Why does ZOS hate Sorcs?

RinaldoGandolphi

NordJitsu wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Its not the Bomb Group Sorc that needs a buff lol, its the single target damage sorc.

I ran primarily a single target sorc build. The keyword being "ran". As of yesterday my sorc is shelved permantly until ZOS fixes it.

The way they went about nerfing sharpened hurt sorcs bad. The fact in pve I have 140+ spell damage, but soon as I enter cyrodiol my spell damage gets nerfed down to 129-130 which prior I don't believe it scaled that low.

Point is unless you don't want stuff reflected in your face, your forced to use curse and mages wrath and very careful placement of shards, but you simply can't do enough damage to kill anyone who half way knows what they are doing. Weapon damage skills hit way harder then any of the sorc class based skills.

If your way better then your opponent sure you can win, but if skill level is around equal you gotta play out of your freakin head to win against any other class. This is why you see so many streak fleeing sorcs, our damage freakin sucks all around.

My bow temp alt I'm working on, he does way more damage then my sorc, its magnitudes more.

7 out of 10 players are DK the prevalence of scales and defensive posture means crushing shock is a death sentence, the fact they nerfed spell damage awhile back and crushing shock will soon be based off will make it more pointless.

The fact they refuse to fix the block casting nonsense and have forced me to actually use it...nah.. I'm leaving pvp for awhile and will take my good time leveling my temp alt.

Its not only sorcs, there are a lot of broken mechanics in this game they refuse to fix such as the shield charge talon perma stun, yet they continue to add new stuff without fixing the problems with the base game.

Its just may very well lead me to pulling my card off my account in the not so distant future, and 20 of my guilies are on the brink of following suit. Their refusal to fix the issues with the base game just may very well cost them big time.

In the same boat. Medium armor stamina bow/2hand builds trump any thing a magicka build can do right now.

I'm leveling my Ranger Templar and more or less giving up on a magicka sorc.

Agreed, I'm doing the same. Bow templar.

Sad really, but sorcs are just too weak right now.

Yusuf

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

ZOS hates NBs not sorcs.

I see sorcs BEing away from battle all the time; spamming BE. If anything, ZOS didn't nerf it enough.

A Nightblade that can't catch a sorc is doing something wrong, i speak from experience as i play both

NordJitsu

Yusuf wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

ZOS hates NBs not sorcs.

I see sorcs BEing away from battle all the time; spamming BE. If anything, ZOS didn't nerf it enough.

A Nightblade that can't catch a sorc is doing something wrong, i speak from experience as i play both

Maybe he's just not built for speed?

All you need is a bow and refreshing path to catch a Sorc.

Teargrants

FluffiestOne wrote: »

Sorcs are one of the best classes. I've seen some amazing sorcs doing aoe and single target.

...To themselves after fluffy-flap reflects it w/ 30% bonus dmg.

Xiphyla

Derra wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

JaJaLuka wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Is this thread a troll? Sorc is beast in pvp

Xiphyla wrote: »

I lol-ed pretty hard when people say sorc are underpowered. I'm sure this thread is a troll.

Please play one, go 1 on 1 with some other players, THEN come back and say that.

Dude , i play my friend sorc a/c before. Sorc in 1v1 or group are still as powerful as it is. I not sure if you wanna troll or trying to be funny.

Well i hope you meet a good opponent one day ._.

I already met some good sorc o.o . Not sure if you are trying to trolling.

naturn

I leveled a NB up to 46 a couple months ago and hadn't done much with it till last night when I decided to give my v14 sorc a rest. As much as I really liked my sorc and my pvp skill with it is not bad, playing the NB is so much better in pvp. Better survival and damage (level difference considered). It just gives me more options and better play. Sorcs need to get some better balance and it is pretty frustrating to be mainly valued for one ultimate. I am confident ZOS will eventually give sorcs more pvp and survival value, but I am going to spend more time exploring other classes till they do.

thelordoffelines

Xiphyla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

JaJaLuka wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Is this thread a troll? Sorc is beast in pvp

Xiphyla wrote: »

I lol-ed pretty hard when people say sorc are underpowered. I'm sure this thread is a troll.

Please play one, go 1 on 1 with some other players, THEN come back and say that.

Dude , i play my friend sorc a/c before. Sorc in 1v1 or group are still as powerful as it is. I not sure if you wanna troll or trying to be funny.

Well i hope you meet a good opponent one day ._.

I already met some good sorc o.o . Not sure if you are trying to trolling.

Not sure if ur trolling if u don't know sorc classes are largely underpowered. If u lost to a sorc u were significantly outplayed and he had significantly more skill than u.

Xiphyla

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

JaJaLuka wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Is this thread a troll? Sorc is beast in pvp

Xiphyla wrote: »

I lol-ed pretty hard when people say sorc are underpowered. I'm sure this thread is a troll.

Please play one, go 1 on 1 with some other players, THEN come back and say that.

Dude , i play my friend sorc a/c before. Sorc in 1v1 or group are still as powerful as it is. I not sure if you wanna troll or trying to be funny.

Well i hope you meet a good opponent one day ._.

I already met some good sorc o.o . Not sure if you are trying to trolling.

Not sure if ur trolling if u don't know sorc classes are largely underpowered. If u lost to a sorc u were significantly outplayed and he had significantly more skill than u.

I'm sure you need to l2p.

RinaldoGandolphi

Xiphyla wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

JaJaLuka wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Is this thread a troll? Sorc is beast in pvp

Xiphyla wrote: »

I lol-ed pretty hard when people say sorc are underpowered. I'm sure this thread is a troll.

Please play one, go 1 on 1 with some other players, THEN come back and say that.

Dude , i play my friend sorc a/c before. Sorc in 1v1 or group are still as powerful as it is. I not sure if you wanna troll or trying to be funny.

Well i hope you meet a good opponent one day ._.

I already met some good sorc o.o . Not sure if you are trying to trolling.

Not sure if ur trolling if u don't know sorc classes are largely underpowered. If u lost to a sorc u were significantly outplayed and he had significantly more skill than u.

I'm sure you need to l2p.

Its not an l2p issue. I assure you. Sorcs are the only class that gets punished for using a skill. That mana regen penalty hurts. If you understood if you understood marginal returns you would know the higher your mana regen is, the more it costs hence the more your punished.

I'm on my phone and don't have time, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. No other class is saddled with such penalties and has as many weaknesses a sorc does considering we have more class skills that are useless in pvp then any other class, we also don't have any instant cast direct damage skills, no damage over time class skills, dark exchange costs a ton of stamina leaves you wide open to be killed, crit surge is useless in pvp due to impenetrable so were forced to use a resto staff no matter what.

We don't have the flexibility other classes have because we are pigeon holed, enve shield sorcs have to use a resto staff or they wouldn't be viable.

ToRelax

Aldul wrote: »

[*] negates win fights and kill whole raids, esp. when your'e with a bombgroup (most powerful ulti in the game! no cap..)

Negate Magic has an AoE cap of 6. Only the negating of ground based AoE effects is uncapped (as well as the magicka/health regen from it with Absorption field against very dumb opponents). Wich is indeed what makes it valuable in "bomb groups" of course.

NordJitsu

ToRelax wrote: »

Aldul wrote: »

[*] negates win fights and kill whole raids, esp. when your'e with a bombgroup (most powerful ulti in the game! no cap..)

Negate Magic has an AoE cap of 6. Only the negating of ground based AoE effects is uncapped (as well as the magicka/health regen from it with Absorption field against very dumb opponents). Wich is indeed what makes it valuable in "bomb groups" of course.

It should be uncapped though. It was at launch.

I'm hoping with the changes to damage AoE this will be uncapped again.

ToRelax

Question about surge on last ESO Live, 02:11:55

Needed some time to find it in the video.

The current Power Surge morph, wich increases the buff's duration, will be changed into a spell damage buff (just like staffs normal attacks and skills will scale out of spell damage in 1.6).
Critical Surge will stay as it is.

While I'll probably like the spell damage morph more than previous Power Surge with the new system, overall Sorc gets another nerf with this part of the update, as you can not get the heal from Critical Surge while increasing your magicka based Sorc's damage. I don't have anything against stamina Sorcs. But punishing a Sorcerer for playing his class as a caster, like one would expect, with the choice between a heal that can be great (still very unreliable in PvP) and a damage buff is just not to justify on an underpowered class! We have to choose between our previous unreliable heal and good damage buff. Why!?
I would really like to see some devs PvPing with a sorc now... tell me again you are content with their class skills after that.

/Edit: wrote out what's being said in the video about surge, typos

prototypefb

BE was nerfed so damn sorcs actually had to use their horses, not infinetly bolt around map faster than top racehorse.
it's still a viable escape option but prevents infinitely exploiting skill for speed gathering/ not using horses/ escaping 100% of battles.
Skill now gives opponent a chance to catch up

Teargrants

Bolt escape was never faster than a max horse. The only reason it offered faster travel at launch was because no one had maxed out the feeding for their speed horses yet.

Sorcs were escaping combat with it because no one understood you could just string crit charges/teleport strikes/invasions.

Xsorus

no, we under stood, we just know that once the sorc got out of line of sight for even a second, either behind a tree or what not he was gone.

NordJitsu

Teargrants wrote: »

Bolt escape was never faster than a max horse. The only reason it offered faster travel at launch was because no one had maxed out the feeding for their speed horses yet.

Sorcs were escaping combat with it because no one understood you could just string crit charges/teleport strikes/invasions.

It was the ultimate l2p scenario.

Gap closers, cc, speed buffs, snipe, ect all act as counters. Funny thing is, people eventually figured it out. ZOS could have waited like a month for meta development and the QQ would have stopped.

Sorcs should be able to get away from a fight. It's the design of the skill and the class (because the lack survivability they get mobility.)

RinaldoGandolphi

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

no, we under stood, we just know that once the sorc got out of line of sight for even a second, either behind a tree or what not he was gone.

Not always, and isn't that using terrain to an advantage?

Your acting like BE was the only thing that allowed you to run. I have seen folks use invis is potions to just disappear, their losing the fight, poof they are gone. Its a valid tactic with increased sneak speed, you don't hear us complaining about it. Its a valid tactics just like BE.

Also BE is not just for running, I use BOL for positioning and protect to fight at range. Just a little bit ago I saw an archer being ganked by 5 people, I attacked, they came after me, I used BOL twice, and proceeded to wipe them with power overload behind the protection of my orbs.

Not every sorc just runs you know, watch some ezareths videos, running is actually the least useful use of BE, good sorcs use it to change position to use LOS etc to fight their opponents

Xsorus

woodsro wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

no, we under stood, we just know that once the sorc got out of line of sight for even a second, either behind a tree or what not he was gone.

Not always, and isn't that using terrain to an advantage?

Your acting like BE was the only thing that allowed you to run. I have seen folks use invis is potions to just disappear, their losing the fight, poof they are gone. Its a valid tactic with increased sneak speed, you don't hear us complaining about it. Its a valid tactics just like BE.

Also BE is not just for running, I use BOL for positioning and protect to fight at range. Just a little bit ago I saw an archer being ganked by 5 people, I attacked, they came after me, I used BOL twice, and proceeded to wipe them with power overload behind the protection of my orbs.

Not every sorc just runs you know, watch some ezareths videos, running is actually the least useful use of BE, good sorcs use it to change position to use LOS etc to fight their opponents

Because a single dot on you removes Stealth Pots from working, the only class who gets use out of stealth pots is Nightblades, mainly because they can Dark Cloak before hand and then pop the pot...Even then, you can use stealth detection pots to see them from a mile away.

There was no counter to BE before the nerf.....You either had other Sorcs to chase them, or You were on your mount before they ported..in which case, you could catch up with them, get off your mount cause you're in combat...then hope you kill them in the 2 seconds before they ported again.

Right now you can use BE to get some distance or to get behind a LOS object, you can still use it to escape...You just can't port 30 times then come back and unload on someone right away...

Sorry, the BE nerf needs to stay.

RinaldoGandolphi

BE was counterable then as it is now. Numerous people in this thread have even posted how. I even posted a video showing multiple ways to counter it.

Yes invis pots van be countered too, just like BE can even before the Nerf.

Your missing a big point, Sorcs have no way to heal, all other classes do. Dark exchange is a stamina trade channel that can't be used during combat, crit surge is based on an RNG that with impentrable simply wont work.

RinaldoGandolphi

I think BE does get changed again at some point, I see penalty on mana regen being removed and the base cost being slightly increased. It makes sense because its doubtful they revamp many of our skills creating even more problems. That would be adjusting the nerf to be in line with what Scales is getting.

As it stands now, sorcs are the weakest class in the game right now, stamina builds are way stronger right now, and in terms of being a pure caster sorc was meant for that more then other classes even though sorcs are not limited to being casters mind you.

Xsorus

woodsro wrote: »

BE was counterable then as it is now. Numerous people in this thread have even posted how. I even posted a video showing multiple ways to counter it.

Yes invis pots van be countered too, just like BE can even before the Nerf.

Your missing a big point, Sorcs have no way to heal, all other classes do. Dark exchange is a stamina trade channel that can't be used during combat, crit surge is based on an RNG that with impentrable simply wont work.

That awful video you posted was downright moronic and was made by a baddie who wanted to keep his BE perfectly safe.

Also every class in this game has a way to heal, including Sorcs, its called running Healing Ward and using your own Shielding to give yourself a massive shield.

Hell I can do it on my Nightblade using bloody Bastion armor and Healing Ward...

Nijjion

woodsro wrote: »

I even posted a video showing multiple ways to counter it.

Have to admit that's a really bad video. First off almost all the 'counters' examples in this video the sorc gets away multiple times so... It's more of how to knock down a player once then watch the sorc bolt away.

The sorc also plays pretty stupid in some situations... It's like creating a how to counter DKs scales and then the DK doesn't use Scales.

k2blader

@OP, this is the first of your posts I completely agree with. :-D

The maneuverability of a sorc is his strength, but right now it's just mediocre, not very strong at all. Any one who thinks streaking here & there to irritate the enemy and distract for the rest of the group (which does the heavy work), or draining full magicka to escape a mindless zerg because you don't feel like dying to it is somehow so powerful, is probably not playing a sorc main. Or he is some group's negate monkey.

I also agree the "nerf" to scales is laughable and nowhere near on par with the nerf to BE. All it means is a DK won't be able to as easily tank the 10+ folks who know it'll require that many to take him down. Change scales to consume one's resource like BE does for a sorc--that's when the non-FotM DKs will care.

Merlight

k2blader wrote: »

I also agree the "nerf" to scales is laughable and nowhere near on par with the nerf to BE. All it means is a DK won't be able to as easily tank the 10+ folks who know it'll require that many to take him down. Change scales to consume one's resource like BE does for a sorc--that's when the non-FotM DKs will care.

Funny that Sypher suggested the exact same thing in one of his videos, and he plays DK.

RinaldoGandolphi

Merlight wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

I also agree the "nerf" to scales is laughable and nowhere near on par with the nerf to BE. All it means is a DK won't be able to as easily tank the 10+ folks who know it'll require that many to take him down. Change scales to consume one's resource like BE does for a sorc--that's when the non-FotM DKs will care.

Funny that Sypher suggested the exact same thing in one of his videos, and he plays DK.

Of course he would, he don't want the BE penalty because he would be stuck in the same state we are in right now.

BE is integral to the sorc, look at our skills the whole class is based around it, since all our class skills require time. Scales gets a reflect limit that trust me changes nothing, most DK recast scales before it has reflected more then 4

So DK can spam it without penalty, but sorcs get miffed for using BE, yup totally fair, we can't even heal without a resto staff.

Healing ward is expensive and a 6 second wait, you gotta have enough magic to cast it and another shield for it to have a chance of lasting long enough to heal you.

GDB is cheap in comparison and reliable considering a nearby friendly can take your healing ward. For this reason healing ward isn't even reliable, I don't know how many times it decides to put the bubble on a nearby pug, no healing for me.

Xsorus

woodsro wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

I also agree the "nerf" to scales is laughable and nowhere near on par with the nerf to BE. All it means is a DK won't be able to as easily tank the 10+ folks who know it'll require that many to take him down. Change scales to consume one's resource like BE does for a sorc--that's when the non-FotM DKs will care.

Funny that Sypher suggested the exact same thing in one of his videos, and he plays DK.

Of course he would, he don't want the BE penalty because he would be stuck in the same state we are in right now.

BE is integral to the sorc, look at our skills the whole class is based around it, since all our class skills require time. Scales gets a reflect limit that trust me changes nothing, most DK recast scales before it has reflected more then 4

So DK can spam it without penalty, but sorcs get miffed for using BE, yup totally fair, we can't even heal without a resto staff.

Healing ward is expensive and a 6 second wait, you gotta have enough magic to cast it and another shield for it to have a chance of lasting long enough to heal you.

GDB is cheap in comparison and reliable considering a nearby friendly can take your healing ward. For this reason healing ward isn't even reliable, I don't know how many times it decides to put the bubble on a nearby pug, no healing for me.

Ummmm...maybe I read that wrong...but I believe Sypher suggested something similar to the BE penalty...

NordJitsu

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

BE was counterable then as it is now. Numerous people in this thread have even posted how. I even posted a video showing multiple ways to counter it.

Yes invis pots van be countered too, just like BE can even before the Nerf.

Your missing a big point, Sorcs have no way to heal, all other classes do. Dark exchange is a stamina trade channel that can't be used during combat, crit surge is based on an RNG that with impentrable simply wont work.

That awful video you posted was downright moronic and was made by a baddie who wanted to keep his BE perfectly safe.

Also every class in this game has a way to heal, including Sorcs, its called running Healing Ward and using your own Shielding to give yourself a massive shield.

Hell I can do it on my Nightblade using bloody Bastion armor and Healing Ward...

How about this one?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HfoNKUloPjU

That guy was one of the lead QQing bads who would rather complain on the forums than learn how to play the game (which is true of every person who complained about BE) and yet he posted a pre-nerf video in which he was easily able to counter the skill using only invasion.

A sniper wouldn't even have to chase a streaker. He could easily finish him of from range.

The skill is and was counterable. But the nerf made it so any idiot can stop BE, rather than requiring the tiny modicum of skill that was required before (literally just aiming and pressing a single button with the right timing.)

Merlight

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ummmm...maybe I read that wrong...but I believe Sypher suggested something similar to the BE penalty...

Yes, he did. Here's the video for reference.

RinaldoGandolphi

My apologies, he did advocate for the BE nerfed, but from a sorc since launch...trust me...DK don't want that...its a resource management nightmare even for LA and it would make med and heavy DK pretty much I able to use it.

As a BE sorc, the tri-pot addiction you have now? Double it, and remember sorcs also have to run dark conversion to trade stamina for magic with tripots to be viable...DK without dark conversion and the BE Nerf to scales...that would cripple them making them much easier to kill as they would be unable to keep scales as well as spamming talons and whip, nor heal. It would make resto staff a requirement just for the mana return and would pigeonhole them much like sorcs are now.

I'm not for nerfs honestly, they would be better off returning BE how it was, leave scales as is, and work on buffing other classes and skills or adding more skills into the game as counters.

Buffs are always better then nerfs

Jaerlach

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xiphyla wrote: »

JaJaLuka wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Is this thread a troll? Sorc is beast in pvp

Xiphyla wrote: »

I lol-ed pretty hard when people say sorc are underpowered. I'm sure this thread is a troll.

Please play one, go 1 on 1 with some other players, THEN come back and say that.

Dude , i play my friend sorc a/c before. Sorc in 1v1 or group are still as powerful as it is. I not sure if you wanna troll or trying to be funny.

Well i hope you meet a good opponent one day ._.

I already met some good sorc o.o . Not sure if you are trying to trolling.

Not sure if ur trolling if u don't know sorc classes are largely underpowered. If u lost to a sorc u were significantly outplayed and he had significantly more skill than u.

I'm really confused here as we know @FluffiestOne‌ is the Lord of felines.