PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Templar Balance

ezio45

Was hoping to get some quick insight into how magplars are this patch. I main a sorc but but magplar is my second favorite class and i was hoping it they would get some well deserved buffs this patch. dps wise, I assume there still top of the healling classes.

Mr_Nobody

ezio45 wrote: »

Was hoping to get some quick insight into how magplars are this patch. I main a sorc but but magplar is my second favorite class and i was hoping it they would get some well deserved buffs this patch. dps wise, I assume there still top of the healling classes.

same, just worse at healing.

ezio45

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Was hoping to get some quick insight into how magplars are this patch. I main a sorc but but magplar is my second favorite class and i was hoping it they would get some well deserved buffs this patch. dps wise, I assume there still top of the healling classes.

same, just worse at healing.

that is very depressing, i still think magplars are the only viably healing class

Mr_Nobody

ezio45 wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Was hoping to get some quick insight into how magplars are this patch. I main a sorc but but magplar is my second favorite class and i was hoping it they would get some well deserved buffs this patch. dps wise, I assume there still top of the healling classes.

same, just worse at healing.

that is very depressing, i still think magplars are the only viably healing class

Not really, at least now you dont need to have templars-only for heals. The only 1 reason to have a templar now will be just for that instant single target heal, nothing more.

No one is going to use any of these new morphs and nerfed BoL for that matter.

DPS wise we are still at the bottom, for both pve and pvp. Stamina is a different story but then again, you can deal damage on any stam toon and I believe playing stamina templar in raids is cancerous and hard itself since you can only have 1.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

ezio45 wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Was hoping to get some quick insight into how magplars are this patch. I main a sorc but but magplar is my second favorite class and i was hoping it they would get some well deserved buffs this patch. dps wise, I assume there still top of the healling classes.

same, just worse at healing.

that is very depressing, i still think magplars are the only viably healing class

All classes can heal viably, it is this line of thinking that keep Templars low on the totem pole for DPS and tanking.

ezio45

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Was hoping to get some quick insight into how magplars are this patch. I main a sorc but but magplar is my second favorite class and i was hoping it they would get some well deserved buffs this patch. dps wise, I assume there still top of the healling classes.

same, just worse at healing.

that is very depressing, i still think magplars are the only viably healing class

All classes can heal viably, it is this line of thinking that keep Templars low on the totem pole for DPS and tanking.

i still prefer templars as my healers, dont like warden healers period. I dont see why templars would have to be bad at dps to be a good healer class, let them have both.

Brotherchaotic

In regards to Pvp dps, biting jabs and puncturing sweeps can't hit a moving player.

Minno

Brotherchaotic wrote: »

In regards to Pvp dps, biting jabs and puncturing sweeps can't hit a moving player.

Thats why you use dawnbreaker stun and only after getting below 70% if you can help it.

casparian

Brotherchaotic wrote: »

In regards to Pvp dps, biting jabs and puncturing sweeps can't hit a moving player.

In my experience, Jabs can't hit a stationary NPC in Vivec due to lag. But if you can avoid lag and play around your CC, it's a great skill.

tinythinker

Here you go:

We truly appreciate all the time and effort everyone has put into writing their feedback on current class balance. In hindsight, we realized the previous patch notes may have implied that balance changes specifically for class abilities would be included in upcoming PTS patches for Update 18. To be clear, our focus for the remaining PTS updates will be iteration and polish for the Psijic Order skill line, Light and Heavy Attack balancing, updating item sets, and fixing bugs. We are, however, collecting all your class feedback and will work on improving class balance in future updates.

danno8

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

We truly appreciate all the time and effort everyone has put into writing their feedback on current class balance. In hindsight, we realized the previous patch notes may have implied that balance changes specifically for class abilities would be included in upcoming PTS patches for Update 18. To be clear, our focus for the remaining PTS updates will be iteration and polish for the Psijic Order skill line, Light and Heavy Attack balancing, updating item sets, and fixing bugs. We are, however, collecting all your class feedback and will work on improving class balance in future updates.

So looks like we were all pretty much wasting our time testing changes and providing feedback.

"Future updates"? Yah, not likely to bother testing those either.

templesus

Time to log out of forums. Seems we are wasting our time here. Here’s to hoping next year stamplar will be shown some sustain love, although after 5 years of the game being out I cannot say I’m hopeful.

Elsterchen

tinythinker wrote: »

Here you go:

We truly appreciate all the time and effort everyone has put into writing their feedback on current class balance. In hindsight, we realized the previous patch notes may have implied that balance changes specifically for class abilities would be included in upcoming PTS patches for Update 18. To be clear, our focus for the remaining PTS updates will be iteration and polish for the Psijic Order skill line, Light and Heavy Attack balancing, updating item sets, and fixing bugs. We are, however, collecting all your class feedback and will work on improving class balance in future updates.

Didn't we have something along very similar lines last DLC already?

i.e. We will make the next big balancing update with next update (which is why people actually expected it for SI), or am I having a deja vu?

Neoauspex

Called it.

Solariken

Another bait and switch. What a waste. Forget "class balancing," at least fix some broken and badly designed things FFS.

roksolana_sowa

Stamplars need some love.
First of all - they will have terrible sustain problems next patch, with this HA nerfs and trying to do more LA. I really enjoy weaving in this game but stamina need some attention to balance sustain and dps.
Also I still don]t understand one thing - why even magika spam skill (Puncturing Sweep) heals u. Magplars have enough class healing abilities, they really need it even on sweep? I think more logic give it to Biting Jabs.

Minno

roksolana_sowa wrote: »

Stamplars need some love.
First of all - they will have terrible sustain problems next patch, with this HA nerfs and trying to do more LA. I really enjoy weaving in this game but stamina need some attention to balance sustain and dps.
Also I still don]t understand one thing - why even magika spam skill (Puncturing Sweep) heals u. Magplars have enough class healing abilities, they really need it even on sweep? I think more logic give it to Biting Jabs.

do you want jabs crit chance buff to be removed? because thats how you get the crit chance buff removed lol

tinythinker

Neoauspex wrote: »

Called it.

It didn't answer.

Joy_Division

II have no idea how anyone who is active on these forums thinks that ZoS is going to make significant changes with regards to class balance. II just SMH at all those people who slam F5 on patch day, waiting to get on the first page and express their surprise and disappointment that there aren't any class balance changes.

Have people been paying attention? There has not been a patch that was dedicated to looking and reforming fundamental class issues for years. At most they'll be maybe a patch once a year that will tweak/rework like two skills, but that's it. And everything else is some sort of change that called an adjustment, when most of the time it is a nerf of some sort

The devs seem content with the basic layout and fundamental working of the classes and their skills and their passives. So they devote their resources elsewhere. Go back through years of patch notes and try and find any that actually have fundamental reexamination and reform of how the classes work. You're going to have to go back a long time. Most of them are just like this one: we get one meaningful change (Healing Ritual to finally lost its cast time), but that's pretty much it aside from a tweak here and there (burning light, standardization of enduring rays) and the obligatory breath of life nerf.

Minno

Solariken wrote: »

Another bait and switch. What a waste. Forget "class balancing," at least fix some broken and badly designed things FFS.

yea but they are still selecting "class" reps. So at most, won't see anything related to pain points being solved till 2019.

That's my guess.

GallantGuardian

What a waste of A thread it’s been over a year since you said templars are going to get a rework ... looks like they aren’t at all

Elsterchen

Joy_Division wrote: »

II have no idea how anyone who is active on these forums thinks that ZoS is going to make significant changes with regards to class balance. II just SMH at all those people who slam F5 on patch day, waiting to get on the first page and express their surprise and disappointment that there aren't any class balance changes.

Have people been paying attention? There has not been a patch that was dedicated to looking and reforming fundamental class issues for years. At most they'll be maybe a patch once a year that will tweak/rework like two skills, but that's it. And everything else is some sort of change that called an adjustment, when most of the time it is a nerf of some sort

The devs seem content with the basic layout and fundamental working of the classes and their skills and their passives. So they devote their resources elsewhere. Go back through years of patch notes and try and find any that actually have fundamental reexamination and reform of how the classes work. You're going to have to go back a long time. Most of them are just like this one: we get one meaningful change (Healing Ritual to finally lost its cast time), but that's pretty much it aside from a tweak here and there (burning light, standardization of enduring rays) and the obligatory breath of life nerf.

Well, eclypse was reworked several times... not for real tho.

tinythinker

Joy_Division wrote: »

II have no idea how anyone who is active on these forums thinks that ZoS is going to make significant changes with regards to class balance. II just SMH at all those people who slam F5 on patch day, waiting to get on the first page and express their surprise and disappointment that there aren't any class balance changes.

Have people been paying attention? There has not been a patch that was dedicated to looking and reforming fundamental class issues for years. At most they'll be maybe a patch once a year that will tweak/rework like two skills, but that's it. And everything else is some sort of change that called an adjustment, when most of the time it is a nerf of some sort

The devs seem content with the basic layout and fundamental working of the classes and their skills and their passives. So they devote their resources elsewhere. Go back through years of patch notes and try and find any that actually have fundamental reexamination and reform of how the classes work. You're going to have to go back a long time. Most of them are just like this one: we get one meaningful change (Healing Ritual to finally lost its cast time), but that's pretty much it aside from a tweak here and there (burning light, standardization of enduring rays) and the obligatory breath of life nerf.

Agreed. I actually know where you can find suggestions of this kind from a thread that where in some fashion added to Templars. (And one for a gear set. And a couple other things.) It was when they changed the one morph of the cleansing circle to do damage.

Anyway, to follow up on your point: The same goes for any other recommendations or suggestions for the game. It's a venting or creative exercise. It's chatting with friends. *If* some part of an player idea gets added to the game, great, but you have to have it in your head that most of what players talk about on the forums or reddit aren't going into the game. Don't expect it. Don't get worked up over it. Put it out there and let it go. Then decide whether you want to play the game as the devs are publishing it or not, not based on the "potential" the game has "if only they would add/remove/alter X, Y, or Z."

tamrielwinner

New patch notes released. No changes to Breath of Life.

Animus-ESO

RIP brothers looks like abother 4 months of suffering

TheNightflame

maybe the devs just arent seeing these? @ZOS_GinaBruno or am i being too hopeful (i kinda know i am)

edit: she responded! hope is renewed. hopefully with the next dungeon dlc things'll be changed a bit.

Stibbons

Useless to give them any information from magic templars. No it is just polishing turd and releasing the patch. I am off from forums, nothing to see here.

Navras

I don't know if this is the proper post but I've done some deep dps testing on my magplar and I don't understand what's wrong.

The race is Breton (so not the best dps one but still...), gear is full gold 5 Julianos, 2 Groth, 5 MA with infused on Jewels. Destro staffs are both fire.

Those are my stats, front e backbar :


Here are a couple of parses:




Assuming I'm far to be a pro-player I do not understand why I'm parsing 10k to 15k lower than my Magblade in almost the same gear.

I might be absolutely bad on my rotation and uptimes (which could be absolutely possible) or there is something really wrong.

How's your dps guys and do you have any suggestions?

Elsterchen

@Navras ... I am far from beeing an expert for NBs (even less when looking at mag), but with my limited knowledge i would suggest that the difference is primarily due to better synergy of NB passives. Added crit chance and crit damage, instant cast abilities add up to damage spikes... race bonus just puts the cherry on top of that (imo).

... at least that's what i conclude when comparing my stamplar to my stamblade.

ZOS did alot right with NBs... I wish they would balance all classes with keeping one eye on what they did right here (not directly comparing ofc, but looking at the fundament layed out when aktive and passive abilities work together).

edit: ... and by the way absolute damage output on your magplar isn't bad, if you feel like it i send you parses from my stamplar.

Joy_Division

Navras wrote: »

I don't know if this is the proper post but I've done some deep dps testing on my magplar and I don't understand what's wrong.

The race is Breton (so not the best dps one but still...), gear is full gold 5 Julianos, 2 Groth, 5 MA with infused on Jewels. Destro staffs are both fire.

Those are my stats, front e backbar :


Here are a couple of parses:




Assuming I'm far to be a pro-player I do not understand why I'm parsing 10k to 15k lower than my Magblade in almost the same gear.

I might be absolutely bad on my rotation and uptimes (which could be absolutely possible) or there is something really wrong.

How's your dps guys and do you have any suggestions?

You're wearing Master Architect and using a 250 point ultimate is probably the biggest reason. Although even on an optimized templar, your parse is going to be lower than the NB