If defile is so strong, how come there are still unkillable tanks and other builds? The grass is always greener on the other side, but if I might make a suggestion, go make a defile build and see how you do. You might be surprised at how many players you still can't take down.

LeifErickson wrote: »

Right now on live, defile is way too strong. Almost everywhere you go in Cyrodiil you will get defiled so bad you have no chance to recover.

The amount of defile you can achieve with the cp star is crazy and needs to be toned down a ton. In addition, you can get sniped or dark flared from 30 meters away and now have to deal with a huge defile. If you are going to apply one of the strongest debuffs in the game to someone, you should at least have some risk involved. This doesn't even include sets like Duroks that if you are an aoe centered class you have no way to prevent.

I even started playing my mag sorc again recently so I wouldn't have to deal with how bad defiles are right now. If nothing is changed in regards to this next patch, many classes are going to struggle hard and might even lead to mag sorc dominance (plus all the other classes that can get by with defiles on them, mag sorc was just the one that came to mind).

Agree, defile is way too strong, specially vs classes that dont have great healing to begin with.

Defile is not too strong. Healing and mitigation via Cp are a far greater issue than the befoul Cp node. Defile is a direct counter to builds that don't need offensive capability, so they can spec purely into healing and use all their offensive blue Cp in Elfborn and blessed. Since the vast majority of players prefer to sacrifice damage in favor of survivability and sustain, befoul becomes a necessity to kill many specs.

Now, I only play medium armor stam classes (all 5). I am affected by defile MUCH more severely than any magicka or heavy armor spec. I play pure damage specs, and I can say that healing and mitigation vastly outperform the amount of damage you can get through cp. The only way to kill some of these pure tanky/healing specs is to defile them. If defile is reduced, then both blessed and quick recovery should be as well (there are other things like the argonian passives in tandem with heavy healing that are an issue as well, but we'll focus on cp). Until then, reducing defile would just further the imbalance created by the current Cp system.

Liam12548 wrote: »

Defile is not too strong. Healing and mitigation via Cp are a far greater issue than the befoul Cp node. Defile is a direct counter to builds that don't need offensive capability, so they can spec purely into healing and use all their offensive blue Cp in Elfborn and blessed. Since the vast majority of players prefer to sacrifice damage in favor of survivability and sustain, befoul becomes a necessity to kill many specs.

Now, I only play medium armor stam classes (all 5). I am affected by defile MUCH more severely than any magicka or heavy armor spec. I play pure damage specs, and I can say that healing and mitigation vastly outperform the amount of damage you can get through cp. The only way to kill some of these pure tanky/healing specs is to defile them. If defile is reduced, then both blessed and quick recovery should be as well (there are other things like the argonian passives in tandem with heavy healing that are an issue as well, but we'll focus on cp). Until then, reducing defile would just further the imbalance created by the current Cp system.

These builds you talk about are almost non existent. I have only seen one of these builds and he still died fast. This is on NA PC.

dotme wrote: »

If defile is so strong, how come there are still unkillable tanks and other builds? The grass is always greener on the other side, but if I might make a suggestion, go make a defile build and see how you do. You might be surprised at how many players you still can't take down.

The issue with making a mechanic stronger because you somehow *need* to kill so called unkillable tanks leads to more issues than it solves. First and foremost strong defiles on top of bleeds are an issue for everyone who doesn’t build tanky or has no purge. Having a broad solution for one extreme end of the spectrum screws everyone not in the extreme and thus forces the extreme even more.

TwistedThoughtz wrote: »

I don’t agree with nerfing or changing defile, it’s a counter to healing builds.

And a hard counter to all non fully specced heal builds. Ironically defiles make it possible again to have high survivability builds with weak damage that can still kill people due to the effectiveness of defiles against all non shield builds

I'd love to see Defile remain as strong as it currently is, but have it be more rare. Having 40%+ healing reduction is often a huge help in taking down a player whose build is entirely dedicated toward block-casting group heals, or taking down a group of 3+ Wardens healing each other with Spores and Trees, especially in small groups that aren't as perfectly coordinated as the ones I expect Leif typically runs in. Being able to shut that guy down with a Shifting Standard or Corrupting Pollen boosted by Befoul is not the problem. The problem is that every second stamina build (plus plenty of mag builds!) out there has extremely easy access to Defile, whether from Reverb Bash, Lethal Arrow, Incap, or Dark Flare (that's not even counting Disease glyphs). Everyone one of those skills needs to lose its Major Defile (they can have Minor Defile if you like).

In other words, I support solutions aimed at keeping strong Defiles possible, but limiting players to treating Defile as a niche tool to take down niche builds. Instead, Defile is currently a standard part of many builds' regular toolkit for all engagements. That's the problem.

Nightblades are built around cloak, should we take out detect pots or detect skills too?

TwistedThoughtz wrote: »

Nightblades are built around cloak, should we take out detect pots or detect skills too?

Yes, we should.
we nightblades Should be allowed to cloak when we need to.
it's not fair.

casparian wrote: »

I'd love to see Defile remain as strong as it currently is, but have it be more rare. Having 40%+ healing reduction is often a huge help in taking down a player whose build is entirely dedicated toward block-casting group heals, or taking down a group of 3+ Wardens healing each other with Spores and Trees, especially in small groups that aren't as perfectly coordinated as the ones I expect Leif typically runs in. Being able to shut that guy down with a Shifting Standard or Corrupting Pollen boosted by Befoul is not the problem. The problem is that every second stamina build (plus plenty of mag builds!) out there has extremely easy access to Defile, whether from Reverb Bash, Lethal Arrow, Incap, or Dark Flare (that's not even counting Disease glyphs). Everyone one of those skills needs to lose its Major Defile (they can have Minor Defile if you like).

In other words, I support solutions aimed at keeping strong Defiles possible, but limiting players to treating Defile as a niche tool to take down niche builds. Instead, Defile is currently a standard part of many builds' regular toolkit for all engagements. That's the problem.

I could get behind this. I do still think befoul should be reworked assuming all of what you just said went into live. Mostly because it doesn't solve the Duroks builds and whatnot.

It's funny how a 200+ cost ulti that gives major defile is so bad because there are so many easier ways to get it. If defile was actually hard to get, standard might actually be worth slotting again.

Remove Lethal Arrow from the game, I don't care about morphs or anything else, snipe is over preforming (doesn't help that the audio cue is bugged AF). I am so bloody tired of one random zergling NB with little to no skill being able to take me down by spamming one single skill and I can't out-heal the damage because I am either; far away from the attacker or fighting someone else at the moment.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Currently, defile is way too strong for how trivial it is to apply. I don;t mind strong debuffs, but there should be some sort of effort needed to tag a player with that debuff. Spamming Reverb Bash, which also puts an obnoxious stun that sometimes, for whatever reason, takes forever to break is not it.

I disagree. The biggest problem with defile at the moment is related to sets like duroks and cyrodiils crest where you can apply the defile to multiple targets with little to no effort and with little to no cooldown. Reverb bash is an active single target skill. While you can continuously apply the debuff to a player, it’s just that...a single player.