Should the Mechanical Acuity Nerf be reverted?

Dymence

No

Jerkling wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Item Sets

• Mechanical Acuity: This item set now only procs on direct damage instead of all damage.

is AoE damage not concidered "direct damage"?

Depends on the type of AoE damage. Direct damage is on hit instant damage. So anything that's not a DoT, basically.

Itzmichi

No

The set was broken. Let's Adress it as it was. It was pretty much meta on stamina and magicka, so I guess everybody was expecting a nerf, right?

There are a few more options with the jewelery crafting, so let's check them out first before we cry for an undo again:)

Jerkling

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

GaunterODim wrote: »

It can be direct damage, for example the nightblade aoe spammable sap essence or steel tornado are considered direct damage.

Dymence wrote: »

Depends on the type of AoE damage. Direct damage is on hit instant damage. So anything that's not a DoT, basically.

just as i thought. so nothing is in fact really changing then except the set doesn't proc of of DoTses anymore, right? uptime should still be high.

Dymence

No

Jerkling wrote: »

GaunterODim wrote: »

It can be direct damage, for example the nightblade aoe spammable sap essence or steel tornado are considered direct damage.

Dymence wrote: »

Depends on the type of AoE damage. Direct damage is on hit instant damage. So anything that's not a DoT, basically.

just as i thought. so nothing is in fact really changing then except the set doesn't proc of of DoTses anymore, right? uptime should still be high.

DoTs were the primary source of proccing it. Every PVE build will have several DoTs running at all times, whereas they generally only have their weaves and spammables as a source of direct damage now.

A lot of specs also had this set as a frontbar only set, and when it would be off cooldown and you swapped to the front bar it would instantly proc from DoTs. Now it might not proc at all during an entire frontbar rotation, as it is just 15% proc chance on the weaves and spammables in those builds. This will plummet uptime significantly.

Even having the set on body as only 5 piece set, uptimes will still decrease. It won't instantly proc from DoTs anymore right after the cooldown expired. Over longer fights the activation times will shift quite a bit and pull down uptimes, and it might also proc it at undesirable times.

xaraan

No

No, but I think they should bump the proc chance up a bit now. Not a lot, maybe 5 or 10%

ccfeeling

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

I believe ZOS won't revert MA nerfing , they never respect correct player voices .
So I spent 2 hours to test other sets with skelly in the weekend .

I found that there are few more common sets got better result than MA . ( Cannot provide names but which could be bought in the market , nerf protection )

ZOS go ahead , nerf everything you want but I feel so upset you guys never do homework before nerf and just listen some crying babies feedback .

* I want to get back all my gold materials

Supernatural

Mechanical Acuity definetely needed to be toned down a bit, but honestly I think that they overdid it. I do not see why would you choose it over Advancing Yokeda or Mother's Sorrow now. You cannot really control the proc anymore. You just do as much direct damage as possible, and then pray to the RNG gods that it will proc.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

Vaoh wrote: »

Not voting. Since I’m on onsole I really can’t know the impact yet, though it’s sad to see my Acuity gear probably become useless.

If Acuity becomes useless I would definitely like to have this nerf reverted. It was nice having a choice of Juli or Acuity instead of only Juli.

Not really sure why you felt the need to comment here then.

But, for the record, since I'm on console too, I also have PC just for PTS and can tell you for a fact that Acuity will definitely be trash now for most builds because getting it to proc consistently/properly/when desired is a pain-in-the-a**.

From my experience on the PTS, it is definitely harder to control the Acuity procc with this new, uncalled for, unwarranted, unwanted last minute nerf by the tards at Zos, probably in some lame attempt to make the lackluster Summerset sets look more appealing.

Jerkling

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

Dymence wrote: »

DoTs were the primary source of proccing it. Every PVE build will have several DoTs running at all times, whereas they generally only have their weaves and spammables as a source of direct damage now.

A lot of specs also had this set as a frontbar only set, and when it would be off cooldown and you swapped to the front bar it would instantly proc from DoTs. Now it might not proc at all during an entire frontbar rotation, as it is just 15% proc chance on the weaves and spammables in those builds. This will plummet uptime significantly.

Even having the set on body as only 5 piece set, uptimes will still decrease. It won't instantly proc from DoTs anymore right after the cooldown expired. Over longer fights the activation times will shift quite a bit and pull down uptimes, and it might also proc it at undesirable times.

as far as i can tell PvE builds in general have very few DoTs, usually just one (if you're not counting lightning staff heavy attacks). so as long as the 2-3 AoEs are running, maybe even a Monster proc, and the spam'n'weave is going the uptime shouldn't be affected too much actually.

Aebaradath

No

It was well-deserved.

Edit: Do you know how tiresome it's gotten to hear "Do you run MA? No? GTFO, scrub. Meta only!" whenever you get into a Trials group?

Destruent

Jerkling wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

DoTs were the primary source of proccing it. Every PVE build will have several DoTs running at all times, whereas they generally only have their weaves and spammables as a source of direct damage now.

A lot of specs also had this set as a frontbar only set, and when it would be off cooldown and you swapped to the front bar it would instantly proc from DoTs. Now it might not proc at all during an entire frontbar rotation, as it is just 15% proc chance on the weaves and spammables in those builds. This will plummet uptime significantly.

Even having the set on body as only 5 piece set, uptimes will still decrease. It won't instantly proc from DoTs anymore right after the cooldown expired. Over longer fights the activation times will shift quite a bit and pull down uptimes, and it might also proc it at undesirable times.

as far as i can tell PvE builds in general have very few DoTs, usually just one (if you're not counting lightning staff heavy attacks). so as long as the 2-3 AoEs are running, maybe even a Monster proc, and the spam'n'weave is going the uptime shouldn't be affected too much actually.

lol....
every magicka build uses elemental blockade + atleast 2 class-dots --> 3 dots minimum
every stambuild uses atleast caltrops, endless hail, rearming trap and rending slashes --> 4 dots minimum

James-Wayne

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

It already had a fairly low up time, now its even lower... I don't mind a nerf but saying direct damage kills my Magplar instantly, would have loved a proc on magic damage instead

Jerkling

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

Destruent wrote: »

lol....
every magicka build uses elemental blockade + atleast 2 class-dots --> 3 dots minimum
every stambuild uses atleast caltrops, endless hail, rearming trap and rending slashes --> 4 dots minimum

erah... for the most part those aren't DoTs. and i said "usually just one" taking into concideration that there are in fact builds with 2 or more DoTs. saying "usually just one" is still a valid assessment as it seems to me that there is more mag DDs than stam DDs out there (deducing that from looking at the builds showing up for trials).

Destruent

Jerkling wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

lol....
every magicka build uses elemental blockade + atleast 2 class-dots --> 3 dots minimum
every stambuild uses atleast caltrops, endless hail, rearming trap and rending slashes --> 4 dots minimum

erah... for the most part those aren't DoTs. and i said "usually just one" taking into concideration that there are in fact builds with 2 or more DoTs. saying "usually just one" is still a valid assessment as it seems to me that there is more mag DDs than stam DDs out there (deducing that from looking at the builds showing up for trials).

You have no idea, which skills are considered DoTs in ESO.

A DoT: Everything which does multiple damage ticks over a set period of time
direct damage: Everything which does one damage-tick upon activation

skills can be both, most have a direct damage component (usually the first damage tick) and a dot after this first tick. Sorting them by AoE or singletarget has nothing to do with dot/direct damage.

visionality

No

Literally everybody who was going for end game content was using this set on DDs. I'm happy if we're going back to a bit more meta-variety.

Jerkling

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

Destruent wrote: »

You have no idea, which skills are considered DoTs in ESO.

A DoT: Everything which does multiple damage ticks over a set period of time
direct damage: Everything which does one damage-tick upon activation

skills can be both, most have a direct damage component (usually the first damage tick) and a dot after this first tick. Sorting them by AoE or singletarget has nothing to do with dot/direct damage.

well, actually i do and sorting them by AoE or single target (though there are DoTs that are multi target like Reflective Light and Soul Splitting Trap) has everything to do with whether it's a DoT or direct damage.

AoE can not (by nature) be a DoT because then the "effect" couldn't wear off when you leave the AoE. if it were a DoT the damage of this AoE would still affect you after leaving it, which it doesn't and also mustn't. and if you read up on and look at how damage is shown ingame you'll notice that AoE is never shown as orange, and therefor DoT, but white, and therefor direct damage.
and then there is the other distinction - DoT damage is indicated in the tooltips as X damage over Y seconds while AoE damage is indicated as X damage every Z seconds, sometimes along with over Y seconds, but the time is already predetermined by the overall length of the abilites anyways.
of course both damage types tick, but it's not actually the same mechanic.

Dymence

No

Jerkling wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

You have no idea, which skills are considered DoTs in ESO.

A DoT: Everything which does multiple damage ticks over a set period of time
direct damage: Everything which does one damage-tick upon activation

skills can be both, most have a direct damage component (usually the first damage tick) and a dot after this first tick. Sorting them by AoE or singletarget has nothing to do with dot/direct damage.

well, actually i do and sorting them by AoE or single target (though there are DoTs that are multi target like Reflective Light and Soul Splitting Trap) has everything to do with whether it's a DoT or direct damage.

AoE can not (by nature) be a DoT because then the "effect" couldn't wear off when you leave the AoE. if it were a DoT the damage of this AoE would still affect you after leaving it, which it doesn't and also mustn't. and if you read up on and look at how damage is shown ingame you'll notice that AoE is never shown as orange, and therefor DoT, but white, and therefor direct damage.
and then there is the other distinction - DoT damage is indicated in the tooltips as X damage over Y seconds while AoE damage is indicated as X damage every Z seconds, sometimes along with over Y seconds, but the time is already predetermined by the overall length of the abilites anyways.
of course both damage types tick, but it's not actually the same mechanic.

You have no idea how the game works.

The color of the damage has nothing to do with any of this. Orange damage indicates a single target DoT on the target, but that doesn't mean white damage cannot be a DoT.

Things like wall of elements, liquid lightning, twisting path, caltrops, endless hail and so on, will all show white damage numbers, and yet they are AOE DoTs. They scale with Thaumaturge CP, and they do not proc any set that requires direct damage.

Destruent

Dymence wrote: »

Jerkling wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

You have no idea, which skills are considered DoTs in ESO.

A DoT: Everything which does multiple damage ticks over a set period of time
direct damage: Everything which does one damage-tick upon activation

skills can be both, most have a direct damage component (usually the first damage tick) and a dot after this first tick. Sorting them by AoE or singletarget has nothing to do with dot/direct damage.

well, actually i do and sorting them by AoE or single target (though there are DoTs that are multi target like Reflective Light and Soul Splitting Trap) has everything to do with whether it's a DoT or direct damage.

AoE can not (by nature) be a DoT because then the "effect" couldn't wear off when you leave the AoE. if it were a DoT the damage of this AoE would still affect you after leaving it, which it doesn't and also mustn't. and if you read up on and look at how damage is shown ingame you'll notice that AoE is never shown as orange, and therefor DoT, but white, and therefor direct damage.
and then there is the other distinction - DoT damage is indicated in the tooltips as X damage over Y seconds while AoE damage is indicated as X damage every Z seconds, sometimes along with over Y seconds, but the time is already predetermined by the overall length of the abilites anyways.
of course both damage types tick, but it's not actually the same mechanic.

You have no idea how the game works.

The color of the damage has nothing to do with any of this. Orange damage indicates a single target DoT on the target, but that doesn't mean white damage cannot be a DoT.

Things like wall of elements, liquid lightning, twisting path, caltrops, endless hail and so on, will all show white damage numbers, and yet they are AOE DoTs. They scale with Thaumaturge CP, and they do not proc any set that requires direct damage.

^This and nothing else....

Jerkling

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

Dymence wrote: »

You have no idea how the game works.

The color of the damage has nothing to do with any of this. Orange damage indicates a single target DoT on the target, but that doesn't mean white damage cannot be a DoT.

Things like wall of elements, liquid lightning, twisting path, caltrops, endless hail and so on, will all show white damage numbers, and yet they are AOE DoTs. They scale with Thaumaturge CP, and they do not proc any set that requires direct damage.

orange indicates a DoT and a DoT is a DoT, there is no different kinds of DoTs and it does mean white damage can not be a DoT. you just don't understand how damage works, it's as simple as that.



there is no such thing as AoE DoTs (the idea is rediculous!) and AoE abilites do not scale with Thaumaturge, they scale with Master-at-Arms, therefor it's direct damage. don't believe me? go and test it for yourself and feel foolish.

Destruent wrote: »

^This and nothing else....

laugh all you want, you are the fool here.

Destruent

lol @Jerkling ...I (and @Dymence aswell) learned those things years before ZOS implemented combat text. On a side note...there's not even a different color for direct damage, just for damage...so it can be anything.

Jerkling

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

how can you have learned it, i just dispoved you. i also explained in detail why AoE can only be direct damage. and that there is no different color for "direct damage" is because there is only direct damage and damage over time, so plain damage is direct damage.

but Dymence was right about the set not proccing from AoE anymore, so my guess is ZOS actually wants it to be single target direct damage.

Dymence

No

Jerkling wrote: »

how can you have learned it, i just dispoved you. i also explained in detail why AoE can only be direct damage. and that there is no different color for "direct damage" is because there is only direct damage and damage over time, so plain damage is direct damage.

but Dymence was right about the set not proccing from AoE anymore, so my guess is ZOS actually wants it to be single target direct damage.

Dude, just go to a target dummy and test out all these "AOE abilities" that you claim cannot be a DoT, and then move around points in Thaumaturge and you will see damage increases.

While you're at it, test sets that proc on DoTs like Skoria.

Educate yourself in the actual game mechanics, rather than taking this "combat text" as law.

Take it from players who have played this game since launch. And stop embarassing yourself any further, it hurts my eyes.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

It was well-deserved.

Edit: Do you know how tiresome it's gotten to hear "Do you run MA? No? GTFO, scrub. Meta only!" whenever you get into a Trials group?

Sounds like you just need to find a better trials guild.

Merlin13KAGL

Dymence wrote: »

Jerkling wrote: »

how can you have learned it, i just dispoved you. i also explained in detail why AoE can only be direct damage. and that there is no different color for "direct damage" is because there is only direct damage and damage over time, so plain damage is direct damage.

but Dymence was right about the set not proccing from AoE anymore, so my guess is ZOS actually wants it to be single target direct damage.

Dude, just go to a target dummy and test out all these "AOE abilities" that you claim cannot be a DoT, and then move around points in Thaumaturge and you will see damage increases.

While you're at it, test sets that proc on DoTs like Skoria.

Educate yourself in the actual game mechanics, rather than taking this "combat text" as law.

Take it from players who have played this game since launch. And stop embarassing yourself any further, it hurts my eyes.

Yeah, @Jerkling , Nerien'eth and Skoria don't lie, because regardless of what the tooltips or /help may tell you, they're obligated to follow the actual engine's interpretation of the damage type.

Jerkling

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

Dymence wrote: »

Dude, just go to a target dummy and test out all these "AOE abilities" that you claim cannot be a DoT, and then move around points in Thaumaturge and you will see damage increases.

While you're at it, test sets that proc on DoTs like Skoria.

Educate yourself in the actual game mechanics, rather than taking this "combat text" as law.

Take it from players who have played this game since launch. And stop embarassing yourself any further, it hurts my eyes.

i don't need to, i see the damage increase on AoE when i put points in Master-at-Arms and not when putting points in Thaumaturge. the combat text tells me the same, so i don't need you to tell me what the game is showing me is wrong because you say so.
i also gave you a rational and sound argument why AoEs are not DoTs, why they can't be, you're just too stubborn and ignorant to acknowledge that because then you'd look like a condescending p****.
i'm also playing this game since launch, that doesn mean i know everything and am always right and it sure as hell doesn't mean you do and/or are.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Yeah, @Jerkling , Nerien'eth and Skoria don't lie, because regardless of what the tooltips or /help may tell you, they're obligated to follow the actual engine's interpretation of the damage type.

Champion Points, the Tooltips and /help don't lie, because regardless of what Nerien'eth and Skoria may tell you they are obligated to follow the actual engines interpretation of the damage type.
nice how you can just swing this argument in any direction, huh?

i can settle on the following though, AoEs deal direct damage but proc like DoTs as being a source of ongoing damage not unlike DoTs.

Dymence

No

Jerkling wrote: »

i'm also playing this game since launch, that doesn mean i know everything and am always right and it sure as hell doesn't mean you do and/or are.

Yeah, you're making it very clear that you don't know anything.

I don't know how you can be so stubborn honestly, when you have multiple people with tons of experience in the game telling you you are wrong and even showing you ways you can see it for yourself.

And you are not getting damage increase on AOE DoTs with master at arms. The only thing that would explain this, is if you tested it with intial hit burst damage abilities such as impulse from destruction staves, or steel tornado from dual wield.

I really don't know why the concept is so hard for your brain to grasp. Damage over time. Why do you think it matters if it is spread over an area or sticking to an individual target? Why would damage over time in a certain radius, say 8 meters, thus being AREA OF EFFECT, be so utterly impossible?

Everything I listed previously "wall of elements, liquid lightning, twisting path, caltrops, endless hail and so on" scale with thaumaturge, and proc sets that have DoT conditions written in their tooltips. As I have said previously, you can test it yourself, simply by trying this out.

Instead of blindly arguing your "special" reasoning, maybe hop into the game and test some things out? You might just learn something.

Destruent

It took me like 10 secs time on PTS to prove me right and @jerkling wrong....can't find the problem....

but anyway...guess it's time to get some popcorn

Jerkling

Yes, Fix Mechanical Acuity

Dymence wrote: »

Yeah, you're making it very clear that you don't know anything.

i disproved you with 3 examles and gave a sound explanation why AoE is direct damage. all you have done so far is saying the above, like you are some kind of expert and i'm too stupid to count to potato despite the fact that i can actually show it's direct damage.

what i see is some wannabe big shot acting like he knows s*** even when he is proven wrong.

Dymence wrote: »

I don't know how you can be so stubborn honestly, when you have multiple people with tons of experience in the game telling you you are wrong and even showing you ways you can see it for yourself.

ya, i have disproven you. period. and what ways would that be? AoEs don't scale with Thaumaturge, i tested it. the only thing that's been said that is valid is that AoEs proc DoT sets. which is why is said

Jerkling wrote: »

i can settle on the following though, AoEs deal direct damage but proc like DoTs as being a source of ongoing damage not unlike DoTs.

and to what does your overwhelming experience actually translate too? did you do any extensive testing on the matter? did you write any papers about it? what does you experience actually come done to other than that you have experience, whatever that means?

Dymence wrote: »

And you are not getting damage increase on AOE DoTs with master at arms. The only thing that would explain this, is if you tested it with intial hit burst damage abilities such as impulse from destruction staves, or steel tornado from dual wield.

yes, i do get a damage increase with Master-at-Arms, i tested it on Elemental Blockade and Twisting Path.

Dymence wrote: »

I really don't know why the concept is so hard for your brain to grasp. Damage over time. Why do you think it matters if it is spread over an area or sticking to an individual target? Why would damage over time in a certain radius, say 8 meters, thus being AREA OF EFFECT, be so utterly impossible?

well, you should just use your brain for once and think about why it can't. it's really easy to understand actually. i also already explained why.
you are the one who is clearly incapable of comprehending the distinct difference between Damage over Time and recurring Area of Effect direct damage.

Dymence wrote: »

Everything I listed previously "wall of elements, liquid lightning, twisting path, caltrops, endless hail and so on" scale with thaumaturge, and proc sets that have DoT conditions written in their tooltips. As I have said previously, you can test it yourself, simply by trying this out.

no, they don't. i tested it and they simply don't.

Dymence wrote: »

Instead of blindly arguing your "special" reasoning, maybe hop into the game and test some things out? You might just learn something.

i'm not blindly arguing, the game treats AoE as direct damage and this explanation underlines the why perfectly. maybe you should just get of your high horse and test it yourself, because i did test it and it proves what i'm saying. you haven't shown anything except your selfproclaimed expertness based only in how long you are playing the game.

Destruent wrote: »

It took me like 10 secs time on PTS to prove me right and @jerkling wrong....can't find the problem....

but anyway...guess it's time to get some popcorn

that's strange, because it took me just 10 secs on the live server to prove you wrong. and since i know AoE is scaling with Master-at-Arms and shows as direct damage i say you're either lying and you didn't actually test it or you're lying about the result because either way you just want to be right.



all you two have is 1 argument, that AoE procs DoT sets, and it's not even a good basis for your overall argument. but it's obviously pointless to argue with you, you are not going to settle on anything other than you beeing right and me not knowing what i'm talking about.

Dymence

No

Jerkling wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Yeah, you're making it very clear that you don't know anything.

i disproved you with 3 examles and gave a sound explanation why AoE is direct damage. all you have done so far is saying the above, like you are some kind of expert and i'm too stupid to count to potato despite the fact that i can actually show it's direct damage.

what i see is some wannabe big shot acting like he knows s*** even when he is proven wrong.

Dymence wrote: »

I don't know how you can be so stubborn honestly, when you have multiple people with tons of experience in the game telling you you are wrong and even showing you ways you can see it for yourself.

ya, i have disproven you. period. and what ways would that be? AoEs don't scale with Thaumaturge, i tested it. the only thing that's been said that is valid is that AoEs proc DoT sets. which is why is said

Jerkling wrote: »

i can settle on the following though, AoEs deal direct damage but proc like DoTs as being a source of ongoing damage not unlike DoTs.

and to what does your overwhelming experience actually translate too? did you do any extensive testing on the matter? did you write any papers about it? what does you experience actually come done to other than that you have experience, whatever that means?

Dymence wrote: »

And you are not getting damage increase on AOE DoTs with master at arms. The only thing that would explain this, is if you tested it with intial hit burst damage abilities such as impulse from destruction staves, or steel tornado from dual wield.

yes, i do get a damage increase with Master-at-Arms, i tested it on Elemental Blockade and Twisting Path.

Dymence wrote: »

I really don't know why the concept is so hard for your brain to grasp. Damage over time. Why do you think it matters if it is spread over an area or sticking to an individual target? Why would damage over time in a certain radius, say 8 meters, thus being AREA OF EFFECT, be so utterly impossible?

well, you should just use your brain for once and think about why it can't. it's really easy to understand actually. i also already explained why.
you are the one who is clearly incapable of comprehending the distinct difference between Damage over Time and recurring Area of Effect direct damage.

Dymence wrote: »

Everything I listed previously "wall of elements, liquid lightning, twisting path, caltrops, endless hail and so on" scale with thaumaturge, and proc sets that have DoT conditions written in their tooltips. As I have said previously, you can test it yourself, simply by trying this out.

no, they don't. i tested it and they simply don't.

Dymence wrote: »

Instead of blindly arguing your "special" reasoning, maybe hop into the game and test some things out? You might just learn something.

i'm not blindly arguing, the game treats AoE as direct damage and this explanation underlines the why perfectly. maybe you should just get of your high horse and test it yourself, because i did test it and it proves what i'm saying. you haven't shown anything except your selfproclaimed expertness based only in how long you are playing the game.

Destruent wrote: »

It took me like 10 secs time on PTS to prove me right and @jerkling wrong....can't find the problem....

but anyway...guess it's time to get some popcorn

that's strange, because it took me just 10 secs on the live server to prove you wrong. and since i know AoE is scaling with Master-at-Arms and shows as direct damage i say you're either lying and you didn't actually test it or you're lying about the result because either way you just want to be right.



all you two have is 1 argument, that AoE procs DoT sets, and it's not even a good basis for your overall argument. but it's obviously pointless to argue with you, you are not going to settle on anything other than you beeing right and me not knowing what i'm talking about.

Enjoy living in your ignorance.

Aebaradath

No

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

It was well-deserved.

Edit: Do you know how tiresome it's gotten to hear "Do you run MA? No? GTFO, scrub. Meta only!" whenever you get into a Trials group?

Sounds like you just need to find a better trials guild.

But I'm not in one. I just hunt zone chat like my name is Teddy Roosevelt.