There is currently nothing gameplay relevant in the CS that you can't also get in-game.

- Paid mounts
- Paid costumes/vanity items
- Paid time speed-ups

Nothing new for Western games either.

Gambling systems

*** way to squeeze consumers for more money, but not a F2P feature anymore.

Banana wrote: »

Hopefully. The server might be closer

What you mean? Potato's can be grown in most countries

A lot of these were common to pay-to-play games long before free-to-play was invented. I was buying 'item packs' for PC games as early as the mid-90s and back then the general thinking seemed to be that of course you'll have to pay extra for things that weren't in the base game. (Of course it helped that back then extra items weren't a big seller so the developers needed to make a complete game to sell first, whereas these days some games are more like a 'starter pack' where you're going to have to keep paying out to get the full game.)

There's nothing inherently wrong with offering players the option to buy extras. The important thing is that it needs to be optional. And you need to be selling a complete game for the initial purchase price.

And at the moment ESO does that. Even if you don't subscribe or buy any DLC or expansions you've got hundreds of hours of gameplay and everything you need to complete it. You don't need to buy crown store mounts because the ones in-game are just as good. You don't need to buy bank and bag upgrades because you can use gold, and you don't need the time speed-ups at all.

And actually I suspect what they're talking about there is things like that new Harry Potter game where you can play it for an hour or so then get told you've run out of "energy" and either need to wait a day in real-time before you can play again or pay real money to buy more energy. You're not paying to speed up one minor unlock (like crafting an item with a new trait) you're paying to unlock the ability to play the game at all.

Basically it's not as simple as saying "If a game sells X then it's using free-to-play/pay-to-win tactics and we should hate it". It comes down to what other options the player has and whether they're forced to spend extra money to progress. If you buy ESO you can complete the entire game, fully upgrade your equipment, mount, bank/bag/crafting etc. without spending anything else. You can even get non-combat 'costumes' in the form of common clothing you can find around the world.

The only thing you can't do without paying is get access to the DLC and expansion areas, but I doubt anyone will argue they should make that free.

If ESO is so bad for some people why on earth are they still here playing?

There is nothing in the store and I mean NOTHING you are required to buy?

Crates are an option yes but again no purchase required; the sub some of us subscribe for is a bonus nothing more and a BONUS I might add that is a great value just for the craft bag alone.

it may be time to move on or better yet find the positive here in ESO instead of railing just to heard.

Czekoludek wrote: »

@Azuramoonstar I agree that company need to earn cash to keep servers online etc. But when for example out of 74 mounts only 4 can be earned in game, isn't it a little to much? I just think that ESO slowly lost the balance between the content you can earn in game and the content for which you must pay for.

do you understand the concept and genre of the mmorpg? ESO is an mmorpg. They need constant flow of money to sustain the severs and upkeep. This isn't a buy to play single player. Unless they switch back to pay to play only. Cash shop is here to stay.

buy to play is not much different from free to play. Just 1 offers the game free, the other makes you at least buy it. After that, they rely on cash shop purchases to keep things going.

b2p/f2p used to be very very limited back in the early days of b2p/f2p mmo. Like you could only get lvl 20 for free then need to pay for level unlocks, needed to pay real money for any bag increase. Most were very pay to win.

ESO doesn't force you to pay for anything outside the game/dlc. And when you sub, you are given 1:1 ratio in crowns to buy stuff. realistically speaking, if you pay the sub every month and save crowns, anything in the cash shop is "free".

If you don't pay sub then you gotta pay crowns to pay for things.

I truely do not think you understand mmo and how they work, and just stiring the pot for no reason.

Should look at ff14, and WoW. those are pay to play MMO with cash shops and you need to spend real cash on. with items going for $2-$40. 1 mount in the ff14 cash shop is $20-$30 (fat moogle 2 seater)

if you wanna be up in arms over cash shop.Go to ff14 or WoW. as pay to play mmo don't need a cash shop

lordrichter wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

If you have to buy it for $60, its not Free to Play.

This is such a moot point these days that it is more of a formality than something that really means anything. It is the literal truth, but that is about where it ends. There are a few remaining advantages to that "$60", and that is probably all that is holding back Bethesda and ZOS from dropping it entirely. Eventually, I expect them to do that, and to that end, if they are, it is probably already in plan and they are working towards a date. Summerset certainly adds a couple of features that will be handy if they switch over.

As for ESO being an Asian F2P? No. There is more to it than what is on that list.

Problem with F2P is that you will get way more bots and trolls, as its just to create an new account.
We know ESO don't have very good systems against them.

MaxwellC wrote: »

F2P models are arguably the most profitable & you can look to many games that have been released over 20 years ago that still remain in operation because of that kind of model.

The initial payment for the game excludes it from being a traditional F2P model but the practices in the game are F2P base as again they make the best profit. So far more games continue to follow the model e.g Destiny, Star wars,etc. It's not a bad model but some people do it better than others. IMO ZOS does it in a okay model but the only way to be great, would be to allow purchases from all items in each seasonal crown crate (yes radiant apex as well).

f2p is not all that profitable if you look into it.

mmo need constant, consistent cash flow and f2p models don't offer that. When mmo go f2p, it means it failed and they use sub numbers as marketing tools to get whales to play it. Most Kmmo f2p rely on loot boxes, which print money due to gambling addictions.

game dev naoki yoshida explains it best in an old interview around ff14 relaunch.

ff11 was there most profitable ff game and still pay to play. WoW is the biggest mmo which is pay to play, and ff14 is pay to play.

f2p mmo are not as big as you think, as due to no subs, you downloading and trying the game for 20 min counts as an account/player score.

zaria wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

If you have to buy it for $60, its not Free to Play.

This is such a moot point these days that it is more of a formality than something that really means anything. It is the literal truth, but that is about where it ends. There are a few remaining advantages to that "$60", and that is probably all that is holding back Bethesda and ZOS from dropping it entirely. Eventually, I expect them to do that, and to that end, if they are, it is probably already in plan and they are working towards a date. Summerset certainly adds a couple of features that will be handy if they switch over.

As for ESO being an Asian F2P? No. There is more to it than what is on that list.

Problem with F2P is that you will get way more bots and trolls, as its just to create an new account.
We know ESO don't have very good systems against them.

That is only a "problem" for the Studio when they care. if ZOS decides not to care, problem goes away. They still do care, I think, and this is one reason why they are hanging onto the B2P by a thread. However, when that caring becomes a revenue liability, they will snip that thread without even looking back. I am hoping it won't come to that, but I really don't think that current players are recommending this game to new players enough to ensure that won't happen.

ZOS is still pretty low level on the Building Brand Loyalty skill line. This means that they cannot depend on their players to help them build and maintain a future player base. They really have no other choice but to rely on the occasional carrot to attract new players. The next big one is "opening up Tamriel to everyone, no purchase required!"

Sting864 wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Unless you want to turn eso back into a strictly pay to play mmo, then the "f2p/b2p" model will be there. Businesses are out to make money from a service. eso is free with next to no limits after you buy it. Which you can buy the game pretty cheaply. I bout eso digital for $13 which had both the base game, and morrowind. summerset is 30-40+ which comes with morrowind.

Ummm... There's no such thing as a "f2p/b2p" model...
ESO is B2P period...
As soon as you say "...after you buy it," f2p is off the table....

they follow the same model structure. buy to play mmo is just buying the disk/digital. It still will have cash shop, and other stuff for revenue much like a free mmo. lil to no difference outside 1 is free 1 is not.

but the revenue intake comes from the same model. Which is why i wrote the "f2p/b2p" model. Instead of being quick to correct a person, how about asking questions? It helps a lot.

b2p: buy game, has cash shop, has boosts, has OPTIONAL subscription (with perks)

f2p: has cash shop, has boosts, may have optional sub, may not. (if so with perks)

very lil difference.

tlrd: i was talking of the business model in general, not what eso has. As the model is used for both cases. Also just fyi writing 101. the concept of a / between 2 concepts is short hand for and/or in full writing it would be buy to and/or free to play.