[PvP] mDK changes in 3.3.2
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
I know you try to hide your bias, but it's really just cringe reading your posts.
I'll tell you what's cringy: it's all the people complaining about losing their "I win" button vs dodge roll builds.
Magicka DK is still doing phenomenally in PvP, I'd say it's the 3rd most popular class after rollerblades & sorcs and possibly the most popular when it comes to amount of 1vX videos out there. Videos from this patch.
It's just not as unfair against dodge rollers as it used to be and that sounds fine to me, I wouldn't have been able to make a bow build function in current meta for example if I'd still get one shot by Fossilize->PL->Leap.
So yeah, if wanting more build diversity in the game makes me biased then so be it. In the end everyone is biased one way or another.
The Vivec campaign on PS4 NA ended yesterday with 6 DKs in the top 50.
Yup, phenomenal.
Interesting sample size.
On Vivec PC EU there's currently 29 Sorcs & 27 NBs in the top 100.
Considering around 90% of those sorcs are magicka where as probably 20-30% of the NBs might be magicka, one could easily draw the conclusion that magicka sorcerer is the most popular class in PvP.
But we all know those zerg surfing snipe spammers would never make it to leaderboard with their KDR, so that statistic isn't reliable.
In any case, "phenomenal" was more in reference to its performance in 1vX & 1v1.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
I know you try to hide your bias, but it's really just cringe reading your posts.
This exactly, he has literally no idea what he's talking about.
There is no one on this entire game on any platform that can say they can land more power lashes now lmao wether in PvE or PvP the skill has become trash agaisnt anyone who isn't a brand new player
If the lash is blocked, or dodged, the entire skill is cancelled regardless.
It seems like you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about, as you still get the heal over time from Power Lash even if it is dodged.
I never said I actually land more of them (except vs dmg shield & block oriented builds), and it's a good thing because then the game would still be unbalanced & many medium armor builds unplayable in the competitive scene.
What I do get to do now on my mDK is use the skill more often, which results in more heals and more survivability in PvP than pre-patch.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »That's if you actually manage to fight someone and actually land the FIRST flame lash to even set them off balance in the first place after using talons, if they havent already broken out.
Or god help you if they are using Forward momemtum. Good luck ever landing a single power lash
All there is now on live are stamblades spamming Incap for 16k on everyone and kiting magblads and Wardens of both specs.
Templars are just healing bots, and sorcs keep on keepin on.
This has always been the case, I'm not sure what you're getting at.
To be clear, I still think there's a lot that can be improved on DK to promote more playstyles & different builds, but undodgeable Power Lash was never healthy for the game (have fun playing a bow build for example when people could Fossilize->FL->PL you and you'd be dead with no chance to survive).Edited by DDuke on April 3, 2018 12:27PM0 -
Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You guys have already touched upon it, but magdks are the only class dependent on being able to cc an opponent, and then land a flame lash, and /then/ be able to use their skill proc - unless it's dodged.
Nightblades can proc their relentless/merciless solely by landing attacks. Sorcs can proc their frags solely by casting magicka abilities.
This seems an unnecessary barrier for power lashing, on a class that is already:
- stuck with no class or passive regen outside a battle roar that is now nerfed into minimal levels
- stuck with no mobility whatsoever outside a gap closer
- stuck with no execute whatsoever
- stuck with gimping itself with heavy armor and/or sword/shield simply for a modicum of survival in pvp
- stuck with one of the lowest dps potential in PvE
- stuck with melee range in both pvp and pve
DKs still function well as PvE tanks, and arguably StamDKs are still viable on both PvP/PvE environments, which leaves the question as to what is the role of a MagDK outside a fire breathing gimmick that has gotten a bit stale and cold by now.3 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
I know you try to hide your bias, but it's really just cringe reading your posts.
I'll tell you what's cringy: it's all the people complaining about losing their "I win" button vs dodge roll builds.
Magicka DK is still doing phenomenally in PvP, I'd say it's the 3rd most popular class after rollerblades & sorcs and possibly the most popular when it comes to amount of 1vX videos out there. Videos from this patch.
It's just not as unfair against dodge rollers as it used to be and that sounds fine to me, I wouldn't have been able to make a bow build function in current meta for example if I'd still get one shot by Fossilize->PL->Leap.
So yeah, if wanting more build diversity in the game makes me biased then so be it. In the end everyone is biased one way or another.
The Vivec campaign on PS4 NA ended yesterday with 6 DKs in the top 50.
Yup, phenomenal.
Interesting sample size.
On Vivec PC EU there's currently 29 Sorcs & 27 NBs in the top 100.
Considering around 90% of those sorcs are magicka where as probably 20-30% of the NBs might be magicka, one could easily draw the conclusion that magicka sorcerer is the most popular class in PvP.
But we all know those zerg surfing snipe spammers would never make it to leaderboard with their KDR, so that statistic isn't reliable.
In any case, "phenomenal" was more in reference to its performance in 1vX & 1v1.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
I know you try to hide your bias, but it's really just cringe reading your posts.
This exactly, he has literally no idea what he's talking about.
There is no one on this entire game on any platform that can say they can land more power lashes now lmao wether in PvE or PvP the skill has become trash agaisnt anyone who isn't a brand new player
If the lash is blocked, or dodged, the entire skill is cancelled regardless.
It seems like you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about, as you still get the heal over time from Power Lash even if it is dodged.
I never said I actually land more of them (except vs dmg shield & block oriented builds), and it's a good thing because then the game would still be unbalanced & many medium armor builds unplayable in the competitive scene.
What I do get to do now on my mDK is use the skill more often, which results in more heals and more survivability in PvP than pre-patch.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »That's if you actually manage to fight someone and actually land the FIRST flame lash to even set them off balance in the first place after using talons, if they havent already broken out.
Or god help you if they are using Forward momemtum. Good luck ever landing a single power lash
All there is now on live are stamblades spamming Incap for 16k on everyone and kiting magblads and Wardens of both specs.
Templars are just healing bots, and sorcs keep on keepin on.
This has always been the case, I'm not sure what you're getting at.
To be clear, I still think there's a lot that can be improved on DK to promote more playstyles & different builds, but undodgeable Power Lash was never healthy for the game (have fun playing a bow build for example when people could Fossilize->FL->PL you and you'd be dead with no chance to survive).
We dont use power lash for the heal we use powerlash to GET kills.
It is our de-facto execute, and sustain at the same time. Having the heal when it was dodged does NOTHING for killing capacity. Which the Dk ALREADY lacks from no passives or meaningful skills. Having ultimates is even less about using to kill because we are forced to use them to maintain a modicum of resources because powerlash never lands anymore. And trying to spam heavy attacks will just get you killed.
How is this difficult to understand?
The game has changed drastically and Dk's have been the only class to be continually nerfed for 5 straight patches in a row for changes that did not need to happen to the class when it was ALREADY suffering.
The point I made with FM is that in combination with all these nerfs have made it virtually impossible to sustain and burst as a mag DK
Stam dk has it's problems to, but at least they can use bow and 2h to make up for the worst passives and skill class in the gameEdited by Nelson_Rebel on April 3, 2018 5:10PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
I know you try to hide your bias, but it's really just cringe reading your posts.
I'll tell you what's cringy: it's all the people complaining about losing their "I win" button vs dodge roll builds.
Magicka DK is still doing phenomenally in PvP, I'd say it's the 3rd most popular class after rollerblades & sorcs and possibly the most popular when it comes to amount of 1vX videos out there. Videos from this patch.
It's just not as unfair against dodge rollers as it used to be and that sounds fine to me, I wouldn't have been able to make a bow build function in current meta for example if I'd still get one shot by Fossilize->PL->Leap.
So yeah, if wanting more build diversity in the game makes me biased then so be it. In the end everyone is biased one way or another.
The Vivec campaign on PS4 NA ended yesterday with 6 DKs in the top 50.
Yup, phenomenal.
Interesting sample size.
On Vivec PC EU there's currently 29 Sorcs & 27 NBs in the top 100.
Considering around 90% of those sorcs are magicka where as probably 20-30% of the NBs might be magicka, one could easily draw the conclusion that magicka sorcerer is the most popular class in PvP.
But we all know those zerg surfing snipe spammers would never make it to leaderboard with their KDR, so that statistic isn't reliable.
In any case, "phenomenal" was more in reference to its performance in 1vX & 1v1.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
I know you try to hide your bias, but it's really just cringe reading your posts.
This exactly, he has literally no idea what he's talking about.
There is no one on this entire game on any platform that can say they can land more power lashes now lmao wether in PvE or PvP the skill has become trash agaisnt anyone who isn't a brand new player
If the lash is blocked, or dodged, the entire skill is cancelled regardless.
It seems like you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about, as you still get the heal over time from Power Lash even if it is dodged.
I never said I actually land more of them (except vs dmg shield & block oriented builds), and it's a good thing because then the game would still be unbalanced & many medium armor builds unplayable in the competitive scene.
What I do get to do now on my mDK is use the skill more often, which results in more heals and more survivability in PvP than pre-patch.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »That's if you actually manage to fight someone and actually land the FIRST flame lash to even set them off balance in the first place after using talons, if they havent already broken out.
Or god help you if they are using Forward momemtum. Good luck ever landing a single power lash
All there is now on live are stamblades spamming Incap for 16k on everyone and kiting magblads and Wardens of both specs.
Templars are just healing bots, and sorcs keep on keepin on.
This has always been the case, I'm not sure what you're getting at.
To be clear, I still think there's a lot that can be improved on DK to promote more playstyles & different builds, but undodgeable Power Lash was never healthy for the game (have fun playing a bow build for example when people could Fossilize->FL->PL you and you'd be dead with no chance to survive).
We dont use power lash for the heal we use powerlash to GET kills.
It is our de-facto execute, and sustain at the same time. Having the heal when it was dodged does NOTHING for killing capacity. Which the Dk ALREADY lacks from no passives or meaningful skills. Having ultimates is even less about using to kill because we are forced to use them to maintain a modicum of resources because powerlash never lands anymore. And trying to spam heavy attacks will just get you killed.
How is this difficult to understand?
See, that's not very compelling argument.
By your logic, snipes on my bowblade should also be undodgeable because they're my "de facto executes" (Killer's Blade being a melee range skill) that I use to get kills, have to be cast and can be interrupted (or even reflected!).
Yet I have the common sense to realize how toxic such a change would be for many builds out there.
Try to see it from this perspective.
Besides, you can still easily get kills on medium armor builds with a high tooltip Leap at the right moment (here, have an example: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404174/video-a-farewell-to-block-dw-magicka-dk-outnumbered-pvp-7-dragon-boned-patch) - it's just not quite as easy to kill good medium armor players as it was before.0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
I know you try to hide your bias, but it's really just cringe reading your posts.
I'll tell you what's cringy: it's all the people complaining about losing their "I win" button vs dodge roll builds.
Magicka DK is still doing phenomenally in PvP, I'd say it's the 3rd most popular class after rollerblades & sorcs and possibly the most popular when it comes to amount of 1vX videos out there. Videos from this patch.
It's just not as unfair against dodge rollers as it used to be and that sounds fine to me, I wouldn't have been able to make a bow build function in current meta for example if I'd still get one shot by Fossilize->PL->Leap.
So yeah, if wanting more build diversity in the game makes me biased then so be it. In the end everyone is biased one way or another.
The Vivec campaign on PS4 NA ended yesterday with 6 DKs in the top 50.
Yup, phenomenal.
Interesting sample size.
On Vivec PC EU there's currently 29 Sorcs & 27 NBs in the top 100.
Considering around 90% of those sorcs are magicka where as probably 20-30% of the NBs might be magicka, one could easily draw the conclusion that magicka sorcerer is the most popular class in PvP.
But we all know those zerg surfing snipe spammers would never make it to leaderboard with their KDR, so that statistic isn't reliable.
In any case, "phenomenal" was more in reference to its performance in 1vX & 1v1.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
I know you try to hide your bias, but it's really just cringe reading your posts.
This exactly, he has literally no idea what he's talking about.
There is no one on this entire game on any platform that can say they can land more power lashes now lmao wether in PvE or PvP the skill has become trash agaisnt anyone who isn't a brand new player
If the lash is blocked, or dodged, the entire skill is cancelled regardless.
It seems like you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about, as you still get the heal over time from Power Lash even if it is dodged.
I never said I actually land more of them (except vs dmg shield & block oriented builds), and it's a good thing because then the game would still be unbalanced & many medium armor builds unplayable in the competitive scene.
What I do get to do now on my mDK is use the skill more often, which results in more heals and more survivability in PvP than pre-patch.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »That's if you actually manage to fight someone and actually land the FIRST flame lash to even set them off balance in the first place after using talons, if they havent already broken out.
Or god help you if they are using Forward momemtum. Good luck ever landing a single power lash
All there is now on live are stamblades spamming Incap for 16k on everyone and kiting magblads and Wardens of both specs.
Templars are just healing bots, and sorcs keep on keepin on.
This has always been the case, I'm not sure what you're getting at.
To be clear, I still think there's a lot that can be improved on DK to promote more playstyles & different builds, but undodgeable Power Lash was never healthy for the game (have fun playing a bow build for example when people could Fossilize->FL->PL you and you'd be dead with no chance to survive).
We dont use power lash for the heal we use powerlash to GET kills.
It is our de-facto execute, and sustain at the same time. Having the heal when it was dodged does NOTHING for killing capacity. Which the Dk ALREADY lacks from no passives or meaningful skills. Having ultimates is even less about using to kill because we are forced to use them to maintain a modicum of resources because powerlash never lands anymore. And trying to spam heavy attacks will just get you killed.
How is this difficult to understand?
See, that's not very compelling argument.
By your logic, snipes on my bowblade should also be undodgeable because they're my "de facto executes" (Killer's Blade being a melee range skill) that I use to get kills, have to be cast and can be interrupted (or even reflected!).
Yet I have the common sense to realize how toxic such a change would be for many builds out there.
Try to see it from this perspective.
Besides, you can still easily get kills on medium armor builds with a high tooltip Leap at the right moment (here, have an example: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404174/video-a-farewell-to-block-dw-magicka-dk-outnumbered-pvp-7-dragon-boned-patch) - it's just not quite as easy to kill good medium armor players as it was before.
IT is because we have no other way to kill or execute, NB's have multiple different avenues for skills that DONT require two different affects before YOU get to cast yours. all you have to do is press and forget, WE have to setup up an entire rotation to proc ONE effect. That can be cancelled, dodged, blocked, or Forward momentem all cancelling it out1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
I know you try to hide your bias, but it's really just cringe reading your posts.
I'll tell you what's cringy: it's all the people complaining about losing their "I win" button vs dodge roll builds.
Magicka DK is still doing phenomenally in PvP, I'd say it's the 3rd most popular class after rollerblades & sorcs and possibly the most popular when it comes to amount of 1vX videos out there. Videos from this patch.
It's just not as unfair against dodge rollers as it used to be and that sounds fine to me, I wouldn't have been able to make a bow build function in current meta for example if I'd still get one shot by Fossilize->PL->Leap.
So yeah, if wanting more build diversity in the game makes me biased then so be it. In the end everyone is biased one way or another.
The Vivec campaign on PS4 NA ended yesterday with 6 DKs in the top 50.
Yup, phenomenal.
Interesting sample size.
On Vivec PC EU there's currently 29 Sorcs & 27 NBs in the top 100.
Considering around 90% of those sorcs are magicka where as probably 20-30% of the NBs might be magicka, one could easily draw the conclusion that magicka sorcerer is the most popular class in PvP.
But we all know those zerg surfing snipe spammers would never make it to leaderboard with their KDR, so that statistic isn't reliable.
In any case, "phenomenal" was more in reference to its performance in 1vX & 1v1.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
I know you try to hide your bias, but it's really just cringe reading your posts.
This exactly, he has literally no idea what he's talking about.
There is no one on this entire game on any platform that can say they can land more power lashes now lmao wether in PvE or PvP the skill has become trash agaisnt anyone who isn't a brand new player
If the lash is blocked, or dodged, the entire skill is cancelled regardless.
It seems like you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about, as you still get the heal over time from Power Lash even if it is dodged.
I never said I actually land more of them (except vs dmg shield & block oriented builds), and it's a good thing because then the game would still be unbalanced & many medium armor builds unplayable in the competitive scene.
What I do get to do now on my mDK is use the skill more often, which results in more heals and more survivability in PvP than pre-patch.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »That's if you actually manage to fight someone and actually land the FIRST flame lash to even set them off balance in the first place after using talons, if they havent already broken out.
Or god help you if they are using Forward momemtum. Good luck ever landing a single power lash
All there is now on live are stamblades spamming Incap for 16k on everyone and kiting magblads and Wardens of both specs.
Templars are just healing bots, and sorcs keep on keepin on.
This has always been the case, I'm not sure what you're getting at.
To be clear, I still think there's a lot that can be improved on DK to promote more playstyles & different builds, but undodgeable Power Lash was never healthy for the game (have fun playing a bow build for example when people could Fossilize->FL->PL you and you'd be dead with no chance to survive).
We dont use power lash for the heal we use powerlash to GET kills.
It is our de-facto execute, and sustain at the same time. Having the heal when it was dodged does NOTHING for killing capacity. Which the Dk ALREADY lacks from no passives or meaningful skills. Having ultimates is even less about using to kill because we are forced to use them to maintain a modicum of resources because powerlash never lands anymore. And trying to spam heavy attacks will just get you killed.
How is this difficult to understand?
See, that's not very compelling argument.
By your logic, snipes on my bowblade should also be undodgeable because they're my "de facto executes" (Killer's Blade being a melee range skill) that I use to get kills, have to be cast and can be interrupted (or even reflected!).
Yet I have the common sense to realize how toxic such a change would be for many builds out there.
Try to see it from this perspective.
Besides, you can still easily get kills on medium armor builds with a high tooltip Leap at the right moment (here, have an example: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404174/video-a-farewell-to-block-dw-magicka-dk-outnumbered-pvp-7-dragon-boned-patch) - it's just not quite as easy to kill good medium armor players as it was before.
You derail every magDK thread and turn it into the flaws of medium armor. It's like a trademark or something.
You must be stuck on last patch, I don't think medium armor has any issues currently largely thanks to the changes in Dragon Bones.
Ironically, while the changes did help a lot of medium armor builds, I actually think certain popular medium armor builds are somewhat overperforming now.
Stacking 3-4k stam regen allows for way too much dodge roll spamming and creates situations where you're just not able to deal any damage to someone when you have very few undodgeable abilities (and aren't able to burst them down before CC Break->Rally when they have 7 impen & 25k+ health). That needs to be addressed next.0 -
ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we removed a few posts that were baiting. This is a friendly reminder to stay on topic with the original post and to keep posts constructive. While we understand that not everyone will always agree, we expect debates to be productive and not derail into personal insults. If you have any questions on forum rules you can read through them here.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Summerset Changes:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-summerset-isles-changes-pre-pts/Dragonknight
Combustion Passive
Every time you apply burning/poison, you gain 500 magicka or stamina, this has a 5 seconds cooldown.
Cauterize
Radius got upgraded to 28 meters.
Reflective Plate
When activated, this now also removes all snares from you.
Stone Giant
Now grants Minor Ward
Fragmented Shield
This now applies Major Mending for 4-5 seconds.
Cinder Storm
This now heals instead of dealing damage, snare still applies to enemies.
First impression: sounds good to me.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Summerset Changes:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-summerset-isles-changes-pre-pts/Dragonknight
Combustion Passive
Every time you apply burning/poison, you gain 500 magicka or stamina, this has a 5 seconds cooldown.
Cauterize
Radius got upgraded to 28 meters.
Reflective Plate
When activated, this now also removes all snares from you.
Stone Giant
Now grants Minor Ward
Fragmented Shield
This now applies Major Mending for 4-5 seconds.
Cinder Storm
This now heals instead of dealing damage, snare still applies to enemies.
First impression: sounds good to me.
Well meh. Who came up with some of these changes?
We are still stuck with the most crappy passive in the game (elder dragon), a snare removal is useless when you don't get immunity afterwards for atleast 2 seconds.
Cauterize still sucks with 15 or 28m range the heal is too weak and the 5 seconds between heals is just too long
Still no one will use stone giant or a dk healer for that means.
Stamdk got again no love and is still stuck with no burst or class spammable but hey atleast we got some more NB buffs
1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Summerset Changes:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-summerset-isles-changes-pre-pts/Dragonknight
Combustion Passive
Every time you apply burning/poison, you gain 500 magicka or stamina, this has a 5 seconds cooldown.
Cauterize
Radius got upgraded to 28 meters.
Reflective Plate
When activated, this now also removes all snares from you.
Stone Giant
Now grants Minor Ward
Fragmented Shield
This now applies Major Mending for 4-5 seconds.
Cinder Storm
This now heals instead of dealing damage, snare still applies to enemies.
First impression: sounds good to me.
Well meh. Who came up with some of these changes?
We are still stuck with the most crappy passive in the game (elder dragon), a snare removal is useless when you don't get immunity afterwards for atleast 2 seconds.
Cauterize still sucks with 15 or 28m range the heal is too weak and the 5 seconds between heals is just too long
Still no one will use stone giant or a dk healer for that means.
Stamdk got again no love and is still stuck with no burst or class spammable but hey atleast we got some more NB buffs
A snare removal+Minor Ward are still a lot better than more damage on reflected projectiles if you asked me, it's gonna be very impactful in PvP when most DKs already run wings and use them a lot (and now get to remove snares when casting them).
Never used Cauterize, so not gonna comment on that - sounds like more of a healer DK buff than anything else, range doesn't matter in 1vX. Unless they're buffing the range of Flames of Oblivion as well, in that case it's a pretty big buff honestly.
Stam DK... well, we've gotta wait and see how that healing Cinder Storm works. Could be very strong if it scales with highest stat & has a good tooltip (it's stationary, so imo should be stronger heal/second than Vigor).
Could even make bow DK playable if it's a strong heal, as it sort of acts as a kiting tool/area denial.
You're right about Stone Giant though, it's a meh skill imo.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
Let's be honest - No, you aren't getting more Power Lashes on Live. You've thrown a lot of propaganda around in this thread during the PTS, but you cannot say with a straight face that you're getting more Power Lashes now because you aren't.
There's really no reason to keep pushing your anti-Power Lash agenda anymore. It's been over-nerfed significantly. You even tried the peddle what was CLEARLY a bugged extended heal duration as some kind of stealth buff to promote your weird agenda.
It can't be dodged anymore. You should be happy about that. That's what you wanted as a stamblade. But please--PLEASE--don't claim that you're getting more Power Lashes because you aren't. You aren't. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. You aren't getting more of them.Edited by Kilandros on April 3, 2018 4:04PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
Let's be honest - No, you aren't getting more Power Lashes on Live. You've thrown a lot of propaganda around in this thread during the PTS, but you cannot say with a straight face that you're getting more Power Lashes now because you aren't.
There's really no reason to keep pushing your anti-Power Lash agenda anymore. It's been over-nerfed significantly. You even tried the peddle what was CLEARLY a bugged extended heal duration as some kind of stealth buff to promote your weird agenda.
It can't be dodged anymore. You should be happy about that. That's what you wanted as a stamblade. But please--PLEASE--don't claim that you're getting more Power Lashes because you aren't. You aren't. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. You aren't getting more of them.
I'm using Power Lash every 4-5s on average, previously I'd be able to use them only every 7s. Yes, I am using Power Lash more often. Doesn't mean I'm landing (well, atleast vs dodge rollers) it more often, which I think seems to be the cause of confusion here.
It's quite simple: 7s cooldown>3s cooldown. Shorter cooldown, more Power Lash uses.
I did not use Lightning Staff on my mDK pre-patch. I did not use Talons either, which could've reduced the 7s cooldown to 5s cooldown.
Those are just the facts, I don't know what you want me to say.Edited by DDuke on April 3, 2018 4:21PM0 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
Let's be honest - No, you aren't getting more Power Lashes on Live. You've thrown a lot of propaganda around in this thread during the PTS, but you cannot say with a straight face that you're getting more Power Lashes now because you aren't.
There's really no reason to keep pushing your anti-Power Lash agenda anymore. It's been over-nerfed significantly. You even tried the peddle what was CLEARLY a bugged extended heal duration as some kind of stealth buff to promote your weird agenda.
It can't be dodged anymore. You should be happy about that. That's what you wanted as a stamblade. But please--PLEASE--don't claim that you're getting more Power Lashes because you aren't. You aren't. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. You aren't getting more of them.
I know bro, any magdk main can see the obvious truth of not hitting more power lashes.3 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
Let's be honest - No, you aren't getting more Power Lashes on Live. You've thrown a lot of propaganda around in this thread during the PTS, but you cannot say with a straight face that you're getting more Power Lashes now because you aren't.
There's really no reason to keep pushing your anti-Power Lash agenda anymore. It's been over-nerfed significantly. You even tried the peddle what was CLEARLY a bugged extended heal duration as some kind of stealth buff to promote your weird agenda.
It can't be dodged anymore. You should be happy about that. That's what you wanted as a stamblade. But please--PLEASE--don't claim that you're getting more Power Lashes because you aren't. You aren't. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. You aren't getting more of them.
I'm using Power Lash every 4-5s on average, previously I'd be able to use them only every 7s. Yes, I am using Power Lash more often. Doesn't mean I'm landing (well, atleast vs dodge rollers) it more often, which I think seems to be the cause of confusion here.
It's quite simple: 7s cooldown>3s cooldown. Shorter cooldown, more Power Lash uses.
I did not use Lightning Staff on my mDK pre-patch. I did not use Talons either, which could've reduced the 7s cooldown to 5s cooldown.
Those are just the facts, I don't know what you want me to say.
I think you confused a lot people when you say you are hitting more power lashes. The English translation of what you said is basically that you get the same or even more power lashes to hit a target. But it sounds like you are saying you are getting more to proc even if they don’t connect.1 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭A better buff to give would to leave them undodgeable and keep the cool down to 3 secs.2
-
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »So I think at this point we can all agree that we're getting far fewer Power Lashes now than we were before
Its only natural.
Every other skill that is dodgeable - you only land it if your attack is not dodged.
Powerlash - you only land it if TWO of your attacks are not dodged. Its why powerlash was undodgeable in the firstplace.
Oh well.
It's just unfortunate. There were so many people with limited time actually testing the Power Lash changes proclaiming during the PTS that it would actually result in more Power Lashes. As usual PTS testers jumping to conclusions.
...I am still getting more Power Lashes on my mDK on Live than I did before - not sure where this idea that there's suddenly less Power Lashes comes from.
Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
*and not just on the annoying 4k regen dodge roll monkeys, but all medium armor NB builds (apart from tank builds), including less popular ones that couldn't even abuse and spam the mechanic.
Let's be honest - No, you aren't getting more Power Lashes on Live. You've thrown a lot of propaganda around in this thread during the PTS, but you cannot say with a straight face that you're getting more Power Lashes now because you aren't.
There's really no reason to keep pushing your anti-Power Lash agenda anymore. It's been over-nerfed significantly. You even tried the peddle what was CLEARLY a bugged extended heal duration as some kind of stealth buff to promote your weird agenda.
It can't be dodged anymore. You should be happy about that. That's what you wanted as a stamblade. But please--PLEASE--don't claim that you're getting more Power Lashes because you aren't. You aren't. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. You aren't getting more of them.
I'm using Power Lash every 4-5s on average, previously I'd be able to use them only every 7s. Yes, I am using Power Lash more often. Doesn't mean I'm landing (well, atleast vs dodge rollers) it more often, which I think seems to be the cause of confusion here.
It's quite simple: 7s cooldown>3s cooldown. Shorter cooldown, more Power Lash uses.
I did not use Lightning Staff on my mDK pre-patch. I did not use Talons either, which could've reduced the 7s cooldown to 5s cooldown.
Those are just the facts, I don't know what you want me to say.
I think you confused a lot people when you say you are hitting more power lashes. The English translation of what you said is basically that you get the same or even more power lashes to hit a target. But it sounds like you are saying you are getting more to proc even if they don’t connect.
What? At no point have I claimed I land (or hit) with more Power Lashes. I even specifically stated this on the previous page:Whether I actually land more of them vs dodge rollers is another matter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when landing it practically means you got a kill* (kind of the point of those changes).
This is starting to get ridiculous.
Yes, I do get more to proc (not land) than pre-patch & thus I'm also using (not landing) those procs more often since I want the Vigor++ level healing from them atleast. Since you still get the heal even if it gets dodged.
That's what I've been saying. I'm glad that's clear now.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@DDuke.
If they don't land it doesn't mean ***. On the discussion threads on the PTS, you even said you were landing more against non medium targets. Well from experience that still isn't true. Its dodged by those who want to escape the CC. Most people build enough stam management for CC break on CD and spare a few rolls from roots. I believe the saying is "Don't *** and say its raining?"
Its not an I win button, it was a once every 5s hit that required 3 gcds to hit, and could be prevented bymist/purge/preroll/cloak before that first lash lands, or just not getting CC'd, quite possible when you have FM, pots, range or enough mobility.
Most of your posts reek of bias. "Cloak isn't the problem, its dodge..." Ignore the fact that its only NBs who can exploit it that hard. What you want is your build to be great and comparable to all with no sacrifices or counters.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.2 -
Grimhallow✭✭✭Hey guys,
EDIT: My friend proposed an interesting solution. If whip is supposed to remain undodgeable, increasing its range might help balance this change further. Even if people roll dodge, you can hold your whip and let it go when they're done, as most of the time they won't create enough distance to simply disengage the 100% of the time
@Quantum_V @Joy_Division ,
Instead of increasing it's range, give whip a short range teleport. I was running Dragonstar Arena yesterday, and noticed that the vampire DK boss in the 8th round does a power lash that teleports her towards her target. It's freaking unbelievable to watch, and would be a compromise to the chance to miss, because at least you'll have closed the gap.
You lose the consistent pressure from the undodgable damage, but gain enough mobility to stick with your target and keep laying on cc pressure. I feel like this might be a compromise that allows for more counter play than the undodgable flame lash, without over-nerfing DKs, and it also provides some unique gameplay elements that make the class appealing.Edited by Grimhallow on April 3, 2018 5:41PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke.
If they don't land it doesn't mean ***. On the discussion threads on the PTS, you even said you were landing more against non medium targets. Well from experience that still isn't true. Its dodged by those who want to escape the CC. Most people build enough stam management for CC break on CD and spare a few rolls from roots. I believe the saying is "Don't *** and say its raining?"
Its not an I win button, it was a once every 5s hit that required 3 gcds to hit, and could be prevented bymist/purge/preroll/cloak before that first lash lands, or just not getting CC'd, quite possible when you have FM, pots, range or enough mobility.
Most of your posts reek of bias. "Cloak isn't the problem, its dodge..." Ignore the fact that its only NBs who can exploit it that hard. What you want is your build to be great and comparable to all with no sacrifices or counters.
I've certainly been landing more PLs than pre-patch on non-medium targets, so that's just your experience you're talking from.
Of course, the amount of dodge roll monkeys has also gone up exponentially in PvP, so right now in general lots of PLs (and other things, like my snipes & bombards and... well, every.single.ability on the bowblade I play atm) are getting dodged at the moment.
I'm not ignoring that NBs are in a better position to abuse infinite dodge rolling, I've stated multiple times that cloak/shadow image allows them to reset the stacking cost modifier much easier than other classes. However, the underlying issue isn't actually cloak - it's the ridiculous amounts of sustain people can stack on these builds.
Don't believe me? Fight a high dmg build with max. 2k stam regen & 700'ish mag regen and tell me it isn't a much better, balanced experience.
So yeah, while you can easily think "oh, NBs are the problem!", I'm in the unique position where I've played one for over 4 years & I'm able to pinpoint the problem within the NB class rather than just generalize & lump all NBs into one category due to lack of knowledge about the class.Edited by DDuke on April 3, 2018 7:37PM0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Finally a rework to combustion!!!!!
https://prnt.sc/j0utis
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/89e1in/summerset_update_18_teaser_a_recap_of_last_weeks/Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0