PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance

Minalan · April 2018

SirMewser wrote: »

As a Pet Sorc player...
Allow Twilight Tormentor to apply minor breach or something so it's not useless for half of a fight.

Reduce the cost of the Clannfear's active heal because it's about 6k for me. For a tank ~6k is ridiculous especially when managing a pet since shields on a tank are weaker than a full mag sorc DPS. Also consider increasing his passive damage while at that.

Allow Sorc pet's passive damage to benefit from CP.

The charged storm atronach AoE attack would be more useful if tied as a second function when activating the atronach again after being summoned so players have more control and can time when this is necessary.

Then just make an air atronach morph that deals physical damage. Remember the last update where you made him scale better with penetration and max resource? Awesome for magic users but where is the love for stam sorcs on this one?

Why does Daedric Prey buff pet's damage by 55% BUT the storm atronach? Not asking for a buff but it's eyesore to look at, just make it 55% for all pets and respectively reduce the atronach tooltip if you have to...

While it's great that Empowered Ward and Bound Armour got buffed...
I want the abilities in the game to function with the system's that have been implemented for years. All of the deceiving tooltips are a bloody half-arse mess while morphs are left to be point-blank useless.

Please ZOS, don’t put any more buffs or debuffs on pets. Most of us hate them. They aren’t really good in open PVP. The only real reason to have one is to crutch on necropotence and stack a ton of Magicka that we really need, but can not obtain without pets.

I hate to disappoint the one ZOS designer sitting in a dark corner somewhere coming up with new ways to make the rest of us like pets, but.. we don’t. Stop. Please.

Emma_Overload · April 2018

Boundless Storm should remove snares, in addition to what it currently does. This wouldn't be game-breaking.

FIRE_PANTHER_321 · April 2018

How much more dmg are sorcs heavy attacks with 50k mag now

fleursnuit · April 2018

Seriously? Bound Aegis only lasts for, like, a second now...or is that just me? Does it stay on in battle? I mean, I know it got nerfed by removing toggle, but come on...every 1-2 seconds I have to hit it?

Tannus15 · April 2018

fleursnuit wrote: »

Seriously? Bound Aegis only lasts for, like, a second now...or is that just me? Does it stay on in battle? I mean, I know it got nerfed by removing toggle, but come on...every 1-2 seconds I have to hit it?

it's now always active, the same as inner light.
you don't have to cast it at all to get the stat bonus, and you can only have it on one bar if you want.

Vapirko · April 2018

Morgul667 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Did 8% increase magic or stamina go bye bye from bound armaments?

It's still there.

Do we need to have it on the 2 bars for it to be active, or one bar is enough ?

@Dracane

You'll need it on two bars. This skill has been turned to junk. What they tried to do was give you the option of having it as a toggle or not but in reality it pretty much still needs to be a toggle. The LA damage increase and max stamina boost are only active when slotted which means unless you want your stamina dropping or rising by 3-5k on bar swap then you'll need to double bar it. The only "buff" this offers is the 3 second block mitigation increase. So you're faced with this choice, either lose the stamina and magicicka recovery, max stat and light attack damage on one bar (which is very detrimental), or continue to slot this skill on both bars and were back where we started except that instead of ongoing physical and spell resistance, you get an awful block mitigation skill which lowers your next skill cost by 15% but also costs 3k STAMINA to cast and only lasts 3 seconds. How that is supposed to be useful is beyond me. I really don't even see PvE tanks using this skill but I could be wrong there. I always think, with every patch, that surely ZOS will catch on and then they constantly surprise me by doing things like this. There was such a simple answer to this skill. Leave as is on live but turn it into a buff for X seconds like every other freakin class buff.

TimeDazzler · April 2018

Give stamsorcs more viable class skills and add a couple of debuff's to sorcs in general even if they are locked behind one morph. Currently stamsorcs only benefit from:

Daedric Summoning
-Bound Armaments

Dark Magic
-Dark Deal
-Encase (for very niche builds)

Storm Calling
-Hurricane
-Streak
-Critical Surge (again only few niche crit builds)

DPShiro · April 2018

Bound Aegis should have the light attacks bonus as well

ToRelax · April 2018

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

[...]
Also I don't understand why Dreadric mines are doing single target explosions. It is common sense that they should do an area of effect damage when one of them explodes.
[...]

Always wanted this. The current design just kinda screams "I'm useless against numbers" when a group rolls over them.

MetalHead4x4 · April 2018

Healing Ward is a garbage heal, almost always in PvP it heals someone else when I need it. Being only a 3k shield it's gone after one light attack if you don't stack Hardened on it, and then you're lucky to get any kind of heal out of it.

Streak should grant CC immunity, think about it, if you are flashing through the air as pure energy, why are you getting snared or knocked down? For that moment you should be immune to damage or CC's. It's like a death button, if i use it I die especially trying to Streak through zergs. Also, if you use it as a getaway, gap closers just spam you cause they can reach farther than Streak with no cost increase. I'm snared throughout ENTIRE fights while other classes re zipping around like Superman using either a class ability or speed pots. Some of them are flat ridiculous.

Flame/Icy/Shock Reach basically hits for 1k on most classes, and the DoT damage rarely last a couple seconds (tooltip says 8 seconds) seems our heaviest destro attacks do minimal damage plus we don't get the knockdown of Frags. If we can't get a knockdown or someone is running pots we lose an advantage if we don't shield stack (which I don't because I hate being forced into a certain playstyle)

Svidrir · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

As a Pet Sorc player...
Please ZOS, don’t put any more buffs or debuffs on pets. Most of us hate them. They aren’t really good in open PVP. The only real reason to have one is to crutch on necropotence and stack a ton of Magicka that we really need, but can not obtain without pets. I hate to disappoint the one ZOS designer sitting in a dark corner somewhere coming up with new ways to make the rest of us like pets, but.. we don’t. Stop. Please.

Cries wrote: »

Give stamsorcs more viable class skills and add a couple of debuff's to sorcs in general even if they are locked behind one morph. Currently stamsorcs only benefit from:

Daedric Summoning
-Bound Armaments

Dark Magic
-Dark Deal
-Encase (for very niche builds)

Storm Calling
-Hurricane
-Streak
-Critical Surge (again only few niche crit builds)

+10000000000

Derra · April 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

[...]
Also I don't understand why Dreadric mines are doing single target explosions. It is common sense that they should do an area of effect damage when one of them explodes.
[...]

Always wanted this. The current design just kinda screams "I'm useless against numbers" when a group rolls over them.

I dislike this with the current implementation of mines as the skill would become rediculously op when stacked.

I´d like mines to be 1 mine - covering the area of the current 5/3 depending on morph and dealing aoe dmg in this area while rearming 5/3 times with a 3-5s timer.

ToRelax · April 2018

Derra wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

[...]
Also I don't understand why Dreadric mines are doing single target explosions. It is common sense that they should do an area of effect damage when one of them explodes.
[...]

Always wanted this. The current design just kinda screams "I'm useless against numbers" when a group rolls over them.

I dislike this with the current implementation of mines as the skill would become rediculously op when stacked.

I´d like mines to be 1 mine - covering the area of the current 5/3 depending on morph and dealing aoe dmg in this area while rearming 5/3 times with a 3-5s timer.

I don't really see them becoming OP. Maybe the ranged morph, but that can be excluded. Right now, one player can clear out some stacked Mines reasonably well with shieldstacking/mist forming etc.
If they were being stacked by a sorc-heavy raid in PvP, they can be cleared with Negate to move through choke points and otherwise just punish a group for running all in at once when used mid-combat; if just one player did, they would take the same damage they do now.

Feanor · April 2018

Mines are really a bit strange if Sorc should be about mobility. I don’t like the mine camping play style. While the cost reduction is nice, I’d rather have positive changes elsewhere.

Aznox · April 2018

Is it me or has this thread transformed into a Christmas wish list without any relevance to the long list of announced changes affecting the sorcerer class ?

Emma_Overload · April 2018

Aznox wrote: »

Is it me or has this thread transformed into a Christmas wish list without any relevance to the long list of announced changes affecting the sorcerer class ?

I think the consensus is that the announced changes are underwhelming, therefore we are agitating for a better offering.

Feanor · April 2018

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Is it me or has this thread transformed into a Christmas wish list without any relevance to the long list of announced changes affecting the sorcerer class ?

I think the consensus is that the announced changes are underwhelming, therefore we are agitating for a better offering.

Agitating? More like writhing in agony

Aznox · April 2018

Underwhelming ? have you seen the new skill line ?

Stamsorc will probably benefit the most from the new stamina spammable Crushing Weapon

Petsorc, on top of doubled light attack damage, has big synergy with Major Protection affecting shields while channeling.

Sorcerer burst can be violently improved with the Spell Orb passive and Borrowed Time skill

Not even talking about Healer and Tank sorc being more viable than ever ...

I guess we could give permanent emperor status to the sorcerer class and half this thread would still be crying ...

Feanor · April 2018

@Aznox

Everything you have listed are not class specific changes and every other class can benefit just as well. Besides, the skills are subject to change before live. I expect light attacks will get adjusted.

Aznox · April 2018

Why do you expect the light attack damage to be adjusted ? The results are exactly in line with what was announced and predicted, so it is obviously not a bug. If it is an oversight, well then the ZoS guy in charge of these changes should start playing the game before meddling with the formulas ...

I disagree that all class benefit from theses changes equally, the Major Protection has such a good synergy with shields that Pirate Skeleton received a targeted nerf like we rarely ever see.

Thraben · April 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
[1]Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs are no longer toggle abilities. Slotting Bound Armor will continue to grant you an increase to Max Magicka, and activating these abilities will increase the amount of damage you can block by 20% for 3 seconds. [2]Bound Aegis (Bound Armor morph): This morph now grants Minor Ward and Minor Resolve while it is slotted. [3]Bound Armaments (Bound Armor morph): This morph converts the ability into a Stamina ability and now increases your damage done with Light Attacks while slotted, instead of Heavy Attacks. [4]Conjured Ward: Increased the strength of the damage shield summoned by this ability and its morphs by approximately 10%. [5]Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Decreased this morph’s bonus to your own damage shield to 20% from 30%.
Developer Comment:
Combined with the change to the base ability, Conjured Ward, there is no net change to the strength of the shield that Hardened Ward provides.
[6]Summon Storm Atronach: Increased the health of the Atronach summoned by this ability and the Charged Atronach morph by approximately 70%.
[7]Summon Unstable Familiar: The pet summoned from this ability now has a basic area of effect special ability that can be used while the pet is active.
[8]Summon Winged Twilight: The pet summoned from this ability now has a basic heal special ability that can be used while the pet is active.

Tanksorc- Feedback:

Bound Armor and its morphs: Almost everyone will only use the passive effect of that skill. Remember: If you want to increase your block mitigation, then Defensive Posture is better, because it´s passive. If you want an "Oh ***" skill, then both a MagSorc tank and a StamSorc tank will start shield stacking (mainly hardened ward/ Bone Shield) directly after the first block (which itself creates a CP/ Psijic damage shield).

Thus, the active component of that skill is utterly useless.

Fixes:

a) Increase the duration of the Buff to 20 seconds. (boring)

b) Even more useful for (Stam-) TankSorcs would be the option, that the active skill would summon a deadric creature that counts as pet (for 20 seconds or so), so that the pet haters wouldn´t feel forced to equip the Clannfear for the 8% more health.

The longer you channel the skill, the more powerful the summoned creature´s attacks get (normally their attacks should be pretty symbolic, though)

A dremora would suffice

https://youtu.be/NdU4V3bNn-g

IARTOI · April 2018

I have only one thing to share about sorcerers. The "Mage's Fury Explosion" + Implosion passive causing bug sometimes. This bug is when you are in combat while have more than 30% HP (40%-50%) and got hit by mages fury explosion its instantly killing you but in death recap we can only see endless fury explosion not the implosion. So what is killing you?

My suggestion is remove (change) implosion passive but also increase the endless fury execution percentage. This would make sense.

The physical damage from implosion passive I think its overpowered. Because stamina sorcerers already can use "Executioner or Reverse Slice" from 2h skill line so no need for extra execution passive.

I am sure people can say what about the "DW-Bow or DW-1h&Shield or 1h&shield-Bow" builds. Majority of stamina sorcerer builds including 2h skills. Ofcourse there are other builds but the game balance should based on majority.

Tasear · April 2018

Aznox wrote: »

Underwhelming ? have you seen the new skill line ?

Stamsorc will probably benefit the most from the new stamina spammable Crushing Weapon

Petsorc, on top of doubled light attack damage, has big synergy with Major Protection affecting shields while channeling.

Sorcerer burst can be violently improved with the Spell Orb passive and Borrowed Time skill

Not even talking about Healer and Tank sorc being more viable than ever ...

I guess we could give permanent emperor status to the sorcerer class and half this thread would still be crying ...

It's a discussion and there will be issue even if sorcs were gods.

And I do not agree? Please explain how healer is "more viable" then ever. I see the skill but what else do you mean?

kirchhofftr · April 2018

Mag sorcs need more sustain .
No one have to use lightning staff for sustain in pve .
Mag wardens have netch to restore magicka each second
Magblades have incredible op siphioning attacks to restore magicka and health in same skill
Magplars have rune focus to extra resource gain.
MagDks now have 500 magicka/stamina passive if enemy burning or poisoned

So before everything WE NEED MORE SUSTAIN
Check dps parses to everyclasses maybe they are close but sorcerers always have to do some heavy atack and magblades dont !

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2018

IARTOI wrote: »

I have only one thing to share about sorcerers. The "Mage's Fury Explosion" + Implosion passive causing bug sometimes. This bug is when you are in combat while have more than 30% HP (40%-50%) and got hit by mages fury explosion its instantly killing you but in death recap we can only see endless fury explosion not the implosion. So what is killing you?

My suggestion is remove (change) implosion passive but also increase the endless fury execution percentage. This would make sense.

The physical damage from implosion passive I think its overpowered. Because stamina sorcerers already can use "Executioner or Reverse Slice" from 2h skill line so no need for extra execution passive.

I am sure people can say what about the "DW-Bow or DW-1h&Shield or 1h&shield-Bow" builds. Majority of stamina sorcerer builds including 2h skills. Ofcourse there are other builds but the game balance should based on majority.

While I understand the frustration about implosion, I have a hard time to follow your reasoning.

You start of with „when Fury procs Implosion it’s instant Death at 40% hp with no mention in the recap“. So you complain about a recap instead of an execute proccing to early? And your suggestion is to raise the threshold?

Then you go on to say implosion is OP on stam. how does this correlate with your mentioned fury+Implosion thingy? Do you realize that the strength of the proc scales with health and not with typical dmg stats?

And finally you say implosion on stam should be nerfed bc the majority uses 2h builds, which has an active execute. That’s a really good way to ensure the majority staying the majority.

Seriously. Ask for a bug resolve. Or at least admitt Implosion as a whole is bad designed, unreliably and frustrating and therefore should be changed. And not because of some pigeonholing mindset. Even sorcs themself admit it.

IARTOI · April 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

IARTOI wrote: »

I have only one thing to share about sorcerers. The "Mage's Fury Explosion" + Implosion passive causing bug sometimes. This bug is when you are in combat while have more than 30% HP (40%-50%) and got hit by mages fury explosion its instantly killing you but in death recap we can only see endless fury explosion not the implosion. So what is killing you?

My suggestion is remove (change) implosion passive but also increase the endless fury execution percentage. This would make sense.

The physical damage from implosion passive I think its overpowered. Because stamina sorcerers already can use "Executioner or Reverse Slice" from 2h skill line so no need for extra execution passive.

I am sure people can say what about the "DW-Bow or DW-1h&Shield or 1h&shield-Bow" builds. Majority of stamina sorcerer builds including 2h skills. Ofcourse there are other builds but the game balance should based on majority.

While I understand the frustration about implosion, I have a hard time to follow your reasoning.

You start of with „when Fury procs Implosion it’s instant Death at 40% hp with no mention in the recap“. So you complain about a recap instead of an execute proccing to early? And your suggestion is to raise the threshold?

Then you go on to say implosion is OP on stam. how does this correlate with your mentioned fury+Implosion thingy? Do you realize that the strength of the proc scales with health and not with typical dmg stats?

And finally you say implosion on stam should be nerfed bc the majority uses 2h builds, which has an active execute. That’s a really good way to ensure the majority staying the majority.

Seriously. Ask for a bug resolve. Or at least admitt Implosion as a whole is bad designed, unreliably and frustrating and therefore should be changed. And not because of some pigeonholing mindset. Even sorcs themself admit it.

I think in that part I couldn't be so clear. I am trying to say yes there is a bug with endless fury+implosion. And trying to say fix this bug remove implosion and increase the endless fury threshold from 20% to 25% for keep the balance of skill line. Its not that complicated.

Also passive says

Whenever you deal Shock Damage you have a 6% chance to instantly disintegrate enemies under 15% Health, dealing 13606 Shock Damage.
Whenever you deal Physical Damage you have a 6% chance to instantly pulverize enemies under 15% Health, dealing 12399 Physical Damage.

Thats why I correlate these two.

Maulkin · April 2018

I personally find it a bit funny people get triggered by Implosion in general, but particularly so when they get triggered by a MagSorc proc.

It’s like, bruh, this passive isn’t even good for MagSorc. The only lightning damage 99% of magsorcs have is Fury. Half of the Sorcs even have BoL instead of Streak. You got hit by a proc that is so infrequent that it’s useless most of the time and redundant the rest of times. Because anyone but the tankiest players will die to a Fury proc anyway.

It’s pretty brutal on Stamsorcs though, I gotta admit. But considering the rest of the Stamsorc kit is “meh” it doesn’t feel out of place.

Aznox · April 2018

Thraben wrote: »

And I do not agree? Please explain how healer is "more viable" then ever. I see the skill but what else do you mean?

You are right i was thinking about tank mostly, i have no idea if the added heal will have an impact on sorc healing.

NyassaV · April 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Since the devs like charts and graphs, how about this one?
(Credit to Reddington James for this!)

See anything wrong with this chart? Look at the Sorc buffs and debuffs we have access to. Think we can please add a little something to crystal fragments procs?

It’s our ONE offensive ability that isn’t on a purgable timer, it has a 66% chance to not proc, and it typically hits for about 7K.

Please add a buff or debuff effect to crystal fragments morph: Maim. Breach. Defile. Force. Vulnerability. Berserk. Pick one, we’ll be overjoyed with any minor buff or debuff at this point.

To be fair some of those buffs comes from skills seldom used. Sorcs are not meant to be debuffers but over power thier opponent with raw magical POWAAAARRRRRR... SO plz gives frags it's damage back

akray21 · April 2018

I have not read through all the posts here, so I am not sure how many people are talking about StamSorc, but they need something more in PvP IMO. BUT... LA build might be strong?