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If you play the Dragon Knight class and hoped for better changes in Summerset... Well abandon ship.

  • Sabbathius
    Sabbathius
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    Man, some classes have NEVER had Major Mending. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You guys are crying about imaginary nerfs when Sorcs have been eating dust for years.


    That's not really an argument, logically speaking. Some classes never had stealth, some classes never had pets, some classes never had shields, etc., etc. It's what makes classes unique. The trick is to keep the uniqueness and still achieve balance.
  • Abysswarrior45
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    NyassaV wrote: »
    What the hell are you talking about? They got a Igneous shield buff, snare removal (that no other magicka class has!), and a sustain buff via status effects.

    They got great buffs


    Snare removal WITHOUT snare immunity so its pointless. Everything snares you so it will be immediately reapplied.
  • Abysswarrior45
    Abysswarrior45
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    So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

    Boo hoo.

    DKs always had major mending. Now we have it for 1-2 seconds longer. Still worse than what it was pre-nerf.

    And sometimes you really make me wonder how I do not insult you so hard that my forum account gets suspended.
    Because you truly deserve all of it.

    Man, some classes have NEVER had Major Mending. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You guys are crying about imaginary nerfs when Sorcs have been eating dust for years.

    What?! Lol...
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    NyassaV wrote: »
    What the hell are you talking about? They got a Igneous shield buff, snare removal (that no other magicka class has!), and a sustain buff via status effects.

    They got great buffs


    Snare removal WITHOUT snare immunity so its pointless. Everything snares you so it will be immediately reapplied.

    In the end if you're still taking forward momentum it is truly pointless, so stamDKs will probably not be happy with this since the snare removal is not as good as snare immunity, and wings are too expensive, preventing them from getting more igneous shields.

    and I doubt any magDK will run igneous shields, they never did, and never will.

    Why waste 4k magicka when you can just dragon blood x2 ? see my point? outside of the major mending, the igneous shield is a very weak shield. It scales from max hp. So if you're not a max hp tank its useless.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 3, 2018 8:11PM
  • Rohamad_Ali
    Rohamad_Ali
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    It's true that Wrobel's redefining class skill abilities is lackluster and just unnecessary for DK . More is needed to bring back the stand your ground AOE damage machine feel it's been missing for years .
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

    Boo hoo.

    DKs always had major mending. Now we have it for 1-2 seconds longer. Still worse than what it was pre-nerf.

    And sometimes you really make me wonder how I do not insult you so hard that my forum account gets suspended.
    Because you truly deserve all of it.

    Man, some classes have NEVER had Major Mending. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You guys are crying about imaginary nerfs when Sorcs have been eating dust for years.

    Best class for a long time pre morrowind. Remember 8 sorc runs? And OK pre CWC. You have been bad for 2 patches. DK has been bad since 1.6, with a little bump when DR had infinite sustain, and as of last patch one of the worst overall classes.
    NyassaV wrote: »
    What the hell are you talking about? They got a Igneous shield buff, snare removal (that no other magicka class has!), and a sustain buff via status effects.

    They got great buffs

    Igneous is still a nerf vs before. Mending was 5/6s on igneous, then nerfed to 3s and the 5s was put on the other morph. Similar to frags, but over a few patches. Snare removal. Not immunity. So you remove snares, and get them straight back. Absolutely useless. Wings in its current state is a bit *** too. But if it was removal+immunity it might be useful.
    Faulgor wrote: »
    GIlliam just said on stream that DKs are freaking amazing.

    I'll take his word over your conjectures.

    Gilliam plays PvE. DK (and all magicka really) got a buff for PvE, the status effect changes will be better there. However for cyro PvP they still are low down on the ladder. Both bottom 3.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • AverageJo3Gam3r
    AverageJo3Gam3r
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    PvP wise DKs will be in a great spot. Snare removal on wings is amazing even if it is disappointing it doesn't come with immunity. But realistically, with the changes to 2H, I'll be putting a 2H for forward momentum on the back bar AND not messing up my sets.

    Combustion is a garbage passive. Burning status effect hits for like 400 damage a tick. It's meaningless. Adding sustain on top of already good DK sustain? That means I can drop another regen glyph for another damage glyph. Maybe even add a swift traited jewelry.

    DKs are gonna be lit and I'm loving it.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

    Boo hoo.

    And full snare removal that doesn't count down from 5.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Minno
    Minno
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    NyassaV wrote: »
    What the hell are you talking about? They got a Igneous shield buff, snare removal (that no other magicka class has!), and a sustain buff via status effects.

    They got great buffs


    Snare removal WITHOUT snare immunity so its pointless. Everything snares you so it will be immediately reapplied.

    Not pointless; actual full snare removal. Mist form has the same effect in that when you come out someone can tag you will a snare/immobilze and look how strong that ability can be.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    @Minno
    Comparing that to mist is foolhardy, mist allows you to negate a lot of damage while you maneuver around while removing a snare simply lets me back up and re-apply a snare via stampede. So yeah he's right it is pointless if there's no immunity but again this change isn't IMO what was needed for wings.
    Wings in general are still broken when it comes to reflecting but oh well.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Kilandros
    Kilandros
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    Minno wrote: »
    NyassaV wrote: »
    What the hell are you talking about? They got a Igneous shield buff, snare removal (that no other magicka class has!), and a sustain buff via status effects.

    They got great buffs


    Snare removal WITHOUT snare immunity so its pointless. Everything snares you so it will be immediately reapplied.

    Not pointless; actual full snare removal. Mist form has the same effect in that when you come out someone can tag you will a snare/immobilze and look how strong that ability can be.

    To be fair, snare removal without immunity is indeed not super helpful if you're in caltrops, a ritual, a cinder storm, etc. etc. etc
    Invictus
    Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
    Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
    Sias - Sorcerer / Prefect
    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
  • Minno
    Minno
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    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @Minno
    Comparing that to mist is foolhardy, mist allows you to negate a lot of damage while you maneuver around while removing a snare simply lets me back up and re-apply a snare via stampede. So yeah he's right it is pointless if there's no immunity but again this change isn't IMO what was needed for wings.
    Wings in general are still broken when it comes to reflecting but oh well.

    Maybe, but you are locked out of using other abilities in mist and your Regen is turned off. And the effects are recast when the enemy is out of mist (at least that's when I time my frost root to hit).

    New wings will remove all snares and still lock out some ranged direct DMG builds. Most of you doubt the power of snare removal too much.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    GIlliam just said on stream that DKs are freaking amazing.

    I'll take his word over your conjectures.

    ^^^^ yup.

    I swear, so many ppl just read a few things and then come cry on here about their class getting nerfed. I've looked up the Reddit post, watched some of Gilliam's stream, Woeler's vid, etc. The unanimous opinion on DK is that they were absolutely buffed and pretty much back in the scene.

    Plus it looks like a DK healer might even be viable in Summerset. Not to mention NBs too. Why are people already complaining?
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    Can we please wait for the PTS and test some stuff until we already make such claims? Dk got some fancy this patch and sorc did as well. This forum drives me insane. Dk got sustain buffs, Wings got a nice morph, Mending duration got buffed and so on (stamdk might need a bit more love but mag Dk looks really interesting). Sorc got a huge buff from Runecage, light/heavy attacks will deal much more damage and get a free item slot: If you don't see any buffs here then I don't know.
    I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
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    Is this another "DK is dead" thread?
  • klowdy1
    klowdy1
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Similar thoughts: Taken from my other comments so it may not make sense.

    Honestly, kind of disappointed. The sustain seems OK. But is useless against shields, for mag, other dunmer, and argonians/bosmer for stam, and a bit underwhelming for stamDK which don't really use much poison anyway, really only claw.

    The wings change is awful. Wings base still sucks. The 0.1s of snare free life isn't enough to drop mist. 4s removal and I might run it. But wings as a reflect still sucks. 3 reflects per person. 4s duration and 4s immunity.

    They are cramming healing down our throats, and it doesn't seem well done or good for PvP.
    • Cauterize I used as a solo HoT because its so cheap and saved me mag. Its still awful for a group heal. 1 person every 5s. If you are in a dungeon, you don't need it. If you are in a trial, its laughable.
    • Burst heal cinderstorm is interesting, but they should just have returned it to prior, the evasion) and made cauterize the PBAoE burst heal. Unique. Check. Useful. Check. Fits the theme. Check.
    • Obsidian shart is still useless, its a 1 person heal tieds onto a damage ability. As said. Just remove it and give something better. I vote for move the pull morph here.
    • Obsidian shield got (over a few patches) crystal blasted. Nerfing one and moving the effect to the other morph. It will still be used by healers and stamDKs though, the shield itself was a bit poor outside tanking.

    Claw, breath, and poison injection are all poison damage.
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Minno wrote: »
    NyassaV wrote: »
    What the hell are you talking about? They got a Igneous shield buff, snare removal (that no other magicka class has!), and a sustain buff via status effects.

    They got great buffs


    Snare removal WITHOUT snare immunity so its pointless. Everything snares you so it will be immediately reapplied.

    Not pointless; actual full snare removal. Mist form has the same effect in that when you come out someone can tag you will a snare/immobilze and look how strong that ability can be.

    Its absolutely pointless. Mist, for all its faults, are 4s of CC+snare immunity. This will remove snares, then get them straight back, i.e. with a DK dot on you. At least purge lets you remove dots and defiles too.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Numerikuu
    Numerikuu
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    Can we get a confirmation on Combustion at the very least? Is it keeping the burning/poison damage plus having the resource returns on top? Or is the damage being completely replaced with this new measly resource return? Because if so......[yells internally]
  • StaticWave
    StaticWave
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    Another illogical whine thread..
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Let's start with Combustion now these are changes so that means the current Combustion Passive which gives both Stamina/Magicka DK increased burn/poison damage by 50% at max passive is now removed. @ZOS_Wrobel what happened mate you clearly stated in a live stream you WANTED DK DoTS TO HURT I guess you clearly don't know what the DK class should be; I mean you are the person to state (paraphrased) that "DKs are meant to only pressure a target while they wait for an ally to help finish off the enemy" (this was referring to a PvP question Wrobel answered on ESO live). I just can't with you man seriously like wtf.

    We don't know yet, so there's no reason to get mad.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Cauterize I really don't understand, the DK class albeit an innate support based class wasn't meant to be healing but standing its ground. I've stated before that cauterize should turn into a ability that makes the DK lay a circle or path of lava that damages + heals the targets in that ability. The damage could scale 5% on up and will continue to heal as long as you damage the target in that area (both burn/your own damage would heal you). THIS IDEA emulates what a DK was suppose to do originally I.E STAND HIS GROUND!
    Now obviously my ideas aren't the best for everyone but this is just one taking the DK class as a whole and looking at it from the experiences I've obtained solely playing this class.

    People play their class however they want. It's a buff to magdks who want to be healers. Why are you complaining about this buff?
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Reflective Plate: This idea I honestly don't have much against but I'd rather it changed to one that absorbs the projectiles giving back resources (magicka/health only). Removing a snare just so it can be re-applied on you is just a STUPID idea and again shows how short-sighted these changes are.

    This is by far the most illogical point in your post. You want DKs to have an equivalent of shimmering shield? Do you know how overpowered that would make mag dks? Also, you are the first person to complain about a snare cleanse. They also did not state that the skill is being reworked, so basically, this skill can reflect spells and cleanse snares. This buff is essential for magdks in solo and group pvp, since snares are what usually kill them. Why are you complaining?

    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Stone Giant: Like seriously who cares about this ability, it's been buffed, changed. and still remains unpopular why don't you just change the entire skill and make it something worth using for a change? The Minotaur shaman had this cool molten lava ground bursting move, why can't we have something like that which damages/immobilize+applies minor fracture/breech?

    Similar to the complaint about cauterize change. You already have 2 skills that can immobilize, a third one is overkill. Minor fracture,breach is also unnecessary.
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Fragmented shield: Another useless change that gives this ability major mending but yet again the other morph has what... oh yeah the same buff just a shield. So the bright idea was to re-use a buff because we can't think of anything more interesting to give this ability? Why not make it so that being damaged accumulates the damage and after X amount of seconds 15-30% of the accumulated damage is expelled in x radius placing all targets in the area off balanced?

    Useless? It gives 2s more of major mending, which increases the duration to 5 seconds. 5 seconds of major mending is a lot, because it has the same duration as vigor. This is a buff to stam dk, because they can now have a full duration of mending on their vigor. If they don't remove the shield in this morph, then this is basically igneous pre-nerf. Your suggestion of fragmented shield change is basically similar to blazing shield, but also off balances people. Do you know how stupid your suggestion is?
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Cinder storm... For the love of all that is sensible seriously who thought this is the idea we all needed? YOU HAD A ABILITY BEFORE THAT WORKED! Revert Cinder storms back to what it used to be i.e major evasion when you were standing in it. That original skill was another defining skill that said to the player "You stand and fight" who keeps thinking that DKs want to be some off branded damn Templar, I don't understand.

    Do you have cinder storm in your bar? I can think of many skills that are much better than this one. Again, people have different playstyle. Your point makes no sense. Your suggestion is also unncessary. You want to give magdks major evasion too? Do you know how op that would be?

    This upcoming patch gives magdks a good balance change. Every top tier magdks in pvp I've talked to all agreed that the change is good. Idk why you even made this thread.
    Edited by StaticWave on April 3, 2018 9:59PM
  • Amdar_Godkiller
    Amdar_Godkiller
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    So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

    Boo hoo.

    DKs always had major mending. Now we have it for 1-2 seconds longer. Still worse than what it was pre-nerf.

    And sometimes you really make me wonder how I do not insult you so hard that my forum account gets suspended.
    Because you truly deserve all of it.

    Man, some classes have NEVER had Major Mending. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You guys are crying about imaginary nerfs when Sorcs have been eating dust for years.

    LOL. Just go already. Sorc has never been in a bad place, and it certainly isn't now. Enjoy your now non-toggleable over-tuned "every skill is an execute" class, and leave us the *** alone.
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    Can we please wait for the PTS and test some stuff until we already make such claims? Dk got some fancy this patch and sorc did as well. This forum drives me insane. Dk got sustain buffs, Wings got a nice morph, Mending duration got buffed and so on (stamdk might need a bit more love but mag Dk looks really interesting). Sorc got a huge buff from Runecage, light/heavy attacks will deal much more damage and get a free item slot: If you don't see any buffs here then I don't know.

    Oh it's only just started lol. This is the inevitable initial wave of QQ from self-proclaimed "vets" who have done exactly zero testing, and unsurprisingly stand at odds with those who have.
  • StaticWave
    StaticWave
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    This is not to mention that the snare cleanse in reflective plates will allow stamdks to use rally and heavy armor, similar to before when you can still use shuffle with heavy armor. They won't get major evasion, but if reflective plates can also reflect spells, then this is a buff to stamdks.
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    @Vaoh
    Since your comment is clearly aimed at me I have indeed done testing but not with Summerset and again as I stated before I've voiced my opinions before on the PTS threads for many things even with the first iteration the Mag DKs dragon's blood but which was thankfully changed.
    I'll QQ as I did before when they made helping hands give only 990 stamina instead of the 5% of your max stamina. I'll continue to complain until changes are geared in a way that makes a class stand apart not be the same as every other class.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    This is not to mention that the snare cleanse in reflective plates will allow stamdks to use rally and heavy armor, similar to before when you can still use shuffle with heavy armor. They won't get major evasion, but if reflective plates can also reflect spells, then this is a buff to stamdks.

    I want to ask you one question, do you see stamplars dropping shuffle because they have cleanse? Why do you think
    Snare removal = snare immunity?

    If that was the case templars wouldn't be crying that their class is weak solo. And do you really think spamming wings for mobility is a wise idea? At the expense of your own healing? Cleanse at the very least removes negative effects and even dots, defiles etc. Wings does none of those things.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 3, 2018 9:16PM
  • Murador178
    Murador178
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    I claim it now guys - my class didnt get buffed enough before we even could test it :trollface: .
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    @StaticWave
    Mate as I've stated on my thread like countless times that my changes aren't for everyone and I'm not 100% right about my ideas for everyone. You clearly state I don't know yet and that is fair as many others have pointed out but again I've stated that this is the same rodeo again from the back of thieves guild PTS and more. Changes were made that were terrible and when feedback thread after feedback was posted nothing was done case point helping hands.

    You clearly have never played for a long time if you don't even remember major evasion used to be on cinder storm because again the class is about standing your ground not being a off branded templar healer.

    Your comment about cauterize I seriously don't get your point lol I made a suggestion about making a ability that would heal you on the ground as you apply damage or have the damage from the heal, heal the target(s).

    Reflective plate again my idea isn't for everyone as I said before so literally breaking down each one of my post and saying how it sucks just doesn't make sense when I clearly mention that my ideas aren't the best nor 100% for everyone. You said my idea is stupid but reflective plate being cleansed so it can be re-applied due to lack of immunity seems smart to you... very interesting on how we think.

    Stone giant the same thing too like seriously come up with a better suggestion as I said mine isn't the best.

    Fragmented shield change was simply PURE LAZINESS end of story... No but seriously what I wanted was something more useful something that makes me wanna choose fragmented shield over igneous shield. The answer isn't just increasing the major mending buff by 2 seconds on the other morph just because there wasn't another idea presented to make it UNIQUE.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    @Ragnarock41
    Thanks mate I could've have said it any better, anyone who thinks reflective plate is good as the changes listed is completely lying if they say they play a DK. Who who swamp that out for dragon fire scales that sends back projectiles with increased damage?
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @Vaoh
    Since your comment is clearly aimed at me I have indeed done testing but not with Summerset and again as I stated before I've voiced my opinions before on the PTS threads for many things even with the first iteration the Mag DKs dragon's blood but which was thankfully changed.
    I'll QQ as I did before when they made helping hands give only 990 stamina instead of the 5% of your max stamina. I'll continue to complain until changes are geared in a way that makes a class stand apart not be the same as every other class.

    As the bolded part says, you have *not* done any testing for Summerset.

    Not only are we working off of unfinished, unreleased patch notes that will likely go through many more changes.... but we are basing it off of what the playtesters can remember or wrote down. Hold off on your judgement until the Summerset PTS goes up with Official patch notes. So far the only valid feedback on the topic comes from those who have actually play tested Summerset Isles - this does not include you.

    Worth noting btw is that (as far as what I've read) testers are all reporting very positive feedback especially for DKs.

    Save the complaints and QQ until you have something legitimate to stand on.
  • code65536
    code65536
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    What I've heard is that mag DK is now doing the most DPS of any build. The Combustion change looks to be a much-needed boost to the DK's sustain, which in turn allows it to do the kind of damage that it will be able to next patch.
    Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU

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  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
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    Remove all snares and you're still crying??? You DKs......
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
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