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Unofficial Imbue Weapon Discussion
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casparian✭✭✭✭✭
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You've discovered that Overload is overpowered on the PTS.DanteMR1995 wrote: »I've been testing elemental weapon, mage's light(empower), with overload in PvE, and I've managed over 80k with a light attack from overload + crystal frag proc. If you include my set proc, it deals about 100k damage. I hope they reduce light attack damage slightly, nerf empower to 30% instead of 40%, or slightly reduce elemental weapon, as this is really op. My only complaint about the skill itself is that there is no animation when in overload, so you cast it, but can't perform any action for like 1.2 seconds, so it's hard to time when you can actually perform actions again. Sometimes I've missed the 2 second window for light attacking because of this lack of animation.
Your proposed solution is to nerf everything but Overload, adversely affecting every other class in order to bring one niche Sorc ult into line.
Seems better to me to nerf Overload.7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.15 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
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If I remember, on a 0 cp naked character with absolutely no passive or attribute, the damage of the two morph at level 1 are the same.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ezeepeezee wrote: »I haven't tested, but my thoughts on the stam version:
- Lower tooltip than Wrecking Blow, with a similar amount of time required to execute (however it isn't as easily avoided)
- No CC like Wrecking Blow
- Heal is pathetic on a stam toon with 25k health avg (25000*.15=3750/2=1875) (divide by 2 for Cyrodiil healing debuff)
- 2h light attacks are being nerfed already, so using this would be even more pointless
- On DW it might be okay, but then I'm stuck using a magicka ability for CC (unless on stamplar w/ jav)
That's pretty much the healing Strife does on Magblade
It is? Isnt Strife 25% and every 2s for 10s. While Crushing is 15%, once.
Also the images are wrong, the tooltips will be same on any mag/stam build with same stats.2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If only the duration of the buff was 2.5” or 3”...you would do some nasty nasty stuff with Overload.
Magelight-Curse-Imbue-Cage-Overload.EU | PC | AD0 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm pretty sure that's exactly why the buff is as low as it is. Cage + Overload is already broken on the PTS without adding in Imbue.If only the duration of the buff was 2.5” or 3”...you would do some nasty nasty stuff with Overload.
Magelight-Curse-Imbue-Cage-Overload.Edited by casparian on April 26, 2018 3:29PM7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.1 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ezeepeezee wrote: »I haven't tested, but my thoughts on the stam version:
- Lower tooltip than Wrecking Blow, with a similar amount of time required to execute (however it isn't as easily avoided)
- No CC like Wrecking Blow
- Heal is pathetic on a stam toon with 25k health avg (25000*.15=3750/2=1875) (divide by 2 for Cyrodiil healing debuff)
- 2h light attacks are being nerfed already, so using this would be even more pointless
- On DW it might be okay, but then I'm stuck using a magicka ability for CC (unless on stamplar w/ jav)
That's pretty much the healing Strife does on Magblade
It is? Isnt Strife 25% and every 2s for 10s. While Crushing is 15%, once.
Also the images are wrong, the tooltips will be same on any mag/stam build with same stats.
Ok, thanks. The number read for healing done is like 900. Strife heals you for about 1k but most the time slightly less down to 800 or 900. Both these numbers have Cyrodiil in mindFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
TimeDazzler✭✭✭✭✭I agree with what most have said, the secondary effect of the stamina morph seems underwhelming especially from a PvP aspect. They should give it a fraction of the original damage as aoe damage around the light attack similar to the 2H execute morph.PC NA
Characters:Aldmeri Dominion Champion - Stamina Warden - AD
Tımë Ðâzzłër - Magicka Nightblade - AD
Ðazzler - Stamina Arcanist - AD
Sugar Deady - Magicka Necromancer - AD
Sprint v X - Stamina Sorcerer - EP
Tımë Ðâzzlër Ðk - Stamina Dragonknight - EP
Tımë Ðâzzłêr - Stamina Templar - DC
Time Dazzler - Magicka Warden - DC1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
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You've discovered that Overload is overpowered on the PTS.DanteMR1995 wrote: »I've been testing elemental weapon, mage's light(empower), with overload in PvE, and I've managed over 80k with a light attack from overload + crystal frag proc. If you include my set proc, it deals about 100k damage. I hope they reduce light attack damage slightly, nerf empower to 30% instead of 40%, or slightly reduce elemental weapon, as this is really op. My only complaint about the skill itself is that there is no animation when in overload, so you cast it, but can't perform any action for like 1.2 seconds, so it's hard to time when you can actually perform actions again. Sometimes I've missed the 2 second window for light attacking because of this lack of animation.
Your proposed solution is to nerf everything but Overload, adversely affecting every other class in order to bring one niche Sorc ult into line.
Seems better to me to nerf Overload.
Or, you know, don't nerf a niche Sorc ult any further into niche-ness and just stop it interacting with imbue and/or empower?5 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭themaddaedra wrote: »The tooltips for Elemental Weapon and Force Pulse, on exactly the same setup for magsorc.
Force Pulse: 2860+2860+2962 = 8682 (Costs 2295 magicka)
Elemental Weapon: 8654 (Costs 1890 magicka)
Force Pulse does AOE damage, and it's direct cast without being bound to anything else. With Perfected Asylum, you put all 3 status affects every 2nd cast of FP, with Non-Perfected it takes 3 casts.
Elemental Weapon puts one random status affect on every cast, that's no way close to Perfected Asylum's guaranteed 3 status effects in 2 casts, and it's not even equal to Non-Perfected Asylum because affects are random.
Elemental Weapon triggers Spell Orb passive from Psijic Order skill line, which gives like 0,7k more dps on dummy. In trial environment there will be a lot of stuff going on, so most likely these orb stacks will be lost in many cases, and even if not, it basically gives nothing.
My personal conclusion: Elemental Weapon and FP have quite similar aspects, with Ele Weapon being slightly disadvantaged, therefore less costed.
I love the animation and diversity that comes with this skill.
Good analysis, it only misses one point: you HAVE to slot force pulse (or some Destro skill) to get the 8% damage bonus on that bar.
I really wish they would remove this requirement altogether, sort of like the twin and blunt skill for dual wield.2 -
ezeepeezee✭✭✭✭ezeepeezee wrote: »I haven't tested, but my thoughts on the stam version:
- Lower tooltip than Wrecking Blow, with a similar amount of time required to execute (however it isn't as easily avoided)
- No CC like Wrecking Blow
- Heal is pathetic on a stam toon with 25k health avg (25000*.15=3750/2=1875) (divide by 2 for Cyrodiil healing debuff)
- 2h light attacks are being nerfed already, so using this would be even more pointless
- On DW it might be okay, but then I'm stuck using a magicka ability for CC (unless on stamplar w/ jav)
That's pretty much the healing Strife does on Magblade
Strife is 25% of the damage 5x over 10s. Not even close? Also sorry if that's inaccurate, looking at a website as I'm at work.1 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭themaddaedra wrote: »The tooltips for Elemental Weapon and Force Pulse, on exactly the same setup for magsorc.
Force Pulse: 2860+2860+2962 = 8682 (Costs 2295 magicka)
Elemental Weapon: 8654 (Costs 1890 magicka)
Force Pulse does AOE damage, and it's direct cast without being bound to anything else. With Perfected Asylum, you put all 3 status affects every 2nd cast of FP, with Non-Perfected it takes 3 casts.
Elemental Weapon puts one random status affect on every cast, that's no way close to Perfected Asylum's guaranteed 3 status effects in 2 casts, and it's not even equal to Non-Perfected Asylum because affects are random.
Elemental Weapon triggers Spell Orb passive from Psijic Order skill line, which gives like 0,7k more dps on dummy. In trial environment there will be a lot of stuff going on, so most likely these orb stacks will be lost in many cases, and even if not, it basically gives nothing.
My personal conclusion: Elemental Weapon and FP have quite similar aspects, with Ele Weapon being slightly disadvantaged, therefore less costed.
I love the animation and diversity that comes with this skill.
Good analysis, it only misses one point: you HAVE to slot force pulse (or some Destro skill) to get the 8% damage bonus on that bar.
I really wish they would remove this requirement altogether, sort of like the twin and blunt skill for dual wield.
One bar destro ult, other bar blockade and you got your passive dmg increase. It is not like you have to slot Force Pulse now.Edited by Rianai on April 26, 2018 5:02PM1 -
themaddaedra✭✭✭✭✭
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You've discovered that Overload is overpowered on the PTS.DanteMR1995 wrote: »I've been testing elemental weapon, mage's light(empower), with overload in PvE, and I've managed over 80k with a light attack from overload + crystal frag proc. If you include my set proc, it deals about 100k damage. I hope they reduce light attack damage slightly, nerf empower to 30% instead of 40%, or slightly reduce elemental weapon, as this is really op. My only complaint about the skill itself is that there is no animation when in overload, so you cast it, but can't perform any action for like 1.2 seconds, so it's hard to time when you can actually perform actions again. Sometimes I've missed the 2 second window for light attacking because of this lack of animation.
Your proposed solution is to nerf everything but Overload, adversely affecting every other class in order to bring one niche Sorc ult into line.
Seems better to me to nerf Overload.
10/10 true. As a magsorc main, i don't really care if they nerf Overload or not, as it's nothing but a pain in the arse for PvE. So full of bugs and delays, you just can't make any use of it. And if that comes to be OP for PvP, just nerf it, leave the diversity alone.themaddaedra wrote: »The tooltips for Elemental Weapon and Force Pulse, on exactly the same setup for magsorc.
Force Pulse: 2860+2860+2962 = 8682 (Costs 2295 magicka)
Elemental Weapon: 8654 (Costs 1890 magicka)
Force Pulse does AOE damage, and it's direct cast without being bound to anything else. With Perfected Asylum, you put all 3 status affects every 2nd cast of FP, with Non-Perfected it takes 3 casts.
Elemental Weapon puts one random status affect on every cast, that's no way close to Perfected Asylum's guaranteed 3 status effects in 2 casts, and it's not even equal to Non-Perfected Asylum because affects are random.
Elemental Weapon triggers Spell Orb passive from Psijic Order skill line, which gives like 0,7k more dps on dummy. In trial environment there will be a lot of stuff going on, so most likely these orb stacks will be lost in many cases, and even if not, it basically gives nothing.
My personal conclusion: Elemental Weapon and FP have quite similar aspects, with Ele Weapon being slightly disadvantaged, therefore less costed.
I love the animation and diversity that comes with this skill.
Good analysis, it only misses one point: you HAVE to slot force pulse (or some Destro skill) to get the 8% damage bonus on that bar.
I really wish they would remove this requirement altogether, sort of like the twin and blunt skill for dual wield.
I actually put ele drain for both screenshots to make sure numbers are true, but yes that's really something. It's same with petsorc, i put destro ulti on main bar for that /PC|EU0 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not very optimistic about this skil. It only buffs 1 light attack per cast. Each cast wastes 1 GCD.
Seems like a waste of a skill slot to me. If it had a runtime of 10+ seconds and buffed all light attacks in that window, it would be more usefulBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »I'm not very optimistic about this skil. It only buffs 1 light attack per cast. Each cast wastes 1 GCD.
As every other spammable in the game.
It's not a LA buff, it's a pure spammable who need a weaved LA. Do not see it as a sub-buff you place on a LA between your classic spammable.4 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »I'm not very optimistic about this skil. It only buffs 1 light attack per cast. Each cast wastes 1 GCD.
As every other spammable in the game.
It's not a LA buff, it's a pure spammable who need a weaved LA. Do not see it as a sub-buff you place on a LA between your classic spammable.
Seems weak for a spammable, at least from Alcast's video. I didn't check his sd/max magicka stats, however.
If its damage is similar to strife then it could be viable.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »Seems weak for a spammable, at least from Alcast's video. I didn't check his sd/max magicka stats, however.
If its damage is similar to strife then it could be viable.
Damage on par with force pulse : slightly lower on an altmer sorcerer, so slighly higher for anyone non altmer/dunmer or non sorc. With less cost but no aoe component and less reliable secondary effect than an asylum weapon.
It seem pretty good for a spammable.3 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Weaving =/= Animation cancel.
Animation cancel also called " Anim cut " isn't that strong, it's when you roll dodge/block during a skill, but it doesn't allow you to cast skill faster ( it's mainly used in PvP to hide some informations to the enemie, so they can't understand what the hell is happening).
We call " weaving " the fact to Light attack before a skill.3 -
seitekisaki✭✭✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »Seems weak for a spammable, at least from Alcast's video. I didn't check his sd/max magicka stats, however.
If its damage is similar to strife then it could be viable.
Damage on par with force pulse : slightly lower on an altmer sorcerer, so slighly higher for anyone non altmer/dunmer or non sorc. With less cost but no aoe component and less reliable secondary effect than an asylum weapon.
It seem pretty good for a spammable.
Its got some pretty interesting interactions with forcepulse as, at least I believe, it always applies the status affects. Letting forcepulse hit the extra damage.0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭seitekisaki wrote: »Its got some pretty interesting interactions with forcepulse as, at least I believe, it always applies the status affects. Letting forcepulse hit the extra damage.
Exactly.
On the other hand, if you manage to get an asylum staff, you'll apply three effect each three (non perfect) or two (perfect) force pulse, which make imbued weapon less appealing (especially because IW apply a totally random effect, so it can apply the same effect again and again without applying the other two).1 -
MaselClass RepresentativeI've had great fun with it on the PTS, but of they don't change asylum staffs to improve them I fear that it'll be elemental weapon or get out...
All other spammables sort of lose to it on the PTS. They really need to decrease the cost of the rest again...PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA0 -
Zaryc✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Weaving =/= Animation cancel.
Animation cancel also called " Anim cut " isn't that strong, it's when you roll dodge/block during a skill, but it doesn't allow you to cast skill faster ( it's mainly used in PvP to hide some informations to the enemie, so they can't understand what the hell is happening).
We call " weaving " the fact to Light attack before a skill.
Cancelling an animation makes the damage go off before the animation is played, that's why it's used in PvP. It makes a huge difference on skills like Executioner with a rather long animation, because the damage comes faster.
You can also cancel the animation with a bash and add some extra damage into one GCD.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Weaving =/= Animation cancel.
Animation cancel also called " Anim cut " isn't that strong, it's when you roll dodge/block during a skill, but it doesn't allow you to cast skill faster ( it's mainly used in PvP to hide some informations to the enemie, so they can't understand what the hell is happening).
We call " weaving " the fact to Light attack before a skill.
Cancelling an animation makes the damage go off before the animation is played, that's why it's used in PvP. It makes a huge difference on skills like Executioner with a rather long animation, because the damage comes faster.
You can also cancel the animation with a bash and add some extra damage into one GCD.
The first paragraph is not true.EU | PC | AD4 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭seitekisaki wrote: »Its got some pretty interesting interactions with forcepulse as, at least I believe, it always applies the status affects. Letting forcepulse hit the extra damage.
Exactly.
On the other hand, if you manage to get an asylum staff, you'll apply three effect each three (non perfect) or two (perfect) force pulse, which make imbued weapon less appealing (especially because IW apply a totally random effect, so it can apply the same effect again and again without applying the other two).
Imperfect Asylum weapons and Imbue each give a guaranteed average of 1 condition per cast. Asylum weapons give perfect control as to which conditions apply when. Imbue applies conditions a little faster. Imbue is probably the more vulnerable of the two to getting your timing messed up and losing the condition-applying benefit.
Asylum weapons require two set slots on one bar to work. Imbue does not. Crushing Shock and Force Pulse each have additional skill benefits that Imbue does not.
Imbue and Force Shock each satisfy requirements for "when ... equipped" kinds of passives.1 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »Imperfect Asylum weapons and Imbue each give a guaranteed average of 1 condition per cast. Asylum weapons give perfect control as to which conditions apply when. Imbue applies conditions a little faster. Imbue is probably the more vulnerable of the two to getting your timing messed up and losing the condition-applying benefit.
Asylum weapons require two set slots on one bar to work. Imbue does not. Crushing Shock and Force Pulse each have additional skill benefits that Imbue does not.
Imbue and Force Shock each satisfy requirements for "when ... equipped" kinds of passives.
Imperfect still guarantee the three effect after three cast, when imbues may have applied only one effect or most probably two.
But you're right : each skill has it's own strength and drawback. That's why for the moment, imbued seem like a real good skill IMO. Not mandatory, not trash, useable without being THE thing.3 -
Zaryc✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Weaving =/= Animation cancel.
Animation cancel also called " Anim cut " isn't that strong, it's when you roll dodge/block during a skill, but it doesn't allow you to cast skill faster ( it's mainly used in PvP to hide some informations to the enemie, so they can't understand what the hell is happening).
We call " weaving " the fact to Light attack before a skill.
Cancelling an animation makes the damage go off before the animation is played, that's why it's used in PvP. It makes a huge difference on skills like Executioner with a rather long animation, because the damage comes faster.
You can also cancel the animation with a bash and add some extra damage into one GCD.
The first paragraph is not true.
Did they change it? Way back in the days you could do this with Dawnbreaker and iirc Crystal Fraggs would also travel faster if you block cancel the animation for example.0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As of this afternoon, you cannot cast Imbue while on your overload bar. With the unreliability of getting in and out of overload, few people will be able to cast Imbue, go into overload, cast empower and then overload attack in the 2 seconds. Too bad, I had planned to bring back the Overload Sorc build, but probably best in the long run. We really don't need 45k light attack tooltips in Cyro on a class with 2 executes.
Imbue performs well, but it feel really awful to weave with.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Weaving =/= Animation cancel.
Animation cancel also called " Anim cut " isn't that strong, it's when you roll dodge/block during a skill, but it doesn't allow you to cast skill faster ( it's mainly used in PvP to hide some informations to the enemie, so they can't understand what the hell is happening).
We call " weaving " the fact to Light attack before a skill.
Cancelling an animation makes the damage go off before the animation is played, that's why it's used in PvP. It makes a huge difference on skills like Executioner with a rather long animation, because the damage comes faster.
You can also cancel the animation with a bash and add some extra damage into one GCD.
The first paragraph is not true.
Did they change it? Way back in the days you could do this with Dawnbreaker and iirc Crystal Fraggs would also travel faster if you block cancel the animation for example.
The animation has absolutely nothing to do with the timing of the calculations. You can hit a dawnbreaker and you'll see corpses on the floor before the shouting and the animation is played out. That's without animation cancelling anything. That's just how some skills work. Animation cancelling simply shortens the time to your next action, so long as that action doesn't violate the cooldowns.
Cancelled frags don't travel any faster or slower.
Edited by Maulkin on April 26, 2018 11:32PMEU | PC | AD2
