No communication whatsoever

  • psychounz
    psychounz
    ✭✭✭
    As far as wanting notice, I bet this was more of a, "Oh crap," moment, in which the best option is to shut it down, boom. The team starts working, hoping the shut down doesn't have to be super long, but as time goes on and the problem becomes more complex, the decision needs to be made about when and how to inform the users. Having worked in customer service, believe me, this is the worst part about it all and what usually takes the longest; and it's not the CSR's fault, it's usually their superiors/the ones with the decision making power.
  • therasia2_ESO
    therasia2_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Lets all be thankful that the issues are being addressed, you can't complain about down time and lack of information while they are working to iron out a big problem on the server/game. When its over you will be notified and information on the problem will become available. Keep smiling, and wait patiently for the green light! :) Happy Hunting!
  • Silver_Thorn
    Actually, even if they don't know how long it will take to resolve the issue, they could post something like "Server will be down for at least another two hours. We will post another downtime update in 1.5 hours." That way people would at least know if they have time to run to the store, etc. before the game comes back up...
  • Jamsinerain
    psychounz wrote: »
    As far as wanting notice, I bet this was more of a, "Oh crap," moment, in which the best option is to shut it down, boom. The team starts working, hoping the shut down doesn't have to be super long, but as time goes on and the problem becomes more complex, the decision needs to be made about when and how to inform the users. Having worked in customer service, believe me, this is the worst part about it all and what usually takes the longest; and it's not the CSR's fault, it's usually their superiors/the ones with the decision making power.

    And I'm sure it was one of those moments. And no one is actively blaming the poor CSR, it's their manager that everyone is blaming (or at least I am). Honestly the techs should be keeping the CSRs informed so they can then pass the information onto the customer. The lack of information being shared is the main issue here and says a lot about a company's structure, or about the person who's posting the updates. Either way, it's pretty telling.

    Any company can start out with a awesome idea, implement and sell the product and then later completely fail because of a lack in customer service and bad management. This is something they really need to keep in mind.

    And just because I forgot to add this before hitting post..
    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/64331/north-american-megaserver-maintenance-4-2-14-01-00am-edt#latest
    and
    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/64066/patch-notes-v1-0-1#latest
    Edited by Jamsinerain on April 2, 2014 2:58PM
    People talk about 'fear of the unknown' but there is an even worse category: fear of things you think you know.
  • Budnick
    Budnick
    There are almost NEVER ETAs for Unplanned maintenance from any gaming company, it's a fact of the industry. They can't tell us when it'll be back up, because THEY DON'T KNOW. And giving estimates is a bad idea for companies, because then when it's NOT ready at their estimated time, people on the forums and Social Media whinge about it.

    yeah you are right. its not like people are complaining now about the lack of info. we wouldn't want them to start by giving an ETA and missing it.
  • Heishi
    Heishi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Jamsinerain‌ Just as an fyi earlier in this thread someone shared http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/64824/eso-north-american-megaserver-downtime-4-1-to-4-2 where they updated people.

    Edit: Nevermind you already got it XD
    Edited by Heishi on April 2, 2014 3:00PM
    And so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had.
  • Jamsinerain
    Budnick wrote: »
    There are almost NEVER ETAs for Unplanned maintenance from any gaming company, it's a fact of the industry. They can't tell us when it'll be back up, because THEY DON'T KNOW. And giving estimates is a bad idea for companies, because then when it's NOT ready at their estimated time, people on the forums and Social Media whinge about it.

    yeah you are right. its not like people are complaining now about the lack of info. we wouldn't want them to start by giving an ETA and missing it.

    Actually I think most of this just shows how difficult these forums are to navigate.
    People talk about 'fear of the unknown' but there is an even worse category: fear of things you think you know.
  • Jamsinerain
    @Heishi Yea sorry when I posted I had those links open and ready to add to my post... however there was shiny squirrel that ran by and I completely forgot to add them. ;)
    People talk about 'fear of the unknown' but there is an even worse category: fear of things you think you know.
  • Heishi
    Heishi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Jamsinerain‌ I bet it was the same shiny squirrel that broke the server :open_mouth:
    And so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had.
  • Jamsinerain
    @Heishi You know you might be right, think he might have stolen the hamster's carrot?
    People talk about 'fear of the unknown' but there is an even worse category: fear of things you think you know.
  • Stienbjorn
    I wish some of the more vocal forum posters could work on a major MMO for just a month. I know my own views on how these companies work changed drastically after having worked for one for 2 years now.

    Yes, they have a team who is dedicated to simply reading forums and handling customer support, they are the Community Team. This team has their work cut out for them, and few people truly appreciate the scale or complexity involved. Their job, when something goes wrong, is to run around talking to team leads, which usually involves the following teams; QA, Art, Combat, Server, Engineering and yes, even management. When these things occur they are trying their best to gather all the information they can on the issue, compiling it and then deciding the best way to communicate it to you, the customer. Do they hold information back, yes. Why you ask, well simply read the forums for a bit and I think you can come to a logical conclusion. Most of the time no matter how the situation is handled they are going to catch flak from someone, that is just the way of the internet.

    The other issue at play here is that teams do not always have an answer, or an easy and fast fix. These issues have a tendency to blindside a development team and they can be just as in the dark as you the consumer. However, when an issue is discovered, be it in-house or on a live environment it usually goes through a pipeline that looks something like this.

    First, QA gathers all the information that has been uncovered for the particular issue. That information can come from bug reports, forums and sometimes even personal experience with the issue. This information can sometimes be as useless as, "I found a bug", or "This is broke", and yes I have seen bug reports with those exact statements. QA then tries to reproduce the issue in-house so they can come up with a valid and reliable way to reproduce the issue. Once they have that information it is then sent to the team that handles those types of issues. For example, if a combat ability breaks when a user does x followed by y, that issue would be sent to the combat team, who might check their code to make sure it is not what is breaking the ability. In this case, where players are being logged into the wrong account, I would imagine the issue went to the server and platform teams.

    Once the team responsible for fixing the issue receives the information on how to reproduce the bug, exploit or crash, they then have to spend time tracking down the cause and attempting to formulate a solution. Once they come up with what they hope is a fix, the change is then submitted to the build team, who creates a working build that is then passed to QA. QA will again sit down and attempt to break that issue using the previous repro steps and usually tossing in a few other ways to break it. If it holds up, QA will green light the fix which is then pushed out to the live environment.

    Now, I have no working knowledge of their build process, but what I just laid out is a rough sketch of the pipeline any bug will follow. The speed that it is deployed to the live environment is the biggest variable and usually depends on the severity of the issue and how much it impacts the players. There are usually two types of patches, Emergency Patches, or EP's or regular Game Updates, GU's.

    In closing I would like to agree it is annoying to lose game time, especially if you made special plans to work around an early start, but believe me, their teams are doing all they can to fix this as fast as possible. Sometimes however, there is no fast an easy fix and it sucks for everyone involved including the game's development team.

    TL;DR:
    Game fixes take time, difficult fixes can take a lot of time. Patience is a virtue that requires practice, so take this opportunity to gain some patience inspiration points.
  • Jamsinerain
    Stienbjorn wrote: »
    Game fixes take time, difficult fixes can take a lot of time. Patience is a virtue that requires practice, so take this opportunity to gain some patience inspiration points.

    That's all find and dandy, but people have the right to be angry or frustrated or even both. Being condescending helps no one. The issue here if you read through most of the posts are people being frustrated with the lack of information being relayed to us the customers. I think that's mostly been solved. Now the issue of convoluted and hard to navigate forums is an issue. They can post detailed notes on what's going on and have minute by minute status reports; but without easy to navigate, well organized forums, it's all for naught. Get what I'm saying?

    An example of people being frustrated with that is here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/60810/welcome-to-the-elder-scrolls-online-developer-discussion-forum#latest
    Edited by Jamsinerain on April 2, 2014 4:24PM
    People talk about 'fear of the unknown' but there is an even worse category: fear of things you think you know.
  • Jamsinerain
    Also a link to the update post in the banner with the server status would probably be the most helpful thing they could do at this moment.
    People talk about 'fear of the unknown' but there is an even worse category: fear of things you think you know.
  • Stienbjorn
    Stienbjorn wrote: »
    Game fixes take time, difficult fixes can take a lot of time. Patience is a virtue that requires practice, so take this opportunity to gain some patience inspiration points.

    That's all find and dandy, but people have the right to be angry or frustrated or even both. Being condescending helps no one. The issue here if you read through most of the posts are people being frustrated with the lack of information being relayed to us the customers. I think that's mostly been solved. Now the issue of convoluted and hard to navigate forums is an issue. They can post detailed notes on what's going on and have minute by minute status reports; but without easy to navigate, well organized forums, it's all for naught. Get what I'm saying?

    An example of people being frustrated with that is here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/60810/welcome-to-the-elder-scrolls-online-developer-discussion-forum#latest

    Where was I being condescending? If you are referring to my TL;DR that was supposed to be a bit of levity, since I find humor tends to make these situations much more bearable. The rest of the actual post was an explanation on how the process works from my own personal experience. I made it very clear that the community team does not always have an answer and if they posted that they had no information to give at this time, they would be shredded just as badly and called out as being just as incompetent if they had simply said nothing. They are truly in a No Win Situation. Don't believe me, simply read any MMO forum, a very vocal minority can be found blasting game developers even for scheduled maintenance that happens to run 30 minutes longer then expected. Personally I would never be allowed to work on a community team, since I have zero tact when dealing with the tactless.

    I am a customer just as you are, I had serious issues on the first day of launch when my sons account never registered his pre-purchase of the Imperial Edition from this webpage. Did I come on the forums raising hell, no I submitted my issue and waited patiently. Why? Because I know how this process works, and it is not always pretty and their team is going to go through a whole lot of growing pains.

    Starting a post off about how this is unacceptable, terrible, unheard of, or I am canceling because "fillintheblank" is probably the most childish way to start off a post asking for information. Do you as a customer have a responsibility and a right to ask for information, yes. Does that mean you need to create a post that sounds a child throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of the toy isle because your parents said you couldn't have the latest Pokemon, of course not. There is always a civil and respectful way to ask for information, remember those community managers you want answers from are people too. Will you always get an answer? Nope, that is just the way the world works.
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