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Why does ZOS hate Sorcs?
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cozmon3c_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Teargrants wrote: »
...To themselves after fluffy-flap reflects it w/ 30% bonus dmg.FluffiestOne wrote: »Sorcs are one of the best classes. I've seen some amazing sorcs doing aoe and single target.
My apologies, he did advocate for the BE nerfed, but from a sorc since launch...trust me...DK don't want that...its a resource management nightmare even for LA and it would make med and heavy DK pretty much I able to use it.
As a BE sorc, the tri-pot addiction you have now? Double it, and remember sorcs also have to run dark conversion to trade stamina for magic with tripots to be viable...DK without dark conversion and the BE Nerf to scales...that would cripple them making them much easier to kill as they would be unable to keep scales as well as spamming talons and whip, nor heal. It would make resto staff a requirement just for the mana return and would pigeonhole them much like sorcs are now.
I'm not for nerfs honestly, they would be better off returning BE how it was, leave scales as is, and work on buffing other classes and skills or adding more skills into the game as counters.
Buffs are always better then nerfs
BE is a nightmare for non magicka users too. dont see why dk's cant recieve the same punishment for a skill that is not even nessesary for them to survive like bolt escape. we dont have Green Dragons Blood, or ults that act as tri pots. i would love to se GDB and RS get the BE treatment then i would say we are more on equal footing.
Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
Youtube Channel - Leper
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos3 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭At the end of the day no class should have that much mobility in a RvR type game when noone can match it. It's just bad implementation from the start by Zeni.
If you want the nerf reversed... I'd be for it if they took off the stun.NijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.3 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭i see a lot of mentioning of "just shield stack" are people not aware that shield stacking is going bye bye in 1.6? I.e. Major and minor buffs...0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
So much is going to change in 1.6 that any kind of discussion about this or that being under- or overpowered is just a bit useless at the moment.i see a lot of mentioning of "just shield stack" are people not aware that shield stacking is going bye bye in 1.6? I.e. Major and minor buffs...3 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
...To themselves after fluffy-flap reflects it w/ 30% bonus dmg.FluffiestOne wrote: »Sorcs are one of the best classes. I've seen some amazing sorcs doing aoe and single target.My apologies, he did advocate for the BE nerfed, but from a sorc since launch...trust me...DK don't want that...its a resource management nightmare even for LA and it would make med and heavy DK pretty much I able to use it.
As a BE sorc, the tri-pot addiction you have now? Double it, and remember sorcs also have to run dark conversion to trade stamina for magic with tripots to be viable...DK without dark conversion and the BE Nerf to scales...that would cripple them making them much easier to kill as they would be unable to keep scales as well as spamming talons and whip, nor heal. It would make resto staff a requirement just for the mana return and would pigeonhole them much like sorcs are now.
I'm not for nerfs honestly, they would be better off returning BE how it was, leave scales as is, and work on buffing other classes and skills or adding more skills into the game as counters.
Buffs are always better then nerfs
BE is a nightmare for non magicka users too. dont see why dk's cant recieve the same punishment for a skill that is not even nessesary for them to survive like bolt escape. we dont have Green Dragons Blood, or ults that act as tri pots. i would love to se GDB and RS get the BE treatment then i would say we are more on equal footing.
GDB sorta already has the same treatment as BE, It becomes more inefficient the more you use it. Either way you can't compare the two in that way in using to survive, simply because Bolt Escape allows you to escape the fight completely, If I get in a fight on DK i'm pretty much stuck there even if I get adds.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos3 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »GDB sorta already has the same treatment as BE, It becomes more inefficient the more you use it. Either way you can't compare the two in that way in using to survive, simply because Bolt Escape allows you to escape the fight completely, If I get in a fight on DK i'm pretty much stuck there even if I get adds.
Of course you can compare them. They are both survivability skills that can be spammed. Sorcs rely on mobility and DKs on battlefield resource regen. If sorcs had a combat class heal, this would be different.
This is the best explanation I have heard as to why people get more angry when a sorc at 5% health spams bolt and escapes then they are when a DK at 5% health spams dragon blood, pops a banner, gets almost all his resources back and then kills them.
From hereBecause its ok if the cookie looks tasty but is filled with nails rather then have the cookie running away from you.
Thats basically it. You won´t eat the cookie either way but the feeling is different. Sorcs getting away ppl feel cheated out of their "earned" victory over a class with no incombat heal. They lack the understanding that teleporting away is basically the same as a dk popping gdb and standard of might to go full health and resources again (and them *** them).
Best. Explanation. Ever.2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »GDB sorta already has the same treatment as BE, It becomes more inefficient the more you use it. Either way you can't compare the two in that way in using to survive, simply because Bolt Escape allows you to escape the fight completely, If I get in a fight on DK i'm pretty much stuck there even if I get adds.
Of course you can compare them. They are both survivability skills that can be spammed. Sorcs rely on mobility and DKs on battlefield resource regen. If sorcs had a combat class heal, this would be different.
This is the best explanation I have heard as to why people get more angry when a sorc at 5% health spams bolt and escapes then they are when a DK at 5% health spams dragon blood, pops a banner, gets almost all his resources back and then kills them.
From hereBecause its ok if the cookie looks tasty but is filled with nails rather then have the cookie running away from you.
Thats basically it. You won´t eat the cookie either way but the feeling is different. Sorcs getting away ppl feel cheated out of their "earned" victory over a class with no incombat heal. They lack the understanding that teleporting away is basically the same as a dk popping gdb and standard of might to go full health and resources again (and them *** them).
Best. Explanation. Ever.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Its completely irrational but totally true.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Man people who complain about Bolt Escape are ridiculous.
NB Dark Cloak beats it by a mile, especially post nerf.
There was a Trio of NBs harassing like 20 people outside of Sejanus today in PvP. First they'd jump out of stealth with a burst combo and then when the zerg went at them they'd just pop Dark Cloak and disappear. Rinse/repeat for like 20 mins.
A Sorc couldn't do that with BE.
You want to talk about powerful escapes.... (notice I didn't say over-powered, because I think it is good for classes to have fun and interesting abilities.)2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »GDB sorta already has the same treatment as BE, It becomes more inefficient the more you use it. Either way you can't compare the two in that way in using to survive, simply because Bolt Escape allows you to escape the fight completely, If I get in a fight on DK i'm pretty much stuck there even if I get adds.
Of course you can compare them. They are both survivability skills that can be spammed. Sorcs rely on mobility and DKs on battlefield resource regen. If sorcs had a combat class heal, this would be different.
This is the best explanation I have heard as to why people get more angry when a sorc at 5% health spams bolt and escapes then they are when a DK at 5% health spams dragon blood, pops a banner, gets almost all his resources back and then kills them.
From hereBecause its ok if the cookie looks tasty but is filled with nails rather then have the cookie running away from you.
Thats basically it. You won´t eat the cookie either way but the feeling is different. Sorcs getting away ppl feel cheated out of their "earned" victory over a class with no incombat heal. They lack the understanding that teleporting away is basically the same as a dk popping gdb and standard of might to go full health and resources again (and them *** them).
Best. Explanation. Ever.
Only you can get a combat heal as a sorc in the form of restro staff. There is nothing you can get that comes close to bolt escape in terms of escaping fights.
The two aren't comparable of survivabilty, you will live far longer then a dk simply by escaping....I know this because I have a bloody nightblade and I can escape and live far easier on that class then I ever could on my dk.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have recently leveled a Sorc to VR1 and it's the first time I have seriously tried to play one (i.e. going past level 10-11). I am a little late to the party on these debates, but I have a couple of questions:
1. Does anything in Update 6 make the problems articulated here regarding Sorc survivability/sustain/damage significantly better or worse?
2. If Sorcs want an escape and a way to reposition on the battlefield that doesn't require 7 light/loads of magicka pots to be halfway effective, has any suggestion been made to make Bolt Escape cheaper to use while Sorcs are in combat and then hit them with a cooldown when they leave combat?
In other words, if I am streaking around to stun enemies, absorb attacks, or reposition so I can get a shard or curse off, I would not have the huge costs for subsequent recasts (there could still be an increase in cost for rapid reuse but not the huge current penalty). If I decide to use Bolt to flee, when I left combat (the game mechanic with the little notification) I would have the existing magicka regen penalty and also a cool-down on using Bolt for X seconds, so that I would be less able to defend myself or continue fleeing.
There would be more strategy to use of/countering Bolt Escape and both Sorcs and their opponents could get more of what they want. If a Sorc really wants to use BE to fight, then that option become more viable in PvP. If a Sorc wants to flee, they can still get away but catching them is still easier to do.
I will toss out some numbers to flesh out the idea but they are not fixed just a way to get a feel for the concept...
Tooltip at Launch:
Teleports player and stuns nearby enemies for [1.5 / 1.65 / 1.8 / 2.0] seconds.
Tooltip as of patch 1.1.4:
Teleports player forward and stuns enemies for [1.5 / 1.65 / 1.8 / 2.0] seconds. Out of combat Magicka recovery is halved for 4.0 seconds. After casting, the next Bolt Escape cast within 4.0 seconds costs 50% more.
Tooltip as of Patch 1.6.4:
Transform yourself into pure energy and flash forward, stunning enemies near origin location for 2.0 seconds.
Casting again within 4.0 seconds costs 50% more Magicka.
Tooltip proposed, version 1:
Transform yourself into pure energy and flash forward, stunning enemies near your point of origin for [1.5/1.65/1.8/2.0] seconds.
Casting again within 4.0 seconds costs 25% more Magicka. Leaving combat within 8 seconds of casting this ability results in a 50% reduction of Magicka recovery and an inability to use this spell again for 8.0 seconds.
Tooltip proposed, version 2:
Transform yourself into pure energy and flash forward, stunning enemies near your point of origin for [1.5/1.65/1.8/2.0] seconds.
Casting again within 4.0 seconds costs 25% more Magicka. Leaving combat within 8 seconds of casting this ability results in an inability to use this spell again for 15.0 seconds.Edited by tinythinker on March 2, 2015 1:58PM❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teargrants wrote: »Bolt escape was never faster than a max horse. The only reason it offered faster travel at launch was because no one had maxed out the feeding for their speed horses yet.
Sorcs were escaping combat with it because no one understood you could just string crit charges/teleport strikes/invasions.
this BE needs its porting range increased from 15 to atleast 22m. to be even remotly able to stay out of range of charge spammers that are needing 1/5th of the resources a sorc has to use.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Teargrants wrote: »Bolt escape was never faster than a max horse. The only reason it offered faster travel at launch was because no one had maxed out the feeding for their speed horses yet.
Sorcs were escaping combat with it because no one understood you could just string crit charges/teleport strikes/invasions.
this BE needs its porting range increased from 15 to atleast 22m. to be even remotly able to stay out of range of charge spammers that are needing 1/5th of the resources a sorc has to use.
Yup, you get it. Bolt Escape was never an ability that didn't have a counter. However, it is a problem folks can spam charges at 1/5th the cost of a BE.
I have always said gap closers have too much range...however, I am not one for nerfs. instead give Be a 22m port range, and now we have balance...considering our second cast is 50% more and charge spammers have no such cost increase, that makes it fair.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak4 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teargrants wrote: »Bolt escape was never faster than a max horse. The only reason it offered faster travel at launch was because no one had maxed out the feeding for their speed horses yet.
Sorcs were escaping combat with it because no one understood you could just string crit charges/teleport strikes/invasions.
this BE needs its porting range increased from 15 to atleast 22m. to be even remotly able to stay out of range of charge spammers that are needing 1/5th of the resources a sorc has to use.
Yup, you get it. Bolt Escape was never an ability that didn't have a counter. However, it is a problem folks can spam charges at 1/5th the cost of a BE.
I have always said gap closers have too much range...however, I am not one for nerfs. instead give Be a 22m port range, and now we have balance...considering our second cast is 50% more and charge spammers have no such cost increase, that makes it fair.
alternativly change the cc component from a 1sec stun into a 4sec root.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Bolt escape was never faster than a max horse. The only reason it offered faster travel at launch was because no one had maxed out the feeding for their speed horses yet.
Sorcs were escaping combat with it because no one understood you could just string crit charges/teleport strikes/invasions.
this BE needs its porting range increased from 15 to atleast 22m. to be even remotly able to stay out of range of charge spammers that are needing 1/5th of the resources a sorc has to use.
Yup, you get it. Bolt Escape was never an ability that didn't have a counter. However, it is a problem folks can spam charges at 1/5th the cost of a BE.
I have always said gap closers have too much range...however, I am not one for nerfs. instead give Be a 22m port range, and now we have balance...considering our second cast is 50% more and charge spammers have no such cost increase, that makes it fair.
I hope some day ZoS gives the same "fair" treatment to all gapclosers as the one that Bolt Escape had.
Lets see what they think after when their 5th defensive cast will cost 10k stam or magica1 -
ZOS_MikaadminSince this thread is rather old we have decided to close it down. Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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