Magblade dominating 70.9k DPS parse on PTS...!! (updated)

BigBadVolk · April 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

Kreshja wrote: »

I screenshot DPS tests video titles (by April 27th 2018) on Youtube although didn't check the detail builds and test environments, but I think it is saying a lot even by just generally looking across the board. To those who argue that all classes can achieve similar competitive level, wouldn't a class that can consistantly pull 2k more DPS already considered a lot and better for endgame content, and now seems like NB can pull on average 4k more. About cheesing the test, I don't think all the testers of a certain class reached agreement on whether to cheese or not while seems like cheesing should only apply to the crazy high numbers, so I still think these videos tell more or less a compelling story about balance. Hope more PTSers could do more DPS tests. Also updated in OP:

1. Dragonknight:
- stamDK 44k

- magDK 45k

- magDK 45.8k

2. Nightblade:
- magNB 43k (PTS first day)

- magNB 50.9k

- magNB 50-52k

- magNB 52k

- magNB 54k

- magNB 55k/60k

- magNB 57.8k

- magNB 65.7k

- magNB 68.7k

- magNB 70.9k

3. Sorcerer:
- magSorc 45.2k

- magSorc 43.3k

- magSorc 46k

- magSorc 46.2k

- magSorc 47k

- stamSorc 50k (Bow/Bow build)

4. Templar:
- magPlar 45k

5. Warden:
- magWarden 42k

- magWarden 47.7k

6. As a fun comparison, Bash Only build for 34.1k

That literally proves nothing and have no point tbh. Some of these parses are selfbuffed some are not some are cheesed others are not. I dont see any point of bringing it up altogether.

yes this video is kinda on the same level of the sorc one back in homestead its cheddar all over, I mean ye 60-70k on dummy bosses will be available thanks to LA buff (if it stays this way and they dont tone it down) and the psijic skill line/force pulse/FH but on dummy bosses FP and Imbue will be better
in places with harder mechanics like vAS and vCR

Nifty2g · April 2018

Kreshja wrote: »

I screenshot DPS tests video titles (by April 27th 2018) on Youtube although didn't check the detail builds and test environments, but I think it is saying a lot even by just generally looking across the board. To those who argue that all classes can achieve similar competitive level, wouldn't a class that can consistantly pull 2k more DPS already considered a lot and better for endgame content, and now seems like NB can pull on average 4k more. About cheesing the test, I don't think all the testers of a certain class reached agreement on whether to cheese or not while seems like cheesing should only apply to the crazy high numbers, so I still think these videos tell more or less a compelling story about balance. Hope more PTSers could do more DPS tests. Also updated in OP:

1. Dragonknight:
- stamDK 44k

- magDK 45k

- magDK 45.8k

2. Nightblade:
- magNB 43k (PTS first day)

- magNB 50.9k

- magNB 50-52k

- magNB 52k

- magNB 54k

- magNB 55k/60k

- magNB 57.8k

- magNB 65.7k

- magNB 68.7k

- magNB 70.9k

3. Sorcerer:
- magSorc 45.2k

- magSorc 43.3k

- magSorc 46k

- magSorc 46.2k

- magSorc 47k

- stamSorc 50k (Bow/Bow build)

4. Templar:
- magPlar 45k

5. Warden:
- magWarden 42k

- magWarden 47.7k

6. As a fun comparison, Bash Only build for 34.1k

Are you forgetting nightblades have access to minor berserk and the others don’t in their self buffed tests

What a waste of time this is lol

Maulkin · April 2018

reprosal wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

One problem with these videos that I see is that you cannot tell if they are running ability altering weapons, nor can you tell what armor sets they are using, monster sets, enchantments, etc. So, is it the class that is so great, or is it a build (armor, weapons, jewelry, enchants, etc) that that is enabling the user to get these numbers? If it's the build, then perhaps other classes can use the same or similar build to get similar numbers.

That being said, I think most of us know by now that it's pretty easy to cheese up dummy parses.

I mean you can easily see the test is with Mechanical Acuity, Zaan and most certainly vMA firestaff on backbar.

ecru wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Kreshja wrote: »

Saw this on Youtube, keywords: Summerset PTS, Self-Buffed, Magblade, 3M Dummy, 70.9k DPS!!!
https://youtu.be/f9_kidQ2gHU

Searching for more Summerset DPS/PTS videos on Youtube will yield:
DK: a few magDK videos around 42k-45k DPS;
Sorc: a few magSorc videos around 43k-47k DPS;
Templar: N/A;
Warden: one magWarden video with 42k DPS (using Bear Ult);
Nightblade: most videos are lower than 70.9k but all above the 50k mark and sit around mid 50k~60k.
There is a lack of Stam DPS parses.

Nightblade benefits from the LA buff so more consistent with the hard hitting Spectral Bow, while having 2 class dots and 1 Desto dot, then an execute with fast animation and high number, all on top of good utility skills such as Siphon Attack for sustain, Merciless Resolve and Soul Harvest to even boost damage by a fat margin.
On the lower end of the spectrum, it seems that the buff to LA and having Psijic order new skills make magWarden more viable but still can't compete with other classes.

If LA becomes the norm main spammable as the core damage skill, all classes will become very similar in terms of playstyle, except maybe DK still using whip with more utility and class dots are also close range, but may opt for LA if need to range DPS, and pet Sorc may still be an option for content except endgame hardcord trial runs, thus killing the fun of playing different classes. I think instead of tweaking numbers, some skills or even class like Warden need to be redesigned in terms of the mechanics so that each class is more unique in its own way and each skill is more useful.

In Summerset every class on stamina or magicka can pull around 50k+ on 3M dummy and with amount of cheesing like on the video above , even 55k+ . Mag nb is simply one of the best if not the best for 3M dummy cheesing in Summerset. The amount of cheese and tricks used in that 70k parse that will work only for that parse is huge and I think most people dont realize that.

That doesnt change a fact that yes magblade is slightly overperforming and it would be nice to see some tuning down for Merciless Resolve , Impale or Death Stroke.

Strife and Twisting path are already huge nerfed . Impale minor nerfed .
What now ? Merciless Resolve , Death Stroke ? You serious ?

Sorc and DK HA build are simple and effective , I wish my Magblade just drop all DOT and HA .

Yes I am serious. I can also support my seriousness with some tests I've maded on PTS which I dont think so You did.

From purely PvE perspective Strife have decent replacement if it comes to dmg as You can see on parse in the video and if it comes to healing , increased cost seems fair change and deserved nerf which isnt "huge" though. Twisting Path is also far from beeing "huge nerfed" and still pulls decent DPS , one of the best from all other classes ground AoE's. Assasin's Blade in both moprhs is the strongest execute in the game. Cheap , strong , instant cast , starting at 25% with instant 300% dmg buff , easy to weave and when it comes to Impale also range.

So Yes I do think that slight tuning down of Merciless resolve , Impale or Death Stroke would be on place.

My advice for You is to go on PTS test all magicka classes and then come back with some constructive feedback . For now You're looking just like one of those "no because no" people.

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective, and the changes you're suggesting are the kinds of changes that make people quit games. Nerfing abilities because they work too well with one or two sets isn't the way to go, adjusting those sets or the ability's interactions with those sets is the way to do it, unless you want to *** off the entire NB population by nerfing them.

Putting a CD on Master Architect/War Machine is probably the best way to go about it.

Good god. Why not just make the game so you press one key to do everything for you at this point rather than attempt to keep buff uptimes synced.

I'm sure the point you were trying to make make sounded awesome in your head. At least I hope so. Didn't come out so well though

Alcast · April 2018

1. Cheese
2. Prolly prebuffed with other sets and gearswap addon
3. More cheese

To get reliable results, one dude should have to do all the tests with all setups. So we know same things apply to each of the parses.

IZZEFlameLash · April 2018

MNB seems so dead.

HuawaSepp · April 2018

The only thing I could tell is that the Imbue Weapons skill needs a dmg nerf.
I don't think it's healthy for the game that the one and only best spammable is behind a paywall.

I can explain the cheesing behind the NB dps numbers:
- you first use a pot and wait a bit for the cooldown
- apply buffs and dots/ults that not instantly trigger the dummy
- recast your dots on cooldown, if done right Acuity will proc after the weapon swap and you cast 1 bow and 4 spammables
- less than 30% life => recast blockade + zaan proc; ult + Acuity proc afer swap; spectral bow => less than 25% life => spam the finisher 4 or 5 times.

It's only the short overbuffed finishing phase that grants you that high dps. In longer fights Magblade isn't that strong.

Just try it out a few times.
If you miss on more than 2 LAs or a barswap, stop the fight and reload UI.
One try takes ~2min.

For cheesing I only took:
- max food
- 47 cp in erosion
- lover

That was my selfbuffed result with Imbue Weapons. I really can't imagine 70k+ dps is possible without other buffs.

Sugaroverdose · April 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Magika shouldn't do as much dps as stamina. Magika = better survivability and range

Stamina = more risk high reward

Stamina is zero risk since forever.

Tirps · April 2018

Jesus, the power creep is real..

Onefrkncrzypope · April 2018

8 mnbs scaling from my friend's percentage in group will kill any 50mil boss in 66 seconds.

reprosal · April 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

One problem with these videos that I see is that you cannot tell if they are running ability altering weapons, nor can you tell what armor sets they are using, monster sets, enchantments, etc. So, is it the class that is so great, or is it a build (armor, weapons, jewelry, enchants, etc) that that is enabling the user to get these numbers? If it's the build, then perhaps other classes can use the same or similar build to get similar numbers.

That being said, I think most of us know by now that it's pretty easy to cheese up dummy parses.

I mean you can easily see the test is with Mechanical Acuity, Zaan and most certainly vMA firestaff on backbar.

ecru wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Kreshja wrote: »

Saw this on Youtube, keywords: Summerset PTS, Self-Buffed, Magblade, 3M Dummy, 70.9k DPS!!!
https://youtu.be/f9_kidQ2gHU

Searching for more Summerset DPS/PTS videos on Youtube will yield:
DK: a few magDK videos around 42k-45k DPS;
Sorc: a few magSorc videos around 43k-47k DPS;
Templar: N/A;
Warden: one magWarden video with 42k DPS (using Bear Ult);
Nightblade: most videos are lower than 70.9k but all above the 50k mark and sit around mid 50k~60k.
There is a lack of Stam DPS parses.

Nightblade benefits from the LA buff so more consistent with the hard hitting Spectral Bow, while having 2 class dots and 1 Desto dot, then an execute with fast animation and high number, all on top of good utility skills such as Siphon Attack for sustain, Merciless Resolve and Soul Harvest to even boost damage by a fat margin.
On the lower end of the spectrum, it seems that the buff to LA and having Psijic order new skills make magWarden more viable but still can't compete with other classes.

If LA becomes the norm main spammable as the core damage skill, all classes will become very similar in terms of playstyle, except maybe DK still using whip with more utility and class dots are also close range, but may opt for LA if need to range DPS, and pet Sorc may still be an option for content except endgame hardcord trial runs, thus killing the fun of playing different classes. I think instead of tweaking numbers, some skills or even class like Warden need to be redesigned in terms of the mechanics so that each class is more unique in its own way and each skill is more useful.

In Summerset every class on stamina or magicka can pull around 50k+ on 3M dummy and with amount of cheesing like on the video above , even 55k+ . Mag nb is simply one of the best if not the best for 3M dummy cheesing in Summerset. The amount of cheese and tricks used in that 70k parse that will work only for that parse is huge and I think most people dont realize that.

That doesnt change a fact that yes magblade is slightly overperforming and it would be nice to see some tuning down for Merciless Resolve , Impale or Death Stroke.

Strife and Twisting path are already huge nerfed . Impale minor nerfed .
What now ? Merciless Resolve , Death Stroke ? You serious ?

Sorc and DK HA build are simple and effective , I wish my Magblade just drop all DOT and HA .

Yes I am serious. I can also support my seriousness with some tests I've maded on PTS which I dont think so You did.

From purely PvE perspective Strife have decent replacement if it comes to dmg as You can see on parse in the video and if it comes to healing , increased cost seems fair change and deserved nerf which isnt "huge" though. Twisting Path is also far from beeing "huge nerfed" and still pulls decent DPS , one of the best from all other classes ground AoE's. Assasin's Blade in both moprhs is the strongest execute in the game. Cheap , strong , instant cast , starting at 25% with instant 300% dmg buff , easy to weave and when it comes to Impale also range.

So Yes I do think that slight tuning down of Merciless resolve , Impale or Death Stroke would be on place.

My advice for You is to go on PTS test all magicka classes and then come back with some constructive feedback . For now You're looking just like one of those "no because no" people.

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective, and the changes you're suggesting are the kinds of changes that make people quit games. Nerfing abilities because they work too well with one or two sets isn't the way to go, adjusting those sets or the ability's interactions with those sets is the way to do it, unless you want to *** off the entire NB population by nerfing them.

Putting a CD on Master Architect/War Machine is probably the best way to go about it.

Good god. Why not just make the game so you press one key to do everything for you at this point rather than attempt to keep buff uptimes synced.

I'm sure the point you were trying to make make sounded awesome in your head. At least I hope so. Didn't come out so well though

What I am trying to get at is a PvE rotation should have a benefit of a little bit of experience knowing when to pop soul harvest for your next acuity proc uptime. The way people are complaining about buffs and nerfs everything will just be a static boost. How boring is that?

coplannb16_ESO · April 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Magika shouldn't do as much dps as stamina. Magika = better survivability and range

Stamina = more risk high reward

then mDK should have the best damage of all: melee range wearing a dress

FThisIWantALongerNam · April 2018

this was cheesed by pre-buffing with Jorvulds+acceleration morph, 50 seconds of minor force
Also his house is in Craglorn, he had the Craglorn damage buff (conveniently scrolled down in parse screenshot to not show this)
Obvious cheese is obvious
(that said, 65k mNB with raid setup is possible/being done, just not the 70k shown here)

Harrdarrzarr · April 2018

HuawaSepp wrote: »

The only thing I could tell is that the Imbue Weapons skill needs a dmg nerf.
I don't think it's healthy for the game that the one and only best spammable is behind a paywall.

I can explain the cheesing behind the NB dps numbers:
- you first use a pot and wait a bit for the cooldown
- apply buffs and dots/ults that not instantly trigger the dummy
- recast your dots on cooldown, if done right Acuity will proc after the weapon swap and you cast 1 bow and 4 spammables
- less than 30% life => recast blockade + zaan proc; ult + Acuity proc afer swap; spectral bow => less than 25% life => spam the finisher 4 or 5 times.

It's only the short overbuffed finishing phase that grants you that high dps. In longer fights Magblade isn't that strong.

Just try it out a few times.
If you miss on more than 2 LAs or a barswap, stop the fight and reload UI.
One try takes ~2min.

For cheesing I only took:
- max food
- 47 cp in erosion
- lover

That was my selfbuffed result with Imbue Weapons. I really can't imagine 70k+ dps is possible without other buffs.

You fought a 3mil dummy and you're magicka drain is 1,5x your magicka regen. Were you completely out of magicka at the end of your parse?

Juhasow · April 2018

FThisIWantALongerNam wrote: »

this was cheesed by pre-buffing with Jorvulds+acceleration morph, 50 seconds of minor force
Also his house is in Craglorn, he had the Craglorn damage buff (conveniently scrolled down in parse screenshot to not show this)
Obvious cheese is obvious
(that said, 65k mNB with raid setup is possible/being done, just not the 70k shown here)

On specific trial bosses 70k+ will be possible.

Nephilim_NL · April 2018

Or.. Target dummies are in no way a representation of how a class performs in trials. Nightblades post incredible dummy parses due to all the buffs the class has, but when the other classes get the same buffs (e.d. with Combat prayer etc) as said Nightblades, they perform similarly. I worry more about the lack of love the Templar and Warden got until now. Let's see if the balance changes will bring a healthier difference or similarity in power.

FThisIWantALongerNam · April 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

FThisIWantALongerNam wrote: »

this was cheesed by pre-buffing with Jorvulds+acceleration morph, 50 seconds of minor force
Also his house is in Craglorn, he had the Craglorn damage buff (conveniently scrolled down in parse screenshot to not show this)
Obvious cheese is obvious
(that said, 65k mNB with raid setup is possible/being done, just not the 70k shown here)

On specific trial bosses 70k+ will be possible.

Definitely, more than that even, what I mean is that people have done 65k SOLO using raid CP/gear, but the 70k parse above was cheese with Jorvulds+acceleration+Craglorn buff, that's all... its dummy cheese, that's all I'm pointing out.

reprosal · April 2018

Harrdarrzarr wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

The only thing I could tell is that the Imbue Weapons skill needs a dmg nerf.
I don't think it's healthy for the game that the one and only best spammable is behind a paywall.

I can explain the cheesing behind the NB dps numbers:
- you first use a pot and wait a bit for the cooldown
- apply buffs and dots/ults that not instantly trigger the dummy
- recast your dots on cooldown, if done right Acuity will proc after the weapon swap and you cast 1 bow and 4 spammables
- less than 30% life => recast blockade + zaan proc; ult + Acuity proc afer swap; spectral bow => less than 25% life => spam the finisher 4 or 5 times.

It's only the short overbuffed finishing phase that grants you that high dps. In longer fights Magblade isn't that strong.

Just try it out a few times.
If you miss on more than 2 LAs or a barswap, stop the fight and reload UI.
One try takes ~2min.

For cheesing I only took:
- max food
- 47 cp in erosion
- lover

That was my selfbuffed result with Imbue Weapons. I really can't imagine 70k+ dps is possible without other buffs.

You fought a 3mil dummy and you're magicka drain is 1,5x your magicka regen. Were you completely out of magicka at the end of your parse?

I think my highest non cheese is 46.5k.
This makes me feel very weak now..

HuawaSepp · April 2018

Harrdarrzarr wrote: »

You fought a 3mil dummy and you're magicka drain is 1,5x your magicka regen. Were you completely out of magicka at the end of your parse?

Yeah, I didn't use Siphoning Attacks on purpose.
Usually you slot Rearming Trap instead of Inner Light on your backbar.
On live you can sustain a LA rotation with only these two skills and Strife as spammable like forever in a raid buffed scenario.

The skills I used were the same as the guy with 71k used. To be more comparable.
With Trap on backbar I get about 66k selfbuffed.

Fallewarrior · April 2018

ITT

People don't understand how dummy fights work and what cheesing means.

All you see is, Omg 70k dps, NB BROKEN AFFFFF.
While in reality it took 2 different sets before fight to prebuff & a craglorn damage buff.

Most classes don't have access to minor berserk, so ofc they will parse lower.

Just stop bothering with commenting on balance in this game if you have no clue about classes and balance in general.

Akimbro · April 2018

Did you even look at the video? Or did you just see the 70k and come straight to the forums?

It’s a cheesed parse on a 3 mil dummy. It means nothing. These numbers don’t translate over to dps in a trial...

luen79rwb17_ESO · April 2018

So in conclusion take your NBs to dungeons and MSA. Oh wait, it's been like that like forever!

NyassaV · April 2018

This thing is so click bait

Masel · April 2018

3 million dummies say nothing. Go do a centurion on all classes, selfbuffed, factor in minor berserk and THEN complain. That's what annoys me the most about new patches. People do burst parses all day and don't care whether the setup is actually usable in a trial environment. I could do 47k instead of 41k on PTS on my warden too if I cheese it with zaan, blue food and lover mundus but what's the point? I won't use it in groups anyway...

Lucky28 · May 2018

ascan7 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Strife nerf killed mNB

I think that many protested not because the increased cost killed mNB, but because it was a dumb nerf that didn't weaken NB DPS at all, but just made them switch spammable and deal the same damage.

Switched spammables and got more damage actually. but they play like a damn sorc now. which is the main reason i'm super salty about that purposed (still holding out hope they'll revert it) cost increase.

waitwhat · May 2018

reprosal wrote: »

Haha. Warden and Templar pretty much don’t exist in PvE now and with minor fracture being covered by sunder, templar is even more in the ground.

Well, between the two of them they do have a monopoly on end-game healing. Once that monopoly is soundly broken more people might be sympathetic to their DPS plight. It's not like my stamblade can compete for a healer spot.

JobooAGS · May 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

3 million dummies say nothing. Go do a centurion on all classes, selfbuffed, factor in minor berserk and THEN complain. That's what annoys me the most about new patches. People do burst parses all day and don't care whether the setup is actually usable in a trial environment. I could do 47k instead of 41k on PTS on my warden too if I cheese it with zaan, blue food and lover mundus but what's the point? I won't use it in groups anyway...

This!!

waitwhat · May 2018

XGCAlbatr0ss wrote: »

I think its funny how last year, about this time right before morrowind. PVE Nightblades were non existent except for a select few and most people were stating, NB's need a buff for PVE please please please. Now that the NB's have gotten the tweaks and buffs, everyone is calling for them to be nerfed. I dont get it sometimes with people on the forums. Its crazy.

LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE WHO SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN THEN TOO.

waitwhat · May 2018

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Magika shouldn't do as much dps as stamina. Magika = better survivability and range

Stamina = more risk high reward

Stamina is zero risk since forever.

@Sugaroverdose

Completely false.

Stamina only became end-game viable shortly after Morrowind was released. Prior to that cloak only reduced 20% of AoE damage, and all the craglorn trials + vMoL, were designed to strongly favor builds with shields and range. Ev

With Morrowind, several things changed to justify the risk of bringing in stamina builds. Mag DPS went down enough that it became more worthwhile to bring stamina builds into end-game PvE from a numbers perspective. Blade cloak received a significant damage mitigation buff, going up to 25%. Halls of Fabrication was explicitly designed to disadvantage magicka builds with lightning that saps only magicka.

Because of those changes, we went from groups of 8 magsorcs to 4 mag and 4 stam.

You clearly didn't play stam then, so you must not remember what life after One Tamriel was like for us. I did, and I will never forget it.

ezio45 · May 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Magika shouldn't do as much dps as stamina. Magika = better survivability and range

Stamina = more risk high reward

I dont like the stam vs mag argument. They both have good damage and surviability they just get it in different ways.

-Stam has higher natural surviability with resistance and they have blade clock to resist their incoming damage that is up easily through their rotation.It cant be ate through

- mag has low resistance and have shields that expire before their rotation is up and can get ate up even before there 6 seconds timer

stamina is more consistent build, they have damage and survuabilty that is constant and both happen together. magicka is inconsistent when your spamming shields your not doing max damage and if your doing max damage your losing uptime on shields

neither is bad, I have stam and mag charachters I that i both enjoy playing. Its just a trade off you have to make, then you trade more with class selection. stam blade has more damage and less survivability, stamdks have less damage and more survivabilty

reprosal · May 2018

waitwhat wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Haha. Warden and Templar pretty much don’t exist in PvE now and with minor fracture being covered by sunder, templar is even more in the ground.

Well, between the two of them they do have a monopoly on end-game healing. Once that monopoly is soundly broken more people might be sympathetic to their DPS plight. It's not like my stamblade can compete for a healer spot.

Totally not even comparing apples to apples...

That's like saying DK shouldn't be a DPS at all since it has been the staple tank in the game.