.

Tl;dr: questing is a huge part of the game, some of us want it to be fun even for veterans.

*completely ignoring pvp here since it's not really comparable to questing*

alenae1b14_ESO · June 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

Regular delves are ridiculously easy atm. It's so bad that If you happen to encounter 2 or 3 mobs as a grouping only 1 of the group attacks while there others stand idly. Summerset dungeons are practically empty of mobs. I'm enjoying the quests, characters and atmosphere of Summerset but there is no challenge or sense of accomplishment to toss a few skills at the boss that dies in less than 10 seconds.

Difficulty settings/choices would be refreshing.

bellatrixed · June 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

But for your last paragraph: Vet Dungeons and Raids make up only a very small part of the PvE content. Some people actually like to play this game as an RPG, where they do quests to experience a story and a challenge. The latter is totally out of the picture as PvE is now. To a point where questing (besides the great stories it tells) and beating mobs feels more like a chore than an actual fun experience. This doesn't even has to be about every mob you encounter, but at least for the bosses that symbolize the climax of the quest. Atm every quest builds up tension just to end in a complete letdown.

Tl;dr: questing is a huge part of the game, some of us want it to be fun even for veterans.

*completely ignoring pvp here since it's not really comparable to questing*

I'm not trying to criticize here, but what is more fun about trash mobs that take longer to kill? To me that would make the questing experience feel even ~more~ tedious.

I'm near max CP and enjoy a challenge as much as the next person but I'm not seeing how making the mobs harder would translate to more fun. I can see it on bosses, sure--it's kind of silly that some of the bosses can be burned down like it's nothing. But I think that's more of an issue with mechanics. Quest bosses should actually require you to follow mechanics instead of spamming til they're dead.

When I first came to ESO, before One Tamriel, I definitely remember some quest bosses being extremely difficult because I had no CP and some were even instanced so I couldn't get help from friends. I didn't find being unable to defeat a boss "fun", I just came back in a few levels when I was stronger and burned it down lol.

But yeah, an optional vet mode for overland would be interesting, I'm just having trouble seeing how they'd do it besides upping the HP on everything so it takes longer...

MercTheMage · June 2018

I support a higher difficulty option

PLEASE!
I love questing, but I'm sick of killing the big bad guy in said quest with 2 freaking light attacks.