Jumping "Dodge" should consume stamina

GreenSoup2HoT

Why do people insist on making the game worse to play. No stamina regen while sprinting and blocking has only hurt the potenail this game had for fun fluid combat. I hardly sprint or block on medium builds at all anymore because its never worth the regen loss compared to just healing through the damage.

Kodrac

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Kova wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

HaruyukiHana wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
 

Danksta wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
 

So does drawing back a bow or swing around a giant sword or even just walking around in plate armor. Sometimes decisions need to be made on how it affects gameplay, not if it's realistic or not, especially in a fantasy game.

You are comparing things that do not affect gamplay:

1 - Moving your elbow back does nothing, however, if you release using a skill it c stamina
2 - Swinging a sword and hitting the air does nothing, however, if you swing it using a skill you spend stamina
3 - Using heavy armor, medium and light already have their advantages and disadvantages through pasives and so.

However, jumping DOES IMPACT game play, since you can dodge skills or ground AoE. So, if you are using jumping as if it was a physical skill, then it should consume stamina.

Imho at least.
 

We are all still waiting on video proof of jumping dodging AoE or any abilities for that matter.

Video showing that jumping does not do those things has already been provided.

Maybe you want to prove your assertion?

Sorry but I won't bother wasting time testing, recording, uploading, etc. when you guys can test it on your own.

I've seen it several times; Flawless Dawnbreaker missing jumping toons. If cheating or not, I can't tell, but I've seen it a lot of times.

In fact, guildies and friends I PvP with told me about that, so I paid attention to it and confirmed it myself too.
 

If you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you. You can't really prove a negative. I could show dozens of videos of it not happening, but that doesn't mean in never happens. If you guys could show us one video of it actually happening, that would be proof.

Dawnbreaker misses all the time, even on non jumping targets.

Prove it or stop making false claims.

Again, I'm not your employee or so to do stuff for you or anyone, and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone either.

If anyone that thinks or believe different would have to put a video as proof of whatever matter, the forums would be YouTube 2.0.

You don't want to believe me? Who cares dude?! Do your stuff, play the way you think things are, test, don't test, believe, don't believe... I simply don't care what you think. Period.
 

Weird you say that. You want jumping to cost stamina, so for that change to take effect, you’d want to show proof. But then you say you dont care and wont bother posting proof. Why did you even go to the forums in the first place? To whine?

So you may think you’re “cool” because you “dont care what others think,” but in truth you’re the losers because your argument fails without proof.

Because this is not a court-martial or so where proof needs to be presented. I came here and stated my opinion on what I think should happen (juming should cost stamina imho). If you don't like my opnion it's your fault, I should present NOTHING to you just because I understand things are different (regardless if I'm right or wrong).

Again, if every thread where people think/believe different should have a video, then every thread would have like 20 or 30 videos posted, because in all threads people opine differently.
 

But....and follow me on this...the proof gets rid of opinions and reveals the...wait for it...truth. Having differing opinions about pain being an illusion doesn't mean much when you're on fire and screaming in agony, does it?

Also, they weren't referring to your opinion of it costing stamina. They were referring to the refusal to show proof of jumping to avoid AoE, even though you were stating it as fact.

Unlike real life, this game was designed with blatant functions according to a program. So having an opinion about something the system doesn't actually do is the epitome of ignorance, and stating that opinion as fact causes misinformation to other players, which is reason enough to criticise and argue against.

But, let's just take your approach. It's their opinion that your opinion is bad, so it shouldn't bother you.

My God! Let's be clear:

Flawsless Dawnbreaker MISSES if you jump! I've seen it and tested it. It just MISSES if you jump.

You saw a video that proofs different? Then GOOD for you guys. Go play based on that video and I'll play based on my live experience.

End of story for me.
 

Flawless Dawnbreaker misses if you stand still too. So, you know... nothing proven.

Too many people in forums don't understand the concept of Type I and Type II errors..

This is assuming that you’re already correct, which completely ignores the point he was trying to make. A false negative or a false positive both imply the conclusion is false... his point is that the conclusion (that DB misses all the time) is true. I’m really not sure what you were trying to do with this comment from a logical standpoint. But I’m bored at work so if you wanna jump in the deep end with me, let’s do it

I was criticizing the person who considered only DB not working when jumping and didn't consider what happens if he didn't jump. If they jumped and were hit, that would mean jumping didn't help. But if we jump and aren't hit, jumping only helped if we would get hit standing still.

Tbh, I have no idea when DB hits and doesn't. But I do know that you can't conclude you are correct about an action causing an effect without testing whether not doing the action causes the same effect, which seemed to be the point @Kodrac made.

My main point is that we tend to search for data to prove our point instead of actually trying to test our belief.

Yes you interpreted me correctly.

Morbash

Haven't played this game in months, so I'm not sure if Healing Ward and other certain abilities still behave the same.

I know at one point jumping used to help alleviate an issue with certain abilities such as Healing Ward. When casting these abilities while moving, you would experience a "hitching effect." Your character would stop moving for a split second to cast the ability.

This was especially annoying for solo players since movement is a key element to our survival.

fierackas

Sevn wrote: »

I'd rather jump forward over an obstacle than constantly go around objects in my path. Interesting that this never crossed your mind.

Honestly? I've only ever found it to be a minor inconvenience and something that only happens rarely. And once again, if you have to spend stamina once in a blue moon while travelling overland (I use a mount personally) why the angst?

Luigi_Vampa

fierackas wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I'd rather jump forward over an obstacle than constantly go around objects in my path. Interesting that this never crossed your mind.

Honestly? I've only ever found it to be a minor inconvenience and something that only happens rarely. And once again, if you have to spend stamina once in a blue moon while travelling overland (I use a mount personally) why the angst?

I gave you a bunch of reasons for jumping. What I have to ask you is do you have reason for jumping to cost stamina besides realism?

Sevn

fierackas wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I'd rather jump forward over an obstacle than constantly go around objects in my path. Interesting that this never crossed your mind.

Honestly? I've only ever found it to be a minor inconvenience and something that only happens rarely. And once again, if you have to spend stamina once in a blue moon while travelling overland (I use a mount personally) why the angst?

Because it's not once in a blue moon for me? I like jumping while in dungeons and delves and do so very frequently, is it really hard to understand that someone plays completely different than you? Why are you so invested in seeing a change may I ask?

Haquor

Enslaved wrote: »

By that logic swinging any weapon, even staff should consume some stamina. Casting skills, even magicka ones should consume some stamina ( its not easy to do these moves 70 times in a row irl, try it out). Just leave jumping alone. Anyone can jump, be it sorc, DK or a nimble nightblade. Any changes to this would break ESO some more.

Id like to see half the players of this game run (not sprint) the distance from sej to alessia in real life without collapsing. Perhaps walking should also consume stamina. And you only regenerate when in the shade /sitting.

zaria

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Kova wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

HaruyukiHana wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
 

Danksta wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I agree. Jumping is a physical effort made by the character, so it should consume stamina.
 

So does drawing back a bow or swing around a giant sword or even just walking around in plate armor. Sometimes decisions need to be made on how it affects gameplay, not if it's realistic or not, especially in a fantasy game.

You are comparing things that do not affect gamplay:

1 - Moving your elbow back does nothing, however, if you release using a skill it c stamina
2 - Swinging a sword and hitting the air does nothing, however, if you swing it using a skill you spend stamina
3 - Using heavy armor, medium and light already have their advantages and disadvantages through pasives and so.

However, jumping DOES IMPACT game play, since you can dodge skills or ground AoE. So, if you are using jumping as if it was a physical skill, then it should consume stamina.

Imho at least.
 

We are all still waiting on video proof of jumping dodging AoE or any abilities for that matter.

Video showing that jumping does not do those things has already been provided.

Maybe you want to prove your assertion?

Sorry but I won't bother wasting time testing, recording, uploading, etc. when you guys can test it on your own.

I've seen it several times; Flawless Dawnbreaker missing jumping toons. If cheating or not, I can't tell, but I've seen it a lot of times.

In fact, guildies and friends I PvP with told me about that, so I paid attention to it and confirmed it myself too.
 

If you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you. You can't really prove a negative. I could show dozens of videos of it not happening, but that doesn't mean in never happens. If you guys could show us one video of it actually happening, that would be proof.

Dawnbreaker misses all the time, even on non jumping targets.

Prove it or stop making false claims.

Again, I'm not your employee or so to do stuff for you or anyone, and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone either.

If anyone that thinks or believe different would have to put a video as proof of whatever matter, the forums would be YouTube 2.0.

You don't want to believe me? Who cares dude?! Do your stuff, play the way you think things are, test, don't test, believe, don't believe... I simply don't care what you think. Period.
 

Weird you say that. You want jumping to cost stamina, so for that change to take effect, you’d want to show proof. But then you say you dont care and wont bother posting proof. Why did you even go to the forums in the first place? To whine?

So you may think you’re “cool” because you “dont care what others think,” but in truth you’re the losers because your argument fails without proof.

Because this is not a court-martial or so where proof needs to be presented. I came here and stated my opinion on what I think should happen (juming should cost stamina imho). If you don't like my opnion it's your fault, I should present NOTHING to you just because I understand things are different (regardless if I'm right or wrong).

Again, if every thread where people think/believe different should have a video, then every thread would have like 20 or 30 videos posted, because in all threads people opine differently.
 

But....and follow me on this...the proof gets rid of opinions and reveals the...wait for it...truth. Having differing opinions about pain being an illusion doesn't mean much when you're on fire and screaming in agony, does it?

Also, they weren't referring to your opinion of it costing stamina. They were referring to the refusal to show proof of jumping to avoid AoE, even though you were stating it as fact.

Unlike real life, this game was designed with blatant functions according to a program. So having an opinion about something the system doesn't actually do is the epitome of ignorance, and stating that opinion as fact causes misinformation to other players, which is reason enough to criticise and argue against.

But, let's just take your approach. It's their opinion that your opinion is bad, so it shouldn't bother you.

My God! Let's be clear:

Flawsless Dawnbreaker MISSES if you jump! I've seen it and tested it. It just MISSES if you jump.

You saw a video that proofs different? Then GOOD for you guys. Go play based on that video and I'll play based on my live experience.

End of story for me.
 

Flawless Dawnbreaker misses if you stand still too. So, you know... nothing proven.

Too many people in forums don't understand the concept of Type I and Type II errors.

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Jumping doesn’t count as a dodge, nor does it cause attacks to miss.....

Yes it does lol

No it does not XD.

You can jump out of AoEs but you can also walk out of them, should walking consume stamina? Completely *** thread.

I read it as them claiming that if you jump in place (straight into the air) and stay in the red, you won't take damage from the AOE.

If you did not take damage from aoe jumping, I guess its some chance Acast and the other experts would mentioned it.
It would be more effective than blocking heavy DoT as you would only take damage the short time on ground.

More so it would be an way to have an good chance avoiding one shot AoE like CoH2 second last boss.
Roll dodge then jump around. Falcreach hold last boss is another

its easy to test with combat metric and an friend in duel, have him drop an AoE, stand still and heal, then try jumping.

Its not like that stand in middle of the AOE and jump. Suppose when an ground AOE going to hit you , jump immediately to avoid . Its reasonable. If hit by AOE before or after jumping , it will damage anyway. Thing is walking take less chance of avoiding ground AOE than jump.

Still don't think it help more than running.

fierackas wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I'd rather jump forward over an obstacle than constantly go around objects in my path. Interesting that this never crossed your mind.

Honestly? I've only ever found it to be a minor inconvenience and something that only happens rarely. And once again, if you have to spend stamina once in a blue moon while travelling overland (I use a mount personally) why the angst?

i countered with magic build always out of stamina while sprinting.
Vault of madness is an obvious place who would suck with this. Probably more dungeons, add the issue if you block on an magic build then has to jump up on an 30 cm edge. HRC for one, probably loads of others.
In short it would suck hard for magic build, now if you double the duration of shields it could work.

In the good idea category : Khajiit tails should work as staffs

Nox_Noir

It should cost stamina. I'm so sick of the bunny hoppers in PVP. Stam cost to jump wouldn't really impact anyone else so seems like a good way to address that issue.

IZZEFlameLash

Bunny hopping doesn't do anything but taunting you obviously. It does not have any advantage othet than you are less likely to get held back by some random pebble embedded in the ground preventing you from moving. No. It does not make your skills magically miss like dodgeroll.

fierackas

Sevn wrote: »

fierackas wrote: »

Because it's not once in a blue moon for me? I like jumping while in dungeons and delves and do so very frequently, is it really hard to understand that someone plays completely different than you? Why are you so invested in seeing a change may I ask?

Oh, I'm not bothered either way, I'm not the OP. I was just interested in the reactions against what seemed an innocuous change that was proposed. Zaria's post has clarified it thanks.

Checkmath

So do we need to use /sit, /sleep or /sitchair all 100 meters walking to recover stamina now?

Sevn

fierackas wrote: »

I guess I have an irrational dislike of hopping toons because I remember people doing it irl laser quest to avoid hits. I felt like clubbing them over the head with the gun instead

fierackas wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

fierackas wrote: »

Because it's not once in a blue moon for me? I like jumping while in dungeons and delves and do so very frequently, is it really hard to understand that someone plays completely different than you? Why are you so invested in seeing a change may I ask?

Oh, I'm not bothered either way, I'm not the OP. I was just interested in the reactions against what seemed an innocuous change that was proposed. Zaria's post has clarified it thanks.

Good to know. I mistakenly thought you were invested in a change simply because you didn't like how someone else was playing the game differently.

itsfatbass

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Jumping doesn’t count as a dodge, nor does it cause attacks to miss.....

Yes it does lol

It only does if they are jumping above a ground aoe, like jumping over hot coals. But that's it... and is hardly any different than simply walking out of it.

NyassaV

Chrysa1is wrote: »

I think alot of people will not view and discuss this thread out of fear that ZOS might consider changing the jump.

If jumping actually negated damage then it could consume stamina. All jumping does is re-direct the momentum of the character sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.

Chrysa1is

Kova wrote: »

Jumping does not negate AoEs.
Jumping does not "dodge" attacks.

Provide visual proof that it does, and then your claims are valid. Not, "oh I saw it!"

Actual proof.

Is this a troll thread? It has to be. There's no way grown adults are bothered by jumping in a game that affects nothing but personal aim enough to have this discussion.

Everything inside of me just can't accept this is a real discussion. It's not about balance, or actual combat mechanics, or even lore...it's an aggressive stance against...jumping????

Edit:

Hey, this is same person that started a goodbye thread back in November. Welcome back! XD

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380474/game-over

hey guys its me

not a troll thread i promise.

bit bothered by the fact you went digging for dirt though by looking on my profile and at my previous threads but its cool. hey *** diddly doo.