is AoE damage not concidered "direct damage"?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Item Sets
- Mechanical Acuity: This item set now only procs on direct damage instead of all damage.
GaunterODim wrote: »It can be direct damage, for example the nightblade aoe spammable sap essence or steel tornado are considered direct damage.
just as i thought. so nothing is in fact really changing then except the set doesn't proc of of DoTses anymore, right? uptime should still be high.Depends on the type of AoE damage. Direct damage is on hit instant damage. So anything that's not a DoT, basically.
GaunterODim wrote: »It can be direct damage, for example the nightblade aoe spammable sap essence or steel tornado are considered direct damage.just as i thought. so nothing is in fact really changing then except the set doesn't proc of of DoTses anymore, right? uptime should still be high.Depends on the type of AoE damage. Direct damage is on hit instant damage. So anything that's not a DoT, basically.
Not voting. Since I’m on onsole I really can’t know the impact yet, though it’s sad to see my Acuity gear probably become useless.
If Acuity becomes useless I would definitely like to have this nerf reverted. It was nice having a choice of Juli or Acuity instead of only Juli.
Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.
as far as i can tell PvE builds in general have very few DoTs, usually just one (if you're not counting lightning staff heavy attacks). so as long as the 2-3 AoEs are running, maybe even a Monster proc, and the spam'n'weave is going the uptime shouldn't be affected too much actually.DoTs were the primary source of proccing it. Every PVE build will have several DoTs running at all times, whereas they generally only have their weaves and spammables as a source of direct damage now.
A lot of specs also had this set as a frontbar only set, and when it would be off cooldown and you swapped to the front bar it would instantly proc from DoTs. Now it might not proc at all during an entire frontbar rotation, as it is just 15% proc chance on the weaves and spammables in those builds. This will plummet uptime significantly.
Even having the set on body as only 5 piece set, uptimes will still decrease. It won't instantly proc from DoTs anymore right after the cooldown expired. Over longer fights the activation times will shift quite a bit and pull down uptimes, and it might also proc it at undesirable times.
as far as i can tell PvE builds in general have very few DoTs, usually just one (if you're not counting lightning staff heavy attacks). so as long as the 2-3 AoEs are running, maybe even a Monster proc, and the spam'n'weave is going the uptime shouldn't be affected too much actually.DoTs were the primary source of proccing it. Every PVE build will have several DoTs running at all times, whereas they generally only have their weaves and spammables as a source of direct damage now.
A lot of specs also had this set as a frontbar only set, and when it would be off cooldown and you swapped to the front bar it would instantly proc from DoTs. Now it might not proc at all during an entire frontbar rotation, as it is just 15% proc chance on the weaves and spammables in those builds. This will plummet uptime significantly.
Even having the set on body as only 5 piece set, uptimes will still decrease. It won't instantly proc from DoTs anymore right after the cooldown expired. Over longer fights the activation times will shift quite a bit and pull down uptimes, and it might also proc it at undesirable times.
erah... for the most part those aren't DoTs. and i said "usually just one" taking into concideration that there are in fact builds with 2 or more DoTs. saying "usually just one" is still a valid assessment as it seems to me that there is more mag DDs than stam DDs out there (deducing that from looking at the builds showing up for trials).lol....
every magicka build uses elemental blockade + atleast 2 class-dots --> 3 dots minimum
every stambuild uses atleast caltrops, endless hail, rearming trap and rending slashes --> 4 dots minimum
erah... for the most part those aren't DoTs. and i said "usually just one" taking into concideration that there are in fact builds with 2 or more DoTs. saying "usually just one" is still a valid assessment as it seems to me that there is more mag DDs than stam DDs out there (deducing that from looking at the builds showing up for trials).lol....
every magicka build uses elemental blockade + atleast 2 class-dots --> 3 dots minimum
every stambuild uses atleast caltrops, endless hail, rearming trap and rending slashes --> 4 dots minimum
You have no idea, which skills are considered DoTs in ESO.
A DoT: Everything which does multiple damage ticks over a set period of time
direct damage: Everything which does one damage-tick upon activation
skills can be both, most have a direct damage component (usually the first damage tick) and a dot after this first tick. Sorting them by AoE or singletarget has nothing to do with dot/direct damage.
You have no idea, which skills are considered DoTs in ESO.
A DoT: Everything which does multiple damage ticks over a set period of time
direct damage: Everything which does one damage-tick upon activation
skills can be both, most have a direct damage component (usually the first damage tick) and a dot after this first tick. Sorting them by AoE or singletarget has nothing to do with dot/direct damage.
well, actually i do and sorting them by AoE or single target (though there are DoTs that are multi target like Reflective Light and Soul Splitting Trap) has everything to do with whether it's a DoT or direct damage.
AoE can not (by nature) be a DoT because then the "effect" couldn't wear off when you leave the AoE. if it were a DoT the damage of this AoE would still affect you after leaving it, which it doesn't and also mustn't. and if you read up on and look at how damage is shown ingame you'll notice that AoE is never shown as orange, and therefor DoT, but white, and therefor direct damage.
and then there is the other distinction - DoT damage is indicated in the tooltips as X damage over Y seconds while AoE damage is indicated as X damage every Z seconds, sometimes along with over Y seconds, but the time is already predetermined by the overall length of the abilites anyways.
of course both damage types tick, but it's not actually the same mechanic.
You have no idea, which skills are considered DoTs in ESO.
A DoT: Everything which does multiple damage ticks over a set period of time
direct damage: Everything which does one damage-tick upon activation
skills can be both, most have a direct damage component (usually the first damage tick) and a dot after this first tick. Sorting them by AoE or singletarget has nothing to do with dot/direct damage.
well, actually i do and sorting them by AoE or single target (though there are DoTs that are multi target like Reflective Light and Soul Splitting Trap) has everything to do with whether it's a DoT or direct damage.
AoE can not (by nature) be a DoT because then the "effect" couldn't wear off when you leave the AoE. if it were a DoT the damage of this AoE would still affect you after leaving it, which it doesn't and also mustn't. and if you read up on and look at how damage is shown ingame you'll notice that AoE is never shown as orange, and therefor DoT, but white, and therefor direct damage.
and then there is the other distinction - DoT damage is indicated in the tooltips as X damage over Y seconds while AoE damage is indicated as X damage every Z seconds, sometimes along with over Y seconds, but the time is already predetermined by the overall length of the abilites anyways.
of course both damage types tick, but it's not actually the same mechanic.
You have no idea how the game works.
The color of the damage has nothing to do with any of this. Orange damage indicates a single target DoT on the target, but that doesn't mean white damage cannot be a DoT.
Things like wall of elements, liquid lightning, twisting path, caltrops, endless hail and so on, will all show white damage numbers, and yet they are AOE DoTs. They scale with Thaumaturge CP, and they do not proc any set that requires direct damage.
orange indicates a DoT and a DoT is a DoT, there is no different kinds of DoTs and it does mean white damage can not be a DoT. you just don't understand how damage works, it's as simple as that.You have no idea how the game works.
The color of the damage has nothing to do with any of this. Orange damage indicates a single target DoT on the target, but that doesn't mean white damage cannot be a DoT.
Things like wall of elements, liquid lightning, twisting path, caltrops, endless hail and so on, will all show white damage numbers, and yet they are AOE DoTs. They scale with Thaumaturge CP, and they do not proc any set that requires direct damage.
laugh all you want, you are the fool here.^This and nothing else....
how can you have learned it, i just dispoved you. i also explained in detail why AoE can only be direct damage. and that there is no different color for "direct damage" is because there is only direct damage and damage over time, so plain damage is direct damage.
but Dymence was right about the set not proccing from AoE anymore, so my guess is ZOS actually wants it to be single target direct damage.
PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »It was well-deserved.
Edit: Do you know how tiresome it's gotten to hear "Do you run MA? No? GTFO, scrub. Meta only!" whenever you get into a Trials group?
Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.
Yeah, @Jerkling , Nerien'eth and Skoria don't lie, because regardless of what the tooltips or /help may tell you, they're obligated to follow the actual engine's interpretation of the damage type.how can you have learned it, i just dispoved you. i also explained in detail why AoE can only be direct damage. and that there is no different color for "direct damage" is because there is only direct damage and damage over time, so plain damage is direct damage.
but Dymence was right about the set not proccing from AoE anymore, so my guess is ZOS actually wants it to be single target direct damage.
Dude, just go to a target dummy and test out all these "AOE abilities" that you claim cannot be a DoT, and then move around points in Thaumaturge and you will see damage increases.
While you're at it, test sets that proc on DoTs like Skoria.
Educate yourself in the actual game mechanics, rather than taking this "combat text" as law.
Take it from players who have played this game since launch. And stop embarassing yourself any further, it hurts my eyes.
i don't need to, i see the damage increase on AoE when i put points in Master-at-Arms and not when putting points in Thaumaturge. the combat text tells me the same, so i don't need you to tell me what the game is showing me is wrong because you say so.Dude, just go to a target dummy and test out all these "AOE abilities" that you claim cannot be a DoT, and then move around points in Thaumaturge and you will see damage increases.
While you're at it, test sets that proc on DoTs like Skoria.
Educate yourself in the actual game mechanics, rather than taking this "combat text" as law.
Take it from players who have played this game since launch. And stop embarassing yourself any further, it hurts my eyes.
Champion Points, the Tooltips and /help don't lie, because regardless of what Nerien'eth and Skoria may tell you they are obligated to follow the actual engines interpretation of the damage type.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Yeah, @Jerkling , Nerien'eth and Skoria don't lie, because regardless of what the tooltips or /help may tell you, they're obligated to follow the actual engine's interpretation of the damage type.
i'm also playing this game since launch, that doesn mean i know everything and am always right and it sure as hell doesn't mean you do and/or are.
i disproved you with 3 examles and gave a sound explanation why AoE is direct damage. all you have done so far is saying the above, like you are some kind of expert and i'm too stupid to count to potato despite the fact that i can actually show it's direct damage.Yeah, you're making it very clear that you don't know anything.
ya, i have disproven you. period. and what ways would that be? AoEs don't scale with Thaumaturge, i tested it. the only thing that's been said that is valid is that AoEs proc DoT sets. which is why is saidI don't know how you can be so stubborn honestly, when you have multiple people with tons of experience in the game telling you you are wrong and even showing you ways you can see it for yourself.
and to what does your overwhelming experience actually translate too? did you do any extensive testing on the matter? did you write any papers about it? what does you experience actually come done to other than that you have experience, whatever that means?i can settle on the following though, AoEs deal direct damage but proc like DoTs as being a source of ongoing damage not unlike DoTs.
yes, i do get a damage increase with Master-at-Arms, i tested it on Elemental Blockade and Twisting Path.And you are not getting damage increase on AOE DoTs with master at arms. The only thing that would explain this, is if you tested it with intial hit burst damage abilities such as impulse from destruction staves, or steel tornado from dual wield.
well, you should just use your brain for once and think about why it can't. it's really easy to understand actually. i also already explained why.I really don't know why the concept is so hard for your brain to grasp. Damage over time. Why do you think it matters if it is spread over an area or sticking to an individual target? Why would damage over time in a certain radius, say 8 meters, thus being AREA OF EFFECT, be so utterly impossible?
no, they don't. i tested it and they simply don't.Everything I listed previously "wall of elements, liquid lightning, twisting path, caltrops, endless hail and so on" scale with thaumaturge, and proc sets that have DoT conditions written in their tooltips. As I have said previously, you can test it yourself, simply by trying this out.
i'm not blindly arguing, the game treats AoE as direct damage and this explanation underlines the why perfectly. maybe you should just get of your high horse and test it yourself, because i did test it and it proves what i'm saying. you haven't shown anything except your selfproclaimed expertness based only in how long you are playing the game.Instead of blindly arguing your "special" reasoning, maybe hop into the game and test some things out? You might just learn something.
that's strange, because it took me just 10 secs on the live server to prove you wrong. and since i know AoE is scaling with Master-at-Arms and shows as direct damage i say you're either lying and you didn't actually test it or you're lying about the result because either way you just want to be right.It took me like 10 secs time on PTS to prove me right and @jerkling wrong....can't find the problem....
but anyway...guess it's time to get some popcorn
i disproved you with 3 examles and gave a sound explanation why AoE is direct damage. all you have done so far is saying the above, like you are some kind of expert and i'm too stupid to count to potato despite the fact that i can actually show it's direct damage.Yeah, you're making it very clear that you don't know anything.
what i see is some wannabe big shot acting like he knows s*** even when he is proven wrong.ya, i have disproven you. period. and what ways would that be? AoEs don't scale with Thaumaturge, i tested it. the only thing that's been said that is valid is that AoEs proc DoT sets. which is why is saidI don't know how you can be so stubborn honestly, when you have multiple people with tons of experience in the game telling you you are wrong and even showing you ways you can see it for yourself.and to what does your overwhelming experience actually translate too? did you do any extensive testing on the matter? did you write any papers about it? what does you experience actually come done to other than that you have experience, whatever that means?i can settle on the following though, AoEs deal direct damage but proc like DoTs as being a source of ongoing damage not unlike DoTs.yes, i do get a damage increase with Master-at-Arms, i tested it on Elemental Blockade and Twisting Path.And you are not getting damage increase on AOE DoTs with master at arms. The only thing that would explain this, is if you tested it with intial hit burst damage abilities such as impulse from destruction staves, or steel tornado from dual wield.well, you should just use your brain for once and think about why it can't. it's really easy to understand actually. i also already explained why.I really don't know why the concept is so hard for your brain to grasp. Damage over time. Why do you think it matters if it is spread over an area or sticking to an individual target? Why would damage over time in a certain radius, say 8 meters, thus being AREA OF EFFECT, be so utterly impossible?
you are the one who is clearly incapable of comprehending the distinct difference between Damage over Time and recurring Area of Effect direct damage.no, they don't. i tested it and they simply don't.Everything I listed previously "wall of elements, liquid lightning, twisting path, caltrops, endless hail and so on" scale with thaumaturge, and proc sets that have DoT conditions written in their tooltips. As I have said previously, you can test it yourself, simply by trying this out.i'm not blindly arguing, the game treats AoE as direct damage and this explanation underlines the why perfectly. maybe you should just get of your high horse and test it yourself, because i did test it and it proves what i'm saying. you haven't shown anything except your selfproclaimed expertness based only in how long you are playing the game.Instead of blindly arguing your "special" reasoning, maybe hop into the game and test some things out? You might just learn something.that's strange, because it took me just 10 secs on the live server to prove you wrong. and since i know AoE is scaling with Master-at-Arms and shows as direct damage i say you're either lying and you didn't actually test it or you're lying about the result because either way you just want to be right.It took me like 10 secs time on PTS to prove me right and @jerkling wrong....can't find the problem....
but anyway...guess it's time to get some popcorn
all you two have is 1 argument, that AoE procs DoT sets, and it's not even a good basis for your overall argument. but it's obviously pointless to argue with you, you are not going to settle on anything other than you beeing right and me not knowing what i'm talking about.
But I'm not in one. I just hunt zone chat like my name is Teddy Roosevelt.JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »It was well-deserved.
Edit: Do you know how tiresome it's gotten to hear "Do you run MA? No? GTFO, scrub. Meta only!" whenever you get into a Trials group?
Sounds like you just need to find a better trials guild.