Is ZOS ever going to introduce Spell Schools?
SkillzMFG
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The fact that the developers didn't implement TES style Spell Schools into the game from the very beginning puzzles me. This is one of the core aspects of any TES game just like the Weapon Skill lines are. I really don't understand why would they limit magicka users in this way?
Binding a certain spell school to a staff is a terrible idea, staves should change depending on your specialization, not the other way around. Also restricting a spell school to a class is a bad idea. Right now if you want to use a certain type of magic (let's say lightning) you are bound to play a Sorcerer. If you want ice spells you're just gonna have to roll a warden etc...This is ridiculous and it feels very limiting. Sure a Class should have identity and it should excel at a certain type of damage(or a role - whatever), but there are other ways to do that aside from locking a certain spell type behind a class. Now I'm not saying we should remove classes, I think they are okay but they could use some rework.
Now of course, people will complain about balance. There can never be balance! You just have to 'git gud' and deal with it. I've been playing this game since early beta stages and it was never even close to being balanced. This is the same with any MMO, each patch there is a dominant class/build. There was always someone who would one shot you and there was always someone who refused to die no matter how hard you hit him. Letting people use 'Fireball' instead of 'Crystal Fragments' won't ruin your precious balance too much, after all it would just be kind of a re-skin of the spell.
I get that ZOS doesn't want everyone to be able to play however they want from the start - that wouldn't bring them enough money. Resto Skill line was smashed together with the Psijic skill line and was locked behind a paywall. That will only get you so far ZOS, people will soon be very pissed that they have to pay 500$ just to unlock the content that should be BASIC in any TES game. I think I'm not the only one who wants this, since the people I've spoken to mostly agree with me on this subject.
EDIT: INB4 'LMAO NO' and 'Beating a dead horse' witty replies.
Edited by SkillzMFG on May 26, 2018 2:28PM Binding a certain spell school to a staff is a terrible idea, staves should change depending on your specialization, not the other way around. Also restricting a spell school to a class is a bad idea. Right now if you want to use a certain type of magic (let's say lightning) you are bound to play a Sorcerer. If you want ice spells you're just gonna have to roll a warden etc...This is ridiculous and it feels very limiting. Sure a Class should have identity and it should excel at a certain type of damage(or a role - whatever), but there are other ways to do that aside from locking a certain spell type behind a class. Now I'm not saying we should remove classes, I think they are okay but they could use some rework.
Now of course, people will complain about balance. There can never be balance! You just have to 'git gud' and deal with it. I've been playing this game since early beta stages and it was never even close to being balanced. This is the same with any MMO, each patch there is a dominant class/build. There was always someone who would one shot you and there was always someone who refused to die no matter how hard you hit him. Letting people use 'Fireball' instead of 'Crystal Fragments' won't ruin your precious balance too much, after all it would just be kind of a re-skin of the spell.
I get that ZOS doesn't want everyone to be able to play however they want from the start - that wouldn't bring them enough money. Resto Skill line was smashed together with the Psijic skill line and was locked behind a paywall. That will only get you so far ZOS, people will soon be very pissed that they have to pay 500$ just to unlock the content that should be BASIC in any TES game. I think I'm not the only one who wants this, since the people I've spoken to mostly agree with me on this subject.
EDIT: INB4 'LMAO NO' and 'Beating a dead horse' witty replies.
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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No.Is ZOS ever going to introduce Spell Schools
They won't.
They would have to redo their whole game. For no extra profit.
Aint nobody got the investment for dat.
This ship has sailed, been set on fire and sunk long ago...
Instead, they made up some fluff about how ESO is set in a time period -before- the universal acceptance of the schools of magic.
Yes, it would have been nice to have a "classless" ESO. Not what we got, so we gotta play what we have.
Keep the thought for "FallOut Online"...
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The fact that the developers didn't implement TES style Spell Schools into the game from the very beginning puzzles me. This is one of the core aspects of any TES game just like the Weapon Skill lines are. I really don't understand why would they limit magicka users in this way?
The various classes we play aren't conventional mages, in the way you're used to from the later games. By the time you get to the single player titles, mages have, pretty much, codified into a single, unified, magical system, but ESO's player characters aren't part of that, so each group (with the exception of Sorcs) are practicing their own varieties of magic.
The spell schools have come up when spellcrafting was discussed. If that system ever comes back, then you'd probably see the schools there. But, as the game exists now, no.0 -
neverwalk✭✭✭✭Next Chapter: Skyrim. Psijic order sends you to Winterhold to investagate the College of Winterhold, where you will learn spell-crafting. Well this is what i dream of for 2019 chapter.3 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alteration: DK, Warden and certain Mages Guild spells
Conjuration: Warden (Animal Companions), Sorc (Daedric Summoning)
Destruction: Staves, Ardent Flame, Storm Calling, Winter's Embrace, etc, ...
Illusion: NB (Shadow skills)
Mysticism: Psijic Order
Restoration: Templar, Warden, Staff
Thaumaturgy: uhm... see Alteration?
Enchanting and Alchemy are crafting skillsTheShadowScout wrote: »Instead, they made up some fluff about how ESO is set in a time period -before- the universal acceptance of the schools of magic.
Hence why everything is there, just not categorized like 3rd/4th Era ppl are used to"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU3 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
No.Is ZOS ever going to introduce Spell Schools
They won't.
They would have to redo their whole game. For no extra profit.
Aint nobody got the investment for dat.
This ship has sailed, been set on fire and sunk long ago...
Instead, they made up some fluff about how ESO is set in a time period -before- the universal acceptance of the schools of magic.
Yes, it would have been nice to have a "classless" ESO. Not what we got, so we gotta play what we have.
Keep the thought for "FallOut Online"...
regardless illusion and conjuration magic will have to come along some time....they are a huge part of the franchise...Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
SkillzMFG✭✭✭✭Alteration: DK, Warden and certain Mages Guild spells
Conjuration: Warden (Animal Companions), Sorc (Daedric Summoning)
Destruction: Staves, Ardent Flame, Storm Calling, Winter's Embrace, etc, ...
Illusion: NB (Shadow skills)
Mysticism: Psijic Order
Restoration: Templar, Warden, Staff
Thaumaturgy: uhm... see Alteration?
Enchanting and Alchemy are crafting skillsTheShadowScout wrote: »Instead, they made up some fluff about how ESO is set in a time period -before- the universal acceptance of the schools of magic.
Hence why everything is there, just not categorized like 3rd/4th Era ppl are used to
That's not even the third of the spells that should be in game. Where's Muffle? Spell cloaks? Ironskin? Fireballs? Ice Spikes? Lightning Bolts?1 -
TheShadowScout wrote: »
The thing is, this entire system of spellcrafting was pretty much complete back in the 2016 and for whatever reason that I will never come to understand, they chose to halt or maybe even scrape the entire thing.
The Elder Scrolls is a series of games known for the freedom they present the player with first and everything else always came after that and for someone who plays spellcaster, this is a crucial and core aspect of the game, just like poisons and similar stuff are to a sneaky character and I see not reason not to implement it in the game and ZOS clearly agreed with me back in the 2016 but changed their mind for whatever reason.3 -
grizzledcroc✭✭✭✭I saw someone say core aspect of the main tes games where in skyrim a couple go missing and or get neutered xD0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’m almost positive this is how Spellcrafting was structured in the datamine a loooong time ago. Your crafted spells were categorized into the schools of magic, each with their own skill line ofc.1 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just hope in the future we get a "1hand and spell" skill-line that both stamina and magicka can usePS4 NA DC1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Much of conjuration is worked into the sorceror. Some of illusion, into the nightblade.regardless illusion and conjuration magic will have to come along some time....they are a huge part of the franchise...
But yeah, there is a lot of skills we should get for ESO. Some of them we can even see NPCs use, but not use ourselves - what a drag, huh? But that is why I make threads like: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369966/class-morph-idea-mk-ii or https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387560/additional-guild-ideas-mk-ii
Agreed. But I would, would I not, considering: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-iiGreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Just hope in the future we get a "1hand and spell" skill-line that both stamina and magicka can use 1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
The thing is, this entire system of spellcrafting was pretty much complete back in the 2016 and for whatever reason that I will never come to understand, they chose to halt or maybe even scrape the entire thing.
The Elder Scrolls is a series of games known for the freedom they present the player with first and everything else always came after that and for someone who plays spellcaster, this is a crucial and core aspect of the game, just like poisons and similar stuff are to a sneaky character and I see not reason not to implement it in the game and ZOS clearly agreed with me back in the 2016 but changed their mind for whatever reason.
They scrapped it because this is an MMO, not a single player TES game. It needs to be balanced, unlike a single player game.1 -
SkillzMFG✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Impossible to balance an MMO with spell crafting.
How is it unbalanced if everyone pretty much has access to the same spells? That's not how it works dudeLegendaryMage wrote: »
Way too much time has passed and this still isn't in the game. I'm afraid they've given up on it.0 -
Raraaku✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Impossible to balance an MMO with spell crafting.
How is it unbalanced if everyone pretty much has access to the same spells? That's not how it works dude.
Because you're not accounting for the countless other factors that could affect those spells, whether that be procs from sets, unintended interactions between a custom created spell and other skills, the imbalance of damage to resource ratio, spells being too effective in areas such as CC and debuff.
Not everybody has the same access to the same sets or buffs/skills that might greatly affect spell crafting. While true, game balance is an ever elusive concept... If you think a lot of people complain now, just wait until the Imperial City burns to the ground because of spell crafting and classes are either rendered obsolete or one class dominates all the others due to an unforeseen skill interaction/combo.
The only concept of a system I can even remotely think of for spell crafting is a scroll consumable system that requires crafting, but then you'll have the whole "p2w" arguments if they implement such a system with a chapter DLC. Which would be a lot more valid than the current jewelry crafting complaints that are being circulated at the moment.
This is also not even getting into problems of spell crafting as a skill crafting system most likely rendering all skills in other skill lines obsolete if a player can create a better skill that is tailored to their desire/need or it not being worth it because an already existing skill does what a player could create better than what is created.
There are literally mountains of problems that come with spell crafting. Spell crafting works in single player games, but not in MMOs, and especially not in MMOs with a dedicated PvP community.
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LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭You have to remember that at that time, there were significantly less sets in the game and the meta was completely different. Nick was also combat lead developer if I remember well, and this was 'his' project as far as I know.
After he left, they maybe mentioned it once or twice in the context of still being a possibility but not worked on, and that's about it.
I have no doubt that the system from the video would have been just fine if implemented at that particular time. What happened after is a completely different story and a mess of its own.0 -
SkillzMFG✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Impossible to balance an MMO with spell crafting.
How is it unbalanced if everyone pretty much has access to the same spells? That's not how it works dude.
Because you're not accounting for the countless other factors that could affect those spells, whether that be procs from sets, unintended interactions between a custom created spell and other skills, the imbalance of damage to resource ratio, spells being too effective in areas such as CC and debuff.
Not everybody has the same access to the same sets or buffs/skills that might greatly affect spell crafting. While true, game balance is an ever elusive concept... If you think a lot of people complain now, just wait until the Imperial City burns to the ground because of spell crafting and classes are either rendered obsolete or one class dominates all the others due to an unforeseen skill interaction/combo.
The only concept of a system I can even remotely think of for spell crafting is a scroll consumable system that requires crafting, but then you'll have the whole "p2w" arguments if they implement such a system with a chapter DLC. Which would be a lot more valid than the current jewelry crafting complaints that are being circulated at the moment.
This is also not even getting into problems of spell crafting as a skill crafting system most likely rendering all skills in other skill lines obsolete if a player can create a better skill that is tailored to their desire/need or it not being worth it because an already existing skill does what a player could create better than what is created.
There are literally mountains of problems that come with spell crafting. Spell crafting works in single player games, but not in MMOs, and especially not in MMOs with a dedicated PvP community.
I think you're wrong. Spellcrafting can be implemented so it actually improves the overall balance in game, because it gives people a chance to even out the odds in PvP. For example: A stam Warden could get Invisibility or a mag Sorcerer could get it, making them more balanced compared to infinitely stealthed mag Night Blades.
ZOS had quite a long time to take into account all the 'other countless factors' and make Spellcrafting work within reasonable boundaries.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So WHAT will they offer Stamina players to offset/counter Spellcrafting?!? Seems to me this would suddenly turn the game into Elder Mages Online... so yes, right now the game is 'balanced' as far as what it offers both Magicka and Stamina players. Adding Spellcrafting would give Magicka players a HUGE advantage over Stamina players and I believe that is probably why the whole Spellcrafting idea was dropped.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~1 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭They ll put in schools when they implement one handed wands Harry..."Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."1 -
Raraaku✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Impossible to balance an MMO with spell crafting.
How is it unbalanced if everyone pretty much has access to the same spells? That's not how it works dude.
Because you're not accounting for the countless other factors that could affect those spells, whether that be procs from sets, unintended interactions between a custom created spell and other skills, the imbalance of damage to resource ratio, spells being too effective in areas such as CC and debuff.
Not everybody has the same access to the same sets or buffs/skills that might greatly affect spell crafting. While true, game balance is an ever elusive concept... If you think a lot of people complain now, just wait until the Imperial City burns to the ground because of spell crafting and classes are either rendered obsolete or one class dominates all the others due to an unforeseen skill interaction/combo.
The only concept of a system I can even remotely think of for spell crafting is a scroll consumable system that requires crafting, but then you'll have the whole "p2w" arguments if they implement such a system with a chapter DLC. Which would be a lot more valid than the current jewelry crafting complaints that are being circulated at the moment.
This is also not even getting into problems of spell crafting as a skill crafting system most likely rendering all skills in other skill lines obsolete if a player can create a better skill that is tailored to their desire/need or it not being worth it because an already existing skill does what a player could create better than what is created.
There are literally mountains of problems that come with spell crafting. Spell crafting works in single player games, but not in MMOs, and especially not in MMOs with a dedicated PvP community.
I think you're wrong. Spellcrafting can be implemented so it actually improves the overall balance in game, because it gives people a chance to even out the odds in PvP. For example: A stam Warden could get Invisibility or a mag Sorcerer could get it, making them more balanced compared to infinitely stealthed mag Night Blades.
ZOS had quite a long time to take into account all the 'other countless factors' and make Spellcrafting work within reasonable boundaries.
No, it wouldn't. Your example doesn't really work as there are already invisibility potions and skills that reveal invisibility. There are already counters to invisibility in place that "even the odds". If spell crafting could improve the balance, it would not be set on the back burner for the foreseeable future. Obviously there are some sort of obstacle/s still in the way to create a balanced system since it hasn't been seen/mentioned in a good while now.
Edited by Raraaku on May 27, 2018 1:48PMBack from a much needed break. || I like having too many projects and working on them all at once.
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SilverIce58✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only people who use spell schools at this point in time are Shad Astula (destro, alter, resto, conjur, illu, alchemy, thaumaturgy, and Mysticism) and the Mages Guild, but to a lesser extent than Shad Astula. Gabrielle Benele, the wizard, wrote a thesis or a paper on how the Mages Guild should adopt these schools of magic from the Academy so as to better the curriculum to teach fledgling mages the ways of magic.
Link: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Proposal:_Schools_of_Magic
Edit: Don't get me wrong tho, if spell-crafting ever became a thing, I'd love for it to include the schools.Edited by SilverIce58 on May 27, 2018 2:43PMPC - NACP 1125
Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
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Vanthras79✭✭✭✭✭I hope it does make it's way into the game at some point. The game is just not an Elder Scrolls game with out them. As for that petty balance remarks that everybody loves to make... Math majors know how to make things balanced. Ranges could be set for things like power and duration to create balance-able parameters. Honestly, I am shocked that all of you have a lack of imagination. Imagination drives innovation and forward thinking. It sounds like some people prefer to give up, and feed the wrong wolf.Norion Germain - Telvanni Wizard, Covenant Battle Mage, Mage's Guild Magister, Resident of Daggerfall Overlook, Lord of Tel Galen, Psijic Monk, Antiquarian, Breton Scholar, and Traveler.3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vanthras79 wrote: »I hope it does make it's way into the game at some point. The game is just not an Elder Scrolls game with out them. As for that petty balance remarks that everybody loves to make... Math majors know how to make things balanced. Ranges could be set for things like power and duration to create balance-able parameters. Honestly, I am shocked that all of you have a lack of imagination. Imagination drives innovation and forward thinking. It sounds like some people prefer to give up, and feed the wrong wolf.
Math majors also know that math isn't magic. It's bound by rules.0 -
SkillzMFG✭✭✭✭So WHAT will they offer Stamina players to offset/counter Spellcrafting?!? Seems to me this would suddenly turn the game into Elder Mages Online... so yes, right now the game is 'balanced' as far as what it offers both Magicka and Stamina players. Adding Spellcrafting would give Magicka players a HUGE advantage over Stamina players and I believe that is probably why the whole Spellcrafting idea was dropped.
Who says you can't craft a Stamina-based ability?3 -
SkillzMFG✭✭✭✭Vanthras79 wrote: »I hope it does make it's way into the game at some point. The game is just not an Elder Scrolls game with out them. As for that petty balance remarks that everybody loves to make... Math majors know how to make things balanced. Ranges could be set for things like power and duration to create balance-able parameters. Honestly, I am shocked that all of you have a lack of imagination. Imagination drives innovation and forward thinking. It sounds like some people prefer to give up, and feed the wrong wolf.
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SkillzMFG✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Impossible to balance an MMO with spell crafting.
How is it unbalanced if everyone pretty much has access to the same spells? That's not how it works dude.
Because you're not accounting for the countless other factors that could affect those spells, whether that be procs from sets, unintended interactions between a custom created spell and other skills, the imbalance of damage to resource ratio, spells being too effective in areas such as CC and debuff.
Not everybody has the same access to the same sets or buffs/skills that might greatly affect spell crafting. While true, game balance is an ever elusive concept... If you think a lot of people complain now, just wait until the Imperial City burns to the ground because of spell crafting and classes are either rendered obsolete or one class dominates all the others due to an unforeseen skill interaction/combo.
The only concept of a system I can even remotely think of for spell crafting is a scroll consumable system that requires crafting, but then you'll have the whole "p2w" arguments if they implement such a system with a chapter DLC. Which would be a lot more valid than the current jewelry crafting complaints that are being circulated at the moment.
This is also not even getting into problems of spell crafting as a skill crafting system most likely rendering all skills in other skill lines obsolete if a player can create a better skill that is tailored to their desire/need or it not being worth it because an already existing skill does what a player could create better than what is created.
There are literally mountains of problems that come with spell crafting. Spell crafting works in single player games, but not in MMOs, and especially not in MMOs with a dedicated PvP community.
I think you're wrong. Spellcrafting can be implemented so it actually improves the overall balance in game, because it gives people a chance to even out the odds in PvP. For example: A stam Warden could get Invisibility or a mag Sorcerer could get it, making them more balanced compared to infinitely stealthed mag Night Blades.
ZOS had quite a long time to take into account all the 'other countless factors' and make Spellcrafting work within reasonable boundaries.
No, it wouldn't. Your example doesn't really work as there are already invisibility potions and skills that reveal invisibility. There are already counters to invisibility in place that "even the odds". If spell crafting could improve the balance, it would not be set on the back burner for the foreseeable future. Obviously there are some sort of obstacle/s still in the way to create a balanced system since it hasn't been seen/mentioned in a good while now.
Yes it would. There are Invisibility potions which have almost a minute long cooldown and are basically worthless if anyone has a dot on you. Mag Nightblades can, on the other hand, spam Invisibility as long as they like. Don't even get me started on the detection spells, they are pure crap and don't work as intended anyway.
Not everything revolves around balance, don't talk like you know exactly why this system was postponed, for all we know maybe they didn't know how to monetize it?Edited by SkillzMFG on May 27, 2018 2:45PM0 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That video gives me the chills watching it though. Seeing spells cast in eso that i havent seen before it really cool.PS4 NA DC2
https://youtu.be/3LkeMacg-b0?t=53m2s