PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance

Thraben · April 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Sorcerer combat balance and ability changes. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance.

Feedback Healer- Sorc.

I would say you have achieved your aim to make Sorc healing more viable

One example:

The Overload Healer:

Due to the new Psijic Skill Line it is possible that a Sorc can instantly switch his or her role from a "normal" dps to an off- healer, with only few downsides. This is particularly useful if the real healer has a disconnect, or more healing is required during a difficult boss phase.

All that is needed is a prepared Overload bar with following skills:

1) Mend Wounds. This skill generates Ultimate, so that you can still do some Overload DPS when needed.
2) Overflowing Altar: Provides the DD with a small permanent HoT
3) Energy Orb: This skill restores ressources, and heals the group over time
4) Twilight Matriarch: Your standard Burst Heal

The Skill 5 can be either filled with a damage skill (e.g. entropy, or Imbue weapons), or vigor.

Tasear · April 2018

ElFonz0 wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

Salzor wrote: »

Has anyone else mentioned that Restraining Prison now gives Major Vitality for 2s per target hit up to 6 targets? I thumbed through this and it wasn't even in the notes.

Is the Major Vitality applied to the caster or to the allies standing in the Restraining Prison?

Just tested it: it gives Major Vitality to you for 2 seconds, and each enemy in the area adds 1 second to that up to 6 extra seconds, for a max of 8 seconds

That means tank skill. Which is nice.

ToRelax · April 2018

Camb0Sl1ce wrote: »

So in pve I'm still going to have to double bar aegis, losing 8% max mag every time I swap bars isn't a buff to me. Except now I lose the visual effect of it, kinda disappointed honestly. I know purple mist dosnt effect my dps but I was still kinda cool looking.

You only lose stats from bar swapping when the resource pool in question is full. This is important for your secondary resource and especially health pools, but has no relevance for your main resource pool because it's basically never completely full in combat anyway.

Osubaker33 · April 2018

Bound Aegis : Would like to see Bound Aegis get a buff to light attack damage like the stamina version

Daedric Mines: Make at least one morph of deadric mines create only one mine that is aoe dmg.

Crystal Blast: As others have said reduce the hard cast time on Crystal Blast to 0.5 seconds and reduce its base magica cost to 3000. Its waay to expensive at is it. To compensate perhaps reduce its damage by 10% (would make it less bursty in pvp)

Power Surge/Crit Surge: Something more needs to be done to differentiate these two morphs.

Expert Summoner : Increase your max health by 5%/10% while you have a pet active , increase your max magice by 3%/6% when you do not. (non pet sorc could use a little love)

Tasear · April 2018

Thraben wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Sorcerer combat balance and ability changes. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance.

Feedback Healer- Sorc.

I would say you have achieved your aim to make Sorc healing more viable One example:

The Overload Healer:

Due to the new Psijic Skill Line it is possible that a Sorc can instantly switch his or her role from a "normal" dps to an off- healer, with only few downsides. This is particularly useful if the real healer has a disconnect, or more healing is required during a difficult boss phase.

All that is needed is a prepared Overload bar with following skills:

1) Mend Wounds. This skill generates Ultimate, so that you can still do some Overload DPS when needed.
2) Overflowing Altar: Provides the DD with a small permanent HoT
3) Energy Orb: This skill restores ressources, and heals the group over time
4) Twilight Matriarch: Your standard Burst Heal

The Skill 5 can be either filled with a damage skill (e.g. entropy, or Imbue weapons), or vigor.

I see what you are saying, but energy orb on back bar doesn't work as well as you think. Healers have to react fast and putting energy on back bar would be for the resource.

I have not login, but 3 secs window is not enough to switch to first or second bar and perform heavy attack or light one. Overlord animation isn't fliud enough for that.

I don't like how be lines of sorc dps and healer blured even more this patch. Yes emprowered ward change was needed badly, but I do have bit identity crisis. What does sorc dps not have that Sorc healer does. Yes certainly lots of world buffs, but nothing that says pick me the sorc.
What would like to see better animation for overlord transision. This would make buffs more stable.

What I see now though. There's a better hot skill option. I like mutgen but definitely could use mend wounds in trials. We can take some of sorc tank sustain skills on occasion making it like a mini asylum resto. There's new potions suited for 4 man. Let's not forget there's no comparison to bol and twlight now. Twlight is better. So yes not bad, but still issues. Overall I like sorc things.

P.S

still think about sorc synergies with charged storm attonach. Nobody sees what you are thinking.

magorim · April 2018

So, this change was not in the patch notes as mentioned and I don't think it's very usefull. For PVE, against a boss it's meh and against trash mobs it's not needed. For PVP, it's kinda nice to have in a group vs group scenario but otherwise pretty useless.

I would be happy having major vitality, not gonna lie. But not on Encase, it's bad and a synergy or debuff would make more sense on such a skill, just look at talons.

Derra · April 2018

ElFonz0 wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

Salzor wrote: »

Has anyone else mentioned that Restraining Prison now gives Major Vitality for 2s per target hit up to 6 targets? I thumbed through this and it wasn't even in the notes.

Is the Major Vitality applied to the caster or to the allies standing in the Restraining Prison?

Just tested it: it gives Major Vitality to you for 2 seconds, and each enemy in the area adds 1 second to that up to 6 extra seconds, for a max of 8 seconds

Did they do anything to shattering prison? That morph has absolutely no use at all because it deals no dmg if rolled out of...

Also not a huge fan that they essentially made the good morph (still rarely used because niche skill) worse.
Sorc looses their only access to a snare with this change.
Should have changed shattering not restraining prison.
Not a fan at all.
Stop nerfing good morph choices. Bleh.

Feanor · April 2018

magorim wrote: »

So, this change was not in the patch notes as mentioned and I don't think it's very usefull. For PVE, against a boss it's meh and against trash mobs it's not needed. For PVP, it's kinda nice to have in a group vs group scenario but otherwise pretty useless.

I would be happy having major vitality, not gonna lie. But not on Encase, it's bad and a synergy or debuff would make more sense on such a skill, just look at talons.

I agree. Do we really want to give the encase spammers more tools to survive? Because that’s where it’s used exclusively - on a raid where you can afford to have encase on your bar. A synergy would make much more sense. And bosses in pve are immune most times anyway, so it’s limited use there, as you said.

Derra · April 2018

Feanor wrote: »

magorim wrote: »

So, this change was not in the patch notes as mentioned and I don't think it's very usefull. For PVE, against a boss it's meh and against trash mobs it's not needed. For PVP, it's kinda nice to have in a group vs group scenario but otherwise pretty useless.

I would be happy having major vitality, not gonna lie. But not on Encase, it's bad and a synergy or debuff would make more sense on such a skill, just look at talons.

I agree. Do we really want to give the encase spammers more tools to survive? Because that’s where it’s used exclusively - on a raid where you can afford to have encase on your bar. A synergy would make much more sense. And bosses in pve are immune most times anyway, so it’s limited use there, as you said.

It´s specifically a very harsh nerf for encase spammers because they changed the good morph of encase. They loose the snare on it.

Personally i feel the ability will become almost useless except for trolltanks now.

Feanor · April 2018

Derra wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

magorim wrote: »

So, this change was not in the patch notes as mentioned and I don't think it's very usefull. For PVE, against a boss it's meh and against trash mobs it's not needed. For PVP, it's kinda nice to have in a group vs group scenario but otherwise pretty useless.

I would be happy having major vitality, not gonna lie. But not on Encase, it's bad and a synergy or debuff would make more sense on such a skill, just look at talons.

I agree. Do we really want to give the encase spammers more tools to survive? Because that’s where it’s used exclusively - on a raid where you can afford to have encase on your bar. A synergy would make much more sense. And bosses in pve are immune most times anyway, so it’s limited use there, as you said.

It´s specifically a very harsh nerf for encase spammers because they changed the good morph of encase. They loose the snare on it.

Personally i feel the ability will become almost useless except for trolltanks now.

I disagree. While the snare it’s nice the skill is about the unblockable root. The snare never kills me. The root does. I just think that offensive should never give defensive perks as well.

Derra · April 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

magorim wrote: »

So, this change was not in the patch notes as mentioned and I don't think it's very usefull. For PVE, against a boss it's meh and against trash mobs it's not needed. For PVP, it's kinda nice to have in a group vs group scenario but otherwise pretty useless.

I would be happy having major vitality, not gonna lie. But not on Encase, it's bad and a synergy or debuff would make more sense on such a skill, just look at talons.

I agree. Do we really want to give the encase spammers more tools to survive? Because that’s where it’s used exclusively - on a raid where you can afford to have encase on your bar. A synergy would make much more sense. And bosses in pve are immune most times anyway, so it’s limited use there, as you said.

It´s specifically a very harsh nerf for encase spammers because they changed the good morph of encase. They loose the snare on it.

Personally i feel the ability will become almost useless except for trolltanks now.

I disagree. While the snare it’s nice the skill is about the unblockable root. The snare never kills me. The root does. I just think that offensive should never give defensive perks as well.

It´s not offensive though - it´s a pure cc skill.

Also all roots are unblockable? ._.

Having been the sorc using this root in a grp i can guarantee you it´s a pretty harsh nerf on the current use scenario.

Maulkin · April 2018

I'm with Derra on this one. Snare made the skill useful in PvP. Might a be a buff for PvE tanks but a nerf for Sorcs using it in PvP groups. Major Vitality for MagSorcs with mostly Wards is a waste.

They should have changed the other morph that's entirely unused at the moment.

VaxtinTheWolf · April 2018

I wasn't aware of this. I have not looked at this class yet, though I use one for 4-man vet dungeon Tanking.

I'm disappointed by the Encase change. I only slot that skill for Trash and remove it when a boss fight is coming. Usually I replace it with Surge for passive self healing.

The vitality boost would give me no actual benefit and also remove the reason I used Restraining Prison; For the lingering Snare to save on spamming the skill and retaining some Magicka. And it's very limited use during a lot of Boss fights as well.

/lurk

Thraben · April 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

I'm with Derra on this one. Snare made the skill useful in PvP. Might a be a buff for PvE tanks but a nerf for Sorcs using it in PvP groups. Major Vitality for MagSorcs with mostly Wards is a waste.

They should have changed the other morph that's entirely unused at the moment.

I don´t consider it a nerf. Good groups are immune against encase spam anyway, and even more so against the slow. And bad ones are dead before the root has expired.

Besides, StamSorc CC in PvP groups receives a HUGE buff. In many critical situations, Streak will be replaced by Time Stop, because the CC rotation: "Razor Caltrops -> Borrowed Time -> Negate" covers a larger area, can be more easily applied, and most importantly, opens up the opportunity to save the Negate for a later use if it becomes clear that Borrowed Time would suffice.

Skullstachio · April 2018

I can see Bound aegis being a good thing, just a "cosmetic" question here, if bound armor & its morphs are slotted, will that allow a permanent cosmetic effect "while it is slotted?" (because really, before summerset, the cosmetic effect from Bound Aegis makes my own Sorcerers heavy Mazzatun Helmet very sinister looking in a good way, the same can be said for those with heavy Xivkyn helmets too.)

Erraln · April 2018

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

I can see Bound aegis being a good thing, just a "cosmetic" question here, if bound armor & its morphs are slotted, will that allow a permanent cosmetic effect "while it is slotted?" (because really, before summerset, the cosmetic effect from Bound Aegis makes my own Sorcerers heavy Mazzatun Helmet very sinister looking in a good way, the same can be said for those with heavy Xivkyn helmets too.)

No, it's behaving identically to the Magelight change of yore; the previously permanent animation now displays for three seconds when activated, and then vanishes.

Shame. I liked it too. Watch them put a 3-minute Memento to put it back on your character temporarily into a Crate season later.

Maulkin · April 2018

Thraben wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I'm with Derra on this one. Snare made the skill useful in PvP. Might a be a buff for PvE tanks but a nerf for Sorcs using it in PvP groups. Major Vitality for MagSorcs with mostly Wards is a waste.

They should have changed the other morph that's entirely unused at the moment.

I don´t consider it a nerf. Good groups are immune against encase spam anyway, and even more so against the slow. And bad ones are dead before the root has expired.

Not true imo.

Sure, a good large group will have purge and rapid spammer so any root/slow skill becomes useless anyway. But the target is not them.

Disorganised randoms and pugs still know how to dodge out of a root, so the notion that you'll always kill them before the root has ended (i.e. in 0.5 seconds) is grossly exaggerated. If your're 5-6 people against zerglings or another group of the same size that can't afford a space for a purger, then it's a different story.

You can nail them at a choke point and the slow from Encase and Caltrops plays an important part in keeping them within the AoE for longer, especially since slows kind of stack. Permafrost, Caltrops, Encase and Negate tend to make for a pretty mean deathtrap.

akray21 · April 2018

magorim wrote: »

So, this change was not in the patch notes as mentioned and I don't think it's very usefull. For PVE, against a boss it's meh and against trash mobs it's not needed. For PVP, it's kinda nice to have in a group vs group scenario but otherwise pretty useless.

I would be happy having major vitality, not gonna lie. But not on Encase, it's bad and a synergy or debuff would make more sense on such a skill, just look at talons.

This is actually a huge buff to my StamSorc support build that has high magicka regen. I stun and root on cooldown, and drop negates.

EDIT: speaking about PvP

Salzor · April 2018

I would rather have Encase changed to be a Synergy as well. The Major Vitality thing is kind of questionable since as someone trying out a Sorc Tank I don't see when you'd really benefit from it, duration is too short with a single target and if you are rooting a group of adds do you really need Major Vitality?

Minalan · April 2018

akray21 wrote: »

magorim wrote: »

So, this change was not in the patch notes as mentioned and I don't think it's very usefull. For PVE, against a boss it's meh and against trash mobs it's not needed. For PVP, it's kinda nice to have in a group vs group scenario but otherwise pretty useless.

I would be happy having major vitality, not gonna lie. But not on Encase, it's bad and a synergy or debuff would make more sense on such a skill, just look at talons.

This is actually a huge buff to my StamSorc support build that has high magicka regen. I stun and root on cooldown, and drop negates.

EDIT: speaking about PvP

They really should have made this morph cost stamina, because that’s pretty much who it’s for.

A Magicka build that uses wards really doesn’t have any use for vitality when they’re using healing wards or a Resto staff.

Aliyavana · April 2018

Anyone test out imbue weapon stam morph on a stam sorc

Svidrir · April 2018

Bound armor ...

How I see things, for a stamina wizard, knowing that I hate to lose resources on a bar change (pvp)

In heavy armor it is a nerve because nothing changes I must have the skill on both bars as before except that the skill becomes a buff for the bonus of light attack (currently nothing to activate, the bonus is like a passive for heavy attacks) and all that too, not to lose the bonus 20% daedric regeneration.

I pass in medium armor and I abandon the skills, already that we have very little morph stamina, thank you zenimax ...

The theoretical idea of no longer having to double (tripled even often on the overload utility bar) is skill is genial but losing statisque with each switch bar makes me sick like losing the 20% regen with each bar change ... And the bar switches are continual

twistedmonk · April 2018

why not make crystal blast a stamina skill?

sorcs dont really have any stamina DD and have to use dizzying swings which is not a pleasant experience (pvp).

being forced to build around 2-hander dizzying swings is not fun. repeat..not fun. its so slow and clunky and with all the lag, easily avoided. its not fun.

crystal blast stamina DD - thanks in advance. you will put this in game. you will...

I just checked and there are over a trillion people in the universe telling ZOS to make a spammable stamina based DD in the sorc class line.

the universe has spoken. this has been brought up millions and millions of times over the years and ZOS don't do nothing. well #TIMEUP - you WILL add a stamina spammable class skill ZOS, YOU WILL.

Minalan · April 2018

Any comments about streak being useless now that every stam user her silver leash with no cooldown or CC immunity?

And we get a cost increase stack on top of it all. When gap closers and silver leash gets neither.

HoloYoitsu · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Any comments about streak being useless now that every stam user her silver leash with no cooldown or CC immunity?

And we get a cost increase stack on top of it all. When gap closers and silver leash gets neither.

The only comments we're gona get are from the stamtatos whining about sorc shields being too stronk after they leash us in.

Subversus · April 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Since bound armor isn´t a toogle anymore, does the increased magicka/stamina carry over to the overload bar?
(Let say you´ve it slotted on your frontbar but not on your overload bar)

It does not carry over. Overload does not carry over anything from your normal bars, only weapon traits like nirnhoned will carry over.

I’m pretty sure traits don’t carry over to overload bar, but that might have changed. I used to play an overload build in vMA when we could stack 1000 ult and I specifically tested that because I didn’t have enough gold for sharpened 1h swords...

Or was it the twin blade and blunt passive that didn’t transfer? I can’t remember, all I remember is that I was doing as much damage with one mace and one axe as someone with two swords iirc.

Minalan · April 2018

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Any comments about streak being useless now that every stam user her silver leash with no cooldown or CC immunity?

And we get a cost increase stack on top of it all. When gap closers and silver leash gets neither.

The only comments we're gona get are from the stamtatos whining about sorc shields being too stronk after they leash us in.

It needs to be addressed. Stamina does not NEED a GAP CLOSER *and* a PULL in PVP. Period.

At the least, make silver leash only work on werewolf and vampire players, so those few of us left in the game without fangs or fur have a reason to do so.

It’s SILVER leash, and silver isn’t effective against normals. You can fix it in one line.

If (target.Isvamp or target.isdoggie) then target.relocate(middle_of_mindless_zerg);

I’m upset with this patch enough at this point to demand a preorder refund it’s so bad. But I’m willing to give it time, I just don’t see anything changing.

Getting chained by DK’s is all right, we can deal with it. It’s one class and they kind of need it, it’s part of their design. Getting leashed by stamina nightblades, stamina templars, and stamina Wardens is NOT OK. The tactical advantage of controlling someone else’s character and position is enormous, and it needs to be limited.

Dracane · April 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Since bound armor isn´t a toogle anymore, does the increased magicka/stamina carry over to the overload bar?
(Let say you´ve it slotted on your frontbar but not on your overload bar)

It does not carry over. Overload does not carry over anything from your normal bars, only weapon traits like nirnhoned will carry over.

I’m pretty sure traits don’t carry over to overload bar, but that might have changed. I used to play an overload build in vMA when we could stack 1000 ult and I specifically tested that because I didn’t have enough gold for sharpened 1h swords...

Or was it the twin blade and blunt passive that didn’t transfer? I can’t remember, all I remember is that I was doing as much damage with one mace and one axe as someone with two swords iirc.

I can safely guarantee you, that it does. I might not know much, but I know my mechanics.
And the only traits having an impact, are sharpened and nirnhoned. Others carry over too, but obviously won't be of relevant use.

And you are right about weapon passives not working on overload. For example ancient knowledge and that dual wield passive.

Dracane · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Any comments about streak being useless now that every stam user her silver leash with no cooldown or CC immunity?

And we get a cost increase stack on top of it all. When gap closers and silver leash gets neither.

The only comments we're gona get are from the stamtatos whining about sorc shields being too stronk after they leash us in.

It needs to be addressed. Stamina does not NEED a GAP CLOSER *and* a PULL in PVP. Period.

At the least, make silver leash only work on werewolf and vampire players, so those few of us left in the game without fangs or fur have a reason to do so.

It’s SILVER leash, and silver isn’t effective against normals. You can fix it in one line.

If (target.Isvamp or target.isdoggie) then target.relocate(middle_of_mindless_zerg);

I’m upset with this patch enough at this point to demand a preorder refund it’s so bad. But I’m willing to give it time, I just don’t see anything changing.

Getting chained by DK’s is all right, we can deal with it. It’s one class and they kind of need it, it’s part of their design. Getting leashed by stamina nightblades, stamina templars, and stamina Wardens is NOT OK. The tactical advantage of controlling someone else’s character and position is enormous, and it needs to be limited.

Honey, you know exactly that it's just a bug. Yes, silver leash is to stay, but it will be granting CC immunity after a fix.

Minalan · April 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Any comments about streak being useless now that every stam user her silver leash with no cooldown or CC immunity?

And we get a cost increase stack on top of it all. When gap closers and silver leash gets neither.

The only comments we're gona get are from the stamtatos whining about sorc shields being too stronk after they leash us in.

It needs to be addressed. Stamina does not NEED a GAP CLOSER *and* a PULL in PVP. Period.

At the least, make silver leash only work on werewolf and vampire players, so those few of us left in the game without fangs or fur have a reason to do so.

It’s SILVER leash, and silver isn’t effective against normals. You can fix it in one line.

If (target.Isvamp or target.isdoggie) then target.relocate(middle_of_mindless_zerg);

I’m upset with this patch enough at this point to demand a preorder refund it’s so bad. But I’m willing to give it time, I just don’t see anything changing.

Getting chained by DK’s is all right, we can deal with it. It’s one class and they kind of need it, it’s part of their design. Getting leashed by stamina nightblades, stamina templars, and stamina Wardens is NOT OK. The tactical advantage of controlling someone else’s character and position is enormous, and it needs to be limited.

Honey, you know exactly that it's just a bug. Yes, silver leash is to stay, but it will be granting CC immunity after a fix.

1. It shouldn’t be, it’s spammable now and that’s ridiculous.

2. You have a lot more faith in ZOS than I do lately. I sincerely hope they live up to it.