Something Needs To Be Done About Defile

Mannox

I like to see a proper argument for any strength or weakness in PvP but this isn't one. Complaining that your favorite play style is euphoric in PvE but aggravating in PvP is definitely a legitimate upset but it doesn't mean everything should change just to please you. Defile counters healing received. It's a strict counter too, meaning either it's useful or it is not. Since there can be no middle ground (as it is with most play) one must adapt and develop a counter. If you truly play a lot in PvP then you should know there's a counter for everyone out there. There are ways to counter Defile play and they are effective. Maybe try something new.

LeifErickson

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

It's just the durations that need to be toned down. Most of the major defile sources last 10 seconds and are easy to reapply.

Applying defile using Snipe isn't quite "easy", outside of trying to gank players fighting other players. You open your self up to interrupts, long flight time, iconic sound.

If a NB spams Snipe from stealth there is a decent chance it will glitch out and the target wont hear or see animations until they are dead. This is a glitch though it is not how the skill is supposed to function and it is not how the skill functions in live interactive combat.

Lets pretend you get an initial Lethal Arrow on someone for the 10 second debuff. Now they are in your face attacking you, you fight for a bit without using Lethal Arrow. Now you want to reapply Major defile, so you try to Snipe again, they dodge roll, you try again, they interrupt/stun you. You break free and try again, they passively dodge from shuffle/Blur, you try again, they step behind a pillar/lampost and LoS you. This will continue until they let you snipe them because either they do not want to expend the resources to stop you, or they think they can kill you regardless. It is not so "easy" as applying say Reverberating Bash.

This made up situation is not the problem. The problem is when you are sniping someone from 30 meters away while they are dealing with other players right in front of them. If you are sniping people like you are saying in this post, you are not doing it right. You snipe people who will not be able to get to you. And that is when it is overpowered.

So you are saying you should only Snipe players when it is overpowered otherwise you shouldn't Snipe. Perhaps you can see the flaw in your own logic?

It isn't made up I have a lot of experience with it, ganking is not the only use or purpose of Snipe. Standing from range spamming Snipe is effective only when you out number a group or have the protection of walls. Spamming Snipe from range is actually the least effective method outside of getting a glitch. You will bring someones health down only for them to dodge roll heal and walk out of LoS, out of range, or charge you. You will have often expended lots of stamina in vain.

I would much rather have 3 people spamming Snipe at me than 3 people spamming curse as I can mitigate large numbers of Snipes with one dodge roll, I cannot mitigate Curses in the same way. This game is not balanced around Xv1 and shouldn't be.

That isn't to say that smaller groups shouldn't be able to win, that is to say the game should not be nuetered to favor small groups of elite players. Being in an organized group is already advantageous. Being better than your opponents is already advantageous.

Good groups already largely run S&B on one bar because of how strong it is to be able to bar swap and hold block through burst. They do not need anymore help with it.

I run a medium build and I can assure you Major Defile is fine, it sucks but it is not anywhere close to a guaranteed death. From my own experience of surviving it, as well as from my experience of facing a few good players that shrugged it off with little regard. If you are having trouble with Major Defile you are likely either expecting to win fights that you shouldn't, or you do not have a balanced build and lack healing power.

This game doesn't favor small groups at all though. And nerfing major defile doesn't buff small groups, it buffs everyone. Major defile is too good in every aspect of pvp - small, medium, large group.

I agree that given a perfect situation of small vs large this game doesn't favor small. However given the often ecountered situation of small group of great players vs large group of mediocre to bad players, it absolutely favors small coordinated groups. This game allows for an incredible amount of user control over combat variables, which in turn gives great advantage to those who know how to take advantage of those variables best.

I would agree that Defile is too good if we ignore healing. But I disagree when I take healing into account. Healing has been massively out of scale for a long time. Bad to mediocre players/groups have not known how to take advantage of it but I can assure you that good players/groups have.

I have run builds designed for powerful Snipes that would hit for 20k+ against most players and spammed blockplar/blockden healers with Lethal Arrow who didn't even bother LoSing, CC, interrupting me but killed my allies before turning on me. I do not run so one sided builds anymore and healing isn't what it has been. But it is still incredibly strong for those who invest in it.

Given the overall game balance I cannot agree that Defiles are over performing. They are great against builds that have invested minimally for self sustain and healing. And they are decently effective vs block builds, but only if you can sustain pressure on them.

These heal builds you talk about I have not seen (PC NA). Maybe I'm lucky, but it seems like they no longer exist. And it makes sense because they have been nerfed every patch for as long as I can remember. Healbots are super ineffective now compared to how they use to be thanks to a handful of new unblockable stuns, nerf to blessed and quick recovery, nerf to templar healing, nerf to major mending, nerf to block (multiple times), increase in cost of vigor, nerf to heavy armor, buff to defiles, removal of cost reduction cp and overall sustain nerf, and anything else I missed.

On my argonian magplar that is a damage build, I think the highest I ever hit an honor for was 12.5k crit and crit heals are being nerfed next patch anyways. However, even if you are hitting heals that high, it isn't sustainable at all like it use to be and it isn't something that needs to be nerfed. I have yet to come across a build in Cyrodiil that made me think "wow healing is way too strong."

LeifErickson

Mannox wrote: »

I like to see a proper argument for any strength or weakness in PvP but this isn't one. Complaining that your favorite play style is euphoric in PvE but aggravating in PvP is definitely a legitimate upset but it doesn't mean everything should change just to please you. Defile counters healing received. It's a strict counter too, meaning either it's useful or it is not. Since there can be no middle ground (as it is with most play) one must adapt and develop a counter. If you truly play a lot in PvP then you should know there's a counter for everyone out there. There are ways to counter Defile play and they are effective. Maybe try something new.

I never once mentioned pve in any of my posts so I don't know where you got that from. And like I said before, the counter to defile is mag sorc. The only other true counters are purges which only one class has (and it still does little to help them most of the time as pointed out by @DisgracefulMind) or using the absolutely trash and completely unviable support skill purge unless you make your build solely around this ability.

Rohamad_Ali

On the other hand there is a healing set (earthgore) that's over performing and major defile is one of the only ways to pick off members of these ball groups . So there are several issues here that effect one another . If everyone was playing solo or small scale then the need for massive debuffs would not be so strong . However the game was created to allow large groups and what ever is implemented to help small scale survivablility also becomes a bigger buff for group trains of 20 . We need damage and debuffs as long as the healing is over performing from sets . Toning down healing sets and then lowering major defile would make sense but then again the small scale has less healing available . It's a circle that goes round every patch .

Irylia

Defile is over performing. Drop duroks to minor or make the proc apply once every 5 seconds to one target.

Remove major defile from spam skills such as reverb/snipe/dark flare.

Remove major defile off of incap and make it minor

Nova/Shackle provide major defile.

Reduce befoul scaling in cp or turn major/minor defile into 25/10%

GoodFella146

More like buff defile and make it available to every class. Oh no someone might actually learn have to attack somebody rather than turtle! The horror!

Wuuffyy

I love how YOU ALL are saying that the cause is befoul. It's not. It goes up to 55% which takes the typical major defile from 30 to roughly 46%. Cool.

You are saying that it's also buffing minor defile by at most another 9% which comes to about 23%. WITH 100 POINTS IN THAT STAR.

Okay. Consider this:

All sources of major defile (except incap) require you to slot a skill/armor set that is either very situational or causes you to lose actual damage in the process (usually by a lot) and open yourself up to a hard CC.

You can't even consider minor defile and here is why: Nothing gives this (Not disease enchants, incap, dark flare, lethal, or ANYTHING). It's literally FASALLAS (5m range and 0 damage buffs) or THOR-WHATEVER monster set from the Dragon Bones DLC (Stationary AOE... LOL). Not even applicable.

Where is your real issue when it comes to defile? Remember that cp star they added a few patches back? The one that took your recov away. Well, they buffed that to take EVERYTHING away which means your healing included. Roughly 40-50 points in that is a hard 10% nerf to your healing and sustain... Counter: Kite It? Technically but no. It's to easy to apply. But that's not just your problem. Every pug open world runs sustain poisons on top of this open world for x v 1 ing. The problem posed by this is you can't afford to heal any longer and when the defile is put on you, it becomes impossible.

You could get it off, but... Then there is a snipe glitcher in the back. LOL.

What they need to do: Take what they did to BUFF off-balance AND then NERF Defile... Standardize the Defile time to 5 seconds (6 max). Now, the worst offender: Nightblades and their low cost incap. SURE, this move really isn't OP. It's low cost and needed for PVE and provides much needed utility for a burst-focused class. In duels and small scale this is fine. You sometimes might need it to kill someone and move on. HOWEVER, the problem is that whatever you use, the zergs can AND WILL use it also. Therefore you have zergs popping incaps left and right with nothing to worry about because they have healers and tanks and their little beady-eyed pugs. This needs to be changed.

AGAIN: Standardize the Defiles to 5 seconds. Change the siphon-er CP star (it's too meta and we hate meta, RIGHT?!). Take the frikin Major Defile off Incap. Instead to keep the utility the same, turn it to either physical damage (to synergies with more damage sets) or to poison damage and have proc the poison status effect everytime (yes IK about the argonian, wood-elf, etc. immunities, IDC). Keep the base ability the same and turn soul harvest into shock damage and have it always apply the status effect (8% damage increase... Still relevant but not OP, not OP in PVE b/c it's already placed on by good groups). Consider reworking the way that particular poison (resource drain) works. The people using it are either cheese puffs in duels or x v 1 ers that are lacking damage or knowledge of how to run someone out of sustain naturally. 30% this patch is STILL TOO STRONG. Nerfing this to about 20% (in line with KENA which BTW... Still destroys your resources) would help tremondously (especially if you keep the siphon-er star which was released alongside said poison anyway). Lastly, you need to rework your bash immunites... They're cool but I don't think they are the way you intended them to be. Sure it helps to have dark deal and sure it's nice for blood altar (whatever). But it's being using on: radiant (which is a strong executed that never faced an issue with being bashed constantly), and you can take a CC and turn it into other peoples nightmares (CCs should cause you to recover, not become even stronger. Lastly, fix the darn snipe glitching --- THREE YEARS IN GUYS, common!

DuskMarine

defile needs to kindve stay where its at tbh right now. reason being a critical on bol is an instant heal back to full health almost. only thing to counter that is major defile. so it doesnt need nerfed cause it hard counters probly the best best heal in the game. and i dont know if anyone wants templar heal balls back right?

LeifErickson

DuskMarine wrote: »

defile needs to kindve stay where its at tbh right now. reason being a critical on bol is an instant heal back to full health almost. only thing to counter that is major defile. so it doesnt need nerfed cause it hard counters probly the best best heal in the game. and i dont know if anyone wants templar heal balls back right?

A crit heal of bol does not heal back to full at all. It would take me two crit heals of bol on a 27k health argonian build to get to full if I was at 3k best case scenario.

Joy_Division

NobleX35 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Currently, defile is way too strong for how trivial it is to apply. I don;t mind strong debuffs, but there should be some sort of effort needed to tag a player with that debuff. Spamming Reverb Bash, which also puts an obnoxious stun that sometimes, for whatever reason, takes forever to break is not it.

I disagree. The biggest problem with defile at the moment is related to sets like duroks and cyrodiils crest where you can apply the defile to multiple targets with little to no effort and with little to no cooldown. Reverb bash is an active single target skill. While you can continuously apply the debuff to a player, it’s just that...a single player.

People getting Xv1ed would probably appreciate if defile wasn't so easy to apply.

You don’t balance the game around xv1 scenarios. And if you’re getting Xv1’d, you’re either going to die anyway in which case it doesn’t matter...or you’re fighting scrubs in which it still doesn’t matter.

I didn't say to balance the game around Xv1. What kind of logic is that I'm going to die anyway so it doesn't matter? It does matter if I die to stuff that not balanced which caused me to die in the first place.

Xsorus

I can't take this thread seriously.

Defile use to be 50% base, and it use to stack with crap like Fasalla (which was also 50%) for an obscene amount of healing debuff. People still healed through that back in the day just fine.

So when you're whining about Defile now with all the obscene healing they've added to the game i just laugh...

Not to mention the second they nerfed Defile with some of the suggestions offered here....A lot of the same posters would be whining about unkillable players.

Also you'd stand ZERO chance of killing a competent Nightblade without Defile right now

IAVITNI

Joy_Division wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Currently, defile is way too strong for how trivial it is to apply. I don;t mind strong debuffs, but there should be some sort of effort needed to tag a player with that debuff. Spamming Reverb Bash, which also puts an obnoxious stun that sometimes, for whatever reason, takes forever to break is not it.

I disagree. The biggest problem with defile at the moment is related to sets like duroks and cyrodiils crest where you can apply the defile to multiple targets with little to no effort and with little to no cooldown. Reverb bash is an active single target skill. While you can continuously apply the debuff to a player, it’s just that...a single player.

People getting Xv1ed would probably appreciate if defile wasn't so easy to apply.

So much this ^

Reverb Bash in a 1v1/duel is still ridiculous. Being able to keep a Major Debuff up 100% of the time is simply poor game design. As others have pointed out, if it is meant to counter healing, that it should have the same potential uptime as Major Mending/Vitality and should not be applicable from high ranged skills such as Snipe or Dark Flare.

The arguably most debilitating debuff in the game should not have near 100% uptime and should especially not have near 100% uptime in a normal rotation. If you run Reverb Bash, it's going to come in every rotation at 0 opportunity cost. Same with Snipe/Dark Flare (I admit Snipe/DF have their problems, but slapping Major Defile on these skills was a lazy attempt at balance. Nothing more).

IAVITNI

@Toc de Malsvi

Let's not pretend you're not an avid fan of Snipe because you post in pretty much any post about it. You make valid arguments but you dance around the issues of the skill. Niche skills are ok, but Snipe either severely underperforms or severely over performs. It's a broken skill. And when I say broken, I don't mean overpowered.

Yes Snipe has issues but you can't simply use these issues to negate the poor gameplay that it promotes outside of your scenarios. Both ends need to be addressed. It would be perfectly fair to increase snipe performance in your described scenario and decrease its performance in xv1 scenarios. In fact, it would be a change that promotes balance.

Stating that builds exist that can out heal snipe spams is fairly moot since those builds are specced for block healing, which is going to negate most direct damage builds, not just snipe spam. Can't really use a build that counters your build to showcase its effectiveness and than argue that it shows the Defile doesn't need a nerf.

100% uptime on Defile is in no way different than 100% uptime on snares. It's overly debilitating and removes a players ability to actually play. Uptime on Defile needs to go down, and unfortunately that means Snipe is going to have to lose Major Defile as well.

Xsorus wrote: »

I can't take this thread seriously.

Defile use to be 50% base, and it use to stack with crap like Fasalla (which was also 50%) for an obscene amount of healing debuff. People still healed through that back in the day just fine.

So when you're whining about Defile now with all the obscene healing they've added to the game i just laugh...

Not to mention the second they nerfed Defile with some of the suggestions offered here....A lot of the same posters would be whining about unkillable players.

Also you'd stand ZERO chance of killing a competent Nightblade without Defile right now

Defile wasn't as prominent back when Fasalla was 50% and those obscene healers have been nerfed and will be nerfed further due to crit heals being nerfed.

Also Nightblade healing is taking a big hit with the Shadowy Disguise and Crit Heal nerfs. The game has changed, but only partially. It's time to update the remains.

*edited due to incorrect autocorrect

Xsorus

IAVITNI wrote: »

@Toc de Malsvi

Let's not pretend you're not an avid fan of Snipe because you post in pretty much any post about it. You make valid arguments but you dance around the issues of the skill. Niche skills are ok, but Snipe either severely underperforms or severely over performs. It's a broken skill. And when I say broken, I don't mean overpowered.

Yes Snipe has issues but you can't simply use these issues to negate the poor gameplay that it promotes outside of your scenarios. Both ends need to be addressed. It would be perfectly fair to increase snipe performance in your described scenario and decrease its performance in xv1 scenarios. In fact, it would be a change that promotes balance.

Stating that builds exist that can out heal snipe spams is fairly moot since those builds are specced for block healing, which is going to negate most direct damage builds, not just snipe spam. Can't really use a build that counters your build to showcase its effectiveness and than argue that it shows the Defile doesn't need a nerf.

100% uptime on Defile is in no way different than 100% uptime on snares. It's overly debilitating and removes a players ability to actually play. Uptime on Defile needs to go down, and unfortunately that means Snipe is going to have to lose Major Defile as well.

Xsorus wrote: »

I can't take this thread seriously.

Defile use to be 50% base, and it use to stack with crap like Fasalla (which was also 50%) for an obscene amount of healing debuff. People still healed through that back in the day just fine.

So when you're whining about Defile now with all the obscene healing they've added to the game i just laugh...

Not to mention the second they nerfed Defile with some of the suggestions offered here....A lot of the same posters would be whining about unkillable players.

Also you'd stand ZERO chance of killing a competent Nightblade without Defile right now

Defile wasn't as prominent back when Fasalla was 50% and those obscene healers have been nerfed and will be nerfed further due to crit heals being nerfed.

Also Nightblade healing is taking a big hit with the Shadowy Disguise and Crit Heal nerfs. The game has changed, but only partially. It's time to update the remains.

*edited due to incorrect autocorrect

What you mean it wasn't prominent? The same skills that had it back then have it now..only you had a very common set that also applied 50% healing debuff.

Hell not only was it common Disease applied minor defile (not Major) and it bloody stacked with the other two as well.

Derra

What would you people think about giving medium armor agility passive a second function that reduced healdebuffs by 30 to 50% in effectiveness?

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

What would you people think about giving medium armor agility passive a second function that reduced healdebuffs by 30 to 50% in effectiveness?

I think defiles are too strong against all builds which don't have access to shields as a main defence or which don't spec everything into healing.

Just giving medium armor a strong counter is unfair towards magicka builds and would also make medium armor the choice for each and all builds.
Right now the decision for medium or heavy on a stamspec really depends on your playstyle and your class.
Heavy needs less reactive defence to survive but often forces you to have a more active sustain via heavy attacks.
Medium has more access to active defence which can be superior but also inferior to HA resistances while having less need for active sustain through regen passives.

The healing is pretty balanced between the two.
Medium can get a burst heal with rally as you have shuffle for snare removal while HA takes less damage and gives you more healing by default you are limited to FM on most builds however to fight snares.

Giving medium much better healing would make heavy inferior across the board imo.

Anazasi

LeifErickson wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with defile. It is a easily countered debuff. Players need to learn to purge.

Are you trolling?

No I am not trolling. Defile is fine if you understand the group mechanics. Defile is now the second most common debuff in the game right behind maim.

Purge.

defile countered by purge, purge countered by negate.

This game is about buffs and debuffs, Ultis and speed. This is why groups are so competitive and why organized play is stronger than solo play.

Feanor

Anazasi wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with defile. It is a easily countered debuff. Players need to learn to purge.

Are you trolling?

No I am not trolling. Defile is fine if you understand the group mechanics. Defile is now the second most common debuff in the game right behind maim.

Purge.

defile countered by purge, purge countered by negate.

This game is about buffs and debuffs, Ultis and speed. This is why groups are so competitive and why organized play is stronger than solo play.

Of course you’re having no problem with defiles if you run 2 dedicated purge spammers. That itself is a problem. It encourages zerging and punishes small groups and solo play.

Anazasi

I would suggest that as a stam player in small group play you have enough magic to cast purge a few times. Even the stamplars uses magic for this purpose. It sounds to me that you might have simply not planned properly for your stamina build.

Furthermore, its funny you say organized group with 2 dedicated purges spammers. I should correct you though. All magic builds slot efficient purge and when necessary raid leads call for a full group purge and everyone uses the ability. I think though you trying to ridicule organized players who understand the basic mechanics of the game just because you want to be lazy and not slot purge.

You can even take this a step further and argue that stam builds do not have access a stam based purge. I would say well the warden has the ability to purge 1 negative effect but overall no purge is not a stam based mechanic. Why is this so. Well when you look at stam builds and magic builds this is the defining factor. Magic builds have the ability to directly counter any stam based debuffs. Big hint here.....Stam sorc using negate is OP>

This is the best example of a learn to play issue i have seen in years.

Checkmath

Anazasi wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with defile. It is a easily countered debuff. Players need to learn to purge.

Are you trolling?

No I am not trolling. Defile is fine if you understand the group mechanics. Defile is now the second most common debuff in the game right behind maim.

Purge.

defile countered by purge, purge countered by negate.

This game is about buffs and debuffs, Ultis and speed. This is why groups are so competitive and why organized play is stronger than solo play.

so defile should be balanced around ballgroups, which overperform thanks to stacking and having at least 3 times earthgore with them, running dedicated healers, purgers and speed buff givers?
i dont think so, this would be heavenly imbalanced for all other pvp contet from duelling, to battlegrounds, to zerging, to solo or small group playing, even big group playing....

Feanor

You have just said what I was saying anyway - that a big group can afford to run that awesome skill with a base cost of 5,100 magicka that purges exactly 2 harmful effects. And that Stamplars (and Magplars) can use magicka for purify. That doesn’t solve the problem though.

I also don’t play Stam Builds normally, and I mostly run solo.

Anazasi

well my advice is to make your small group larger and include a magic templar. I think Deltia had or has a really nice small group magplar build somewhere. But because you don't want to increase your group size does not warrant you advocating for this change to the entire game.

Feanor

Anazasi wrote: »

well my advice is to make your small group larger and include a magic templar. I think Deltia had or has a really nice small group magplar build somewhere. But because you don't want to increase your group size does not warrant you advocating for this change to the entire game.

I’m quite honestly a bit baffled. I don’t know what’s worse - you telling a SOLO player to just run a bigger group or your “advice” of copying a Deltia Templar build. Did you actually read what I wrote?

Checkmath

Anazasi wrote: »

well my advice is to make your small group larger and include a magic templar. I think Deltia had or has a really nice small group magplar build somewhere. But because you don't want to increase your group size does not warrant you advocating for this change to the entire game.

good advice to either slot a really costly skill or to rely on a friend doing so...be realistic and think about what you said, because it doesnt make sense balancing a game around groupplay, where someone has to purge. in a small group the most effective way would be the synergy from the templars cleansing ritual, which can only be used once every 20 seconds. but running somebody dedicated to purging in a group smaller than 6 is a huge loss of healing or damage, so someone able to remove only 2 negative effects is a bad design. your suggestion only works for coordinated groups with dedicated roles with at min 10 player and you cant even be realistsic, when you say that actually everyone should run in such a group. because otherwise you would be gimping yourself, if you didnt, right? and thats where the word balance stops working, because exactly those groups are working outside of every balance in this game.

IAVITNI

Xsorus wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

@Toc de Malsvi

Let's not pretend you're not an avid fan of Snipe because you post in pretty much any post about it. You make valid arguments but you dance around the issues of the skill. Niche skills are ok, but Snipe either severely underperforms or severely over performs. It's a broken skill. And when I say broken, I don't mean overpowered.

Yes Snipe has issues but you can't simply use these issues to negate the poor gameplay that it promotes outside of your scenarios. Both ends need to be addressed. It would be perfectly fair to increase snipe performance in your described scenario and decrease its performance in xv1 scenarios. In fact, it would be a change that promotes balance.

Stating that builds exist that can out heal snipe spams is fairly moot since those builds are specced for block healing, which is going to negate most direct damage builds, not just snipe spam. Can't really use a build that counters your build to showcase its effectiveness and than argue that it shows the Defile doesn't need a nerf.

100% uptime on Defile is in no way different than 100% uptime on snares. It's overly debilitating and removes a players ability to actually play. Uptime on Defile needs to go down, and unfortunately that means Snipe is going to have to lose Major Defile as well.

Xsorus wrote: »

I can't take this thread seriously.

Defile use to be 50% base, and it use to stack with crap like Fasalla (which was also 50%) for an obscene amount of healing debuff. People still healed through that back in the day just fine.

So when you're whining about Defile now with all the obscene healing they've added to the game i just laugh...

Not to mention the second they nerfed Defile with some of the suggestions offered here....A lot of the same posters would be whining about unkillable players.

Also you'd stand ZERO chance of killing a competent Nightblade without Defile right now

Defile wasn't as prominent back when Fasalla was 50% and those obscene healers have been nerfed and will be nerfed further due to crit heals being nerfed.

Also Nightblade healing is taking a big hit with the Shadowy Disguise and Crit Heal nerfs. The game has changed, but only partially. It's time to update the remains.

*edited due to incorrect autocorrect

What you mean it wasn't prominent? The same skills that had it back then have it now..only you had a very common set that also applied 50% healing debuff.

Hell not only was it common Disease applied minor defile (not Major) and it bloody stacked with the other two as well.

I mean not as many people ran it compared to now--it wasn't meta. Back than 2h/bow was meta and snipers were very rare. Nobody was complaining about 1h and shield meta or snipe spam back than. I am well aware that the same skills had it but it was mostly a dueling spec whereas now everybody and their mother is trying to apply Major Defile the moment they see you.

Murador178

Feanor wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

well my advice is to make your small group larger and include a magic templar. I think Deltia had or has a really nice small group magplar build somewhere. But because you don't want to increase your group size does not warrant you advocating for this change to the entire game.

I’m quite honestly a bit baffled. I don’t know what’s worse - you telling a SOLO player to just run a bigger group or your “advice” of copying a Deltia Templar build. Did you actually read what I wrote?

We arent often the same opinion, but here u got me

technohic

If purge is meant to be the answer, they should really make efficient purge a little more efficient, although it really doesn't cost that much than templars extended ritual but for only 2 debuffs.

Still think efficient purge should be self only and about the cost of extended ritual so it becomes to templars ritual what silver leash is becoming to DK chains. Then cleanse stays the same cost but purges group mates.

Problem is though; I run a stamplar and I can tell you even with 5 negative effects removed on 1 cast, you don't always get the one off you that you need. Plenty if you have a ton of magicka to cast it more than once, not so much for stam classes. Its why efficient purge works in groups with more than one person hitting it with plenty of magicka.

IAVITNI

technohic wrote: »

If purge is meant to be the answer, they should really make efficient purge a little more efficient, although it really doesn't cost that much than templars extended ritual but for only 2 debuffs.

Still think efficient purge should be self only and about the cost of extended ritual so it becomes to templars ritual what silver leash is becoming to DK chains. Then cleanse stays the same cost but purges group mates.

Problem is though; I run a stamplar and I can tell you even with 5 negative effects removed on 1 cast, you don't always get the one off you that you need. Plenty if you have a ton of magicka to cast it more than once, not so much for stam classes. Its why efficient purge works in groups with more than one person hitting it with plenty of magicka.

They could create priorities for purges. Majors > Poisons > Minors etc. than have Defile > Maim > Fracture etc.

Not ideal as I think the randomness is part of what balances purge but could be an option. Since it's a lazy balance option, sadly I see it being a possibility.

Kilandros

Anazasi wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with defile. It is a easily countered debuff. Players need to learn to purge.

Are you trolling?

No I am not trolling. Defile is fine if you understand the group mechanics. Defile is now the second most common debuff in the game right behind maim.

Purge.

defile countered by purge, purge countered by negate.

This game is about buffs and debuffs, Ultis and speed. This is why groups are so competitive and why organized play is stronger than solo play.

Didn't you just accuse organized groups who have a dedicated purge spammer of using CE?

Derra

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

What would you people think about giving medium armor agility passive a second function that reduced healdebuffs by 30 to 50% in effectiveness?

I think defiles are too strong against all builds which don't have access to shields as a main defence or which don't spec everything into healing.

Just giving medium armor a strong counter is unfair towards magicka builds and would also make medium armor the choice for each and all builds.
Right now the decision for medium or heavy on a stamspec really depends on your playstyle and your class.
Heavy needs less reactive defence to survive but often forces you to have a more active sustain via heavy attacks.
Medium has more access to active defence which can be superior but also inferior to HA resistances while having less need for active sustain through regen passives.

The healing is pretty balanced between the two.
Medium can get a burst heal with rally as you have shuffle for snare removal while HA takes less damage and gives you more healing by default you are limited to FM on most builds however to fight snares.

Giving medium much better healing would make heavy inferior across the board imo.

I don´t think so to be honest.
You´re looking too much at medium + heavy stamina builds here and don´t take into account for heavy magica builds too much. Also magica atleast has always the option to combat defile via healing ward (i do think defile durations need to be looked at).
The only builds that get absolutely hardcountered by defile (imo) are stam builds - and buffing medium in that regard would atleast create the option to combat that.
Given how much heavy is still prefered for most builds i don´t think it would create too much issues but that´s just a gutfeeling.

Flatout weakening defile instead of helping the builds suffering the most from it is from my perspective undesireable for current group synergies and mechanics.
Healing without defile or without befoul cp can feel equally unbalanced as defile currently.