PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Templar Balance

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

Idk why forum so mad about today patch. No changes today might mean that zos considering and test them, and might introduce it next week with eu transfer, giving eu people at least something to new to test. And I very glad regarding fixed new bug of purifying light, while it sounds small, this bug would hurt skill a lot if it wouldn't be fixed before live, leaving us to wait months for fix again.

I agree. Though light attack change was first weird but then made sense in the end but then back to weird for magplars trying to use solar barrage (everyone kept boasting about 70+k DPS parses and pretended like that was someone going to make it to live lol)

Checkmath

better they fix stuff early than late. but i am a bit confused about what the devs are aiming for with all those light attacks stuff going on. for pvp it looked great to go lightning staff, but now again everything nerfed....so weapons again dont matter that much.

technohic

templesus wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

Hrm, over on live I have an open world stamplar running 5 Hundings, 4 Ashen Grip (yeah, nobody saw THAT one coming.....), 3 agility with wep damage glyphs. 34K stam, 2906 WD, 1944 Stam recovery, Serpent mundus. All divines. Its a pretty decent build.

I'm sorry but that build sounds like it won't perform well in anything outside of zerging.

Hmm. I was going to defend him and say it sounds like a PVE build but he says open world. I won’t even try without impen with a NB and cloak.

Joy_Division

I'd make some snarky comment about the awesome combat changes for templars in the patch notes, but I'll spare the magicka wardens out there.

Briuce

So after the combat balance update we are still back at square one...

Magplars dps are useless, (or as useful as a mouth on your toe, up to you) stamplars are getting shafted, again.

Stamplars dps is getting gutted (light attack changes...) . Its only utility (potw) is being moved to an item set. Cause yeah, stamplar was broken.
I mean, it kept shifting in pve to useless, to "never ever getting a spot in a trial" to "I guess we can bring one, and only one". Yeah, makes sense.

In pvp, yeah stamplar was insane. All that mobility, all those insane repentances replenishing groups stamina. Yeah, i'm glad we won't see all those stamplars around anymore. Cyrodiil was plagued.

I'm glad ZOS took this line. Why fix jabs, why get some decent passives to the spec. No. Let's blanket nerf the class. Let's take that shred of appeal off the stamina part... Oh, and let's keep flooring the magicka part of it, cause, you know, someone might still play the class outside of pve healer... And noone wants that.

Summerset seems like yet another F you to templars patch. "Oh you were a good healer? Yeah... Now you're average. Oh, you wanted to be something different from a healer? Be my guest... I mean, you'll be garbage at it, but go ahead"

I love the class, I love the combat in ESO, I love the lore... But ZOS is doing everything it can to make not want to log on the game. I couldn't even bear myself to get all the free crates this time around.

Enjoy my salt, I guess. I just needed to vent a little.

technohic

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

@Minno I still enjoy stamplar a lot, and will continue to play it. Everyone seems to think it's either cancerously overpowered or laughably underwhelming, but it's a solid class overall.

I think the bleed builds have everyone associating that with being a stamplar thing. I have to admit, I should try a build for that.

and oddly enough, I rolled only blood craze for my only bleed lol. Figured the reason i ran away from magplar was hating having to apply 500 buffs/debuffs/dots and going to a stamplar build trying to do the same thing but with bleeds felt cringy lol.

im liking my "bow single target burst bar swap to melee when they get close" playstyle. Very much Oblivion Monk Roleplay lol

Yeah, Im not a fan of on target dots and build up. I like to hit hard and fast which is kind of counter to templar I guess. Just tried my ravager hundings 1hshied 2 hander build again. I think ive gotten better since last time and really like it. Im a freaking speed pot hog though

Narvuntien

I think I am going to try Vestment of Olorime on my Templar tank.... that doesn't seem insane right?... it has stats I want and I have plenty of ground based effects.

Ebon + Vestment of Olorime seems good to me hmm.

Soris

I know you are working on class balance. So i want to vocalise again my long-lasting biggest wish for templar class.

Bring back Blazing Shield zos come on. Let us utilise that shield in our builds like in the old days. It might even help our stamina sustain issues by not having to dodge roll/block every couple secs.

Seriously now, see how stamblades spamming cloak and shade to avoid damage all together, dks permablocking and spamming shield to get stamina, sorcs spam sheilds and bolt escape, stamplar has nothing but purge which is not a burst counter. Stamplar have only basic dodge and block to counter burst meta and we have no ways to regain lost stamina during fight like other classes. I want my cheap, bigger shield back. It was the best defence tool we had! And it was the only best skill by design to mitigate damage while channeling your jabs.

This video here from 2014, showing how stamplars mitigate damage before you ruined he skill (minus the shield stack). Need this skill back in life again please. It need to be reliable for all builds, Cheaper and bigger shield, better damage. Make it real please.

(couldn't find a better video to showcase the strenghts of the skill and playstyle but i guess you'll get the point)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokUMLRbtkg

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Minno

Soris wrote: »

I know you are working on class balance. So i want to vocalise again my long-lasting biggest wish for templar class.

Bring back Blazing Shield zos come on. Let us utilise that shield in our builds like in the old days. It might even help our stamina sustain issues by not having to dodge roll/block every couple secs.

Seriously now, see how stamblades spamming cloak and shade to avoid damage all together, dks permablocking and spamming shield to get stamina, sorcs spam sheilds and bolt escape, stamplar has nothing but purge which is not a burst counter. Stamplar have only basic dodge and block to counter burst meta and we have no ways to regain lost stamina during fight like other classes. I want my cheap, bigger shield back. It was the best defence tool we had! And it was the only best skill by design to mitigate damage while channeling your jabs.

This video here from 2014, showing how stamplars mitigate damage before you ruined he skill (minus the shield stack). Need this skill back in life again please. It need to be reliable for all builds, Cheaper and bigger shield, better damage. Make it real please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokUMLRbtkg

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Should be noted they are using the old harness mag as well. Long duration and returned mag which inflated the blazing shield strength.

But I agree; the nerf to this spell hurt every Templar trying to protect their house.

Soris

Yes the video is from update 3 i guess, i couldnt find a better one without the shield stacking. Just wanted to show this ancient playstyle that blazing shield had a place in our rotation.

cazlonb16_ESO

Once a patch/DLC has made it to the PTS, there will usually be only minor changes to classes before it goes live. So it's hardly surprising there was nothing in the incremental patch yesterday and you shouldn't expect anything in the remaining 4.0.x either.

Khivas_Carrick

Things @ZoS can do to make Stamplar (and other stuff) more viable for PvE

1) Make it a 2H centric class via better passives for that grand old crusader feeling. Hell, give us better passives period, especially for Dawn's Wrath via Restoring Spirit and Aedric Spear via Balanced Warrior; Make Restoring Spirit actually Restore a portion of the Stamina and Magicka spent for some seconds after using a skill, and make Balanced Warrior increased Spell Damage as well.

2) About those passives, make the values go up the more of those tree skills you have slotted. For instance, Burning Light has a base 25% proc chance, and can be bumped up by 5% per Aedric Spear Skill Slotted. Do the same for Dawn's Wrath and Restoring Light passives, such as Enduring Rays and Mending.

3) Make Power Of The Light a DoT that adds Minor Breach and Fracture to the target and deals a strong amount of Damage over 6 seconds, like 8-10k or whatever. This will allow the move to be less clunky, allow Stamplars to have a DoT, and still maintain some kind of group utility.

4) Binding Javelin is useless, get rid of it. Going into experimental territory, bear with me folks, I propose that this move becomes a Cleave like attack that basically works like a cross between 2H Cleave (hits enemies, they get a DoT) and the Templar is then healed for a percentage of the damage done similar to how Sweeps works. This would help both Tank Specs and Stam DPS Specs. This also grants Stamplars a second DoT that they can use from their class skills instead of seeking out weapon based ones.

5) Biting Jabs. I'll be honest, this skill never really made much sense to me flavor/lore wise. Mechanically it's freaking great, but explain how a sword or ax or dual wielded weapons suddenly become a giant single lance? If we're in the spirit of revamping and changing *** to be craaaaaazy, might as well make Biting Jabs a single target skill where the Templar charges his weapon up with holy light and unleashes a vicious, mighty blow that snares the target and smashes everything near it. Basically, it turns it from a channeled ability to a casted, direct damage one that appeases my eyes and brain more, and isn't at the mercy of glitches that tend to plague channeled abilities.

6) Repentance. *** hell mate this skill is either a wet noodle or hilariously OP. I honestly am not sure how to address this skill, so I'm gonna wing it, so here goes. First, make the bodies thing the base effect of the skill, and for the Repentance morph, do this: If there are bodies around, it consumes up to 3 of those bodies per Templar to restore Health and Stamina. If there are no bodies, it applies Major Health Steal and Minor Stamina Steal to you and your allies. Radiant Aura will do the same but with Magicka instead of Stamina.

7) You guys seem to be struggling with ideas on what you want Breath of Life to be, so why not make it a Breath of Life; i.e make it Mending: The Skill. As the target's HP gets lower, BoL gets stronger. Bam, done, like *** man lol Obviously make it stack with Mending too.

8) Reflective Light: Who uses this? Seriously I don't PvP so idk if you guys use this or not, but I'm guessing no because it feels like there are better snares to use, so...idk......make this a Stamina move where a Templar throws a Dawnguard ax or something to slam into and snare and/or light up the enemy, or a touch spell where you slam a flaming, sun-coated fist into the enemy, and it grants extra crit damage or something.

9) ONE MORE THING! An edit if you will to the Post I made here: All those abilities like Rune Focus and crap where you lay them on the ground? Don't be dumb, make them move with the player, it's a thousand times more intuitive for both PvE and PvP. The whole Defend Your House thing was stupid and never worked, stop trying to make it a thing because it's making you folks look like cast rejects for Mean Girls.

10) 10th slot for a second EDIT: Sun Shield, built in effect for the base portion of this skill: When the shield expires, heal for 15% of your Base Health. This way you get a heal based on HP and it isn't OP because it scales with your base HP, not your super awesome buffed HP like the initial shield.

11) I hate second winds on a late night when I got crap to do in the morning. Explosive Charge. Kill it, rename it Explosive Leap, make it Stamina based. Make it a targeted leap move. ???. Profit.

As my strength wanes, my eyes grow weary and basically I'm really tired folks. I hope these ideas don't sound ridiculous and that ZoS actually listens for once to a player that's been around since Beta of the damn game entirely, as well as the playerbase that's probably been around just as long.

Goodnight all.

Joy_Division

Soris wrote: »

I know you are working on class balance. So i want to vocalise again my long-lasting biggest wish for templar class.

Bring back Blazing Shield zos come on. Let us utilise that shield in our builds like in the old days. It might even help our stamina sustain issues by not having to dodge roll/block every couple secs.

Seriously now, see how stamblades spamming cloak and shade to avoid damage all together, dks permablocking and spamming shield to get stamina, sorcs spam sheilds and bolt escape, stamplar has nothing but purge which is not a burst counter. Stamplar have only basic dodge and block to counter burst meta and we have no ways to regain lost stamina during fight like other classes. I want my cheap, bigger shield back. It was the best defence tool we had! And it was the only best skill by design to mitigate damage while channeling your jabs.

This video here from 2014, showing how stamplars mitigate damage before you ruined he skill (minus the shield stack). Need this skill back in life again please. It need to be reliable for all builds, Cheaper and bigger shield, better damage. Make it real please.

(couldn't find a better video to showcase the strenghts of the skill and playstyle but i guess you'll get the point)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokUMLRbtkg

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The best part of that video...look at how fast that crit rush charge was executed at the 0:58 mark. Wow I knew gap closers were slowed down, but that's just on another level.

Mr_Nobody

Dont be naive guys, really. Buffs and major changes happen at the entry PTS stages, now its only polishing. I think I mentioned in one of my comments before, expect something relevant in 2019. (Relevant I mean still the worst at everything but some numeric changes there and there.

My best guess is a few % damage increase on Jabs, a 1% increase in damage shield per target for BS (lol), idk, guys do you have any troll suggestions? They tend to use them.

TheNightflame

every other week has substantial changes most of the time, next week will be minor, but the week after will hopfeully be good

Stibbons

Templar healers got a huge nerf. No more +10% to crit heals and obvious spell nerfs.

All damage spells have huge travel time, delayd damage, chanel times, absurd cast time or are somewhat clunky or bugged. Blazing shield is just too expensive and possible damage combonent are just poor.

In pvp you just don´t see most of templars class damage spells basically ever.

technohic

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Things @ZoS can do to make Stamplar (and other stuff) more viable for PvE

1) Make it a 2H centric class via better passives for that grand old crusader feeling. Hell, give us better passives period, especially for Dawn's Wrath via Restoring Spirit and Aedric Spear via Balanced Warrior; Make Restoring Spirit actually Restore a portion of the Stamina and Magicka spent for some seconds after using a skill, and make Balanced Warrior increased Spell Damage as well.

2) About those passives, make the values go up the more of those tree skills you have slotted. For instance, Burning Light has a base 25% proc chance, and can be bumped up by 5% per Aedric Spear Skill Slotted. Do the same for Dawn's Wrath and Restoring Light passives, such as Enduring Rays and Mending.

3) Make Power Of The Light a DoT that adds Minor Breach and Fracture to the target and deals a strong amount of Damage over 6 seconds, like 8-10k or whatever. This will allow the move to be less clunky, allow Stamplars to have a DoT, and still maintain some kind of group utility.

4) Binding Javelin is useless, get rid of it. Going into experimental territory, bear with me folks, I propose that this move becomes a Cleave like attack that basically works like a cross between 2H Cleave (hits enemies, they get a DoT) and the Templar is then healed for a percentage of the damage done similar to how Sweeps works. This would help both Tank Specs and Stam DPS Specs. This also grants Stamplars a second DoT that they can use from their class skills instead of seeking out weapon based ones.

5) Biting Jabs. I'll be honest, this skill never really made much sense to me flavor/lore wise. Mechanically it's freaking great, but explain how a sword or ax or dual wielded weapons suddenly become a giant single lance? If we're in the spirit of revamping and changing *** to be craaaaaazy, might as well make Biting Jabs a single target skill where the Templar charges his weapon up with holy light and unleashes a vicious, mighty blow that snares the target and smashes everything near it. Basically, it turns it from a channeled ability to a casted, direct damage one that appeases my eyes and brain more, and isn't at the mercy of glitches that tend to plague channeled abilities.

6) Repentance. *** hell mate this skill is either a wet noodle or hilariously OP. I honestly am not sure how to address this skill, so I'm gonna wing it, so here goes. First, make the bodies thing the base effect of the skill, and for the Repentance morph, do this: If there are bodies around, it consumes up to 3 of those bodies per Templar to restore Health and Stamina. If there are no bodies, it applies Major Health Steal and Minor Stamina Steal to you and your allies. Radiant Aura will do the same but with Magicka instead of Stamina.

7) You guys seem to be struggling with ideas on what you want Breath of Life to be, so why not make it a Breath of Life; i.e make it Mending: The Skill. As the target's HP gets lower, BoL gets stronger. Bam, done, like *** man lol Obviously make it stack with Mending too.

8) Reflective Light: Who uses this? Seriously I don't PvP so idk if you guys use this or not, but I'm guessing no because it feels like there are better snares to use, so...idk......make this a Stamina move where a Templar throws a Dawnguard ax or something to slam into and snare and/or light up the enemy, or a touch spell where you slam a flaming, sun-coated fist into the enemy, and it grants extra crit damage or something.

9) ONE MORE THING! An edit if you will to the Post I made here: All those abilities like Rune Focus and crap where you lay them on the ground? Don't be dumb, make them move with the player, it's a thousand times more intuitive for both PvE and PvP. The whole Defend Your House thing was stupid and never worked, stop trying to make it a thing because it's making you folks look like cast rejects for Mean Girls.

10) 10th slot for a second EDIT: Sun Shield, built in effect for the base portion of this skill: When the shield expires, heal for 15% of your Base Health. This way you get a heal based on HP and it isn't OP because it scales with your base HP, not your super awesome buffed HP like the initial shield.

11) I hate second winds on a late night when I got crap to do in the morning. Explosive Charge. Kill it, rename it Explosive Leap, make it Stamina based. Make it a targeted leap move. ???. Profit.

As my strength wanes, my eyes grow weary and basically I'm really tired folks. I hope these ideas don't sound ridiculous and that ZoS actually listens for once to a player that's been around since Beta of the damn game entirely, as well as the playerbase that's probably been around just as long.

Goodnight all.

Binding javelin is crucial to me as a Stamplar in PvP as a ranged stam class ability. Don’t want to see that gone.

Biting jabs also as much as I have complained about it; it makes a certain set really good on Stamplar. You r suggestion sounds like you could get what you want from dizzying swing/wrecking blow. All that is needed is a slight buff and/or taking a look at defense CP double dipping on it.

Reflective light I think is the preferred morph in PVP.

Hymzir

Soris wrote: »

I know you are working on class balance. So i want to vocalise again my long-lasting biggest wish for templar class.

Bring back Blazing Shield zos come on. Let us utilise that shield in our builds like in the old days. It might even help our stamina sustain issues by not having to dodge roll/block every couple secs.

Seriously now, see how stamblades spamming cloak and shade to avoid damage all together, dks permablocking and spamming shield to get stamina, sorcs spam sheilds and bolt escape, stamplar has nothing but purge which is not a burst counter. Stamplar have only basic dodge and block to counter burst meta and we have no ways to regain lost stamina during fight like other classes. I want my cheap, bigger shield back. It was the best defence tool we had! And it was the only best skill by design to mitigate damage while channeling your jabs.

This video here from 2014, showing how stamplars mitigate damage before you ruined he skill (minus the shield stack). Need this skill back in life again please. It need to be reliable for all builds, Cheaper and bigger shield, better damage. Make it real please.

(couldn't find a better video to showcase the strenghts of the skill and playstyle but i guess you'll get the point)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokUMLRbtkg

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The thing that I got from that video, is how much slower the gameplay used to be. Back then people were standing in place and trading blows, compared to the way things play these days. Everyone is running around, hugging terrain, constantly dodge rolling and employing hit and run tactics and relying on massive instant burst.

Also the TTK was way lower back then, the numbers are higher and people are weaving light attacks and abusing macroes to add light attack and bash along with poison procs to each skill used. Remember when staff light attacks used weapon damage and not spell damage? Weaving just was not as important as it is now.

At 1:54 the Templar gets knocked down and hits the floor at 1:55, staying down stunned for 3 seconds, and only rejoins the fight at 1:59. During that time the sorc opponent lands couple of light attacks and force pulses. I just don't see that happening these days. Even the least talented sorc can kill a stunned opponent when they have 5 seconds to dump damage on an unresponsive target.

The thing to note is, that this does not invalidate anything posted by Soris, and I actually agree on the basic premise of what was said about Templar shield. I was just struck by how slow the fight went. The game has evolved, through mechanical changes, through power creep, through the development of better battlefield tactics, and with the introduction of new gear. Everything points towards a more mobile, more bursty way of playing, were things must happen now or they might as well not happen at all.

And Templars are slow by design.. The cast times, the channels, the lack of mobility, the ground based buffs... Even the almost instant nature of BoL.(Remember: Templars are supposed to anticipate damage.) The list just keeps going on and on.

Templars are a relic of a bygone era. The game has changed, the tactics have evolved and Templars have been left sitting in the dust.

...

As an aside note, the thing about jabs is that Templars are "channeled" towards playing a jab build. A large portion of the damage potential of the class is tied to Burning Light procs. And to get that proc go off reliably, you need to use jabs. But the skill does not work against other players, since they will just move out of it's AOE. Or root the Templar and ignore all damage. Plus there is the issue with lag and targetting and so on. In PVE, where the mobs are too stupid to avoid the damage, the skill performs fine.

My suggestion is to change Burning Light to proc from damage in general, when you have an Aedric Spear ability slotted, not just from Aedric Spear skills. This would free Templars to go for all sort of different builds, and retain our damage potential, and use skills for PVP that work in PVP. And use jabs in PVE where it performs just fine.

I don't think it would be unbalanced, although non-templar players would prolly whine a lot once again, when Templars started to actually manage to dish out damage once more. A lot of the player base has grown accustomed to Templars hitting like wet noodles.

The actual damage a Templar can dish out with jabs is pretty decent, as long as all the hits land. The issue is that you never land those hits in PVP - so making burning light proc from what ever attacks you are using would not, in my mind at least, change the actual damage potential all that much. It would just mean that Templars could actually dish out decent damage for a change. If it turns out to over perform, then tune the numbers. But please let me run a viable builds, that benefits from my class passives, without having to rely on jabs.

Also change the Mending passive to cover all healing, not just Restoring Light heals, so that my Stamplar has a reason to place points in that passive.

tinythinker

Joy_Division wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

I know you are working on class balance. So i want to vocalise again my long-lasting biggest wish for templar class.

Bring back Blazing Shield zos come on. Let us utilise that shield in our builds like in the old days. It might even help our stamina sustain issues by not having to dodge roll/block every couple secs.

Seriously now, see how stamblades spamming cloak and shade to avoid damage all together, dks permablocking and spamming shield to get stamina, sorcs spam sheilds and bolt escape, stamplar has nothing but purge which is not a burst counter. Stamplar have only basic dodge and block to counter burst meta and we have no ways to regain lost stamina during fight like other classes. I want my cheap, bigger shield back. It was the best defence tool we had! And it was the only best skill by design to mitigate damage while channeling your jabs.

This video here from 2014, showing how stamplars mitigate damage before you ruined he skill (minus the shield stack). Need this skill back in life again please. It need to be reliable for all builds, Cheaper and bigger shield, better damage. Make it real please.

(couldn't find a better video to showcase the strenghts of the skill and playstyle but i guess you'll get the point)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokUMLRbtkg

The best part of that video...look at how fast that crit rush charge was executed at the 0:58 mark. Wow I knew gap closers were slowed down, but that's just on another level.

Back when nearly everyone was partly hybrid because of how sets/abilities/stats worked. Oh well.

- - - - - - - -

Not much to say atm for this PTS cycle. The combat system will go in whatever direction they are already headed, so take it (and Templars) or leave it for Summerset minus some tiny peripheral tweaks. The idea of a grand rework of the class theme, or overall combat systems, or major overhauls to specific class skills, is like one of the stages of denial. Fewer and smaller changes to classes is the new normal. A lot of the creativity has moved from class skills to sets so those kind of indicate what they are looking at for solutions to combat issues and the style of combat they are promoting.

It can be enjoyable coming up with helpful and fun ideas, and I like sharing and discussing suggestions as some may have noticed, but it's expecting to actually get them implemented that depresses people. It's like the legion of WoW players who threaten to unsub every time a class or iconic skill gets reworked. The game keeps on keeping on with or without them.

- - - - - - - - - -

That said I'm kid of dumb and stubborn, so look to the combat forums for a thread or two on specific templar issues so that there can be more focused discussion and not have it tied to a PTS thread that will get lost when the patch hits live. Still asking for subforums there for each class to have more sustainable and focuses discussions that are easier to find and sort through.

jediprime74

technohic wrote: »

Binding javelin is crucial to me as a Stamplar in PvP as a ranged stam class ability. Don’t want to see that gone.

Biting jabs also as much as I have complained about it; it makes a certain set really good on Stamplar. You r suggestion sounds like you could get what you want from dizzying swing/wrecking blow. All that is needed is a slight buff and/or taking a look at defense CP double dipping on it.

Reflective light I think is the preferred morph in PVP.

That certain set is why I am still very competitive in PvP with my stamplar. If jabs or that set are changed then stamplars are pretty much going to be...subpar...in PvP. Burning light even allows the set to proc off of javelin, which is helpful as well.

So...while I always like to see fresh ideas or the stamplar I do NOT want jabs changed much (other than maybe expanding the arc or adding more damage), and I would like javelin finessed so that maybe it doesn't knock them all the way out of melee range.

The biggest complaint I have about a stamplar is the lack of sustain. There are sets to help with that, but always at a cost to other combat effectiveness. Stamplars really need something more reliable than the current Repentance morph, maybe a 'take damage = get some stam' or 'kill an enemy = get some stam over time' just...something...that isn't all or nothing like Repentance is right now, where all the stamplars are in a mad panic to try to hit Repentance before some other stamplar does.

Bonzodog01

technohic wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

Hrm, over on live I have an open world stamplar running 5 Hundings, 4 Ashen Grip (yeah, nobody saw THAT one coming.....), 3 agility with wep damage glyphs. 34K stam, 2906 WD, 1944 Stam recovery, Serpent mundus. All divines. Its a pretty decent build.

I'm sorry but that build sounds like it won't perform well in anything outside of zerging.

Hmm. I was going to defend him and say it sounds like a PVE build but he says open world. I won’t even try without impen with a NB and cloak.

Actually, by open world, I though you meant like overland pve questing etc. Now I see you mean cyrodiil pvp. OK, So I mean its a general build I put together for PvE overland questing, public dungeons etc.

If I was to build for cyrodiil pvp, I would build an impen set obviously, then would have to work out the whole recovery thing.

Solariken

Hymzir wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

I know you are working on class balance. So i want to vocalise again my long-lasting biggest wish for templar class.

Bring back Blazing Shield zos come on. Let us utilise that shield in our builds like in the old days. It might even help our stamina sustain issues by not having to dodge roll/block every couple secs.

Seriously now, see how stamblades spamming cloak and shade to avoid damage all together, dks permablocking and spamming shield to get stamina, sorcs spam sheilds and bolt escape, stamplar has nothing but purge which is not a burst counter. Stamplar have only basic dodge and block to counter burst meta and we have no ways to regain lost stamina during fight like other classes. I want my cheap, bigger shield back. It was the best defence tool we had! And it was the only best skill by design to mitigate damage while channeling your jabs.

This video here from 2014, showing how stamplars mitigate damage before you ruined he skill (minus the shield stack). Need this skill back in life again please. It need to be reliable for all builds, Cheaper and bigger shield, better damage. Make it real please.

(couldn't find a better video to showcase the strenghts of the skill and playstyle but i guess you'll get the point)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokUMLRbtkg

@ZOS_GinaBruno

My suggestion is to change Burning Light to proc from damage in general, when you have an Aedric Spear ability slotted, not just from Aedric Spear skills. This would free Templars to go for all sort of different builds, and retain our damage potential, and use skills for PVP that work in PVP. And use jabs in PVE where it performs just fine.

Also change the Mending passive to cover all healing, not just Restoring Light heals, so that my Stamplar has a reason to place points in that passive.

Totally agree with these - I've suggested the same. Burning Light should indeed proc on ALL DOTs (adjust dmg and/or cooldown to compensate).

But the two changes you listed would allow the Templar class to synergize so much better with the rest of the game. BL forces us to jab spam and Mending is only good for Breath/Honor spam in most practical situations. We need to be reasonably un-tethered from those skills (though they are great skills).

templesus

jediprime74 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Binding javelin is crucial to me as a Stamplar in PvP as a ranged stam class ability. Don’t want to see that gone.

Biting jabs also as much as I have complained about it; it makes a certain set really good on Stamplar. You r suggestion sounds like you could get what you want from dizzying swing/wrecking blow. All that is needed is a slight buff and/or taking a look at defense CP double dipping on it.

Reflective light I think is the preferred morph in PVP.

That certain set is why I am still very competitive in PvP with my stamplar. If jabs or that set are changed then stamplars are pretty much going to be...subpar...in PvP. Burning light even allows the set to proc off of javelin, which is helpful as well.

So...while I always like to see fresh ideas or the stamplar I do NOT want jabs changed much (other than maybe expanding the arc or adding more damage), and I would like javelin finessed so that maybe it doesn't knock them all the way out of melee range.

The biggest complaint I have about a stamplar is the lack of sustain. There are sets to help with that, but always at a cost to other combat effectiveness. Stamplars really need something more reliable than the current Repentance morph, maybe a 'take damage = get some stam' or 'kill an enemy = get some stam over time' just...something...that isn't all or nothing like Repentance is right now, where all the stamplars are in a mad panic to try to hit Repentance before some other stamplar does.

There are several sets that can make stamplar competitive in PvP. I prefer not to use the set you are referring to as I feel it’s too meta with all stamplars, and have found several other ways to pull off some good stats. The problem with stamplar is Jabs lackluster directional conal system and having to sacrifice damage for sustain more then all the other classes in the game. That’s not what you call “balance” especially since we don’t even hit the hardest.

Khivas_Carrick

technohic wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Things @ZoS can do to make Stamplar (and other stuff) more viable for PvE

1) Make it a 2H centric class via better passives for that grand old crusader feeling. Hell, give us better passives period, especially for Dawn's Wrath via Restoring Spirit and Aedric Spear via Balanced Warrior; Make Restoring Spirit actually Restore a portion of the Stamina and Magicka spent for some seconds after using a skill, and make Balanced Warrior increased Spell Damage as well.

2) About those passives, make the values go up the more of those tree skills you have slotted. For instance, Burning Light has a base 25% proc chance, and can be bumped up by 5% per Aedric Spear Skill Slotted. Do the same for Dawn's Wrath and Restoring Light passives, such as Enduring Rays and Mending.

3) Make Power Of The Light a DoT that adds Minor Breach and Fracture to the target and deals a strong amount of Damage over 6 seconds, like 8-10k or whatever. This will allow the move to be less clunky, allow Stamplars to have a DoT, and still maintain some kind of group utility.

4) Binding Javelin is useless, get rid of it. Going into experimental territory, bear with me folks, I propose that this move becomes a Cleave like attack that basically works like a cross between 2H Cleave (hits enemies, they get a DoT) and the Templar is then healed for a percentage of the damage done similar to how Sweeps works. This would help both Tank Specs and Stam DPS Specs. This also grants Stamplars a second DoT that they can use from their class skills instead of seeking out weapon based ones.

5) Biting Jabs. I'll be honest, this skill never really made much sense to me flavor/lore wise. Mechanically it's freaking great, but explain how a sword or ax or dual wielded weapons suddenly become a giant single lance? If we're in the spirit of revamping and changing *** to be craaaaaazy, might as well make Biting Jabs a single target skill where the Templar charges his weapon up with holy light and unleashes a vicious, mighty blow that snares the target and smashes everything near it. Basically, it turns it from a channeled ability to a casted, direct damage one that appeases my eyes and brain more, and isn't at the mercy of glitches that tend to plague channeled abilities.

6) Repentance. *** hell mate this skill is either a wet noodle or hilariously OP. I honestly am not sure how to address this skill, so I'm gonna wing it, so here goes. First, make the bodies thing the base effect of the skill, and for the Repentance morph, do this: If there are bodies around, it consumes up to 3 of those bodies per Templar to restore Health and Stamina. If there are no bodies, it applies Major Health Steal and Minor Stamina Steal to you and your allies. Radiant Aura will do the same but with Magicka instead of Stamina.

7) You guys seem to be struggling with ideas on what you want Breath of Life to be, so why not make it a Breath of Life; i.e make it Mending: The Skill. As the target's HP gets lower, BoL gets stronger. Bam, done, like *** man lol Obviously make it stack with Mending too.

8) Reflective Light: Who uses this? Seriously I don't PvP so idk if you guys use this or not, but I'm guessing no because it feels like there are better snares to use, so...idk......make this a Stamina move where a Templar throws a Dawnguard ax or something to slam into and snare and/or light up the enemy, or a touch spell where you slam a flaming, sun-coated fist into the enemy, and it grants extra crit damage or something.

9) ONE MORE THING! An edit if you will to the Post I made here: All those abilities like Rune Focus and crap where you lay them on the ground? Don't be dumb, make them move with the player, it's a thousand times more intuitive for both PvE and PvP. The whole Defend Your House thing was stupid and never worked, stop trying to make it a thing because it's making you folks look like cast rejects for Mean Girls.

10) 10th slot for a second EDIT: Sun Shield, built in effect for the base portion of this skill: When the shield expires, heal for 15% of your Base Health. This way you get a heal based on HP and it isn't OP because it scales with your base HP, not your super awesome buffed HP like the initial shield.

11) I hate second winds on a late night when I got crap to do in the morning. Explosive Charge. Kill it, rename it Explosive Leap, make it Stamina based. Make it a targeted leap move. ???. Profit.

As my strength wanes, my eyes grow weary and basically I'm really tired folks. I hope these ideas don't sound ridiculous and that ZoS actually listens for once to a player that's been around since Beta of the damn game entirely, as well as the playerbase that's probably been around just as long.

Goodnight all.

Binding javelin is crucial to me as a Stamplar in PvP as a ranged stam class ability. Don’t want to see that gone.

Biting jabs also as much as I have complained about it; it makes a certain set really good on Stamplar. You r suggestion sounds like you could get what you want from dizzying swing/wrecking blow. All that is needed is a slight buff and/or taking a look at defense CP double dipping on it.

Reflective light I think is the preferred morph in PVP.

Read my suggestions again, because I'm literally saying make Jabs a direct damage skill instead of a channel. Keep all other aspects of it, just make it more burst than over time.

If you use Binding Javelin, then cool, keep it.

The rest I think aren't terrible but I saw the idea for having Burning Light Proc on all DoTs, and as a Poison build, I am ALL for that idea lol

Checkmath

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Things @ZoS can do to make Stamplar (and other stuff) more viable for PvE

1) Make it a 2H centric class via better passives for that grand old crusader feeling. Hell, give us better passives period, especially for Dawn's Wrath via Restoring Spirit and Aedric Spear via Balanced Warrior; Make Restoring Spirit actually Restore a portion of the Stamina and Magicka spent for some seconds after using a skill, and make Balanced Warrior increased Spell Damage as well.

2) About those passives, make the values go up the more of those tree skills you have slotted. For instance, Burning Light has a base 25% proc chance, and can be bumped up by 5% per Aedric Spear Skill Slotted. Do the same for Dawn's Wrath and Restoring Light passives, such as Enduring Rays and Mending.

3) Make Power Of The Light a DoT that adds Minor Breach and Fracture to the target and deals a strong amount of Damage over 6 seconds, like 8-10k or whatever. This will allow the move to be less clunky, allow Stamplars to have a DoT, and still maintain some kind of group utility.

4) Binding Javelin is useless, get rid of it. Going into experimental territory, bear with me folks, I propose that this move becomes a Cleave like attack that basically works like a cross between 2H Cleave (hits enemies, they get a DoT) and the Templar is then healed for a percentage of the damage done similar to how Sweeps works. This would help both Tank Specs and Stam DPS Specs. This also grants Stamplars a second DoT that they can use from their class skills instead of seeking out weapon based ones.

5) Biting Jabs. I'll be honest, this skill never really made much sense to me flavor/lore wise. Mechanically it's freaking great, but explain how a sword or ax or dual wielded weapons suddenly become a giant single lance? If we're in the spirit of revamping and changing *** to be craaaaaazy, might as well make Biting Jabs a single target skill where the Templar charges his weapon up with holy light and unleashes a vicious, mighty blow that snares the target and smashes everything near it. Basically, it turns it from a channeled ability to a casted, direct damage one that appeases my eyes and brain more, and isn't at the mercy of glitches that tend to plague channeled abilities.

6) Repentance. *** hell mate this skill is either a wet noodle or hilariously OP. I honestly am not sure how to address this skill, so I'm gonna wing it, so here goes. First, make the bodies thing the base effect of the skill, and for the Repentance morph, do this: If there are bodies around, it consumes up to 3 of those bodies per Templar to restore Health and Stamina. If there are no bodies, it applies Major Health Steal and Minor Stamina Steal to you and your allies. Radiant Aura will do the same but with Magicka instead of Stamina.

7) You guys seem to be struggling with ideas on what you want Breath of Life to be, so why not make it a Breath of Life; i.e make it Mending: The Skill. As the target's HP gets lower, BoL gets stronger. Bam, done, like *** man lol Obviously make it stack with Mending too.

8) Reflective Light: Who uses this? Seriously I don't PvP so idk if you guys use this or not, but I'm guessing no because it feels like there are better snares to use, so...idk......make this a Stamina move where a Templar throws a Dawnguard ax or something to slam into and snare and/or light up the enemy, or a touch spell where you slam a flaming, sun-coated fist into the enemy, and it grants extra crit damage or something.

9) ONE MORE THING! An edit if you will to the Post I made here: All those abilities like Rune Focus and crap where you lay them on the ground? Don't be dumb, make them move with the player, it's a thousand times more intuitive for both PvE and PvP. The whole Defend Your House thing was stupid and never worked, stop trying to make it a thing because it's making you folks look like cast rejects for Mean Girls.

10) 10th slot for a second EDIT: Sun Shield, built in effect for the base portion of this skill: When the shield expires, heal for 15% of your Base Health. This way you get a heal based on HP and it isn't OP because it scales with your base HP, not your super awesome buffed HP like the initial shield.

11) I hate second winds on a late night when I got crap to do in the morning. Explosive Charge. Kill it, rename it Explosive Leap, make it Stamina based. Make it a targeted leap move. ???. Profit.

As my strength wanes, my eyes grow weary and basically I'm really tired folks. I hope these ideas don't sound ridiculous and that ZoS actually listens for once to a player that's been around since Beta of the damn game entirely, as well as the playerbase that's probably been around just as long.

Goodnight all.

Binding javelin is crucial to me as a Stamplar in PvP as a ranged stam class ability. Don’t want to see that gone.

Biting jabs also as much as I have complained about it; it makes a certain set really good on Stamplar. You r suggestion sounds like you could get what you want from dizzying swing/wrecking blow. All that is needed is a slight buff and/or taking a look at defense CP double dipping on it.

Reflective light I think is the preferred morph in PVP.

Read my suggestions again, because I'm literally saying make Jabs a direct damage skill instead of a channel. Keep all other aspects of it, just make it more burst than over time.

If you use Binding Javelin, then cool, keep it.

The rest I think aren't terrible but I saw the idea for having Burning Light Proc on all DoTs, and as a Poison build, I am ALL for that idea lol

so you want it to be similar to brawler of the 2h skillline? just not with bleeding attached to it, but still all the effects?
would be interresting to see that change, cant really imagine it, since i player so long with the channeled jabs. at least a step into your direction would be to shorten the casttime, so we could weave more reliably and also hit moving targets with several hits and not only one.

BohnT

@ZOS_Wrobel here is a short list what stamplars would thankfully read in the patch notes.

-increase the range of radial sweep and its morphs to 8m and increase the base damage by 33% (reduce bonus damage of Crescent sweep to 25%)

-Fix all the bugs related to jabs and radial sweep!!!

-give us a sustain mechanic that actually works in a fight

-javalin becomes a meele low slash that stuns the enemy (both blockable and dodgeable !)

Narvuntien

Templar tanks also want a stamina sustain mechanic that works while blocking....
and some low cost AoE CC ability.

Sliver leash and Time stop aren't bad but....
The nature of templar passives that encourage using templar skills leaves us with no bar space. Need an aedric spear skill for block cost reduction and need a, other skill line, to give the group minor prophecy, want repentance for regen and our self purge. Then there are S&B skills and... then we are forced to use guild skills for CC... no space

I think giving the other rune skill morph give stam (even better for tanks if it still costs mag) and for the love of god give one of the spear shards skills its stun back (even if you take away all of its damage).

I kind of don't expect them to have enough time to make these changes this pts cycle.

Brotherchaotic

Just help the jabs/sweep actually land. In video below, wife ran a circle around me to show jabs miss even in range while knowing where she is running and tracking her.
https://youtu.be/J2dWldxojQA
I could stun a player but before my final hit with jabs I miss the awesome 70% speed reduction because they break free. Snare should be first hit.

Where in PvE I can run around and hit anything even if I'm moving everywhere like a madman. Like this.
https://youtu.be/DTcmIdc2_Sg

Jabs/sweeps seems almost like a PvE only skill.

Minno

Brotherchaotic wrote: »

Just help the jabs/sweep actually land. In video below, wife ran a circle around me to show jabs miss even in range while knowing where she is running and tracking her.
https://youtu.be/J2dWldxojQA
I could stun a player but before my final hit with jabs I miss the awesome 70% speed reduction because they break free. Snare should be first hit.

Where in PvE I can run around and hit anything even if I'm moving everywhere like a madman. Like this.
https://youtu.be/DTcmIdc2_Sg

Jabs/sweeps seems almost like a PvE only skill.

Yea it sucks. .

That's why I'm championing for roots in the Templar kit. If you can lock down your target and cc with a stun, jabs has a really high efficiency. But even stamplar doesn't have a root or immobilze; unlike DK/Sorc/NB who have other efficient ways to control the enemy.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Narvuntien wrote: »

Templar tanks also want a stamina sustain mechanic that works while blocking....
and some low cost AoE CC ability.

Sliver leash and Time stop aren't bad but....
The nature of templar passives that encourage using templar skills leaves us with no bar space. Need an aedric spear skill for block cost reduction and need a, other skill line, to give the group minor prophecy, want repentance for regen and our self purge. Then there are S&B skills and... then we are forced to use guild skills for CC... no space

I think giving the other rune skill morph give stam (even better for tanks if it still costs mag) and for the love of god give one of the spear shards skills its stun back (even if you take away all of its damage).

I kind of don't expect them to have enough time to make these changes this pts cycle.

Templar tank bar

Absord magic- radiant ward- repentance- heroic slash- Pierce armor- ulti empowering sweep

Luminous shard- restoring focus- time freeze- power of the light- silver leash- ulti warhorn

Bam all the skills you need. If only temps had a percentage based heal like all the other classes now.