PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance

jeskah · April 2018

akray21 wrote: »

I have not read through all the posts here, so I am not sure how many people are talking about StamSorc, but they need something more in PvP IMO. BUT... LA build might be strong?

Depends on sustain IMHO.

mobe94 · April 2018

Feel like this update made non overload magicka sorc op too, people clame that we dont have enough burst but the change on staff light attack and being counted as 2 piece + new sets made the damage damn high.
I use 3 active proc sets while having good sustain go -> caluurion + siroria + skoria (siroria is a fire aoe dot that can proc skoria good for pve and pvp imo).
People who loves BG we will be king since every one gonna play deadmatch anyway lol.

mobe94 · April 2018

For people that wants a snare skill removal lets make the pet skill transfert your snare effect to the pet this change will make people try pet build in pvp what do you think about it?

Beardimus · April 2018

DPShiro wrote: »

Bound Aegis should have the light attacks bonus as well

Oooh now we're talking

Beardimus · April 2018

Aznox wrote: »

Is it me or has this thread transformed into a Christmas wish list without any relevance to the long list of announced changes affecting the sorcerer class ?

Partly because we have been given a load of stuff we don't want, and not the stuff we need.

We have better health, blocking, static defence. We can stand still and Tank when we want to be mobile and bursty.

Minalan · April 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Since the devs like charts and graphs, how about this one?
(Credit to Reddington James for this!)

See anything wrong with this chart? Look at the Sorc buffs and debuffs we have access to. Think we can please add a little something to crystal fragments procs?

It’s our ONE offensive ability that isn’t on a purgable timer, it has a 66% chance to not proc, and it typically hits for about 7K.

Please add a buff or debuff effect to crystal fragments morph: Maim. Breach. Defile. Force. Vulnerability. Berserk. Pick one, we’ll be overjoyed with any minor buff or debuff at this point.

To be fair some of those buffs comes from skills seldom used. Sorcs are not meant to be debuffers but over power thier opponent with raw magical POWAAAARRRRRR... SO plz gives frags it's damage back

First off, I agree on the frags. Though I think a short breach debuff would be more in line with the skill than a little more damage.

Also I’d love to have the problem of powerful buffs on skills that ‘I seldom use’. Hell, I’d almost consider slotting a pet if it gave me major heroism and ultimate generation like Wardens.

Other than the broken overload skill (lol), I’m not really feeling the ‘more power!’ thing.

mobe94 · April 2018

And by the way hardened ward give a little less shield than dampen magic now...

Dyride · April 2018

IARTOI wrote: »

I have only one thing to share about sorcerers. The "Mage's Fury Explosion" + Implosion passive causing bug sometimes. This bug is when you are in combat while have more than 30% HP (40%-50%) and got hit by mages fury explosion its instantly killing you but in death recap we can only see endless fury explosion not the implosion. So what is killing you?

My suggestion is remove (change) implosion passive but also increase the endless fury execution percentage. This would make sense.

The physical damage from implosion passive I think its overpowered. Because stamina sorcerers already can use "Executioner or Reverse Slice" from 2h skill line so no need for extra execution passive.

I am sure people can say what about the "DW-Bow or DW-1h&Shield or 1h&shield-Bow" builds. Majority of stamina sorcerer builds including 2h skills. Of course there are other builds but the game balance should based on majority.

You are complaining about an incomplete Recap bug and assuming it is a skill bug. Increasing the Fury proc percentage to 25% is a huge change considering how much Fury already allows Magicka Sorcs to kill-steal in BGs.Not needed at all.

While I don't think Implosion is a great way to work a passive (why not just extra damage vs low health targets), I don't agree with basing passive changes just around 2h/Bow builds (which have 2 executes btw, Reverse Slice and Poison Injection).

I've played mostly DW or SnB mainhand builds for too long to think that stamina builds are limited to spamming Dizzying Swing.

EDITED: A word.

Benemime · April 2018

Crystal Blast needs a decrease of its casting time, as stated in this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5052619

Am I the only one that thinks the cast time of crystal blast isn't really 1 second at all? I mean, the first shot of Crystal Blast takes so much time to cast - then when you cast again, consecutevely, it feels like it is 1s.

Crystal Blast is a pain to use, I felt really frustrated while using this skill, that is supposed to be a "spammable" AoE. When I was in craglorn, doing Anka-Ra this weekend, by the time that I finished casting my first Crystal Blast, the "boss" (the gargoyle statue that slowly walks towards the NPC) was already with almost half of his hp - and I was in a team with 2.

Not to mention that everytime the mob dies before you complete casting, and if it's a first cast, not a sequential cast, it feels like it takes forever. Also, when the mob dies, you have to cast all over again and you lose like 2s/3s recasting crystal blast on some other target, the casting feels really delayed.

With the upcoming changes to light attacks and bound armaments, crystal blast will be even behind force pulse + crystal frags because to do enough dps with crystal blast you have to cast it consecutevely, not being able to cast a light attack between each cast (light attacks cancel casting and non-consecutevely casting feels slower than consecutevely casting, idk the reason for this, might be animation fault?) - so, using force pulse + light attack + frags will be an even better meta than before.

So IMO Crystal Blast should have its casting time decreased by half, then it will be ok to use it as a spam ability, an alternative to force pulse, that we are tired of seeing on every build.

Also, pvp wise, casting crystal blast is really hard, destructive reach is a better option instead

NyassaV · April 2018

mobe94 wrote: »

And by the way hardened ward give a little less shield than dampen magic now...

The amounts where re-balanced between the base skill and hardened. The values of Harness/Dampen vs the Sorc Ward shouldn't have changed much at all

mobe94 · April 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

mobe94 wrote: »

And by the way hardened ward give a little less shield than dampen magic now...

The amounts where re-balanced between the base skill and hardened. The values of Harness/Dampen vs the Sorc Ward shouldn't have changed much at all

Nerf the highest sorc shield is quite unpleasant since we can erase it quite easily with even half a combo ... better remove shield stacking and buff shield by something like 15-20%

(all the good sorc i know use only one shield anyway).

Salzor · April 2018

Has anyone else mentioned that Restraining Prison now gives Major Vitality for 2s per target hit up to 6 targets? I thumbed through this and it wasn't even in the notes.

Minalan · April 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

mobe94 wrote: »

And by the way hardened ward give a little less shield than dampen magic now...

The amounts where re-balanced between the base skill and hardened. The values of Harness/Dampen vs the Sorc Ward shouldn't have changed much at all

Hardened ward actually got a small buff (2% or something like that?)

With the new changes, I’m thinking that weaving light attacks with skills is going to eat shields in one GCD now easily. One good hit and the hardened ward is basically gone from anyone not rocking around 55K Max Magicka.

Between light attack empower, bound armaments, and one solid frag or reach..

It’s going to be interesting because it’s a big buff to the pet builds over the current shackle/lich 19K stamina meta.

VaxtinTheWolf · April 2018

I thought that the Hardened Ward Value should be staying the same as is on live. The base and it's morphs got a 10% increase, but Hardened Ward got a 10% decrease to compensate. So Hardened stayed the same, while the base and Empowered ward got slightly buffed, resulting in just a 20% difference between them instead of the 30% from before.

Biro123 · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

mobe94 wrote: »

And by the way hardened ward give a little less shield than dampen magic now...

The amounts where re-balanced between the base skill and hardened. The values of Harness/Dampen vs the Sorc Ward shouldn't have changed much at all

Hardened ward actually got a small buff (2% or something like that?)

With the new changes, I’m thinking that weaving light attacks with skills is going to eat shields in one GCD now easily. One good hit and the hardened ward is basically gone from anyone not rocking around 55K Max Magicka.

Between light attack empower, bound armaments, and one solid frag or reach..

It’s going to be interesting because it’s a big buff to the pet builds over the current shackle/lich 19K stamina meta.

You don't need a pet to maximise magicka. What bugs me though, is that these changes massively buff the way that I build/play (switching DW for staff), meaning that everyone else will start playing the same way!

But I like being a special snowflake!!! /stamps feet..

Tasear · April 2018

Salzor wrote: »

Has anyone else mentioned that Restraining Prison now gives Major Vitality for 2s per target hit up to 6 targets? I thumbed through this and it wasn't even in the notes.

What! Really?

Salzor · April 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Salzor wrote: »

Has anyone else mentioned that Restraining Prison now gives Major Vitality for 2s per target hit up to 6 targets? I thumbed through this and it wasn't even in the notes.

What! Really?

Yeah that's what the tooltip says, and Major Vitality applies but since it doesn't seem to modify the Shield Strength of Empowered Ward I can't really think of a way to see if it's working or just a bug.

Dracane · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

mobe94 wrote: »

And by the way hardened ward give a little less shield than dampen magic now...

The amounts where re-balanced between the base skill and hardened. The values of Harness/Dampen vs the Sorc Ward shouldn't have changed much at all

Hardened ward actually got a small buff (2% or something like that?)

With the new changes, I’m thinking that weaving light attacks with skills is going to eat shields in one GCD now easily. One good hit and the hardened ward is basically gone from anyone not rocking around 55K Max Magicka.

Between light attack empower, bound armaments, and one solid frag or reach..

It’s going to be interesting because it’s a big buff to the pet builds over the current shackle/lich 19K stamina meta.

I just checked that. With a high magicka build, my hardened ward is 225 points stronger on the pts in pve. So not even close to 2%

Would have been nice though.

Beardimus · April 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

mobe94 wrote: »

And by the way hardened ward give a little less shield than dampen magic now...

The amounts where re-balanced between the base skill and hardened. The values of Harness/Dampen vs the Sorc Ward shouldn't have changed much at all

Hardened ward actually got a small buff (2% or something like that?)

With the new changes, I’m thinking that weaving light attacks with skills is going to eat shields in one GCD now easily. One good hit and the hardened ward is basically gone from anyone not rocking around 55K Max Magicka.

Between light attack empower, bound armaments, and one solid frag or reach..

It’s going to be interesting because it’s a big buff to the pet builds over the current shackle/lich 19K stamina meta.

You don't need a pet to maximise magicka. What bugs me though, is that these changes massively buff the way that I build/play (switching DW for staff), meaning that everyone else will start playing the same way!

But I like being a special snowflake!!! /stamps feet..

I'm with you @Biro123 this patch kills diversity and buffs PvE pet Sorcs and tanks lol

Beardimus · April 2018

@NegativeVibes had an ace idea. Remove streak cost increase when used offensivly and it hits someone.

Penalize running with it only.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/407852/a-few-things-about-bolt-escape#latest

Derra · April 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

@NegativeVibes had an ace idea. Remove streak cost increase when used offensivly and it hits someone.

Penalize running with it only.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/407852/a-few-things-about-bolt-escape#latest

People have been asking for that ever since the stacking cost increase went live.
At this point i think they either don´t want streak to be offensively vaible or it´s not possible to implement for them.

Beardimus · April 2018

@Derra well we can hope.

I'm not looking forward to tank Sorc sat in mines blocking meta

Mobility, speed, burst but made of glass that's us.

Neloth · April 2018

Can elemental weapons be a good replacement for crushing shock?

Can anyone pls share a screenshot of it's damage / duration on end-game pvp-geared mag sorc? I got its invite, but too lazy to download it ;(

If it has viable dmg, maybe it will be worth running with the following front bar: frags / elemental weapons / flame reach (cc + destro passive) / endless fury / curse.

And curse -> elemental weapons -> flame reach -> frag will be a nice burst, no? (maybe even better without master destro).

gnarlyvandal · April 2018

Aznox wrote: »

Underwhelming ? have you seen the new skill line ?

Stamsorc will probably benefit the most from the new stamina spammable Crushing Weapon

Petsorc, on top of doubled light attack damage, has big synergy with Major Protection affecting shields while channeling.

Sorcerer burst can be violently improved with the Spell Orb passive and Borrowed Time skill

Not even talking about Healer and Tank sorc being more viable than ever ...

I guess we could give permanent emperor status to the sorcerer class and half this thread would still be crying ...

Looking at the mag imbue weapons.... doesn’t this mean that both perfect and imperfect asylum staves are completely redundant? Using the weaps to get status effects on enemies and now a skill line slot does the job quicker (for imperfect) with less cost. Just put the skill in place of the backbar aegis (that isn’t needed anymore) and you’re good to go...

ZOS are really going to have to go over the single set weapons..

Not complaining that this effect is now in a skill line, just seems pointless to negate one of the best/rarest weapon drops

BaylorCorvette · April 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Sorcerer combat balance and ability changes. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance.

MetalHead4x4 wrote: »

Streak should grant CC immunity, think about it, if you are flashing through the air as pure energy, why are you getting snared or knocked down?

The below comments are primairly directed towards PvP.

I agree with MetalHead somewhat. One of the Sorc class defining features (Stam or Mag) is the Streak ability. I would love to see the base ability remove snares and maybe give immunity for 1-2 seconds. CC immunity would be nice but I think that would be overpowered. However the snare removal seems like a great enhancement to a class defining feature. It will give Mag Sorcs an option for snare removal and since a lot of Stam Sorcs are pigeon holed into playing a very specific weapon lines given a lack of class stam spammable it would give Stam Sorcs the ability to get snares off without having to run medium or 2h.

My StamSorc is my favorite class to play in PvP the third utility bar and streak is awesome. However it is very annoying having 0 class stam spammable abilities. I would love to have one but even more than that I would love my above statement about streak to be implemented.

In regards to what is being implemented currently in PTS, since I do not play MagSorc I cannot comment on a lot of these things personally. However the changes to Bound Armor, while on the surface sounds good, in practice it doesn't feel any different. You still need to double bar the ability or else every bar swap your resources are going to be fluctuating. I see the effort to make bound armor more useful but I cannot help feel like this was a missed opportunity.

IARTOI wrote: »

The physical damage from implosion passive I think its overpowered. Because stamina sorcerers already can use "Executioner or Reverse Slice" from 2h skill line so no need for extra execution passive.

I am sure people can say what about the "DW-Bow or DW-1h&Shield or 1h&shield-Bow" builds. Majority of stamina sorcerer builds including 2h skills. Ofcourse there are other builds but the game balance should based on majority.

This is so inaccurate. 2h skill line is decent in a zerg or fighting unskilled opponents. However when you're fighting really good players DW + S&B is way more effective. The implosion is extremely nice to have. Particularly since a lot of Sorc passives are useless to StamSorcs. You take this away and StamSorcs have an even smaller amount of class passives working for them.

For Example, the following class passives are useless for StamSorc:
Daedric Summoning
Rebate
Expert Summoner

Dark Magic
Blood Magic
Persistence
Exploitation

41% of Sorc Class Passives do not even work in favor of a StamSorc player.

akray21 · April 2018

Salzor wrote: »

Has anyone else mentioned that Restraining Prison now gives Major Vitality for 2s per target hit up to 6 targets? I thumbed through this and it wasn't even in the notes.

What? This is a huge buff to my StamSorc support build. It's mainly a stamina build, but has high magicka regen to stun and root people on cooldown.

troomar · April 2018

Salzor wrote: »

Has anyone else mentioned that Restraining Prison now gives Major Vitality for 2s per target hit up to 6 targets? I thumbed through this and it wasn't even in the notes.

Is the Major Vitality applied to the caster or to the allies standing in the Restraining Prison?

Camb0Sl1ce · April 2018

So in pve I'm still going to have to double bar aegis, losing 8% max mag every time I swap bars isn't a buff to me. Except now I lose the visual effect of it, kinda disappointed honestly. I know purple mist dosnt effect my dps but I was still kinda cool looking.

ElFonz0 · April 2018

troomar wrote: »

Salzor wrote: »

Has anyone else mentioned that Restraining Prison now gives Major Vitality for 2s per target hit up to 6 targets? I thumbed through this and it wasn't even in the notes.

Is the Major Vitality applied to the caster or to the allies standing in the Restraining Prison?

Just tested it: it gives Major Vitality to you for 2 seconds, and each enemy in the area adds 1 second to that up to 6 extra seconds, for a max of 8 seconds

leb91han · April 2018

Please bring back crystal frag stun, just please :'( you ripped magicka sorc from its identity when you took the stun. Being forced to use master staff and spam reach is so boring and ugly. Also would be nice to bring back the extra % dmg it did. Landing a frag is pretty hard coz of all the blocking/rolling/mist forming/reflecting ....... and these days to me its average dmg is 4-5k which is pretty weak, i only tend to see the 7k ones on other light armor users only. Sometimes i hit people with a 3k Crit frag which is ridiculous and a shame and im even running a very high dmg build ...finally please reduce the cost of the rune cage because it is pretty hard to sustain specially vs stamina players where harness dont help . You are forcing master staff on magicka sorc which is so wrong.