Is ZOS ever going to introduce Spell Schools?

Vanthras79

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vanthras79 wrote: »

I hope it does make it's way into the game at some point. The game is just not an Elder Scrolls game with out them. As for that petty balance remarks that everybody loves to make... Math majors know how to make things balanced. Ranges could be set for things like power and duration to create balance-able parameters. Honestly, I am shocked that all of you have a lack of imagination. Imagination drives innovation and forward thinking. It sounds like some people prefer to give up, and feed the wrong wolf.

Math majors also know that math isn't magic. It's bound by rules.

And rules can be used to balance equations, and ability parameters for that matter.

lihentian

i doubt..at this point it is probably too late.

Vanthras79

SkillzMFG wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

So WHAT will they offer Stamina players to offset/counter Spellcrafting?!? Seems to me this would suddenly turn the game into Elder Mages Online... so yes, right now the game is 'balanced' as far as what it offers both Magicka and Stamina players. Adding Spellcrafting would give Magicka players a HUGE advantage over Stamina players and I believe that is probably why the whole Spellcrafting idea was dropped.

Who says you can't craft a Stamina-based ability?

Half of these arguments may be made by people who fear that magicka>stamina if such a thing were to happen. I think there needs to be something separate for stamina players. The fighter's guild could send stam toons off to learn the fighting stances of other cultures, and gain new stamina abilities in the process.

mb10

Theyre all in the game already but just not under a specific school.

Like nightblade invisibility is under Illusion, but because its unique to that class, they cant have it under a school of magic where any class can use it.

geøstigma

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They scrapped it because this is an MMO, not a single player TES game. It needs to be balanced, unlike a single player game.

Nobody says it has to be imbalanced... The problem here seems to be that most of the players lack the imagination. Just because it has never been done before in an MMO doesn't mean it's impossible to pull off. I mean, ESO already pulled off some pretty amazing game mechanics like the combat system and whatnot...

Just as Vanthras79 implied, ranges, damage, duration and area of effect 'sliders' or something similar would work very well with this in my honest opinion.

SkillzMFG

Vanthras79 wrote: »

SkillzMFG wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

So WHAT will they offer Stamina players to offset/counter Spellcrafting?!? Seems to me this would suddenly turn the game into Elder Mages Online... so yes, right now the game is 'balanced' as far as what it offers both Magicka and Stamina players. Adding Spellcrafting would give Magicka players a HUGE advantage over Stamina players and I believe that is probably why the whole Spellcrafting idea was dropped.

Who says you can't craft a Stamina-based ability?

Half of these arguments may be made by people who fear that magicka>stamina if such a thing were to happen. I think there needs to be something separate for stamina players. The fighter's guild could send stam toons off to learn the fighting stances of other cultures, and gain new stamina abilities in the process.

These 'counter arguments' are probably made by:
1. People who fear that they will lose their precious balance that, frankly, doesn't even exist.
2. Those who already have cheesy one-shot or unkillable builds and are afraid they'll have to use a bit of skill once a change has been made
3. People who bash any innovative thread for no other reason than to bash other people's ideas
4. Circle jerking people who are farming awesomes while making unfunny/unconstructive answers

idk

It does not puzzle me. I did not expect Zos to add everything from TES games to ESO. As has proven true, they have added some later.

Still, not everything will or should be added to the game and what is added will be changed to fit better with ESO.

Vanthras79

SkillzMFG wrote: »

3. People who bash any innovative thread for no other reason than to bash other people's ideas

I have no idea why people bash creative idea threads. It is like they have nothing better to do.

geøstigma

Vanthras79 wrote: »

I think there needs to be something separate for stamina players. The fighter's guild could send stam toons off to learn the fighting stances of other cultures, and gain new stamina abilities in the process.

This is actually a great idea but as the moderator already wrote, simple 'morph to stamina ability' would do the trick as well.

Anything would be great since the gameplay and skills haven't really changed that much since the launch and, I (and I'm sure many would agree with me) really want to see magic getting more creative, original and diversified.
Is it an easy task? No, probably not. Is it impossible? I think we all know an answer to this one

GreenSoup2HoT

mb10 wrote: »

Theyre all in the game already but just not under a specific school.

Like nightblade invisibility is under Illusion, but because its unique to that class, they cant have it under a school of magic where any class can use it.

Well technically every class could have invisibility. It would just be unique to the illusion school of magic and would work differently then nightblade cloak. The illusion invisibility would most likely be a channeled magicka ability that keeps you invisible. Not so useful in pvp since you can get revealed but would assist players doing things like thieves guild or dark brotherhood on a none invis based class.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Theres 2 way i would see them adding school of magic

1 with the inclusion of spell crafting

2 by weapon skill line aka more staff skill line

Valen_Byte

neverwalk wrote: »

Next Chapter: Skyrim. Psijic order sends you to Winterhold to investagate the College of Winterhold, where you will learn spell-crafting. Well this is what i dream of for 2019 chapter.

Spell-crafting, along with many awesome things that were to come, went out the door with Paul Sage. They have already said they scrapped ther plans for spell-crafting.

SkillzMFG

Spell-crafting, along with many awesome things that were to come, went out the door with Paul Sage. They have already said they scrapped ther plans for spell-crafting.

Source please.

Valen_Byte

Some live stream, sometime. Dont care enough to look for it.

Raraaku

SkillzMFG wrote: »

Vanthras79 wrote: »

SkillzMFG wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

So WHAT will they offer Stamina players to offset/counter Spellcrafting?!? Seems to me this would suddenly turn the game into Elder Mages Online... so yes, right now the game is 'balanced' as far as what it offers both Magicka and Stamina players. Adding Spellcrafting would give Magicka players a HUGE advantage over Stamina players and I believe that is probably why the whole Spellcrafting idea was dropped.

Who says you can't craft a Stamina-based ability?

Half of these arguments may be made by people who fear that magicka>stamina if such a thing were to happen. I think there needs to be something separate for stamina players. The fighter's guild could send stam toons off to learn the fighting stances of other cultures, and gain new stamina abilities in the process.

These 'counter arguments' are probably made by:
1. People who fear that they will lose their precious balance that, frankly, doesn't even exist.
2. Those who already have cheesy one-shot or unkillable builds and are afraid they'll have to use a bit of skill once a change has been made
3. People who bash any innovative thread for no other reason than to bash other people's ideas
4. Circle jerking people who are farming awesomes while making unfunny/unconstructive answers

lol.

Last post since this thread is now pointless, but thank you for the entertaining responses and not being receptive to opposing views all the while trying to claim that those who do not share your viewpoint are the sole culprits.

SkillzMFG

Raraaku wrote: »

SkillzMFG wrote: »

Vanthras79 wrote: »

SkillzMFG wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

So WHAT will they offer Stamina players to offset/counter Spellcrafting?!? Seems to me this would suddenly turn the game into Elder Mages Online... so yes, right now the game is 'balanced' as far as what it offers both Magicka and Stamina players. Adding Spellcrafting would give Magicka players a HUGE advantage over Stamina players and I believe that is probably why the whole Spellcrafting idea was dropped.

Who says you can't craft a Stamina-based ability?

Half of these arguments may be made by people who fear that magicka>stamina if such a thing were to happen. I think there needs to be something separate for stamina players. The fighter's guild could send stam toons off to learn the fighting stances of other cultures, and gain new stamina abilities in the process.

These 'counter arguments' are probably made by:
1. People who fear that they will lose their precious balance that, frankly, doesn't even exist.
2. Those who already have cheesy one-shot or unkillable builds and are afraid they'll have to use a bit of skill once a change has been made
3. People who bash any innovative thread for no other reason than to bash other people's ideas
4. Circle jerking people who are farming awesomes while making unfunny/unconstructive answers

lol.

Last post since this thread is now pointless, but thank you for the entertaining responses and not being receptive to opposing views all the while trying to claim that those who do not share your viewpoint are the sole culprits.

Did I hit the spot lol?

Some people actually gave constructive answers while you insisted spell school can't be a thing. If you don't think so - fine, you gave a piece of your mind, you can leave the thread. But you just can't assume that it's impossible since we've already seen many different and new things added in ESO.

Rosveen

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Instead, they made up some fluff about how ESO is set in a time period -before- the universal acceptance of the schools of magic.

They didn't make it up, they lifted the idea from existing lore.

The 'Schools' of magicka are, as we know, artificial constructs, originally formulated by Vanus Galerion to divide and thereby simplify study. They have changed many times throughout the years, but at their heart, every Master knows, they are all linked together.

From The Black Arts On Trial, a book that first appeared in TES IV: Oblivion.

Notice that they're described as artificial and changing over time. This is in line with the single player games, where certain spells were moved between schools and some schools even disappeared entirely, or at least weren't taught by the colleges we visited (thaumaturgy, mysticism).

The spells are clearly still there: conjured daedra, fireballs, restorative magic... I understand your attachment to the traditional system we're used to, but I don't have a problem with ESO doing it differently. There are issues with implementation, but the basic concept is sound as long as we accept the class system in general (which I'm not a fan of because it's a holdover from the time when ZOS had the wrong vision of the game).

geøstigma

@Rosveen

You're absolutely right and I agree with you on the lore stuff however, it doesn't mean that the mages were unable to tinker with and come up with new or modify the existing ones before Galerion classified and divided them in schools.

I honestly believe a game would benefit greatly and gain much more depth from even a spell 'personalization' if not spell creation system.

grizzledcroc

Still its interesting with each new datamine tidbits of things related to spellcrafting pop up here and there. Can be as small as a desk related to it and such. It seems its a matter of when than if it comes to the game. Hope they dont monotize it doe.

TheShadowScout

Rosveen wrote: »

I understand your attachment to the traditional system we're used to, but I don't have a problem with ESO doing it differently. There are issues with implementation, but the basic concept is sound as long as we accept the class system in general (which I'm not a fan of because it's a holdover from the time when ZOS had the wrong vision of the game).

Sorry if you misunderstood then.
I have no attachment at all to the "traditional" system.
And I have no problem with ESO doing it differently. Heck, many TES games changed quite a bit, game-system wise.

Yes, I myself would have preferred a less rigid system. I would have preferred things to be more like... giving people free selection of all options from the start, but making them make -choices- during the game abut which direction to develop their characters.
Ship, sailed, sunk, long time.

So I accept the system, because as I always state, they are not likely to invest all the effort to redo it at this point for no extra profit. And try to come up with suggestions (see prior post) to -add- to the system we have instead of talking about how ESO would have been so much better if they changed it all...

DoctorESO

The Restoration School is the best. There is nothing more noble than healing others.

Gnortranermara

Disregard the naysayers. Extremely flexible spellcrafting is possible and can be perfectly balanced. It's a simple task that any semi-competent development team could pull off. 75% of the task is simply developing a standard cost formula with the right characteristics and the other 25% is defining reasonable boundaries for crafted spell effects. It's not a difficult task at all. The question is whether the will exists to make it happen, not the technical feasibility or difficulty.

Faulgor

Assets for a "spellbook" UI that reference the different magical schools were added to the client a few months back:
https://de.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/83aau2/datamining_there_appears_to_be_some_new/

So yes, eventually they will probably introduce them in some fashion. I have my fingers crossed for some news at E3.

Vanthras79

Faulgor wrote: »

I have my fingers crossed for some news at E3.

Same here.

geøstigma

Faulgor wrote: »

Assets for a "spellbook" UI that reference the different magical schools were added to the client a few months back:
https://de.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/83aau2/datamining_there_appears_to_be_some_new/

So yes, eventually they will probably introduce them in some fashion. I have my fingers crossed for some news at E3.

josiahva

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

geøstigma wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

SkillzMFG wrote: »

Is ZOS ever going to introduce Spell Schools

No.
They won't.

They would have to redo their whole game. For no extra profit.
Aint nobody got the investment for dat.

The thing is, this entire system of spellcrafting was pretty much complete back in the 2016 and for whatever reason that I will never come to understand, they chose to halt or maybe even scrape the entire thing.

The Elder Scrolls is a series of games known for the freedom they present the player with first and everything else always came after that and for someone who plays spellcaster, this is a crucial and core aspect of the game, just like poisons and similar stuff are to a sneaky character and I see not reason not to implement it in the game and ZOS clearly agreed with me back in the 2016 but changed their mind for whatever reason.

They scrapped it because this is an MMO, not a single player TES game. It needs to be balanced, unlike a single player game.

I get so tired of this same old "cant be balanced" crap. ITS ALREADY NOT BALANCED, if anything spell crafting would ADD balance by increasing the spell choices so anyone could make up for imbalances by crafting something different.

Valen_Byte

Faulgor wrote: »

Assets for a "spellbook" UI that reference the different magical schools were added to the client a few months back:
https://de.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/83aau2/datamining_there_appears_to_be_some_new/

So yes, eventually they will probably introduce them in some fashion. I have my fingers crossed for some news at E3.

Thats not too surprising that you would find that in the Summerset files. This is the time, I believe, that we "would" have seen spell crafting added to the game. But, they ended those plans when the game went B2p. I cant be the only one still around who remembers that. I think we got the PO skill line instead. I hope they change there minds and start working on it again. But, when Zos says "indefinitely" they mean never. lol

shadowwraith666

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Disregard the naysayers. Extremely flexible spellcrafting is possible and can be perfectly balanced. It's a simple task that any semi-competent development team could pull off. 75% of the task is simply developing a standard cost formula with the right characteristics and the other 25% is defining reasonable boundaries for crafted spell effects. It's not a difficult task at all. The question is whether the will exists to make it happen, not the technical feasibility or difficulty.

the limits and costs for spell making could be tied to a spell crafting skill line with hard caps and combination limits to prevent making of game-breaking spells, this would also rebalance the crafting skill lines by adding a 6th crafting skill line

in TES 3 and oblivion magnitudes and durations were tied to your levels in the various schools of magic and the various spell effects that were acquired from spells that you bought

in ESO ZOS could create spell effect scrolls which could found in random loot or sold from the mages guild and learned in the same way as recipes or motifs

Romestamo

shadowwraith666 wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Disregard the naysayers. Extremely flexible spellcrafting is possible and can be perfectly balanced. It's a simple task that any semi-competent development team could pull off. 75% of the task is simply developing a standard cost formula with the right characteristics and the other 25% is defining reasonable boundaries for crafted spell effects. It's not a difficult task at all. The question is whether the will exists to make it happen, not the technical feasibility or difficulty.

the limits and costs for spell making could be tied to a spell crafting skill line with hard caps and combination limits to prevent making of game-breaking spells, this would also rebalance the crafting skill lines by adding a 6th crafting skill line

in TES 3 and oblivion magnitudes and durations were tied to your levels in the various schools of magic and the various spell effects that were acquired from spells that you bought

in ESO ZOS could create spell effect scrolls which could found in random loot or sold from the mages guild and learned in the same way as recipes or motifs

Yes - the original system had spell-glyphs you'd find and combine. They could work that into Mage's Guild skill line - the more glyphs you find and spells you make, the higher you rise. It's a lot more logical than running around and clicking on books at random, most of which don't have anything to do with magic.

Animus-ESO

SkillzMFG wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Impossible to balance an MMO with spell crafting.

How is it unbalanced if everyone pretty much has access to the same spells? That's not how it works dude

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Just click play, it will auto start where appropriate.

https://youtu.be/3LkeMacg-b0?t=53m2s

Way too much time has passed and this still isn't in the game. I'm afraid they've given up on it.

They didnt give up on it. They added some assets last patch according to data mined info. They are adding it slowly bit by bit. I think summer set didn't release spell crafting because they were worried about upsetting balance all at once. With jewelry crafting. The buff to 2 handers and the pysijic skill line they didnt want to add spell crafting on top of all of it