Juhasow wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Magika shouldn't do as much dps as stamina. Magika = better survivability and range
Stamina = more risk high reward

I absolutly disagree, because range only happens with the first shot, then after that, the mobs surround your magicka user and wail on him until he falls down unconscious and bleeding.

Traditionally ranged has tools to kite like teleports/speed/cc immunity and has it's own cc. Good ranged should be able to keep it's distance vs melee, good melee should be able to close the distance between themselves and ranged, etc. It should be a toss-up when players are equally skilled, with a lot of gap closers and gap openers used on either side.

If you really think ranged only happens with the first few abilities, then (and I don't like saying this) you probably need to l2p ranged a bit better.

There has to be proper reward for being in melee in both pvp and pvp considering the risk. Melee gets mechanics, melee gets targeted first by enemy players as they're the most visible, etc. For that reason they usually have higher dps, higher single target dps, or a much greater potential for burst dps while they get in, get some dps in/snag a kill or two, and get out.

I have a looooot of experience pvping in MMOs playing both ranged and melee and when a good balance is struck between the two, things get a lot more interesting and a lot more fun. What I don't want to see is dps/mitigation basically being equal and no real incentive for ranged to kite, facetanking like melee instead because there's no reason not to.

More on topic, the discussion in this thread is pretty disappointing. The focus should be on the 55k 6m dummy parse, not a 3m cheese parse. Obviously things have changed with today's patch, but I'd still like to see some parses from today.

This game does not have so called "range". Especially in PvP. It is really difficult or next to impossible to keep someone at a range when they have gapclosers or speed to close in on you faster than you can back away. Of course the only exception to this would be NBs. And more often than not, recent PvE contents also do punish range more than melee and for healing reasons, people still tend to stick close to each other anyways. Melee is not in anymore risk than range. Applying this "melee is more at risk than ranged" logic, light armor templars and DKs should have the highest dps of all because light armor = paper thin = even more risk than medium armor.

Please go clear HM Fang Lair and Scalecaller as well as no death and tell me what setup was easier. Ranged or melee DPS.

Here is a hint. There is indeed risk to reward here.

I have both HM , no deaths on stamsorc and it wasnt hard as all. I did it also partially on stamplar , stam nb and stamwarden just for fun. As the matter on fact in Fang Lair HM it was easier with stamina DD's since we just bursted through the mechanics at some point.

Dreyloch wrote: »

In terms of balance....

Everyone thinks they should be able to bring w/e character they want, and expect all things to be equal for DPS. IMO, you need to bring the best tool for the job. Would you try to modify a hammer to cut a slice of bread? Why do that, when you can use a knife. Sure, I suppose you could turn it into an Axe. It'll still get the job done, but still not as good as a knife, and is no longer a hammer.

I think most any regular trial based guild is going to have players that bring the classes needed for trials. Great trial guilds will have members that have multiple toons based on the content they're facing and who's online for the other roles. Believe it or not, the same goes for tight PvP guilds.

PvP guild leader: Please log on your Sorc tonight. I know you wanna play your NB, but we need Negates
Little Johnny: But he's a stam sorc, and my NB has that new proc set
PvP guild leader: You can still DPS, but we really need your negate
Little Johnny: Ok, but DPS is gonna be lower....
PvP guild leader: Less DPS perhaps, but we'll have their healers silenced...

So these days it's good to level up some other classes. Bring the best tool for the job.... and stop whining about wanting to play only one particular class all the damn time lol.

HuawaSepp wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Magika shouldn't do as much dps as stamina. Magika = better survivability and range
Stamina = more risk high reward

I absolutly disagree, because range only happens with the first shot, then after that, the mobs surround your magicka user and wail on him until he falls down unconscious and bleeding.

Traditionally ranged has tools to kite like teleports/speed/cc immunity and has it's own cc. Good ranged should be able to keep it's distance vs melee, good melee should be able to close the distance between themselves and ranged, etc. It should be a toss-up when players are equally skilled, with a lot of gap closers and gap openers used on either side.

If you really think ranged only happens with the first few abilities, then (and I don't like saying this) you probably need to l2p ranged a bit better.

There has to be proper reward for being in melee in both pvp and pvp considering the risk. Melee gets mechanics, melee gets targeted first by enemy players as they're the most visible, etc. For that reason they usually have higher dps, higher single target dps, or a much greater potential for burst dps while they get in, get some dps in/snag a kill or two, and get out.

I have a looooot of experience pvping in MMOs playing both ranged and melee and when a good balance is struck between the two, things get a lot more interesting and a lot more fun. What I don't want to see is dps/mitigation basically being equal and no real incentive for ranged to kite, facetanking like melee instead because there's no reason not to.

More on topic, the discussion in this thread is pretty disappointing. The focus should be on the 55k 6m dummy parse, not a 3m cheese parse. Obviously things have changed with today's patch, but I'd still like to see some parses from today.

Well on the patched pts my selfbuffed results were:


And on the 6M dummy with a 'sustain forever setup'


You can clearly see if you do a selfbuffed parse on a dummy with ∞ life you won't even hit the 60k.
For harder trials just switch ele drain with shield and for craglorn trials switch ele drain with destructive touch.

Really wish I could translate your parse results. Trying to raise my DPS to yours and unsure where I am missing at this point.

I use this skill bar:

It's important to know the priority of your skills in case more skills share the same cooldown at a point.
In my opinion the priorities are:

1. Elemental Drain (instead you may slot Harness Magicka or Destructive Clench)
2. Merciless Resolve
3. Elemental Blockade
4. Twisting Path
5. Impale
6. Crippling Grasp
7. Rearming Trap
8. Siphoning Attacks
9. Destructive Clench (if slotted)
10. Elemental Weapon

You also should know if your max damage of the skills is as high as mine.
I recommend you to test this on Elemental Weapon.
Use my gear and cp setup, buff yourself, debuff the dummy, don't forget the berserk glyph proc and apply soul harvest.
Then spam Elemental Weapon and the crits should be as high as mine.
If they are lower you miss on something crucial, maybe a passive.