Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

um..... no.

current system works but the ui does need some serious attention.

Current system doesn't work for new comers, its all about who has played longest

Sure it does. No matter what zone they are in they can find a guild trader than will probably have all the basic stuff a new player wants/needs. Later when they are ready to start selling beyond using zone chat they have five guild slots and trade guilds are accepting new members all the time. And when they need a few rare items it isn't going to cost them an outrageous amount of gold.

The guild trader system can be improved but making it a central trading system is a big big step in the wrong direction.

Not according to the other 99% of MMO's

coming from those 99% of those mmo. I prefer ESO. It is too easy in other mmo to do price hikes, and manipulate pricing, and for rmt to flourish. ff11 had a major economic crash due to rmt.

ff14 has "undercutting" issue, and everyone is up in arms over a new app. and i just hated WoW's AH.

with ESO i tend to get to know the guilds who sell stuff at good prices, and get to know which npc they go for. Which is not hard to do at all.

I never had any issue looking for items I needed.

Jameliel wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Consolidating every listing would wreck the game economy for a variety of reasons, but the suggesting for larger localized trade hubs is a good one. Far off traders are often still very close to a wayshrine, and often have lowball listings due to the locations.

I’m fully against a trader town in the way you describe it though. It wouldn’t feel like part of the game world if traders were all bundled into one small area.

*chants “Make AwesomeGuildStore the base UI” louder*

No, no it wouldn't "wreck the economy".

Why?

Beardimus wrote: »

We don't need this at all. Do a search for auction house, this topic has been covered countless times.

A text search function would be handy say for motifs. Otherwise just learn to use the system.

- 'out there' traders can still sell to all members of that guild, they also often have the best deals which would stop if there was an AH
- join 2-3 good traders and you can access them all from your bank, no running
- there is no need to use traders weekly! Craft the basics, it's way cheaper and faster. Use traders when you are feeling lazy or looking for rare items / set pieces
- central trader would be open to market manipulation, big guilds could easily price fix
- it takes less than 20 minutes to fast travel to the major hubs and check for stuff. And if you know the decent smaller traders its easy enough to find them and try for a deal.

TLDR if you arrive from WOW you probably want to copy that system. ESO system is good, some of us feel better, but you need to learn to use it efficiently. Work against it and you will struggle

Knowledge wrote: »

A system like this would help console players immensely that have no access to addons.

^ and sorry. That's just not true. Some of the trader add ons despite on the surface taking some effort away replicate the issues of an AH. Central buying up of things, relisting etc. BTW I'm a console player and player with console players. Please don't speak on our behalf.

in fact i found the item search in the trade window pretty easy to use once i got the hang of it. I love it better the ff11 AH, ff14 Market board, ff14 1.0 retainer ward. WoW AH, tera AH.

Obviously, the big trading guilds (a lot of people) will hate this because they're running the current monopoly. I think for the average player this would be a good addition.

A lot of the active forum posters are members of trading guilds so you will se some very biased posts.

Current system ain't broke. Leave guild traders as is.

Over and over I see people trying to say that a few will dominate by buying all of a rare item and jack the price.

But they make this claim without data and without evidence.

There are examples of people trying this already. It failed because the market manipulators do not have the ability to stop new farmed items from entering supply, and because the manipulators cannot force people to buy.

People tried to monopolize temper alloys - but more tempers are as close as the ore patch. Result: manipulation FAIL.

People tried to monopolize aetherial dust and jack the Xbox NA price from ~80k to above 110k. Guess what? They failed because people refused to buy mythic pots at a price that could support the cost of dust, and all across the traders dust sat and expired for months until the idiot ‘manipulators’ submitted to the pressure from the general public.

Hard number time. A while back I think it was @ZOS_RichLambert that shared some wealth distribution numbers with us. On Xbox, 95% of the people had about 500k or less, total on their account. So, being generous to you anti-central trader people just to illustrate how silly it is, let’s thought experiment this out.

5% are the market dominators, the people you think are going to buy up anything they want in a central public all-access trader and jack the price to gouge the 95%.

In your claim, each 5 market manipulators is going to run oversight on all the listings of 95 people, and flip it all. Logistically, game that out. The 5 manipulators have 5 X 30 = 150 total listing slots in this central public trader. And the 95 people they are watching for items to flip have 95 X 30 = 2850 listing slots. That’s a ratio of 1 manipulator to 19 others.

So, each individual market manipulator will be trying to monopolize all the decent items out of 570 listings and flip them through their own 30 listing slots.

Between the valuable alchemy mats, crafting mats and tempers, motifs, set items, provisioning ingredients, recipes, furnishing items, and so on... does anyone really think that these so-called market monopolizers are going to be able to condense the general public’s 570 slots into their own 30 slots?

Ever heard the word ‘bottleneck’?

Every day, the would-be monopolizer needs every single thing in their 30 slots to move, to make room for whatever the general public decides to list in their 570 slots. Because the 95% are still farming and listing mats. Still doing dolmens and listing rings. Still farming sets. The monopolizers cannot keep up, the commodity items are too easy to farm for anyone to corner the market.

Remember, this isn’t just theory. I watched it happen with aetherial dust. I was making a fair profit buying dust at 70 to 80k and selling mythics at 25k each, until the dust disappeared everywhere for a week and then reappeared upwards of 100k. Using my own on hand stock I tried listing at 30 to 35k, no buyers. There is zero chance I would buy dust at a price where the mythics wouldn’t cover costs, so I left that item behind, along with a number of other names I had come to see often also dealt in the mythic aetherial potion market.

A centralized trader open to the public cannot come to the calamity the naysayers claim, because 5 people cannot overpower 95 people. They have tried and failed with one of the rarest drops in game, they would face an even steeper challenge making the attempt with things that are more common than aetherial dust.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

• It promotes travel and immersion.
• It also prevents the massive server vommit that would take place by having 1000's of people in the same location trying to access all guilds.
• It would be a momumental pain in the ass to find the guild store you're looking for.

You're basically asking for a modified version of an auction house, and just "No."

Why do you have such difficulty wayshrining to a different location?

Because it is stupid.. You could have three locations for each Guild trader(s; DF, EP, AD.) (*)edited part

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

"Because it is stupid" - best argumentation ever.

you forget half of it in your quote.

EQ1 had a giant guild trader area where you had a permanent Charter* standing there with your goods.

Star Wars was a little sucky, but the had Kiosks that you could search and go to the players home to buy your item from the toon sellers.

Vanguard had a centralized auction house that was great. Auctioneers all over, dasiy changed to see all listings.

It works.

Mas
*Edited

Masume wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

"Because it is stupid" - best argumentation ever.

you forget half of it in your quote.

Right, in his OP he also said it's dumb.

Kodrac wrote: »

I like running around and shopping. it adds flavor to the game. The stock ui needs a Master Merchant style overhaul though. If I didn't have it I'd hate shopping even if it was just a centralized place.

Yeah, I like going around shopping too. Though I always start with my own guilds (including the ones who don't go for a trader but still have a store).

It's really not that hard to find stuff and if you are in a hurry, you pay a bit more. If you have time, you can shop around and find a deal.

Cryptical wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Let's probably not do this, for reasons. Legitimate reasons, but I don't want to list them because, well, we've been over this before.

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Reginald! Wait. I fired him.

JEEVES! THE STICK!



Thanks Jeeves

Or, the reasons have been met with solid logical counter arguments that are supported by facts and actual events and you don’t have a response.

It’s pretty hard to claim a central public trader will manipulate the market when nothing on the planet was able to keep motif prices inflated against public action even though MM and TTC effectively centralize the pc market. Phrased differently - MM and TTC effectively centralize the pc marketplace by consolidating data in one place, and all the high rollers of the pc market could not do anything to keep motif prices up when the general public took action to farm them.

Lesson - the 95% is the ocean that makes the market, the 5% try to surf the waves but are powerless if the ocean gets choppy.

I do agree that there are solid counterpoints to decentralized trading, but while obviously centralized trading could work, it would still have problems that our current system manages well enough. That is also not to say that our current system is without its own flaws. It IS to say, however, that our current system was implemented over a centralized auction house style system for fair reasons, and so far, we have not seen the surge of problems that were the likely motive behind not using a centralized trading system. This is all to say that while trading could be better by switching from the status quo, I think that the risk of making it worse very much so outweighs the possibility of making it better. And this is all ignoring that there's nothing overtly broken right now, so why fix it if it ain't broken? Decentralized trading is there, it's fairly unique, and it works, so why bother rallying against it?

As for the rest, the reason I don't want to get into it, or try and debate figures and models, is because we've been over this. The whole forum has. Many, many times. Go look at one of the million other threads if you want something besides dead horse beating memes.

Rawkan wrote: »

Obviously, the big trading guilds (a lot of people) will hate this because they're running the current monopoly. I think for the average player this would be a good addition.

A lot of the active forum posters are members of trading guilds so you will se some very biased posts.

There is no current monopoly. There happens to be almost 200 traders scattered across the lands. I'm guessing forty or more would be considered prime locations. Each of those locations is owned by a different guild and who owns it can change on a weekly basis. I've never been in a guild that makes demands of members when it comes to listing prices and I have been in some of the top trade guilds. They do usually ask that members not sell items in guild chat and instead list items in the store but that is understandable and exceptions are allowed.

Now with a central auction house (single location) monopolizing rare items could be done by two or three dedicated players whether they are in a guild or not. All they have to do is have one of them sitting at the auction house so it is covered all the time. Players do that in other games and they would do that in this one.