PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance

Savos_Saren · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Here's some more constructive feedback for ZOS:

After testing Empowering Chains- I still suggest changing the skill to give minor vulnerability to the target for 2 seconds instead of Empowering the next two light attacks.

Reason: mDKs will often slot DW, SnB, or any combination thereof. Two light attacks using stamina based weapons on a magicka-based character isn't worthwhile. However, ALL DKs (stamina and magicka) both could benefit with minor vunerability on the target.

Why would u use dual wield over a fire staff next patch ?

@Aedaryl I use SnB... but I'd imagine someone wanting to use DW swords for one Nirnhoned mainhand and Sharpened offhand weapon.

Aedaryl · April 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Here's some more constructive feedback for ZOS:

After testing Empowering Chains- I still suggest changing the skill to give minor vulnerability to the target for 2 seconds instead of Empowering the next two light attacks.

Reason: mDKs will often slot DW, SnB, or any combination thereof. Two light attacks using stamina based weapons on a magicka-based character isn't worthwhile. However, ALL DKs (stamina and magicka) both could benefit with minor vunerability on the target.

Why would u use dual wield over a fire staff next patch ?

@Aedaryl I use SnB... but I'd imagine someone wanting to use DW swords for one Nirnhoned mainhand and Sharpened offhand weapon.

I think the 8% destro staff damage with the possibility to have ranged fire light attacks is better in all points.

The bad thing about it is you need to slot a destro ability (elemental drain).

BohnT · April 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Here's some more constructive feedback for ZOS:

After testing Empowering Chains- I still suggest changing the skill to give minor vulnerability to the target for 2 seconds instead of Empowering the next two light attacks.

Reason: mDKs will often slot DW, SnB, or any combination thereof. Two light attacks using stamina based weapons on a magicka-based character isn't worthwhile. However, ALL DKs (stamina and magicka) both could benefit with minor vunerability on the target.

Why would u use dual wield over a fire staff next patch ?

@Aedaryl I use SnB... but I'd imagine someone wanting to use DW swords for one Nirnhoned mainhand and Sharpened offhand weapon.

That's a huge damage loss now and an even bigger on next patch. Running any magchar without using staves next patch is just a cripple for your build

Savos_Saren · April 2018

Kilandros wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I still think that they should change Stone Giant into a physical damage skill (and cost stamina). Our medium armor stamDK brethren could use the resistances.

Then, change Obsidian Shard to fire damage and raise the damage value up. That way, healers and mag DPS could both benefit from the skills.

It's another win/win for stam and mag DKs and it'll make Stone Fist more appealing to use in general.

The ability just needs a total redesign. No class needs two single-target stuns. What ZOS should do is make Stone Fist into something like Assassin's Will: a 10-second buff with a proc effect. One morph is stamina, one is magicka or healing. The beauty of a proc is you don't run into issues with having a stamina spammable in the same line as Helping Hands.

@Kilandros

What buff would you suggest? As for having a stamina spammable in the same lines as Helping Hands- remember, if the skill costs stamina- they're not going to spam it.

I still think my suggestion would be helpful as a quick fix before Summerset. A complete redesign may take some time.

Side note: I was running Maelstrom Arena last night while using Obsidian Shard... its "smart heal" heals NPC in the crowd.

Minor heroism. Stamina morph is a melee AoE damage proc. Magicka morph is a melee AoE heal proc. I don't know what I'd recommend for proc conditions. Not light attacks.

Who knows what ZOS will do to the skill in order to make it more appealing. I actually use Stone Giant in PVP and it helps stop speedsters from escaping during group play. I actually like the skill a lot- but I'd be willing to give it up to stamina characters for a harder hitting Obsidian Shard.

BohnT · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Here's some more constructive feedback for ZOS:

After testing Empowering Chains- I still suggest changing the skill to give minor vulnerability to the target for 2 seconds instead of Empowering the next two light attacks.

Reason: mDKs will often slot DW, SnB, or any combination thereof. Two light attacks using stamina based weapons on a magicka-based character isn't worthwhile. However, ALL DKs (stamina and magicka) both could benefit with minor vunerability on the target.

Why would u use dual wield over a fire staff next patch ?

@Aedaryl I use SnB... but I'd imagine someone wanting to use DW swords for one Nirnhoned mainhand and Sharpened offhand weapon.

I think the 8% destro staff damage with the possibility to have ranged fire light attacks is better in all points.

The bad thing about it is you need to slot a destro ability (elemental drain).

Slotting ele drain is a good thing (4x more pen than sharpened 1h and 600 magregen when you have a dot on the enemy)
+ even more magsustain with heavy attacks
+ much more damage via weaving
...
Running DW is a cripple for your magicka build in the next patch

BohnT · April 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I still think that they should change Stone Giant into a physical damage skill (and cost stamina). Our medium armor stamDK brethren could use the resistances.

Then, change Obsidian Shard to fire damage and raise the damage value up. That way, healers and mag DPS could both benefit from the skills.

It's another win/win for stam and mag DKs and it'll make Stone Fist more appealing to use in general.

The ability just needs a total redesign. No class needs two single-target stuns. What ZOS should do is make Stone Fist into something like Assassin's Will: a 10-second buff with a proc effect. One morph is stamina, one is magicka or healing. The beauty of a proc is you don't run into issues with having a stamina spammable in the same line as Helping Hands.

@Kilandros

What buff would you suggest? As for having a stamina spammable in the same lines as Helping Hands- remember, if the skill costs stamina- they're not going to spam it.

I still think my suggestion would be helpful as a quick fix before Summerset. A complete redesign may take some time.

Side note: I was running Maelstrom Arena last night while using Obsidian Shard... its "smart heal" heals NPC in the crowd.

Minor heroism. Stamina morph is a melee AoE damage proc. Magicka morph is a melee AoE heal proc. I don't know what I'd recommend for proc conditions. Not light attacks.

Who knows what ZOS will do to the skill in order to make it more appealing. I actually use Stone Giant in PVP and it helps stop speedsters from escaping during group play. I actually like the skill a lot- but I'd be willing to give it up to stamina characters for a harder hitting Obsidian Shard.

Do you really think Zos will make this skill ever useable? They changed it almost every patch for one year now and still no one uses it because it's so bad.
Turning it into a will like ability might solve the problem but things like minor heroism can't be granted on non target skills. Also which proc conditions could be chosen?
LA/ HA like Will is pretty boring.
Using earthen heart abilities is stupid as they aren't designed to be spammed
Blocking incoming damage ~ no control over the proc and forces block builds

Also why an AoE skill? Stamdk isn't even good in ST burst so an AoE proc that isn't delayed doesn't fix one of the main issues of stamdk (lack of burst)

ak_pvp · April 2018

Why don't they make stone fist the pull.

Rename stone grasp. Then the current damage morph of stone fist becomes tectonics, and returns mag if the target isn't pulled, and the current heal morph becomes volcanic grasp, no longer pulling, but applying life/mag steal to the boss. This makes the overall ability a tank/heal utility one, rather than a weird stun/damage/heal thing, and a pull works better as a ground based ability, rather than a random chain.

Then chains can become a dedicated gapcloser, or even better, no longer gapclose, but be a totally new skill, maybe something with a StamDK focus.

Kilandros · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I still think that they should change Stone Giant into a physical damage skill (and cost stamina). Our medium armor stamDK brethren could use the resistances.

Then, change Obsidian Shard to fire damage and raise the damage value up. That way, healers and mag DPS could both benefit from the skills.

It's another win/win for stam and mag DKs and it'll make Stone Fist more appealing to use in general.

The ability just needs a total redesign. No class needs two single-target stuns. What ZOS should do is make Stone Fist into something like Assassin's Will: a 10-second buff with a proc effect. One morph is stamina, one is magicka or healing. The beauty of a proc is you don't run into issues with having a stamina spammable in the same line as Helping Hands.

@Kilandros

What buff would you suggest? As for having a stamina spammable in the same lines as Helping Hands- remember, if the skill costs stamina- they're not going to spam it.

I still think my suggestion would be helpful as a quick fix before Summerset. A complete redesign may take some time.

Side note: I was running Maelstrom Arena last night while using Obsidian Shard... its "smart heal" heals NPC in the crowd.

Minor heroism. Stamina morph is a melee AoE damage proc. Magicka morph is a melee AoE heal proc. I don't know what I'd recommend for proc conditions. Not light attacks.

Who knows what ZOS will do to the skill in order to make it more appealing. I actually use Stone Giant in PVP and it helps stop speedsters from escaping during group play. I actually like the skill a lot- but I'd be willing to give it up to stamina characters for a harder hitting Obsidian Shard.

Do you really think Zos will make this skill ever useable? They changed it almost every patch for one year now and still no one uses it because it's so bad.
Turning it into a will like ability might solve the problem but things like minor heroism can't be granted on non target skills. Also which proc conditions could be chosen?
LA/ HA like Will is pretty boring.
Using earthen heart abilities is stupid as they aren't designed to be spammed
Blocking incoming damage ~ no control over the proc and forces block builds

Also why an AoE skill? Stamdk isn't even good in ST burst so an AoE proc that isn't delayed doesn't fix one of the main issues of stamdk (lack of burst)

PROPOSE A SOLUTION THEN

All you do is complain FFS

reiverx · April 2018

On the PVP side does it look like magDK will be able to drop sword n shield or are we still stuck with it?

BohnT · April 2018

Kilandros wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I still think that they should change Stone Giant into a physical damage skill (and cost stamina). Our medium armor stamDK brethren could use the resistances.

Then, change Obsidian Shard to fire damage and raise the damage value up. That way, healers and mag DPS could both benefit from the skills.

It's another win/win for stam and mag DKs and it'll make Stone Fist more appealing to use in general.

The ability just needs a total redesign. No class needs two single-target stuns. What ZOS should do is make Stone Fist into something like Assassin's Will: a 10-second buff with a proc effect. One morph is stamina, one is magicka or healing. The beauty of a proc is you don't run into issues with having a stamina spammable in the same line as Helping Hands.

@Kilandros

What buff would you suggest? As for having a stamina spammable in the same lines as Helping Hands- remember, if the skill costs stamina- they're not going to spam it.

I still think my suggestion would be helpful as a quick fix before Summerset. A complete redesign may take some time.

Side note: I was running Maelstrom Arena last night while using Obsidian Shard... its "smart heal" heals NPC in the crowd.

Minor heroism. Stamina morph is a melee AoE damage proc. Magicka morph is a melee AoE heal proc. I don't know what I'd recommend for proc conditions. Not light attacks.

Who knows what ZOS will do to the skill in order to make it more appealing. I actually use Stone Giant in PVP and it helps stop speedsters from escaping during group play. I actually like the skill a lot- but I'd be willing to give it up to stamina characters for a harder hitting Obsidian Shard.

Do you really think Zos will make this skill ever useable? They changed it almost every patch for one year now and still no one uses it because it's so bad.
Turning it into a will like ability might solve the problem but things like minor heroism can't be granted on non target skills. Also which proc conditions could be chosen?
LA/ HA like Will is pretty boring.
Using earthen heart abilities is stupid as they aren't designed to be spammed
Blocking incoming damage ~ no control over the proc and forces block builds

Also why an AoE skill? Stamdk isn't even good in ST burst so an AoE proc that isn't delayed doesn't fix one of the main issues of stamdk (lack of burst)

PROPOSE A SOLUTION THEN

All you do is complain FFS

Here are the reasons why Stamdk is weak in PvP:

Stamdk has huge problems in PvP:
1. They are the spec which takes the most damage in open world pvp. Stamdk has the least ways to avoid damage while having the worst effective healing on top of that.
Nightblades can avoid all damage as long as their cloak doesn't break and they can also remove all further pressure from skills with shadow image by using it wisely and hindering your enemy totally to attack you. They might have weak healing but overall they have great survivability from not taking damage in the first place.
Templars Templars feature the same crappy mobility as DKs. However they can completely remove the full damage of dots and Skoria aswell as other debuffs making their healing better as they don't face defiles like other classes have to. They can't get away however limiting their lifespan to the point where the next zerg tries to kill you.
Sorcs With shields sorcs have a set amount of burst "heal" they can utilise whenever they please and in PvP Burst > Dots/Hots. Aswell as the ability to negate all magicka based ranged damage aswell as the ability to create a gap between you and your enemy that he physically can't close which sets their damage to the dots they applied to you before you escaped.
Wardenhave a burst heal as often as they needed along with a great defensive ult that can reach a uptime of almost 100% which makes you invulnerable against atleast 2 enemies. Along with great mobility due to snare reduction and 100% major expedition uptime they can reduce the incoming damage from all meele classes ,which don't have access to major expedition by a lot. As their skills won't connect due to you being out of range. And they can negate 100% of all magicka based ranged damage as long as they want with shimmering shield

Stamdk are forced to eat all meele, dot & most magicka based ranged damage. Wings only reflect a small portion of all skills while being too expensive to be kept up 100% of the time. As an result dk has to rely on dither dodge rolls which is too expensive and too bad with the amount of undodgeable skills in the game or block. Block reduces all direct damage but most dots go through it aswell as shalks, curse and PotL+ can be countered by 3 classes with CCs.
As DK has no mobility by itself they are locked into using Forward Momentum and Vigor as healing which gets increased by 25% with major mending and 12% by Passives. This sounds great but with defiles one player can reduce that with no point into befoul to 7%.
This sets a limit for DKs how much damage they can take before they will die after a set amount of time.
With the lack of mobility their live ends as soon as an enemy zerg is attacking them or is trying to get to them.

On an average day of PvP my deaths through the classes look something like this:
NB: 0-5 Deaths (depending how often i get marked or soultrapped)
Sorc: 0-10 Death (depending on shieldbreaker usage and personal fails)
Warden: 3-10 (few times where zergs actually catch me)
Templar: 10-25 (depending how often zergs try to kill me -5 as this is how often I normally can still get away)
DK: X>15 (equals the amount I fight multiple decent people or a zerg attacks me)

2. They are also the class which relies the most on your enemy to be bad.
As a DK your burst is very weak and completely build around Leap or Dawnbreaker with another skill.
Leap is really unreliable in open world as it can be dodged (thanks for saying it can't be Wrobel, I encounter it 10 times a day when using leap) and the damage of leap might be great but it can be blocked and it is never enough to one shot anyone so you need another skill.

Heroic Slash doesn't deal enough damage to finish more tanky players
Dizzying Swing has great damage but the cast time and the fact that can be dodged, blocked or removed by walking through the caster makes it too slow and too easy, to avoid for good players which won't die to one leap.
As you can't kill your enemies fast enough other people will arrive and at one time you reach the point where they simply kill you and there is nothing you can do, you can't escape, you can't tank them you can only think where to respawn

3. The main sustain stamdk has gets counteracted by the way pvp is played.
Battle roar completely relies on how often you use your ults but ults are not ment to be used mindelessly they are either used to burst down enemies or to survive the pressure when you have to go to defend yourself.

This all comes together making stamdk a bad choice for pvp overall as every class has at least one aspect where they truly outshine stamdk.
I'm not saying you can't do well on a DK but you will be much more effective on any other class

And here are the ideas to make Stamdk a viable class again:

1. Change 1 of the following skills to be a high damage, instant, dodgeable & blockable, meele single target Stamina based spamamble:
Stone Giant (in the following reffered to as SG) or Noxious Breath ( i. t. f. reffered to as NB):
Reasoning and Implementation:
Both skills aren't used by most dks, SG isn't used by any DK, the damage is weak, the buff it grants is lackluster and it's magicka based while magdks already have a great CC and spammable. Noxious Breath is used in PvE but only as another Dot for DPS.
If you choose SG to be the new Spammable: Set the damage somewhere between Suprise attack and Heroic slash, the cost should be higher than Whip, as a secondary effect Keep the minor ward an minor resolve buffs but add minor breach as a Debuff to it.
If you Chose NB: The damage should be equal to suprise attack but poison based. The Major fracture debuff should be changed with minor savagery + minor endurance for 4 seconds

If These changes happen you have to look at the Performance in PvE meaning, you have to test how much DPS the new Spammable contributes in a perfectly optimized Rotation and how much damage the main spammable and in case of NB the dot contributed.
Equal this difference in dps by nerfing Venemous claws a bit (this should be 1% damage nerf max to Venemous claws)

2. Change Reflective Plate to remove all snares and granting you 2 seconds of immunity + 0.75 seconds per reflected projectile during the Duration.
3. Deep Breath took a huge nerf with the changes to Interrupts. As Stamdk lacks burst a delayed burst ability like Deep Breath works perfectly and doesn't affect PvE much as Drain Essence is the better Morph there (excpet for vMol twins)
Make it Stamina based, reduce the damage and healing of the first hit by 40% but increase the damage of the second hit by 25% and remove the Interrupt effect of the ability.

These changes would give stamdk more burst, better survivability and more class identity but they wouldn't make stamdk viable enough.

There are several useless passives which are a joke compared to the passives of Warden, Nightblades or Sorcs.

Elder Dragon: Get rid of the Health Regeneration and Change it to grant you 35 mag and stam everytime you are hit with a .5 second cooldown this will result in a 140 mag and stam Regeneration if you are actually fighting

Mountain's Blessing: DKs are the class which build their sustain around ultimates although they have the worst ultimate Regeneration in the game. Increase the amount of ultimate granted from 3 to 5 seconds to help Overall sustain and viability.

These changes will help stamdk being a viable class in PvP with a true identity and not being left as an empty Shell which tries to Keep the memories of better times alive

There you go. Stop crying that i disagree with every idea of you because they are bad.

AddictionX · April 2018

To be honest there are posters I typically skip I imagine others do the same. Spamming a thread with the same things over and over again isn't healthy for people who want to give input.

It's not like ZOS is going to take it and implement anything exactly as people want if they do take something from this thread. It'll be an adjusted version of it.

DK is a pressure class, not a burst class. The Devs have stated this back when they first gave us those stamina morphs during the thieves guild update. They won't give us a stamina whip.

Ever wonder why peoples input doesn't go through... that is because they state they want something for a class and people ask for the thing they stated they won't do. They don't want to give a stamina spammable. Ask for things they WILL DO!

Like snare immunity on wings. (I would love for it to be stamina.) Either way snare immunity is needed.

Corrosive armor is too costly for its duration. Feels outdated. Reducing its duration is a no go, its duration needs to be increased in accordance with its cost or cost reduction is needed. The range on this ability for how weak the Dot needs to be increased.

ARDENT FLAME TREE:

Shifting standard needs to cost 200 or less. It also needs to be placeable ANYWHERE in a 20ish meter range. (Would be nice if it gave minor cowardice in its radius but if its duration is decreased to work like a silencing ability then it would be great against the lag creating ball groups.) Hell I would be great if it was a stun too... turn it into a Burst skill.

Noxious breath conal attack needs to be changed into an AOE ability. It's too easy to miss even on elevation. (Instead of it applying major fracture debuff, give it one of the following.... minor magicka steal, minor health steal, hell I don't know ....defile.) So as long as its a AOE ability without the fracture debuff.

Unrelenting Grip... stamina ability. with a 1 second root or something. Would really like it to do damage if successfully pulled and knockdown effect. So like pull an enemy to you punch it knocking it down. This would be hilarious. It would also be USEFULL! But after a successful pull, a knockdown would be great.

Flames of Oblivion ... while active granting major savagery/prophecy instead of having to slot it on both bars to get the buff.

Combustion ... while the target is affected by a fire/poison DOT! NOT a status effect.

Warmth.... snare ... the world would be a better place without snares.But whatever it needs something else. Instead of snares. How about the opposite Rank II "attacking an enemy with an ardent flame ability grants major expedition for 4 seconds."

DRACONIC POWER TREE:

Spiked armor and its morphs return x magic damage or x physical damage based whichever is higher!
Harden Armor instead of a HEALTH based shield have the shield scale with Magicka or Stamina but remove its Major ward/Resolve buff. No longer returning damage.

Inhale give one of the morphs to stamina. Sort of Delayed burst skill.

Iron skin very niche and outdated. Updated would be a flat out damage reduction percentage or resist Critical damage.

Elder dragon health regen while slotted .... really should be health, stamina, magicka for each ability active. 5 percent.

Scaled armor spell resistance but no physical resistance?

EARTHEN HEART

Stone Giant so tossing a rock does physical MAGICKA DAMAGE! Well im not concered too much with this skill but I would really like this to shoot up the ground from underneath. Also an AOE knockdown. So like punch/stomp the ground instead and up comes a rock uppercutting.

Battle Roar: If your above 26,000 it will be a nerf. Yet at 26,000 you'll find that your skill do not have enough damage/heal to compete with a stacked resource build. i.e. any Damage dealer. This needs to be adjusted to it being a nerf if your above 30,000-32,000 instead of something so low at 26,000.

Helping hands: Flat resource return needed not only to be reverted but even then needed a buff.

This will be a buff if your Maximum Stamina is below 19,800 and a reduction if it is above. Who is running around with 19,800 other than magicka DKs.

Not to mention each skill on most of our trees are significantly more expensive than they should be. These skills where made when other conditions were present that are NO LONGER present.

Durham · April 2018

-Green Dragon Blood needs a stam morph... and scale off stam..
-Ingenious Shields needs to be re-thought maybe scale off stam ( the morph that increases major mending)
-Armor buff is nice only if you want to knock stealthers out of stealth... 1 slot for a spell that is just used for armor hurts the DK and expensive...
-Claw needs to be stronger upfront and weaker on the back in end..
-Breath is to slow ....
-flames of oblivion could give major crit on both bars for 15 secs .. similar to the Warden crit buff...

This is just a start of some ideas I have..

casparian · April 2018

Durham wrote: »

-Green Dragon Blood needs a stam morph... and scale off stam..
-Ingenious Shields needs to be re-thought maybe scale off stam ( the morph that increases major mending)
-Armor buff is nice only if you want to knock stealthers out of stealth... 1 slot for a spell that is just used for armor hurts the DK and expensive...
-Claw needs to be stronger upfront and weaker on the back in end..
-Breath is to slow ....
-flames of oblivion could give major crit on both bars for 15 secs .. similar to the Warden crit buff...

This is just a start of some ideas I have..

4/5 classes need to slot a spell just for the armor buff. Templars get regen or vitality in addition, Wardens get minor protection in addition, sorcerers get a PBAOE in addition, and DKs get the ability to pull nightblades out of stealth in addition. Seems pretty balanced to me. It would be nice, though, if stamDKs could take advantage of the Volatile DOT as well as mDKs can.

BohnT · April 2018

Durham wrote: »

-Green Dragon Blood needs a stam morph... and scale off stam..
-Ingenious Shields needs to be re-thought maybe scale off stam ( the morph that increases major mending)
-Armor buff is nice only if you want to knock stealthers out of stealth... 1 slot for a spell that is just used for armor hurts the DK and expensive...
-Claw needs to be stronger upfront and weaker on the back in end..
-Breath is to slow ....
-flames of oblivion could give major crit on both bars for 15 secs .. similar to the Warden crit buff...

This is just a start of some ideas I have..

a clear no on a Stamina green Dragon blood. We can currently see what a Stamina spec with Access to a burst heal can do (stamwarden). changing it into a Rally like heal would be better for Overall Balance as stam shouldn't have Access to a spammable burst heal.

Same goes for a Stamina scaling shield, we had bone shield on pts for 2 weeks and it was completely broken. The curren Version on pts really is decent and was a buff for DKs.

I already talked about how a Stamina volatile armor doesn't do much

Other Things Sound good but claw might mess up the rotations in pve but not sure on that.

#stamspammableforDK

Durham · April 2018

I like the rally like heal idea ... but I agree a spam burst heal would be inbalanced...

Stam scale with out 200% bonus shield was were I was going.. maybe I have my morphs wrong.. but I thought they extended major mending but reduced the shield to less then 1k in pvp...

I prefer the claw to more burst with small dot on the back end .. with no overall reduction in damage overall.. you will still need 10 secs to get the full damage..

Breath seems slow in PVP seems to miss a great deal..

Stam DK does need something that's a fact ... I support any enhancement to the stam DK...

BohnT · April 2018

Durham wrote: »

I like the rally like heal idea ... but I agree a spam burst heal would be inbalanced...

Stam scale with out 200% bonus shield was were I was going.. maybe I have my morphs wrong.. but I thought they extended major mending but reduced the shield to less then 1k in pvp...

I prefer the claw to more burst with small dot on the back end .. with no overall reduction in damage overall.. you will still need 10 secs to get the full damage..

Breath seems slow in PVP seems to miss a great deal..

Stam DK does need something that's a fact ... I support any enhancement to the stam DK...

Yeah the shield is rather small but tbh i only noticed that i have the shield when i got hit by shieldbreaker

Main problem i have with noxious is that it does weak damage, is rather costly and doesn't really hit well with lag.

And yes stamdk needs something but some people here on feel like standing up for this is bad behaviour

ecru · April 2018

StamDK needs an execute because of how good bloodthirsty is. I have the feeling that it will be the weakest dps class besides Warden (behind all other mag/stam) in Summerset.

Toc de Malsvi · April 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Why don't they make stone fist the pull.

Rename stone grasp. Then the current damage morph of stone fist becomes tectonics, and returns mag if the target isn't pulled, and the current heal morph becomes volcanic grasp, no longer pulling, but applying life/mag steal to the boss. This makes the overall ability a tank/heal utility one, rather than a weird stun/damage/heal thing, and a pull works better as a ground based ability, rather than a random chain.

Then chains can become a dedicated gapcloser, or even better, no longer gapclose, but be a totally new skill, maybe something with a StamDK focus.

I love this idea.

exeeter702 · April 2018

Dragath wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

DK Skill Changes Thoughts... (just my thoughts, whatever)

Cauterize (Inferno morph): Nice for the increased range but the heal is still rather weak. I would much rather have the massive burst heal be from this skill or the heal be reduced to every three seconds. Either or I think would do the trick. However in it's current state the heal it too little and too long a wait.

Idk about you but a heal that easilu crits for 7k in pvp and 16k in pve in trials, for under 2k magicka is not weak and that isnt even considering how easy it is for dks to augment on demand heals with major mending. The wait factor is also entirely redundant since you hit the ability at any point and it will immediately fire the heal. Remaining passively active to spot heal while you are doing other actions is the additional perk. Just for comparison....

Again there are way too many people putting this under the lense of how it effects certain dk specs that these skills arent even designed for. Cauterize is very good and the 28 meter buff along with the significant projectile speed buff it recently received will make this a very formidable healing ability.

i'm curoius, what were your stats and buffs for the cauterize tooltip?
because using the same stats on templar and magdk leaves me with a 11k tooltip on breath of life and a 6,2k tooltip on cauterize. either those two screenshots were taken with a totally different setup that is vastly biased or something else is going on.
would like to know whats the issue here.

Just for clarity...

Active buffs and effects that effect tool tip

SPC 5 piece
Major Sorcery
Minor Sorcery Templar in group
2% healing done monster set
2% healing done Jorvuld's
9% healing done Powered Resto staff
Ritual Mundus
5% healing done Argonian passive
14% healing done 75 pts in blessed
Major mending for the cauterize tool tip
Minor mending for the BOL tool tip

Kegluneq · April 2018

Regarding the morphs of Obsidian Shield and the way the morphs were redesigned. Before summerset Igneous shield used to be healing option and fragmented the dps/tank option so healer players will most likely have Igneous Shield ranked to 4 and dps/tank players will most likely have Fragmented Shield ranked to 4. Now with summerset we get Fragmented Shield being the healer morph and Igneous Shield being the dps/tank morph. Wouldn't make more sense to switch them to keep the ranks one already might have worked towards before update 18? aka Igneous be the mending and fragmented be the increased shield?

Sincerely, a puzzled guar.

P.S. Am I in the right place to post such comment? (Thanks in advance)

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Kegluneq
Yeah you're in the right spot mate

Anti_Virus · April 2018

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

My personal experience prior to PTS:
Personally I do very very well on my Stam DK. I do not feel disadvantaged in pvp outside of facing a few good mag DKs who use wings. I win the majority of my BG matches while solo que and I get a considerable amount of killing blows without a proper execute. I do not expect to win every match or every fight, I am quite happy to get 14-20 kills and have 4-5 deaths in a BG. I regularly reach 1mil total damage, here is a recent high point during DragonBones:

The statement made by so many that any player could perform better on another class than on a stam DK is purely anecdotal. It would be virtually impossible to remove the many sources of bias and error in testing a players performance between classes. Much of a players performance has more to do with their gaming style and preference in relation to specific class composition rather than a classes benefits or deficiencies, and that is completely beside the fact that their performance is also dependent upon their opponents. There are far too many dependencies to make that claim and retain a shred of reasoned respect. Individual players may feel that way about a specific class but attempting to state personal experiences and feelings as universal facts is ludicrous.

Since the PTS has dropped for Summerset I have spent the majority of my time in PVP, fights are few and far between. I have tried out 7-8 different setups and dualed somewhere between 20-30 people. I have taken keeps and resources and played around with guards just to see how they changed. In those duals I only encountered 2 people I did not beat at all, of those two only one did I dual more than twice and on more than two setups. Not surprisingly that player was a mag DK with wings, the other player was a stam DK. Of the rest of the duals I won as many or more of my fights between players, some I traded 2-2 others I won 4-1 or more.

So I do not think that stam DK's are on the verge of irrelevance, nor do I think they are in some kind of ridiculous dilemma. They are very probably not on top of the meta based on so many players opinions. However my experience is that they are doing just fine.

That's great that you belive that stam Dk is fine but like you said your experiences and opinion is purely anecdotal and doesn't reflect the opinion of the majority.

I myself can easily get a score card like that in pvp but it doesn't mean DK is strong. If we go by that logic I could get the same results ok Magic Warden does that mean that the class is fine too? No as others have said good performance on one class which is severely lacking class skills/utility means nothing when performance can be exceeded exponentially on a well designed class.

You think stam DK is fine? Cool I disagree but don't force your opinion on others
Keep the thread on actual feedback not back and forth bickering over subjective opinions.

Anti_Virus · April 2018

@AddictionX

Can you please link a post or stream where the devs stated they will not give stam dk a stam whip? This type of communication is needed if this is true I will be glad and will stop asking for it and any other changes that they say they will not implement.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Anti_Virus
I've got the link

It's in that video somewhere.

@Toc de Malsvi
Referencing a single encounter of battlegrounds isn't evidence that Stamina DK is doing well. We don't know if you fought under level players in battlegrounds, players who aren't decent or pretty new to the game, or if you fought in an organized group.
I could say because I became Emperor on my Stam DK that dictates that they're fine in PvP when that is far from the truth.

Toc de Malsvi · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Anti_Virus
I've got the link
https://twitch.tv/videos/44145484
It's in that video somewhere.

@Toc de Malsvi
Referencing a single encounter of battlegrounds isn't evidence that Stamina DK is doing well. We don't know if you fought under level players in battlegrounds, players who aren't decent or pretty new to the game, or if you fought in an organized group.
I could say because I became Emperor on my Stam DK that dictates that they're fine in PvP when that is far from the truth.

@MaxwellC
I certainly wasn't playing great players or I wouldn't have gotten 33 kills. And absolutely one game does not merit game changes or balance. I merely was pointing out that not everyone has the same experience in PVP.

I do not have issues with performance on my stam DK. I FEEL stronger on my stam Sorc but my overall scores do not hardly change. If anything I would say the DK FEELs much weaker than it is.

The class skills in particular do not feel rewarding, they often feel punishing. The additional healing boosts and resources from ultimates are extremely helpful. I often survive when at extremely low health on my DK where I would have died on my warden, NB or Sorc.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Toc de Malsvi
I get where ya coming from, I don't struggle in PvP unless I'm facing 'The build' but other classes seem way stronger than the DK class. Warden IMO is broken with the amount of strong heals they've got going for them on the stamina side; IMO it's stronger than DKs heals.

I really hope some changes are being done to finally address the issues we've been facing for quite a long time.

Toc de Malsvi · April 2018

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

My personal experience prior to PTS:
Personally I do very very well on my Stam DK. I do not feel disadvantaged in pvp outside of facing a few good mag DKs who use wings. I win the majority of my BG matches while solo que and I get a considerable amount of killing blows without a proper execute. I do not expect to win every match or every fight, I am quite happy to get 14-20 kills and have 4-5 deaths in a BG. I regularly reach 1mil total damage, here is a recent high point during DragonBones:

The statement made by so many that any player could perform better on another class than on a stam DK is purely anecdotal. It would be virtually impossible to remove the many sources of bias and error in testing a players performance between classes. Much of a players performance has more to do with their gaming style and preference in relation to specific class composition rather than a classes benefits or deficiencies, and that is completely beside the fact that their performance is also dependent upon their opponents. There are far too many dependencies to make that claim and retain a shred of reasoned respect. Individual players may feel that way about a specific class but attempting to state personal experiences and feelings as universal facts is ludicrous.

Since the PTS has dropped for Summerset I have spent the majority of my time in PVP, fights are few and far between. I have tried out 7-8 different setups and dualed somewhere between 20-30 people. I have taken keeps and resources and played around with guards just to see how they changed. In those duals I only encountered 2 people I did not beat at all, of those two only one did I dual more than twice and on more than two setups. Not surprisingly that player was a mag DK with wings, the other player was a stam DK. Of the rest of the duals I won as many or more of my fights between players, some I traded 2-2 others I won 4-1 or more.

So I do not think that stam DK's are on the verge of irrelevance, nor do I think they are in some kind of ridiculous dilemma. They are very probably not on top of the meta based on so many players opinions. However my experience is that they are doing just fine.

That's great that you belive that stam Dk is fine but like you said your experiences and opinion is purely anecdotal and doesn't reflect the opinion of the majority.

I myself can easily get a score card like that in pvp but it doesn't mean DK is strong. If we go by that logic I could get the same results ok Magic Warden does that mean that the class is fine too? No as others have said good performance on one class which is severely lacking class skills/utility means nothing when performance can be exceeded exponentially on a well designed class.

You think stam DK is fine? Cool I disagree but don't force your opinion on others
Keep the thread on actual feedback not back and forth bickering over subjective opinions.

Did you even read what you wrote? Or what I was responding to?

I would love to see your exponential increase of 33 kills zero deaths. Just squaring that is over 1000 kills and I really don't think thats a possibility in a single battleground.

If you cared to notice I have provided plenty of feedback. And I have stated things as from my experience and as my feelings as opposed to many other posters here. At no point did I force my opinion, in fact it is quite the opposite. I merely stated my opinion from PLAYING the PTS and you decided to "bicker" with me about it.

Savos_Saren · April 2018

Guys- stop with this bickering between Stam and Magicka DKs. Every. Damn. Time.

You derail the constructive feedback. Just stop. Send each other private forum messages.

Continuing on:

@ZOS_GinaBruno

More constructive feeback from PTS:

I've looked at a few of my characters from PTS- Something's off with the resistances. It appears that my spell resist is higher than it normally is on live. I'm using the same character template. It looks like it's about 800 points higher. This is probably a bug?

ecru · April 2018

i like how we can't have any discussion about stamdk in pve because everything is drowned out by pvp discussion

oh well

Abysswarrior45 · April 2018

Need a stam whip ZOS. Stam dk is dead right now, and will remain dead even after the changes seen in patch notes unless you do more. Really would like to be able to deal dmg open world pvp.