A central auction house?

AlnilamE · May 2018

Guild trader system

Raideen wrote: »

I would consider items that come out of containers to be worth something, else they are just there to waste bag space (intended) which forces the player to pay for more bags space, but at 10 gold a boss drop and upgrades costing in the 10's of thousands, its gonna be awhile before jonny no trade guild is able to afford that...unless he pays for them through the crown store.

I'm going to offer a bit of historical context here. When the game first came out, there weapons and gear sitting around were not interactable with. Players complained that this was unnatural and ZOS changed it, but made the items have 0 value. At the same time, for whatever reason, they introduced the white gear in containers. It also has 0 value. It *is* a waste of bag space to pick it up, because it offers almost no inspiration and 0 mats when deconstructed.

DanteYoda · May 2018

Other

No to a central Auction house but yes to having all guild traders in the same place so all guilds have an even selling chance and guilds will all cost the same to setup as they are all in the same area.

EchoirVarsoj · May 2018

Guild trader system

We already have market manipulators, what we would like market manipulators for a global auction house in ESO?
The current guild trading system is good although it needs quality-of-life updates.

This trading system it's pretty unique, makes players to travel so we can get involved with zone activities, farm a little, find good deals at specific guild traders, etc.

Yes, it becomes tedious when you are in a rush, but I can't think of a better trading-activity implementation compared to a global auction house. Just look at other MMOs out there. There are always a few players who from nowhere decide to blow item stocks, make players play their 'game', etc. It would be easier to track how items prices fluctuate, if someone lists an item at a good price it would just get vacuumed (sorry bad English) by bots and so.

jedtb16_ESO · May 2018

Guild trader system

Avalon wrote: »

@jedtb16_ESO
@AlnilamE

I'm guessing, based on your replies, that you don't actually bother reading any of the comments that lead up to where you are in the conversations?

When you have X amount of guilds who ALWAYS have the exact same traders for over 3 years, and each of those have top members with over 200 million gold, that little p***ant guild of 50 has no way of breaking into that system, they simply cannot afford to do so, unless it is a break-away guild that is a shard splitting from one of those major guilds. I wish I could go back in time and take a screenshot of the Stormhaven, Bangkorai, Daggerfall vendors (the primary ones I visit), because they are the EXACT same guilds today. Sure, the ones off in BFE change hands here and there, but the ones that actually OWN the market? Nope, may as well be some friggin Illuminati type thing, they hold their positions, and determine the prices.

And yeah, love the snarky, troll bait reply on the other post, about why things get returned? Yeah, wonderful reply that is just a lot of words to call me a moron, but in all reality, it shows you did NOT read my comment, otherwise, you'd know I already answered your attempt at an insult. If players (other than your own guild) never SEE your item for sale, then they never have a chance to buy it. If the only place it can be seen is at the crossroads of B, F, and E, then NO ONE sees it. If it is only available through the bank teller, then you're selling to your own guild, and no one else. So, YES, your comments are blowing smoke, because it is a fantasy that only a few people get to live.

Also, if you are on PC, kindly move along, because you probably assume that Add-Ons fix everything, and why is everyone complaining? Oh, because we don't have them on console. The fact that add-ons exist to fix broken functionality is PROOF that the system needs fixed.

For my part, all I would really like is a universal AH system that merely tells us WHICH Guild Vendor has the items we are looking for and at what prices. If I have to trot my happy butt out to those crossroads, fine, great! But, I already spend the vast majority of my time trying to sort through pages upon pages of randomized crap on the major traders, I don't have time (and no one else does either) to go hunting down traders that aren't in the major locations. Those traders may as well not even exist, honestly.

Oh, and add the ability to sort alphabetically. Those two things. Easy as can be, we still need the traders then, still have a reason for the prime location traders (just a bit less of a reason, but not much, most will still not want to trudge out into the fields to get a tiny discount).

your first assumption is incorrect.... i read through this thread since its start, as i have read through a lot of other threads on the same topic. it's the same old thing - hence the dead horse memes.

all of the threads on this topic i have seen follow the same general pattern... there will be several walls of text consisting of assumptions and opinions foisted as 'facts', exaggeration and outright dishonesty. this one is no exception.

is the current system perfect?

no, the ui needs a complete overhaul - which i have commented on a number of times, something you would be aware of if you followed your own advice on reading posts.

one factor these threads always do is stress how the current system is being manipulated, price fixing etc - i have been in a number of top guilds and have never been told what price i should charge for anything (anecdote, i know) whilst ignoring the fact the global auction houses are manipulated on a regular basis for the benefit of a few people.

do you really think people here argue against gah without knowing anything about the subject?

Matei · May 2018

Other

Im not bothered with either choice. Im not part of a trading guild since its not my thing. I prefer to give things away and else i will sell it to the nearest vendor. Sure, cash comes in more slowly but i find it irrelevant.

Tamrik · May 2018

Central auction house

I've been giving this some thought since my first post in here and rather than having a central AH system I think a change to the current system would be beneficial overall.

As the guild trader system is unique and offers something in game that is in no other mmo, I get why people don't want a central one. But there is a way that people who don't want to join guilds or try to stay in large trading guilds by funding then each week. Why not give the option for the large trading guilds to open up their traders to others by allowing none members to sell through their traders. There could be a kind of guild alliance system where large guilds can team up with each other to allow more than the 500 player cap and if they choose to have the option to allow anyone to access the trader so they can sell through them member or not.

There could be a selling cap in place to say 5 or 10 listings a week for them. It would give the option of everyone being able to sell, without the need for a central system.

Just a thought

Caoimheal · May 2018

I’m not bothered either way but I do not understand why there’s no search option!

Mirelurk · May 2018

I've been on these forums for four years ... and every single day there is a post like this.

Jeez, stop flogging a dead horse.

Tamrik · May 2018

Central auction house

Mirelurk wrote: »

I've been on these forums for four years ... and every single day there is a post like this.

Jeez, stop flogging a dead horse.

Dead horse or not, things do need to change with it, it's needed changing since original beta. Without these posts things will never change, they might not anyway, but I get why people keep trying.

Even if we never get a central AH or changes in a similar style, the least we need is a search function and a better UI. It's just lazy programming to expect everyone to use add-ons to make it functional.

efduncanub17_ESO · May 2018

Guild trader system

I enjoy the more realistic economy of the guild traders.

zaria · May 2018

Guild trader system

Main issue with trading in ESO is the lack of search. Awesome guild stores give an very good template, much more filters including know motifs and recipes and text search, you also has an search history so you can search multiple traders for multiple items fast.
That missing is server side search, also an easier way to use it to find price level, say you select an motif like ebonshadow boots, now search for all ebonshadow motifs and you get an price level at trader.
An global action house without good search tools would obviously don't work as you will get hundreds of more items than in an guild trader.

As for an global action house, this will benefit causal players as its easy to use. It would not benefit sellers unless you farm hard to get and expensive items like BA.
Two effects, first is that you have limited sale slots and lots of competition and underbidding so prices on items who is not this month bis would be close to vendor price. With guild traders you would easy buy something with an estimated price of 500 for 900 as its not worth it browsing multiple traders.
For rare items this would be inverted, here its worth it to hang on to the item hoping for an good price,

DamenAJ · May 2018

Tamrik wrote: »

Mirelurk wrote: »

I've been on these forums for four years ... and every single day there is a post like this.

Jeez, stop flogging a dead horse.

Dead horse or not, things do need to change with it, it's needed changing since original beta. Without these posts things will never change, they might not anyway, but I get why people keep trying.

Even if we never get a central AH or changes in a similar style, the least we need is a search function and a better UI. It's just lazy programming to expect everyone to use add-ons to make it functional.

And yet it's about 50/50 every time this poll happens it seems, which means half the forum thinks it doesn't need to change.

I wouldn't mind search functions in the guild traders, but that would probably need a whole different thread to address it.

Pixel_Zealot · May 2018

Central auction house

Still need to be convinced the benefits of the current system vs a central AH. The current system 'causes a lot of value gaps across the segmented traders, which a lot of people use daily to get-rich-quick. Not to mention the user experience barrier.

Sylosi · May 2018

Central auction house

The guild trader system might be okay in a hardcore game (EVE Online type game for example) but in a themepark MMORPG it is bad, because for the majority of players it is the worst option.

At the most basic level that is in terms of quality of life, trying to find a specific item can be ridiculous, in a global AH that is obviously much easier.

Then you have price manipulation, now I see some nonsense that this does not occur in ESO or that someone has been in top guilds and never heard of it, the fact people think you need to do this at a guild level just shows they have no clue, you can do it the same way as a global AH (granted in ESO it is better if you have a small group of people), you just pick some rare item with limited supply you buy it up then list on whatever guilds you are in at a much higher agreed price.

The ESO system is basically like an oligopoly at best, a cartel at worst on the limited supply of good trader spots, where big guilds not only hoover up the best spots but also many of the next best with second or third guilds. (and let's not even go into how the bidding system can be abused...)

Essentially you have a system that is easier to corrupt through the limited supply of guild traders and that obfuscates information about the economy due to how painful it is to use for most players, this is bad for the majority of ESO players.

Minyassa · May 2018

Central auction house

I was pretty sanguine about the way things are in the game, though I considered it weird and didn't (and still don't) see the point of the current setup. I got un-sanguine about it real damn quick the week my trade guild didn't win their bid and I had no way to sell anything (aside from sitting around a zone with annoying spammy advertisements, which I am not going to do because they are annoying and spammy) for a week. Kind of a dumb system when you HAVE to belong to a guild that is ALWAYS successful in bidding, or belong to more than one trade guild, in order to sell anything. I get that this is one of the more draconian MMOs in trying to enforce social interaction, but to make the whole guild system about being able to sell that one motif you find a month if you're not a farmer is kind of stressful.

They could at least make a public game-run guild with set membership dues to allow filthy casuals to sell their handful of things without having to worry about gambling on which and how many serious trade guilds they have to spend guild slots on.

kwisatz · May 2018

Guild trader system

AlnilamE wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

Failing that then global auction house would make life easier for everyone at the cost of guild trader leaders and people who appreciate the system. Will be a majority/minority situation. I don't think lack of a global auction house is enough reason to cause mass quit / disinsterest in a game though.

The problem with that is that, as others have pointed out, ESO is the only game that has such a unique system. So if they decided to make an Auction House instead, the people who enjoy the system would not have anywhere to go.

Whereas the people who prefer an Auction House have many games to choose from, like GW2, BDO, WoW and others that have been mentioned.

I have been here since the game released on PC. I would uninstall the game.

Pretty much this.

I have to mention that I'm not a heavy trader, although I've been almost since launch part of several Trade Guilds (one at a time) with problem only once, because the new guild master of one of those rose the "minimum weekly sales or kick" to a 50k amount I couldn't reach.
I never had any problem to find a new trade guild when I needed it: just asking to friends and guildies, or give a try at one advertising by /zone (my current one, reasonable conditions, good trader spot, was found that way).
Once or twice a month, I dedicate 1 hour o so to search bargains at not-so-good-spot traders, and sometimes it pays, sometimes not, but it's an immersive and funny way to play or roleplay the trade system.

After two decades of MMOs, it's the very first time I enjoy trading.
I hated games where you have to stand spamming chat in a major city; I hated games with global auction houses dominated by a few; I always been poor in those games and although I'm not specially rich in ESO, I'm having fun with this system.

RaddlemanNumber7 · May 2018

Other

Any secure means to sell stuff to other players that doesn't involve a guild or an interface that can be exploited by trolls and thieves.

JJBoomer · May 2018

Central auction house

I wouldn't mind a central trading house. I mean the trader system isn't horrible, but there are some serious cons for me.

1) if you're not in a guild, you have no hope of selling anything. Which should not be the case. I get the "social" argument of having to join a guild in order to sell. The downside being that trading guilds are rarely that social. And actual social guilds are too poor to acquire traders so selling in those is still very difficult.

2) Sometimes the requirements (i.e. minimum sales amount) to be allowed in a trading guild is ridiculous. Especially if you are a casual seller who only sells when you actually need gold. Basically having to "prove" that you are worthy to sell, to be decided by other players with extreme bias, not very appealing.

3) if you're guild does not have a guild trader, then selling is a long and tedious process.

So yes, I'm all for a central trading house feature. This way, trading/selling would be mainstreamed, and guilds could be more focused on being a social aspect instead of a business one.

Tamrik · May 2018

Central auction house

JJBoomer wrote: »

I wouldn't mind a central trading house. I mean the trader system isn't horrible, but there are some serious cons for me.

1) if you're not in a guild, you have no hope of selling anything. Which should not be the case. I get the "social" argument of having to join a guild in order to sell. The downside being that trading guilds are rarely that social. And actual social guilds are too poor to acquire traders so selling in those is still very difficult.

2) Sometimes the requirements (i.e. minimum sales amount) to be allowed in a trading guild is ridiculous. Especially if you are a casual seller who only sells when you actually need gold. Basically having to "prove" that you are worthy to sell, to be decided by other players with extreme bias, not very appealing.

3) if you're guild does not have a guild trader, then selling is a long and tedious process.

So yes, I'm all for a central trading house feature. This way, trading/selling would be mainstreamed, and guilds could be more focused on being a social aspect instead of a business one.

This is basically what I said. It's a big problem when you have to prove yourself worthy of being in a guild and being forced to sell X amount or donate X amount every week in order to be able to sell anything in the game. And even if you do sell weekly, alot of the bigger trading guilds will still kick you of you miss their set tagger by 1k under etc. The whole system is geared towards hardcore players and guilds who dominate the market now and casual players don't stand a chance in being able to compete or sell.

The idea that it forces players to be social doesn't work anymore either as you've started, the big trading guilds aren't social places, they just function as an AH and people don't tend to speak in them.

It's a shame, something needs to change, whether that's in the form of a central AH I don't know but the current system is broken

xarguideb17_ESO · May 2018

Central auction house

The necessity to be in a guild just to sell your loot to other players is what partially drives me away from this game. I want to play casually. Sometimes I cannot log in for more than a week. That will cause me to be kicked out from any active guild though.

Raideen · May 2018

Central auction house

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

The necessity to be in a guild just to sell your loot to other players is what partially drives me away from this game. I want to play casually. Sometimes I cannot log in for more than a week. That will cause me to be kicked out from any active guild though.

Exactly this!

I was just kicked out of a trade guild because I took a vacation. I should not have to express my real life plans inside of a game to maintain my ability to sell goods. Now I have to prove myself to another good trade guild, if there are even slots open.

Being able to sell freely in an MMORPG should be part of the buy in price, not an exclusive right to only those who are deemed worthy.

Spottswoode · May 2018

Other

DuskMarine wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

we do not need a central auction house well never need one quit trying to add one. the cons overload the pros and just destroy games entire economy as no one will sell on it cause theres no point and the ones who would have bought everything for cheap and are selling for over 500% the original price. so no this would kill the game keep it out

Kill the game yet WoW has had it for the past 14 years, FF14 8 years, Swtor 7 years, GW 2 6 years, NW 5 years, Lotro 11 years

I'm sorry but the whole argument of a centralized market that kills games is wrong

who actually uses it?? barely anybody except guys that corner the market. this happens youll never be able to get your hands on endgame mats cause the higher levels with money in the 10s of millions will buy it all up and sell it back to you for 500% of the price. so yes it will kill this aspect of the game and make a economy weve spent years developing completely worthless because casuals are to scared to join a trading guild.

I'm in 2. I'm not the only one.
There are about 150 traders and some are locked behind paywalls, which means they don't have access to the whole market of players. But with 150 traders, that means there's a maximum of 75000 slots for players to trade in. You can be sure there aren't 75000 players in trading guilds. More are added with each expansion, but each trader only represents a max of 500 players.
Sellers actively engage in price gouging (no, 100k for a staff that was worth 500 a week ago is not fair just because of the staff update) , make poor use of location (I look at the Venomous Fens trader in particular. If there's one thing you can definitely sell at that site, it's mats. And they almost never have any.), and use a data collection tool as if it's an exact calculation of supply and demand. (And not just what around 2000 people they share a guild with have sold it for.)
There's not really any good arguments for the current system. The arrangement is just not fair to anyone.

The easiest path would be to allow a third party site like the Warframe market to connect buyers and sellers. We can still have a benefit with the guild traders, given that they would be accessible at all hours.

Cpt_Teemo · May 2018

Central auction house

Raideen wrote: »

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

The necessity to be in a guild just to sell your loot to other players is what partially drives me away from this game. I want to play casually. Sometimes I cannot log in for more than a week. That will cause me to be kicked out from any active guild though.

Exactly this!

I was just kicked out of a trade guild because I took a vacation. I should not have to express my real life plans inside of a game to maintain my ability to sell goods. Now I have to prove myself to another good trade guild, if there are even slots open.

Being able to sell freely in an MMORPG should be part of the buy in price, not an exclusive right to only those who are deemed worthy.

Exactly, works for the largest mmo's on the market so I really don't see why people disagree with it

themaddaedra · May 2018

Guild trader system

Looks pretty much like just another yearning to kill diversity. I feel like i must remind here that ESO is ESO, not WoW or not SWTOR or whatsoever. How can one say other games have it then expect this to make literal sense? I legit don't care what other games do.

I love guild trader system, i love my trading guild and the effort to keep it in slot. I love helping our gm for guild house to have all stations/dummies/mundus stones. Without the guild trader system none of these would be as affective as they are now.

I literally have zero interest in auction house.

Cpt_Teemo · May 2018

Central auction house

themaddaedra wrote: »

Looks pretty much like just another yearning to kill diversity. I feel like i must remind here that ESO is ESO, not WoW or not SWTOR or whatsoever. How can one say other games have it then expect this to make literal sense? I legit don't care what other games do.

I love guild trader system, i love my trading guild and the effort to keep it in slot. I love helping our gm for guild house to have all stations/dummies/mundus stones. Without the guild trader system none of these would be as affective as they are now.

I literally have zero interest in auction house.

I love playing 24/7 just to search the current market too

themaddaedra · May 2018

Guild trader system

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Looks pretty much like just another yearning to kill diversity. I feel like i must remind here that ESO is ESO, not WoW or not SWTOR or whatsoever. How can one say other games have it then expect this to make literal sense? I legit don't care what other games do.

I love guild trader system, i love my trading guild and the effort to keep it in slot. I love helping our gm for guild house to have all stations/dummies/mundus stones. Without the guild trader system none of these would be as affective as they are now.

I literally have zero interest in auction house.

I love playing 24/7 just to search the current market too

Looks like l2p issue

Jokes aside tho, that has never been a problem to me. Whenever i need high end stuff i know it's %99 possibility i can find it in Craglorn, and for low end stuff it's Stormhaven/Deshaan/Reaper's March.

Never had to run around for stuff. Apart from times where i wanted to hunt cheap items to make some juicy cash. Tho that's nothing to do with the system being bad, if not good.

shadowwraith666 · May 2018

Central auction house

On console both Neverwinter nights and Star trek online have a central AH/exchange where ALL players can put stuff up for sale without the need to join a guild/clan, NWO uses premium in-game currency (astral diamonds) on the auction house whereas STO uses standard credits in the exchange.

the guild/clan system is separate from the AH/exchange but you can still trade with other players directly via the text chat, the market system on both games works very well because this separation.

the system in ESO makes joining a guild more of a necessity than an optional feature if you want to sell stuff to other players, a central AH/store would be a huge benefit to players that do not want to join a player guild for whatever reason.

Tandor · May 2018

Central auction house

themaddaedra wrote: »

Looks pretty much like just another yearning to kill diversity. I feel like i must remind here that ESO is ESO, not WoW or not SWTOR or whatsoever. How can one say other games have it then expect this to make literal sense? I legit don't care what other games do.

I love guild trader system, i love my trading guild and the effort to keep it in slot. I love helping our gm for guild house to have all stations/dummies/mundus stones. Without the guild trader system none of these would be as affective as they are now.

I literally have zero interest in auction house.

It makes sense because a public trading system isn't part of the story of the game in a way that would distinguish it from other games, it's simply a core function within the support services of the game. The fact that most other MMOs have introduced some form of auction house and stuck with it through many years is a good indication of its appeal and practicality.

Sure there are those who love the uniqueness of the present guild trader system, but my hunch is that most of them rely very heavily on the addons that are denied to two-thirds of the traders in the game.

I wish we could get ZOS to disable all trading addons for a month followed by a full launcher-based poll of all players on whether they support the permanent continuation of the present system under those conditions. I think we can all guess what the outcome would be!

shadowwraith666 · May 2018

Central auction house

themaddaedra wrote: »

I love guild trader system, i love my trading guild and the effort to keep it in slot. I love helping our gm for guild house to have all stations/dummies/mundus stones. Without the guild trader system none of these would be as affective as they are now.

you could still keep the guild system and have an auction house, the 2 systems can co-exist in the same game, the ones that are against this are the guilds that want to keep the monopoly over other guilds and refuse to budge·

themaddaedra · May 2018

Guild trader system

Tandor wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Looks pretty much like just another yearning to kill diversity. I feel like i must remind here that ESO is ESO, not WoW or not SWTOR or whatsoever. How can one say other games have it then expect this to make literal sense? I legit don't care what other games do.

I love guild trader system, i love my trading guild and the effort to keep it in slot. I love helping our gm for guild house to have all stations/dummies/mundus stones. Without the guild trader system none of these would be as affective as they are now.

I literally have zero interest in auction house.

It makes sense because a public trading system isn't part of the story of the game in a way that would distinguish it from other games, it's simply a core function within the support services of the game. The fact that most other MMOs have introduced some form of auction house and stuck with it through many years is a good indication of its appeal and practicality.

Sure there are those who love the uniqueness of the present guild trader system, but my hunch is that most of them rely very heavily on the addons that are denied to two-thirds of the traders in the game.

I wish we could get ZOS to disable all trading addons for a month followed by a full launcher-based poll of all players on whether they support the permanent continuation of the present system under those conditions. I think we can all guess what the outcome would be!

Looks like you are ok to take away the joy of other people to prove your point also makes sense too. Ok.

I'm not using Master Merchant fyi btw, i just deleted it when i noticed it was killing my game's performance hard. I'm pretty fine without it.