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PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Templar Balance
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technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They’ve pretty much said they’re not looking at the classes any more. Pretty disappointing when they started all these threads to waste our time and there’s just not much to talk about. We’re not getting an already good unblockable stun buffed to nightmare level, nor an ultimate getting an extra 20% from empower buff. And our spammable already cost enough to be outperformed by force pulse.Edited by technohic on May 17, 2018 10:18AM5 -
Mihael✭✭✭✭if the next patch has no actual Templar balance I’m deleting my 3 Templar characters and possibly quitting the game, enough is enough we have waited too long and it definitely can’t be blamed on the lack of feedback4
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Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »After all these years they are finally going to get me to slot Healing Ritual.
Of course they had to gut BoL to do it. smh
At least whilst you're using it, if you wear a Xyvkin Poly you can also pray to molag bal.
so we got that goin for us.2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I'm not a doom and gloom, the sky is falling Chicken Little type.
That being said ...
Pretty much since forever, the"Feedback Thread for Templar Balance" thread on the PTS have been by are the most viewed and most replied. Pretty much every time. I thin the longest thread on the history of these forums was the Thieves Guild PTS cycle (the "house" update). Draw what deduction from that what you will.
Now, it's the least viewed and least replied thread on the five classes. I can confidently say it's not an instance of "no news is good news" or that the issues with the class that had prompted previous long threads had been solved. Not by a long shot.
(Templar) players are apathetic and checking out.
Pretty much this. When they removed stun from shards templar became dead for me. I used to love playing my magplar but patch after patch they have stripped this class out everything useful because "I can't kill templar" whines everywhere, and since templars are the minority now, some positive changes won't happend fast.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I'm not a doom and gloom, the sky is falling Chicken Little type.
That being said ...
Pretty much since forever, the"Feedback Thread for Templar Balance" thread on the PTS have been by are the most viewed and most replied. Pretty much every time. I thin the longest thread on the history of these forums was the Thieves Guild PTS cycle (the "house" update). Draw what deduction from that what you will.
Now, it's the least viewed and least replied thread on the five classes. I can confidently say it's not an instance of "no news is good news" or that the issues with the class that had prompted previous long threads had been solved. Not by a long shot.
(Templar) players are apathetic and checking out.
Pretty much this. When they removed stun from shards templar became dead for me. I used to love playing my magplar but patch after patch they have stripped this class out everything useful because "I can't kill templar" whines everywhere, and since templars are the minority now, some positive changes won't happend fast.
Here's our major sins for what we accidently asked for that resulted in nerfs:
- we asked to be more effective pve DMG while PvP noobs didn't understand miss chance with certain players stacking dodge chance with miss chance. Caused zos to strip miss chance and give us a stationary execute which had strong DMG to compensate (which also was nerfed)
- we exploited malubeth/reactive. Granted they changed those sets first, but they stopped looking into DMG/defense based on the malubeth meta.
- we abused heavy armor and blazing shield which resulted in nerfs to both. So we feel more squishy in MA/LA because we can't sustain in heavy but also can't survive as much as other classes in MA/LA.
Granted some changes were dumb too:
-zos stripped healing to make people who paid for warden feel better.
- block cast healbots ruined our healing with defile changes (instead of maybe stopping crit DMG from impacting healing first before buffing defiles which they are doing anyway lol)
- repentance cap was dumb because they didn't like it in pve stacking the heal/sustain if you had a bunch of templars. Really dumb changes without looking into how it actually impacts players.
- bugs that go until changed or have no official comment so players think they are bugs. Jabs DMG via CP mitigation, dual DMG tooltips not showing accurate information, jabs hitbox missing with camera, etc.
I can keep going. It's a mess lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual6 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I'm not a doom and gloom, the sky is falling Chicken Little type.
That being said ...
Pretty much since forever, the"Feedback Thread for Templar Balance" thread on the PTS have been by are the most viewed and most replied. Pretty much every time. I thin the longest thread on the history of these forums was the Thieves Guild PTS cycle (the "house" update). Draw what deduction from that what you will.
Now, it's the least viewed and least replied thread on the five classes. I can confidently say it's not an instance of "no news is good news" or that the issues with the class that had prompted previous long threads had been solved. Not by a long shot.
(Templar) players are apathetic and checking out.
If my templar wasn't my main crafter too, I'd probably have deleted her out of disdain. I am not sky falling type either, but I am just over it.2 -
Cage_Lizardman✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I'm not a doom and gloom, the sky is falling Chicken Little type.
That being said ...
Pretty much since forever, the"Feedback Thread for Templar Balance" thread on the PTS have been by are the most viewed and most replied. Pretty much every time. I thin the longest thread on the history of these forums was the Thieves Guild PTS cycle (the "house" update). Draw what deduction from that what you will.
Now, it's the least viewed and least replied thread on the five classes. I can confidently say it's not an instance of "no news is good news" or that the issues with the class that had prompted previous long threads had been solved. Not by a long shot.
(Templar) players are apathetic and checking out.
Pretty much this. When they removed stun from shards templar became dead for me. I used to love playing my magplar but patch after patch they have stripped this class out everything useful because "I can't kill templar" whines everywhere, and since templars are the minority now, some positive changes won't happend fast.
Now we can make "most templars can't kill anything" whines instead:
Templars are even crappier right now than nightblades are op, and it sounds like that is only getting worse with Summerset.0 -
Stibbons✭✭✭✭✭I am pretty sure i will just delete my magic templar after Summerset release. Maxed out horse, bankslots, bags, bank, clothing crafting, resipes, loads of achievments,..
Just not fun to play and poor overall performance in PvP and WvW. Just ok as healbot. I will make some flavor of the patch class instead and randomly play it as lowbie pve and pvp.
I really think developers should go and play WvW as Templar and realize how poor it is. Few hours should should tell it if the developer has played sorc, stamina dk tankish or stamina nightblade. Take a few duels with randoms. Or try endgame new dungeons etc with the templar "house" when you really have to move.
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technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’ve taken restoring focus off my bar on my Stamplar and can’t say I miss it. The benefits seem to be a wash with the opportunity cost of keeping it up. Also saves magicka for ER.
Pretty much just have jabs, POTL, and extended ritual as far as Templar abilities on my bars and I’d be tempted to even give up jabs. Not sure why I bother to get 2 hits and need to gap close/sprint again other than when enemies are stacked. I wonder what it would be like if jabs/ sweeps didn’t snare on the last hit but gave major expedition while channeling. I like running 1h and shield front bar to be a little more tanky in melee so I would have to figure out what to run as a spammable. Maybe worth it to dodge roll more
POTL often times seems only worth it in groups but does still seem to be decent solo when I have a DBOS ready. Closest thing we have for a burst combo.Edited by technohic on May 19, 2018 3:34PM1 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
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Don't you run speed pots? In my experience, stamplar is completely dependent on immov/speed/stamina potions.I wonder what it would be like if jabs/ sweeps didn’t snare on the last hit but gave major expedition while channeling.
7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.0 -
Guys i think it’s time to face the truth. ZOS has no intention to take into account clever and fair improvements that have been asked here.
I hoped for months that ZOS would hear us, but they didnt. Templar is my favorite class and i’m really upset to see nerfs with every new patch
Even if we have 1 buff, there are 3 nerfs coming with it. Overall Templar became too weak.
Our indignation doesnt help. Our advices and pleadings for improvements have no result.
Maybe the only thing to alert ZOS will be a dramatic decrease of Templars ? Maybe when they will see, that nobody is playing the class, they will bring improvements ?
Anyway, i think it’s what happens now. I hoped, i waited, i threatened that i would rerall, but i dont believe anymore. This time i changed the class and created a sorc. Enough is enough.
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Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭rashiteb17_ESO wrote: »Guys i think it’s time to face the truth. ZOS has no intention to take into account clever and fair improvements that have been asked here.
I hoped for months that ZOS would hear us, but they didnt. Templar is my favorite class and i’m really upset to see nerfs with every new patch
Even if we have 1 buff, there are 3 nerfs coming with it. Overall Templar became too weak.
Our indignation doesnt help. Our advices and pleadings for improvements have no result.
Maybe the only thing to alert ZOS will be a dramatic decrease of Templars ? Maybe when they will see, that nobody is playing the class, they will bring improvements ?
Anyway, i think it’s what happens now. I hoped, i waited, i threatened that i would rerall, but i dont believe anymore. This time i changed the class and created a sorc. Enough is enough.
I did the same. Created a mag sorc and blade during the xp event and right now I'm wondering why I should ever log back onto my templar if he wasn't my crafter ...PC,EU, EP
Der-über-Zwerge-springt (Argonian, Magplar), Surtur Velothi (Dunmer, Magdk), Jaqene H'ghar (Imperial, Stamblade), Puppyslayer (Orc, Stamdk), Dagoth Era (Dunmer, Magblade), Æthmon Trevas (Altmer, Magsorc), Der-Zuletzt-Lacht (Argonian, Magden), Sir-Lanzeflott (Redguard, Stamplar)0 -
Aionna✭✭✭Even as a healer I think it is better to make a nightblade. Better passives, better ultimates and you can deal damage (game, especially in dungeons, favors DPS) heal and be mobile. Your sustain is much better overall and in my opinion, even as a healer, your gameplay will be more diverse. All classes should be like this!
Breath of Life was nerfed yet again without giving it something to compensate for the loss and Healing ritual is way too expensive ...Cleansing ritual is expensive as well, lets no talk about both morphs of restoring aura ... Our sustain is bad and you are forced to slot channeled focus and honestly, because fights are so mobile channeled focus never runs full duration. Our passives suck, our ultimates suck (Nova is too expensive for what it does - there are other ultimates in the game that do more and cost less) and the change to crit healing is going to affect us even more because our defensive skills are based on healing.
Can you still play a templar healer? Sure you can, is it fun though? In my opinion no. Always micromanaging resources, lack of diversity (you go either for the cheaper morph or abilities suck altogether) comparing passives and sustain with other classes is depressing. Abilities getting nerfed constantly and others not getting fixed, Templar is in a sad state.
PS: Apart from all the bug fixing they should also change the Breath of Life icon. It stills shows 3 figures on pts, I find it disturbing
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Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’ve taken restoring focus off my bar on my Stamplar and can’t say I miss it. The benefits seem to be a wash with the opportunity cost of keeping it up. Also saves magicka for ER.
Pretty much just have jabs, POTL, and extended ritual as far as Templar abilities on my bars and I’d be tempted to even give up jabs. Not sure why I bother to get 2 hits and need to gap close/sprint again other than when enemies are stacked. I wonder what it would be like if jabs/ sweeps didn’t snare on the last hit but gave major expedition while channeling. I like running 1h and shield front bar to be a little more tanky in melee so I would have to figure out what to run as a spammable. Maybe worth it to dodge roll more
POTL often times seems only worth it in groups but does still seem to be decent solo when I have a DBOS ready. Closest thing we have for a burst combo.
Chug them like a drunken sailor. Part of the reason I’d like to have it.
Ty for agreeing... told you weeks ago.
Now ... just imagine you actually could get hold to a reliable any form of working CC...
edit: For PVP you may as well try running fortified or armor master (medium) instead of rune focus. Just as effective + defence stacks with immovable pots/skill ... and as far as i noticed you can run smoothly with all divines (given you added some crit.resist in CP) <- I promise its not a joke, all divines, medium armor in PVP and you are amazingly not fodder, but quite capable of surviving.Edited by Elsterchen on May 20, 2018 8:47AM0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭rashiteb17_ESO wrote: »Guys i think it’s time to face the truth. ZOS has no intention to take into account clever and fair improvements that have been asked here.
I hoped for months that ZOS would hear us, but they didnt. Templar is my favorite class and i’m really upset to see nerfs with every new patch
Even if we have 1 buff, there are 3 nerfs coming with it. Overall Templar became too weak.
Our indignation doesnt help. Our advices and pleadings for improvements have no result.
Maybe the only thing to alert ZOS will be a dramatic decrease of Templars ? Maybe when they will see, that nobody is playing the class, they will bring improvements ?
Anyway, i think it’s what happens now. I hoped, i waited, i threatened that i would rerall, but i dont believe anymore. This time i changed the class and created a sorc. Enough is enough.
Well, they listen but time that it taking to implement our feedback is so unbelievably long.
Like Change Honor the Dead to restore mana over 6 sec from 8. Started to talk about it so long time ago again and again and only now we got it:1. "resource restore over time is rough" - ESO Live 2017. And passive that restore resource over 6 sec changed to be instant with smart resource return.
Yes, it is rough, and it especially rough when it is your main spammable ability that's why Honor the Dead can get a bit of love. I offering a change to mana return to be more consistent because in harsh battle this effect will never proc even for 50% of its strength, just think about it for a sec. But ofc change too much will be OP, so I ssuggesting to change mana restore from 8 sec to 6 seconds.
Mana restore will look this way:
12%(i)+12%+12%+12%+12% - old formula
15%(i)+15%+15%+15% - new formula
As it seen upon instant spam in attempt to survive skill will get 3% more mana return, i.e. will become just 3% cheaper, not OP but appreciated buff. It will also promote more smart use: wait to get more mana returned and only than use it, i.e. use another tools to survive to get higher returns. And in such situations lets take example of 2 seconds before next cast: with current formula it will be 12+12=24% mana return, with new formula it would be 30%. 6% difference is not OP but would make morph more reliable given that Templar with such morph loosing his "oh crap" healbot capability.
As I said skill almost never proc for full strength, so morph effect in 80% situations wont proc for tooltip %, simply coz that is how battles going in PvP.
Hopefully feedback of class reps will get attention much faster instead of waiting us for millenias.Edited by Cinbri on May 20, 2018 12:10PM0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »rashiteb17_ESO wrote: »Guys i think it’s time to face the truth. ZOS has no intention to take into account clever and fair improvements that have been asked here.
I hoped for months that ZOS would hear us, but they didnt. Templar is my favorite class and i’m really upset to see nerfs with every new patch
Even if we have 1 buff, there are 3 nerfs coming with it. Overall Templar became too weak.
Our indignation doesnt help. Our advices and pleadings for improvements have no result.
Maybe the only thing to alert ZOS will be a dramatic decrease of Templars ? Maybe when they will see, that nobody is playing the class, they will bring improvements ?
Anyway, i think it’s what happens now. I hoped, i waited, i threatened that i would rerall, but i dont believe anymore. This time i changed the class and created a sorc. Enough is enough.
I did the same. Created a mag sorc and blade during the xp event and right now I'm wondering why I should ever log back onto my templar if he wasn't my crafter ...
Did that long ago with NB and Sorc. Sorc was the last one I did when everything else’s resource recovery was getting nerfed in Morrowind except sorc. Still wind up coming back to my Templar I guess because I’ve had so much time into it from PC launch on. Can’t explain otherwise. Even in Magplars hay day, it was frustrating. guilds and groups wanted you to heal even if you were spec DPS in PvP; they’d get mad when you were on the offensive rather than hiding in a corner spamming BOL. The devs have just managed to reinforce the perception and nerf as if we were all pocket healers.
Stamplar feels to me like the last stand as an aggressive Templar who isn’t relegated to support. And no one expects you to be their healer.Elsterchen wrote: »I’ve taken restoring focus off my bar on my Stamplar and can’t say I miss it. The benefits seem to be a wash with the opportunity cost of keeping it up. Also saves magicka for ER.
Pretty much just have jabs, POTL, and extended ritual as far as Templar abilities on my bars and I’d be tempted to even give up jabs. Not sure why I bother to get 2 hits and need to gap close/sprint again other than when enemies are stacked. I wonder what it would be like if jabs/ sweeps didn’t snare on the last hit but gave major expedition while channeling. I like running 1h and shield front bar to be a little more tanky in melee so I would have to figure out what to run as a spammable. Maybe worth it to dodge roll more
POTL often times seems only worth it in groups but does still seem to be decent solo when I have a DBOS ready. Closest thing we have for a burst combo.
Chug them like a drunken sailor. Part of the reason I’d like to have it.
Ty for agreeing... told you weeks ago.
Now ... just imagine you actually could get hold to a reliable any form of working CC...
edit: For PVP you may as well try running fortified or armor master (medium) instead of rune focus. Just as effective + defence stacks with immovable pots/skill ... and as far as i noticed you can run smoothly with all divines (given you added some crit.resist in CP) <- I promise its not a joke, all divines, medium armor in PVP and you are amazingly not fodder, but quite capable of surviving.
Another reason I like 1h and shield. Good stun and defile.2 -
eserras7b16_ESO✭✭✭✭It just sucks so hard and there's so many ways to defile us in PvP too. It's just unfair and frustrating, I wish i would've selected another class or that i would have other tastes so i could be on line with other classes and i could've fun playing with the class i want to play. I guess i'll keep playing my stamblade or just stop playing.Eptackt - Argonian Templar
Belegrand - Redguard Nightblade0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
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Chug them like a drunken sailor. Part of the reason I’d like to have it.
I use weapon dmg, stamina, speed pots.
And I use channeled focus now over restoring focus. The 8% healing is crap compared to being able to sustain purge.
Then I use immobilze/stam cost poisons on my bow bar (since stamplar can't get an immobilze that's spamable like magplar can.) You can also run poison spray (now undodgable and is unreflected so youll have a better snare than running flying blade/rending slashes.) But I prefer draining shot; build up bow light attack dmg boost from range then draining shot+poison injection+bar swap+blood craze gives you great synergy between bow/dual weld, which is what im practicing for my Monk build.eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »It just sucks so hard and there's so many ways to defile us in PvP too. It's just unfair and frustrating, I wish i would've selected another class or that i would have other tastes so i could be on line with other classes and i could've fun playing with the class i want to play. I guess i'll keep playing my stamblade or just stop playing.
Run malubeth to directly counter defiles. If turtled, and have enough sustain, run vitality pots with restoring rune. Otherwise there arent many sets to help you offset defiles (unlike magplar) and you are better off sustaining purge for defiles/immobilze removal.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So how are people liking Templar now that it’s live?
My Stamplar doesn’t seem much different although I went heavy and tried immovable as there’s a lot of rune cage into overload/meteor. Wish we had better stam management.
Have a magicka build I’m going to run. I just get some success in stam and feel like why not magplar? Seems going to the max resource factoring into LAs and HAs it actually kind of hurts because it’s more damage to give up to run 1h and shield and then we lose block to keep up with the staff Meta0