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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
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• NA megaservers for maintenance – October 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
Jumping "Dodge" should consume stamina
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fierackas✭✭✭✭✭If it's once in a while surely it wouldn't be that onerous. I think people probably have more of an issue with the demented combat bunnies.3 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It is interesting that several people have stated that jumping confers little to no benefit and yet they seem to be vehemently against it costing stamina. Why would they care?
It has benefits. It provides LOS towards enemies hiding behind other enemies. This is useful if you are 1vXing or otherwise fighting a zerg and want to hit back line healers and soft targets. It can help you keep momentum. It can help you get over small obsticles that otherwise stop your character. It provides some people with a rythm for their rotation... and some people just like jumping because it is an engrained behavior from other games. It also seems to bother people so it works well as a PvP taunt... just follow the hopping bunny sorc away from your zerg little zergling... nothing bad will happen
What it doesn't do is cause you to dodge attacks.
If people want it to cost stamina there should be a good reason for that. Not liking the way it looks or arguing for realism in a video game are just not good reasons.
If they could provide proof that jumping causes attacks to miss, that would become a valid reason.PC/EU DC3 -
jaschacasadiob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Because 1) it’s a habit for me and 2) it’s not about dodging stuff but relaxing my fingers. Jumping once in a while stretches my fingers and is thus much more comfortable. Why should I have a disadvantage just because some people think it ruins their immershun?
I think the problem here is not jumping from time to time, but rather those that do it all the time, like if they were rabbits.
Which is not even a problem of immersion. Immersion RIP back in April 2014. It just feels dumb.
But then again, if you check the character name and dress of those rabbits, the dots start connecting, you see the correlation and the answers are served.
"Yesterday while searching a barrel in vVoM I found a lemon. Best drop of the whole run."
Protect the weak. Heal the sick.
Treasure the gifts of friendship. Seek joy and inspiration in the mysteries of love.
Honor the Earth, its creatures, and the spirits. Use Nature's gifts wisely. Respect her power. Fear her fury.0 -
fierackas✭✭✭✭✭I guess I have an irrational dislike of hopping toons because I remember people doing it irl laser quest to avoid hits. I felt like clubbing them over the head with the gun instead0
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xxthir13enxx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sooo....when exactly IS the bunny polymorph costume coming to the Crown store? I’ve been waiting and waiting...0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭White wabbit wrote: »Jumping in real life takes energy so I think it should cost stamina
So does walking. So does standing.
So to regen, we will have to lay down on the ground.2 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »Jumping in real life takes energy so I think it should cost stamina
So does walking. So does standing.
So to regen, we will have to lay down on the ground.
To regen you have to get 8hrs of sleep and eat a balanced breakfast. Make sure you drink plenty of water too.PC/EU DC3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Because of if you are sprinting and out of stamina who is pretty standard for magic builds you can not jump.It is interesting that several people have stated that jumping confers little to no benefit and yet they seem to be vehemently against it costing stamina. Why would they care?
That would be super annoying. Not only in PvP but overland and in dungeons to, vault of madness is the most obvious one with lots of running an jumping.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.3 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I so regret investing any time in this thread after reading that jumping not costing stamina is "immersion breaking" for some people.
You know, for all of you people who care about immersion, there's this thing called real-life that has the best immersion around. Games are places where things don't have to make sense. Next you people are going to start calling for ZoS to implement bathrooms and regular bowel movements for our characters where we have to go sit in an outhouse for 5 minutes before continuing on with other content.
Edit: Why anyone would want our characters who are basically superheros to be confined by every-day restrictions that we face in our daily lives is mind-blowing to me. "Immersion" is usually code for anti-fun.Edited by Apache_Kid on May 11, 2018 2:42PM3 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »Jumping does not negate AoEs.
Jumping does not "dodge" attacks.
Provide visual proof that it does, and then your claims are valid. Not, "oh I saw it!"
Actual proof.
Is this a troll thread? It has to be. There's no way grown adults are bothered by jumping in a game that affects nothing but personal aim enough to have this discussion.
Everything inside of me just can't accept this is a real discussion. It's not about balance, or actual combat mechanics, or even lore...it's an aggressive stance against...jumping????
Edit:
Hey, this is same person that started a goodbye thread back in November. Welcome back! XD
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380474/game-over
Jumping negates AOE. Not sure about it will dodge attacks completely.
LOL. Jumping negates AOE on the floor. Just go to skyreach or VMA. When something on the floor like red AOEs just jump. It wont negates all AOEs. It do negates some. Also it quicken ground based snares while jumping like casting shields in middle of ground AOE , but not movement speed. If you dont know dont comment.
Jumping alone wont negates attacks , as far I know unless you jump of the cliffs.
You have the burden of proof. Show us a video of you doing this. If you don't have proof, "don't comment." Jumping does not "quicken" ground based snares while jumping, the debuff ticks at the same rate if you don't jump. We have tools on pc to measure this
Here's my video of testing it in duels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COLUuvvPuIw
And here's the aforementioned (BY YOU) Skyreach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnPmTUqkTu4
Notice how the debuff doesn't "quicken" when jumping? And the damage still happens? So unless you are referring to a very specific instance of jumping on AoE, then I don't see your argument. Even then, if it's such an isolated incident, why comment it as if it has any bearing ?
LOL . Good luck with your proof . Jumping does negates some ground AOEs and quicken snares. In your vidoe itself has the proof how quick shields casted. Jumping also does quicken few things while snared.
Again same words
" Dont comment, when there is no bearing " . Dont waste others time.
Dude. I animation cancel shields. Getting really obvious this is a troll thread.
To anyone else reading this thread, pay attention to the discussion and see that this is a very small part of the community. Don't take things at face value, take notice that none of the other players have posted any proof, and this troll is literally denying any other argument and just restating what they originally said with no new evidence, even in the face of videos showing what they say isn't true.
Noob? Watch other pro players when how they did VMA and timing of their jumps. Its in youtube where everyone uploading. You can completely avoid ground AOE by jumping before AOE making the initial contact even if you jump over it. You should not stand in middle of AOE jump and show that as proof.How noob it is ?
There is 2 scenrios jumping provides clear advantage as far confirmed.
1. Avoiding ground AOE especially in PVE vet dungoens. Timing has to perfect to avoid contact.
2. To get line of sight quickly to hit people in the back in PVP. Especially in group fights , when some one healing from the back.
There is a claim that it dodge direct attacks when jumping sideways. I left this to pro players to answer , because I am not completely sure about it.
I am completely against the argument ZOs issue. Jumping doesnt provide any overpowered advantage and ZOs doesn't need to fix anything. Jumping doesnt should costs stamina . Its simply moving sideways.
Again there are so many noobs in the game not willing to learn anything or never listen. Dont waste everyone time. L2P.Edited by Priyasekarssk on May 11, 2018 5:13PM0 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dragonnord wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »HaruyukiHana wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
So does drawing back a bow or swing around a giant sword or even just walking around in plate armor. Sometimes decisions need to be made on how it affects gameplay, not if it's realistic or not, especially in a fantasy game.
You are comparing things that do not affect gamplay:
1 - Moving your elbow back does nothing, however, if you release using a skill it c stamina
2 - Swinging a sword and hitting the air does nothing, however, if you swing it using a skill you spend stamina
3 - Using heavy armor, medium and light already have their advantages and disadvantages through pasives and so.
However, jumping DOES IMPACT game play, since you can dodge skills or ground AoE. So, if you are using jumping as if it was a physical skill, then it should consume stamina.
Imho at least.
We are all still waiting on video proof of jumping dodging AoE or any abilities for that matter.
Video showing that jumping does not do those things has already been provided.
Maybe you want to prove your assertion?
Sorry but I won't bother wasting time testing, recording, uploading, etc. when you guys can test it on your own.
I've seen it several times; Flawless Dawnbreaker missing jumping toons. If cheating or not, I can't tell, but I've seen it a lot of times.
In fact, guildies and friends I PvP with told me about that, so I paid attention to it and confirmed it myself too.
If you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you. You can't really prove a negative. I could show dozens of videos of it not happening, but that doesn't mean in never happens. If you guys could show us one video of it actually happening, that would be proof.
Dawnbreaker misses all the time, even on non jumping targets.
Prove it or stop making false claims.
Again, I'm not your employee or so to do stuff for you or anyone, and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone either.
If anyone that thinks or believe different would have to put a video as proof of whatever matter, the forums would be YouTube 2.0.
You don't want to believe me? Who cares dude?! Do your stuff, play the way you think things are, test, don't test, believe, don't believe... I simply don't care what you think. Period.
Weird you say that. You want jumping to cost stamina, so for that change to take effect, you’d want to show proof. But then you say you dont care and wont bother posting proof. Why did you even go to the forums in the first place? To whine?
So you may think you’re “cool” because you “dont care what others think,” but in truth you’re the losers because your argument fails without proof.
Because this is not a court-martial or so where proof needs to be presented. I came here and stated my opinion on what I think should happen (juming should cost stamina imho). If you don't like my opnion it's your fault, I should present NOTHING to you just because I understand things are different (regardless if I'm right or wrong).
Again, if every thread where people think/believe different should have a video, then every thread would have like 20 or 30 videos posted, because in all threads people opine differently.
But....and follow me on this...the proof gets rid of opinions and reveals the...wait for it...truth. Having differing opinions about pain being an illusion doesn't mean much when you're on fire and screaming in agony, does it?
Also, they weren't referring to your opinion of it costing stamina. They were referring to the refusal to show proof of jumping to avoid AoE, even though you were stating it as fact.
Unlike real life, this game was designed with blatant functions according to a program. So having an opinion about something the system doesn't actually do is the epitome of ignorance, and stating that opinion as fact causes misinformation to other players, which is reason enough to criticise and argue against.
But, let's just take your approach. It's their opinion that your opinion is bad, so it shouldn't bother you.
My God! Let's be clear:
Flawsless Dawnbreaker MISSES if you jump! I've seen it and tested it. It just MISSES if you jump.
You saw a video that proofs different? Then GOOD for you guys. Go play based on that video and I'll play based on my live experience.
End of story for me.
Flawless Dawnbreaker misses if you stand still too. So, you know... nothing proven.2 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dragonnord wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »HaruyukiHana wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
So does drawing back a bow or swing around a giant sword or even just walking around in plate armor. Sometimes decisions need to be made on how it affects gameplay, not if it's realistic or not, especially in a fantasy game.
You are comparing things that do not affect gamplay:
1 - Moving your elbow back does nothing, however, if you release using a skill it c stamina
2 - Swinging a sword and hitting the air does nothing, however, if you swing it using a skill you spend stamina
3 - Using heavy armor, medium and light already have their advantages and disadvantages through pasives and so.
However, jumping DOES IMPACT game play, since you can dodge skills or ground AoE. So, if you are using jumping as if it was a physical skill, then it should consume stamina.
Imho at least.
We are all still waiting on video proof of jumping dodging AoE or any abilities for that matter.
Video showing that jumping does not do those things has already been provided.
Maybe you want to prove your assertion?
Sorry but I won't bother wasting time testing, recording, uploading, etc. when you guys can test it on your own.
I've seen it several times; Flawless Dawnbreaker missing jumping toons. If cheating or not, I can't tell, but I've seen it a lot of times.
In fact, guildies and friends I PvP with told me about that, so I paid attention to it and confirmed it myself too.
If you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you. You can't really prove a negative. I could show dozens of videos of it not happening, but that doesn't mean in never happens. If you guys could show us one video of it actually happening, that would be proof.
Dawnbreaker misses all the time, even on non jumping targets.
Prove it or stop making false claims.
Again, I'm not your employee or so to do stuff for you or anyone, and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone either.
If anyone that thinks or believe different would have to put a video as proof of whatever matter, the forums would be YouTube 2.0.
You don't want to believe me? Who cares dude?! Do your stuff, play the way you think things are, test, don't test, believe, don't believe... I simply don't care what you think. Period.
Weird you say that. You want jumping to cost stamina, so for that change to take effect, you’d want to show proof. But then you say you dont care and wont bother posting proof. Why did you even go to the forums in the first place? To whine?
So you may think you’re “cool” because you “dont care what others think,” but in truth you’re the losers because your argument fails without proof.
Because this is not a court-martial or so where proof needs to be presented. I came here and stated my opinion on what I think should happen (juming should cost stamina imho). If you don't like my opnion it's your fault, I should present NOTHING to you just because I understand things are different (regardless if I'm right or wrong).
Again, if every thread where people think/believe different should have a video, then every thread would have like 20 or 30 videos posted, because in all threads people opine differently.
But....and follow me on this...the proof gets rid of opinions and reveals the...wait for it...truth. Having differing opinions about pain being an illusion doesn't mean much when you're on fire and screaming in agony, does it?
Also, they weren't referring to your opinion of it costing stamina. They were referring to the refusal to show proof of jumping to avoid AoE, even though you were stating it as fact.
Unlike real life, this game was designed with blatant functions according to a program. So having an opinion about something the system doesn't actually do is the epitome of ignorance, and stating that opinion as fact causes misinformation to other players, which is reason enough to criticise and argue against.
But, let's just take your approach. It's their opinion that your opinion is bad, so it shouldn't bother you.
My God! Let's be clear:
Flawsless Dawnbreaker MISSES if you jump! I've seen it and tested it. It just MISSES if you jump.
You saw a video that proofs different? Then GOOD for you guys. Go play based on that video and I'll play based on my live experience.
End of story for me.
Flawless Dawnbreaker misses if you stand still too. So, you know... nothing proven.
Too many people in forums don't understand the concept of Type I and Type II errors.Ectheliontnacil wrote: »
I read it as them claiming that if you jump in place (straight into the air) and stay in the red, you won't take damage from the AOE.Edited by DaveMoeDee on May 11, 2018 4:28PM0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Luigi_Vampa wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »Jumping in real life takes energy so I think it should cost stamina
So does walking. So does standing.
So to regen, we will have to lay down on the ground.
To regen you have to get 8hrs of sleep and eat a balanced breakfast. Make sure you drink plenty of water too.
Or meditate like Geralt.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If you did not take damage from aoe jumping, I guess its some chance Acast and the other experts would mentioned it.DaveMoeDee wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »HaruyukiHana wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
So does drawing back a bow or swing around a giant sword or even just walking around in plate armor. Sometimes decisions need to be made on how it affects gameplay, not if it's realistic or not, especially in a fantasy game.
You are comparing things that do not affect gamplay:
1 - Moving your elbow back does nothing, however, if you release using a skill it c stamina
2 - Swinging a sword and hitting the air does nothing, however, if you swing it using a skill you spend stamina
3 - Using heavy armor, medium and light already have their advantages and disadvantages through pasives and so.
However, jumping DOES IMPACT game play, since you can dodge skills or ground AoE. So, if you are using jumping as if it was a physical skill, then it should consume stamina.
Imho at least.
We are all still waiting on video proof of jumping dodging AoE or any abilities for that matter.
Video showing that jumping does not do those things has already been provided.
Maybe you want to prove your assertion?
Sorry but I won't bother wasting time testing, recording, uploading, etc. when you guys can test it on your own.
I've seen it several times; Flawless Dawnbreaker missing jumping toons. If cheating or not, I can't tell, but I've seen it a lot of times.
In fact, guildies and friends I PvP with told me about that, so I paid attention to it and confirmed it myself too.
If you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you. You can't really prove a negative. I could show dozens of videos of it not happening, but that doesn't mean in never happens. If you guys could show us one video of it actually happening, that would be proof.
Dawnbreaker misses all the time, even on non jumping targets.
Prove it or stop making false claims.
Again, I'm not your employee or so to do stuff for you or anyone, and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone either.
If anyone that thinks or believe different would have to put a video as proof of whatever matter, the forums would be YouTube 2.0.
You don't want to believe me? Who cares dude?! Do your stuff, play the way you think things are, test, don't test, believe, don't believe... I simply don't care what you think. Period.
Weird you say that. You want jumping to cost stamina, so for that change to take effect, you’d want to show proof. But then you say you dont care and wont bother posting proof. Why did you even go to the forums in the first place? To whine?
So you may think you’re “cool” because you “dont care what others think,” but in truth you’re the losers because your argument fails without proof.
Because this is not a court-martial or so where proof needs to be presented. I came here and stated my opinion on what I think should happen (juming should cost stamina imho). If you don't like my opnion it's your fault, I should present NOTHING to you just because I understand things are different (regardless if I'm right or wrong).
Again, if every thread where people think/believe different should have a video, then every thread would have like 20 or 30 videos posted, because in all threads people opine differently.
But....and follow me on this...the proof gets rid of opinions and reveals the...wait for it...truth. Having differing opinions about pain being an illusion doesn't mean much when you're on fire and screaming in agony, does it?
Also, they weren't referring to your opinion of it costing stamina. They were referring to the refusal to show proof of jumping to avoid AoE, even though you were stating it as fact.
Unlike real life, this game was designed with blatant functions according to a program. So having an opinion about something the system doesn't actually do is the epitome of ignorance, and stating that opinion as fact causes misinformation to other players, which is reason enough to criticise and argue against.
But, let's just take your approach. It's their opinion that your opinion is bad, so it shouldn't bother you.
My God! Let's be clear:
Flawsless Dawnbreaker MISSES if you jump! I've seen it and tested it. It just MISSES if you jump.
You saw a video that proofs different? Then GOOD for you guys. Go play based on that video and I'll play based on my live experience.
End of story for me.
Flawless Dawnbreaker misses if you stand still too. So, you know... nothing proven.
Too many people in forums don't understand the concept of Type I and Type II errors.Ectheliontnacil wrote: »
I read it as them claiming that if you jump in place (straight into the air) and stay in the red, you won't take damage from the AOE.
It would be more effective than blocking heavy DoT as you would only take damage the short time on ground.
More so it would be an way to have an good chance avoiding one shot AoE like CoH2 second last boss.
Roll dodge then jump around. Falcreach hold last boss is another
its easy to test with combat metric and an friend in duel, have him drop an AoE, stand still and heal, then try jumping.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »Jumping in real life takes energy so I think it should cost stamina
So does walking. So does standing.
So to regen, we will have to lay down on the ground.
To regen you have to get 8hrs of sleep and eat a balanced breakfast. Make sure you drink plenty of water too.
Or meditate like Geralt.
We will have a skill like that in Summerset.PC/EU DC0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭
If you did not take damage from aoe jumping, I guess its some chance Acast and the other experts would mentioned it.DaveMoeDee wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »HaruyukiHana wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
So does drawing back a bow or swing around a giant sword or even just walking around in plate armor. Sometimes decisions need to be made on how it affects gameplay, not if it's realistic or not, especially in a fantasy game.
You are comparing things that do not affect gamplay:
1 - Moving your elbow back does nothing, however, if you release using a skill it c stamina
2 - Swinging a sword and hitting the air does nothing, however, if you swing it using a skill you spend stamina
3 - Using heavy armor, medium and light already have their advantages and disadvantages through pasives and so.
However, jumping DOES IMPACT game play, since you can dodge skills or ground AoE. So, if you are using jumping as if it was a physical skill, then it should consume stamina.
Imho at least.
We are all still waiting on video proof of jumping dodging AoE or any abilities for that matter.
Video showing that jumping does not do those things has already been provided.
Maybe you want to prove your assertion?
Sorry but I won't bother wasting time testing, recording, uploading, etc. when you guys can test it on your own.
I've seen it several times; Flawless Dawnbreaker missing jumping toons. If cheating or not, I can't tell, but I've seen it a lot of times.
In fact, guildies and friends I PvP with told me about that, so I paid attention to it and confirmed it myself too.
If you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you. You can't really prove a negative. I could show dozens of videos of it not happening, but that doesn't mean in never happens. If you guys could show us one video of it actually happening, that would be proof.
Dawnbreaker misses all the time, even on non jumping targets.
Prove it or stop making false claims.
Again, I'm not your employee or so to do stuff for you or anyone, and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone either.
If anyone that thinks or believe different would have to put a video as proof of whatever matter, the forums would be YouTube 2.0.
You don't want to believe me? Who cares dude?! Do your stuff, play the way you think things are, test, don't test, believe, don't believe... I simply don't care what you think. Period.
Weird you say that. You want jumping to cost stamina, so for that change to take effect, you’d want to show proof. But then you say you dont care and wont bother posting proof. Why did you even go to the forums in the first place? To whine?
So you may think you’re “cool” because you “dont care what others think,” but in truth you’re the losers because your argument fails without proof.
Because this is not a court-martial or so where proof needs to be presented. I came here and stated my opinion on what I think should happen (juming should cost stamina imho). If you don't like my opnion it's your fault, I should present NOTHING to you just because I understand things are different (regardless if I'm right or wrong).
Again, if every thread where people think/believe different should have a video, then every thread would have like 20 or 30 videos posted, because in all threads people opine differently.
But....and follow me on this...the proof gets rid of opinions and reveals the...wait for it...truth. Having differing opinions about pain being an illusion doesn't mean much when you're on fire and screaming in agony, does it?
Also, they weren't referring to your opinion of it costing stamina. They were referring to the refusal to show proof of jumping to avoid AoE, even though you were stating it as fact.
Unlike real life, this game was designed with blatant functions according to a program. So having an opinion about something the system doesn't actually do is the epitome of ignorance, and stating that opinion as fact causes misinformation to other players, which is reason enough to criticise and argue against.
But, let's just take your approach. It's their opinion that your opinion is bad, so it shouldn't bother you.
My God! Let's be clear:
Flawsless Dawnbreaker MISSES if you jump! I've seen it and tested it. It just MISSES if you jump.
You saw a video that proofs different? Then GOOD for you guys. Go play based on that video and I'll play based on my live experience.
End of story for me.
Flawless Dawnbreaker misses if you stand still too. So, you know... nothing proven.
Too many people in forums don't understand the concept of Type I and Type II errors.Ectheliontnacil wrote: »
I read it as them claiming that if you jump in place (straight into the air) and stay in the red, you won't take damage from the AOE.
It would be more effective than blocking heavy DoT as you would only take damage the short time on ground.
More so it would be an way to have an good chance avoiding one shot AoE like CoH2 second last boss.
Roll dodge then jump around. Falcreach hold last boss is another
its easy to test with combat metric and an friend in duel, have him drop an AoE, stand still and heal, then try jumping.
Its not like that stand in middle of the AOE and jump. Suppose when an ground AOE going to hit you , jump immediately to avoid . Its reasonable. If hit by AOE before or after jumping , it will damage anyway. Thing is walking take less chance of avoiding ground AOE than jump. Its basic common sense sense to jump when there is ground AOE to avoid contact.Edited by Priyasekarssk on May 11, 2018 5:22PM0 -
Alliedrex✭✭✭I think we also need to consider the / abilities as well. I don’t see how we can have abilities that also have no cost. Just take a look a the /begone ability. The /begone ability kinda works like fear, it’s an aoe cc. I mean surely that would have a cost. Also look at the /flipthebird ability, it works like a ranged taunt. And you may say to yourself, you may say; hey Alliedrex, a free taunt doesn’t do much. But I got three words for you, Tre more scale. Yeah, that thing gives taunts a snare and a damage ability. They may have thought that typing things out in battle would offset the usage in battle. They we wrong, I just copy/paste that ability and I can just spam that. Surely they could look at these abilities as well as the jump spam.2
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Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ever notice how none of the dresses in the game ever fly up in the faces of the users when they roll about and are knocked down. Wearing a dress should cost magicka because clearly they are using spells to hold it in place.
Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Does jumping help on the Kena fight in WGT when she sends out the electric rotating lines?
I always dodge roll through them, never tried jumping.0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ive tested it extensively
You absolutely take damage from AoEs if your jumping.
What’s interesting is that when you jump you keep your momentum. If the AOE that hits you has a snare, that snare won’t start affecting you until you land (because of momentum and stuff)
Dawnbreaker was brought up in this thread. It’s a crappy skill. The problem with DB is that its Z axis dmg check does not go through the ground. That means that if for some reason its XY dmg plane gets underneath the ground (like on stairs or something) it won’t hit the people on top because it won’t go through the ground in a Z axis manner.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »HaruyukiHana wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
So does drawing back a bow or swing around a giant sword or even just walking around in plate armor. Sometimes decisions need to be made on how it affects gameplay, not if it's realistic or not, especially in a fantasy game.
You are comparing things that do not affect gamplay:
1 - Moving your elbow back does nothing, however, if you release using a skill it c stamina
2 - Swinging a sword and hitting the air does nothing, however, if you swing it using a skill you spend stamina
3 - Using heavy armor, medium and light already have their advantages and disadvantages through pasives and so.
However, jumping DOES IMPACT game play, since you can dodge skills or ground AoE. So, if you are using jumping as if it was a physical skill, then it should consume stamina.
Imho at least.
We are all still waiting on video proof of jumping dodging AoE or any abilities for that matter.
Video showing that jumping does not do those things has already been provided.
Maybe you want to prove your assertion?
Sorry but I won't bother wasting time testing, recording, uploading, etc. when you guys can test it on your own.
I've seen it several times; Flawless Dawnbreaker missing jumping toons. If cheating or not, I can't tell, but I've seen it a lot of times.
In fact, guildies and friends I PvP with told me about that, so I paid attention to it and confirmed it myself too.
If you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you. You can't really prove a negative. I could show dozens of videos of it not happening, but that doesn't mean in never happens. If you guys could show us one video of it actually happening, that would be proof.
Dawnbreaker misses all the time, even on non jumping targets.
Prove it or stop making false claims.
Again, I'm not your employee or so to do stuff for you or anyone, and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone either.
If anyone that thinks or believe different would have to put a video as proof of whatever matter, the forums would be YouTube 2.0.
You don't want to believe me? Who cares dude?! Do your stuff, play the way you think things are, test, don't test, believe, don't believe... I simply don't care what you think. Period.
Weird you say that. You want jumping to cost stamina, so for that change to take effect, you’d want to show proof. But then you say you dont care and wont bother posting proof. Why did you even go to the forums in the first place? To whine?
So you may think you’re “cool” because you “dont care what others think,” but in truth you’re the losers because your argument fails without proof.
Because this is not a court-martial or so where proof needs to be presented. I came here and stated my opinion on what I think should happen (juming should cost stamina imho). If you don't like my opnion it's your fault, I should present NOTHING to you just because I understand things are different (regardless if I'm right or wrong).
Again, if every thread where people think/believe different should have a video, then every thread would have like 20 or 30 videos posted, because in all threads people opine differently.
But....and follow me on this...the proof gets rid of opinions and reveals the...wait for it...truth. Having differing opinions about pain being an illusion doesn't mean much when you're on fire and screaming in agony, does it?
Also, they weren't referring to your opinion of it costing stamina. They were referring to the refusal to show proof of jumping to avoid AoE, even though you were stating it as fact.
Unlike real life, this game was designed with blatant functions according to a program. So having an opinion about something the system doesn't actually do is the epitome of ignorance, and stating that opinion as fact causes misinformation to other players, which is reason enough to criticise and argue against.
But, let's just take your approach. It's their opinion that your opinion is bad, so it shouldn't bother you.
My God! Let's be clear:
Flawsless Dawnbreaker MISSES if you jump! I've seen it and tested it. It just MISSES if you jump.
You saw a video that proofs different? Then GOOD for you guys. Go play based on that video and I'll play based on my live experience.
End of story for me.
Flawless Dawnbreaker misses if you stand still too. So, you know... nothing proven.
Too many people in forums don't understand the concept of Type I and Type II errors..
This is assuming that you’re already correct, which completely ignores the point he was trying to make. A false negative or a false positive both imply the conclusion is false... his point is that the conclusion (that DB misses all the time) is true. I’m really not sure what you were trying to do with this comment from a logical standpoint. But I’m bored at work so if you wanna jump in the deep end with me, let’s do it
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp2 -
Artemiisia✭✭✭✭✭
✭the jumpin tactic is like in every pvp mmo I have done so far, its both to avoid damage, but also to stress the enemy that they cant just point and shoot
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DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »HaruyukiHana wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
So does drawing back a bow or swing around a giant sword or even just walking around in plate armor. Sometimes decisions need to be made on how it affects gameplay, not if it's realistic or not, especially in a fantasy game.
You are comparing things that do not affect gamplay:
1 - Moving your elbow back does nothing, however, if you release using a skill it c stamina
2 - Swinging a sword and hitting the air does nothing, however, if you swing it using a skill you spend stamina
3 - Using heavy armor, medium and light already have their advantages and disadvantages through pasives and so.
However, jumping DOES IMPACT game play, since you can dodge skills or ground AoE. So, if you are using jumping as if it was a physical skill, then it should consume stamina.
Imho at least.
We are all still waiting on video proof of jumping dodging AoE or any abilities for that matter.
Video showing that jumping does not do those things has already been provided.
Maybe you want to prove your assertion?
Sorry but I won't bother wasting time testing, recording, uploading, etc. when you guys can test it on your own.
I've seen it several times; Flawless Dawnbreaker missing jumping toons. If cheating or not, I can't tell, but I've seen it a lot of times.
In fact, guildies and friends I PvP with told me about that, so I paid attention to it and confirmed it myself too.
If you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you. You can't really prove a negative. I could show dozens of videos of it not happening, but that doesn't mean in never happens. If you guys could show us one video of it actually happening, that would be proof.
Dawnbreaker misses all the time, even on non jumping targets.
Prove it or stop making false claims.
Again, I'm not your employee or so to do stuff for you or anyone, and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone either.
If anyone that thinks or believe different would have to put a video as proof of whatever matter, the forums would be YouTube 2.0.
You don't want to believe me? Who cares dude?! Do your stuff, play the way you think things are, test, don't test, believe, don't believe... I simply don't care what you think. Period.
Weird you say that. You want jumping to cost stamina, so for that change to take effect, you’d want to show proof. But then you say you dont care and wont bother posting proof. Why did you even go to the forums in the first place? To whine?
So you may think you’re “cool” because you “dont care what others think,” but in truth you’re the losers because your argument fails without proof.
Because this is not a court-martial or so where proof needs to be presented. I came here and stated my opinion on what I think should happen (juming should cost stamina imho). If you don't like my opnion it's your fault, I should present NOTHING to you just because I understand things are different (regardless if I'm right or wrong).
Again, if every thread where people think/believe different should have a video, then every thread would have like 20 or 30 videos posted, because in all threads people opine differently.
But....and follow me on this...the proof gets rid of opinions and reveals the...wait for it...truth. Having differing opinions about pain being an illusion doesn't mean much when you're on fire and screaming in agony, does it?
Also, they weren't referring to your opinion of it costing stamina. They were referring to the refusal to show proof of jumping to avoid AoE, even though you were stating it as fact.
Unlike real life, this game was designed with blatant functions according to a program. So having an opinion about something the system doesn't actually do is the epitome of ignorance, and stating that opinion as fact causes misinformation to other players, which is reason enough to criticise and argue against.
But, let's just take your approach. It's their opinion that your opinion is bad, so it shouldn't bother you.
My God! Let's be clear:
Flawsless Dawnbreaker MISSES if you jump! I've seen it and tested it. It just MISSES if you jump.
You saw a video that proofs different? Then GOOD for you guys. Go play based on that video and I'll play based on my live experience.
End of story for me.
Flawless Dawnbreaker misses if you stand still too. So, you know... nothing proven.
Too many people in forums don't understand the concept of Type I and Type II errors..
This is assuming that you’re already correct, which completely ignores the point he was trying to make. A false negative or a false positive both imply the conclusion is false... his point is that the conclusion (that DB misses all the time) is true. I’m really not sure what you were trying to do with this comment from a logical standpoint. But I’m bored at work so if you wanna jump in the deep end with me, let’s do it
I was criticizing the person who considered only DB not working when jumping and didn't consider what happens if he didn't jump. If they jumped and were hit, that would mean jumping didn't help. But if we jump and aren't hit, jumping only helped if we would get hit standing still.
Tbh, I have no idea when DB hits and doesn't. But I do know that you can't conclude you are correct about an action causing an effect without testing whether not doing the action causes the same effect, which seemed to be the point @Kodrac made.
My main point is that we tend to search for data to prove our point instead of actually trying to test our belief.Edited by DaveMoeDee on May 11, 2018 8:14PM1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is interesting that several people have stated that jumping confers little to no benefit and yet they seem to be vehemently against it costing stamina. Why would they care?
Because there is a much bigger world than pvp in ESO. It's already annoying having your character unable to transverse across any little bump in your path forcing most of us to constantly jump forward just to maintain our momentum in the overworld/dungeons.
I'd rather jump forward over an obstacle than constantly go around objects in my path. Interesting that this never crossed your mind.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Ah I think you misunderstood him. He quoted a poster who said “db misses if you jump” and then he responded with “it misses if you stand still too, so we can’t really learn anything from that” which seems to be in line with your thoughts as well.DaveMoeDee wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »HaruyukiHana wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »Luigi_Vampa wrote: »Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
Dragonnord wrote: »I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
So does drawing back a bow or swing around a giant sword or even just walking around in plate armor. Sometimes decisions need to be made on how it affects gameplay, not if it's realistic or not, especially in a fantasy game.
You are comparing things that do not affect gamplay:
1 - Moving your elbow back does nothing, however, if you release using a skill it c stamina
2 - Swinging a sword and hitting the air does nothing, however, if you swing it using a skill you spend stamina
3 - Using heavy armor, medium and light already have their advantages and disadvantages through pasives and so.
However, jumping DOES IMPACT game play, since you can dodge skills or ground AoE. So, if you are using jumping as if it was a physical skill, then it should consume stamina.
Imho at least.
We are all still waiting on video proof of jumping dodging AoE or any abilities for that matter.
Video showing that jumping does not do those things has already been provided.
Maybe you want to prove your assertion?
Sorry but I won't bother wasting time testing, recording, uploading, etc. when you guys can test it on your own.
I've seen it several times; Flawless Dawnbreaker missing jumping toons. If cheating or not, I can't tell, but I've seen it a lot of times.
In fact, guildies and friends I PvP with told me about that, so I paid attention to it and confirmed it myself too.
If you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you. You can't really prove a negative. I could show dozens of videos of it not happening, but that doesn't mean in never happens. If you guys could show us one video of it actually happening, that would be proof.
Dawnbreaker misses all the time, even on non jumping targets.
Prove it or stop making false claims.
Again, I'm not your employee or so to do stuff for you or anyone, and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone either.
If anyone that thinks or believe different would have to put a video as proof of whatever matter, the forums would be YouTube 2.0.
You don't want to believe me? Who cares dude?! Do your stuff, play the way you think things are, test, don't test, believe, don't believe... I simply don't care what you think. Period.
Weird you say that. You want jumping to cost stamina, so for that change to take effect, you’d want to show proof. But then you say you dont care and wont bother posting proof. Why did you even go to the forums in the first place? To whine?
So you may think you’re “cool” because you “dont care what others think,” but in truth you’re the losers because your argument fails without proof.
Because this is not a court-martial or so where proof needs to be presented. I came here and stated my opinion on what I think should happen (juming should cost stamina imho). If you don't like my opnion it's your fault, I should present NOTHING to you just because I understand things are different (regardless if I'm right or wrong).
Again, if every thread where people think/believe different should have a video, then every thread would have like 20 or 30 videos posted, because in all threads people opine differently.
But....and follow me on this...the proof gets rid of opinions and reveals the...wait for it...truth. Having differing opinions about pain being an illusion doesn't mean much when you're on fire and screaming in agony, does it?
Also, they weren't referring to your opinion of it costing stamina. They were referring to the refusal to show proof of jumping to avoid AoE, even though you were stating it as fact.
Unlike real life, this game was designed with blatant functions according to a program. So having an opinion about something the system doesn't actually do is the epitome of ignorance, and stating that opinion as fact causes misinformation to other players, which is reason enough to criticise and argue against.
But, let's just take your approach. It's their opinion that your opinion is bad, so it shouldn't bother you.
My God! Let's be clear:
Flawsless Dawnbreaker MISSES if you jump! I've seen it and tested it. It just MISSES if you jump.
You saw a video that proofs different? Then GOOD for you guys. Go play based on that video and I'll play based on my live experience.
End of story for me.
Flawless Dawnbreaker misses if you stand still too. So, you know... nothing proven.
Too many people in forums don't understand the concept of Type I and Type II errors..
This is assuming that you’re already correct, which completely ignores the point he was trying to make. A false negative or a false positive both imply the conclusion is false... his point is that the conclusion (that DB misses all the time) is true. I’m really not sure what you were trying to do with this comment from a logical standpoint. But I’m bored at work so if you wanna jump in the deep end with me, let’s do it
I was criticizing the person who considered only DB not working when jumping and didn't consider what happens if he didn't jump. If they jumped and were hit, that would mean jumping didn't help. But if we jump and aren't hit, jumping only helped if we would get hit standing still.
Tbh, I have no idea when DB hits and doesn't. But I do know that you can't conclude you are correct about an action causing an effect without testing whether not doing the action causes the same effect, which seemed to be the point @Kodrac made.
My main point is that we tend to search for data to prove our point instead of actually trying to test our belief.
Can’t go full Cartesian on this tho... can’t test to see if NOT attacking someone with a dawnbreaker causes a miss, since a miss is dependent on a DB.. dependent binary outcomes and all that.Edited by Thogard on May 11, 2018 8:44PMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If jumping should cost stamina then applying immmobilize and every slow higher then 15% should also drain additional amount of stamina each second of duration LOL.0
