If you play the Dragon Knight class and hoped for better changes in Summerset... Well abandon ship.

MaxwellC

A few players got access to see some of the changes and unfortunately as per Alcasts' site; Dragon Knight still hasn't received any impactful/meaningful changes.
Disclaimer: Alcast on the site clearly mentions pulling this from memory so the information maybe slightly inaccurate.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-summerset-isles-changes-pre-pts/

As an experience Dragon Knight player who literally only plays this class both Stamina/Magicka variants, performing all roles from Damage Dealer, Tank, and even Healer; Frankly I'm extremely disappointed with the supposed changes I've seen listed by @Alcast
Here's a list of the changes as per Alcasts' site.

• Combustion Passive -Every time you apply burning/poison, you gain 500 magicka or stamina, this has a 5 seconds cooldown.
• Cauterize - Radius got upgraded to 28 meters.
• Reflective Plate -When activated, this now also removes all snares from you.
• Stone Giant - Now grants Minor Ward
• Fragmented Shield - This now applies Major Mending for 4-5 seconds.
• Cinder Storm - This now heals instead of dealing damage, snare still applies to enemies.

Let's start with Combustion now these are changes so that means the current Combustion Passive which gives both Stamina/Magicka DK increased burn/poison damage by 50% at max passive is now removed. @ZOS_Wrobel what happened mate you clearly stated in a live stream you WANTED DK DoTS TO HURT I guess you clearly don't know what the DK class should be; I mean you are the person to state (paraphrased) that "DKs are meant to only pressure a target while they wait for an ally to help finish off the enemy" (this was referring to a PvP question Wrobel answered on ESO live). I just can't with you man seriously like wtf.https://twitch.tv/videos/44145484

Cauterize I really don't understand, the DK class albeit an innate support based class wasn't meant to be healing but standing its ground. I've stated before that cauterize should turn into a ability that makes the DK lay a circle or path of lava that damages + heals the targets in that ability. The damage could scale 5% on up and will continue to heal as long as you damage the target in that area (both burn/your own damage would heal you). THIS IDEA emulates what a DK was suppose to do originally I.E STAND HIS GROUND!
Now obviously my ideas aren't the best for everyone but this is just one taking the DK class as a whole and looking at it from the experiences I've obtained solely playing this class.

Reflective Plate: This idea I honestly don't have much against but I'd rather it changed to one that absorbs the projectiles giving back resources (magicka/health only). Removing a snare just so it can be re-applied on you is just a STUPID idea and again shows how short-sighted these changes are.

Stone Giant: Like seriously who cares about this ability, it's been buffed, changed. and still remains unpopular why don't you just change the entire skill and make it something worth using for a change? The Minotaur shaman had this cool molten lava ground bursting move, why can't we have something like that which damages/immobilize+applies minor fracture/breech?

Fragmented shield: Another useless change that gives this ability major mending but yet again the other morph has what... oh yeah the same buff just a shield. So the bright idea was to re-use a buff because we can't think of anything more interesting to give this ability? Why not make it so that being damaged accumulates the damage and after X amount of seconds 15-30% of the accumulated damage is expelled in x radius placing all targets in the area off balanced?

Cinder storm... For the love of all that is sensible seriously who thought this is the idea we all needed? YOU HAD A ABILITY BEFORE THAT WORKED! Revert Cinder storms back to what it used to be i.e major evasion when you were standing in it. That original skill was another defining skill that said to the player "You stand and fight" who keeps thinking that DKs want to be some off branded damn Templar, I don't understand.

I write this because I'm pissed short and simple. I'm extremely passionate about this class and loved it since I played on my friends PC when he showed me it way back then. I loved the original Flames of Oblivion skill that made me looked like a warrior encased in brilliant fire as he rampages through-out the battle field.

MaxwellC

Now again clearly all changes I've listed aren't the best for everyone (as I stated above); I wrote this because I'm concerned about my weak class (PvP perspective).
Now as Alcast stated these are changes from memory so maybe these aren't all the changes but then again this is me just trying to find a light at this increasingly dim tunnel.

There's plenty of changes that can be made and here are some of the passives/skills I believed need to be changed to something else, anyone can fill in the blank of what those changes need because I can't be the one that knows what's 100% best for the DK class regardless of my play-time,etc.

Asterisk* icon represents it being fine but could use changes.
Ardent Flames
Ardent passive : Warmth, World in ruin*
Standard of Might, Shifting Standard, Molten Whip, Burning Embers, Noxious Breath, Empowering Chains, Unrelenting chains, Flames of Oblivion, and Cauterize.

Draconic Power
Hardened Armor, Choking talons, Green Dragons' Blood, Reflect Scale.
Draconic passive: Iron skin, Burning Heart, Elder Dragon

Earthen Heart
Magma armor, Igneous weapons, Stonefist, Cinder storm, Shattering rocks,
Earthen Heart Passive: Battle Roar*, Helping Hands.

Dracane

Still better and more interesting than what Sorcerers got
Sorcerer was even nerfed in some ways, I'm mainly looking at the persistence passive. The Staminazation of the class is continuing once more.

MaxwellC

@Dracane @MLGProPlayer Both of you commented on my post without reading my post which is easily represented by the time stamps and while I typed the second post and titled it "reserved" you had already commented.

I thank you for bumping my thread but please mate I only care about the Dragon Knight class I could care less about your Sorcerer, your Nightblade, your Templar, and your Warden. Those classes needs it changes sure but this is a thread dedicated to my passion for the Dragon Knight class and not another.

Linus04

Is sure that old Combustion effect will be removed? Or new effect will be just added to old one? Because it's hard to believe that they just remove it, it's quite damage nerf...

Violynne

MaxwellC wrote: »

Disclaimer: Alcast on the site clearly mentions pulling this from memory so the information maybe slightly inaccurate.

His other disclaimer also said things can change between PTS and release.

Every release. Every time.

MaxwellC

@Linus04
These are changes so I'm making that assumption that it is indeed removed; Maybe @ZOS_GinaBruno could clarify on the changes but if it seriously is removed then this just shows how disconnected ZOS is with the rest of the player base. If the class representative had any hand in this then they are surely disconnected as well.

MaxwellC

@Violynne
Yes and not showing any form of retaliation to changes you dislike will definitely not get it changed and have it remain as it is. I need to voice my frustration so hopefully someone at ZOS sees this and maybe gives my idea(s) the time of day or at-least sees where I'm coming from.
Not doing a damn thing doesn't get it changed but then again even back when I literally ripped ZOS consistently about the stupid changes DKs where dealt in the past we instead GOT NOTHING CHANGED... BUT on the other hand when sorcerers cried about a change they stated something about a "Overwhelming support" and reverted a change that they hated.

Edit:On the nothing part we did get some changes but very few on the grand scale of things. I was outspoken to the first iteration of the changes given to Mag DKs dragon's blood and I'd love to think I helped made it was it is today (an actual reliable heal for Mag DKs)

ak_pvp

Similar thoughts: Taken from my other comments so it may not make sense.

Honestly, kind of disappointed. The sustain seems OK. But is useless against shields, for mag, other dunmer, and argonians/bosmer for stam, and a bit underwhelming for stamDK which don't really use much poison anyway, really only claw.

The wings change is awful. Wings base still sucks. The 0.1s of snare free life isn't enough to drop mist. 4s removal and I might run it. But wings as a reflect still sucks. 3 reflects per person. 4s duration and 4s immunity.

They are cramming healing down our throats, and it doesn't seem well done or good for PvP.

• Cauterize I used as a solo HoT because its so cheap and saved me mag. Its still awful for a group heal. 1 person every 5s. If you are in a dungeon, you don't need it. If you are in a trial, its laughable.
• Burst heal cinderstorm is interesting, but they should just have returned it to prior, the evasion) and made cauterize the PBAoE burst heal. Unique. Check. Useful. Check. Fits the theme. Check.
• Obsidian shart is still useless, its a 1 person heal tieds onto a damage ability. As said. Just remove it and give something better. I vote for move the pull morph here.
• Obsidian shield got (over a few patches) crystal blasted. Nerfing one and moving the effect to the other morph. It will still be used by healers and stamDKs though, the shield itself was a bit poor outside tanking.

Violynne

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Violynne
Yes and not showing any form of retaliation to changes you dislike will definitely not get it changed and have it remain as it is. I need to voice my frustration so hopefully someone at ZOS sees this and maybe gives my idea(s) the time of day or at-least sees where I'm coming from.
Not doing a damn thing doesn't get it changed but then again even back when I literally ripped ZOS consistently about the stupid changes DKs where dealt in the past we instead GOT NOTHING CHANGED... BUT on the other hand when sorcerers cried about a change they stated something about a "Overwhelming support" and reverted a change that they hated.

I understand your reasoning behind the post, but here's the thing: ZoS just took in feedback from the recently invited players, so they're going to put a priority on this.

This means it's likely even more changes will be made prior to the release of PTS.

We're going to get even more updates, but it's extremely unlikely ZoS is going to read the comments at this point.

Once the additional information comes from PTS and you still see an issue, that's probably going to be a more effective time to present feedback.

Believe me, I'm not criticizing your post. It's just it happens every. single. time. and it's as though people just don't learn their lessons from previous releases.

Patience.

xbobx

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Try being a warden main.

and it had almost no changed when it was one of the ones that needed it the most.

josiahva

"DKs are meant to only pressure a target while they wait for an ally to help finish off the enemy"

This just shows the unbridled bias ZOS has toward the class of DK. Why should we have the one class that cant do anything on its own? Why should I have to wait for help that likely isn't coming? Why does every other class get to be able to finish opponents on their own while we have "wait for help"? No doubt, DKs make an excellent support class when built that way, but why do we have to play it that way? I thought it was all about playing like you want.

Right now my magicka DK is barely viable in PvP. Most of these changes mean nothing to that build...but the changes to reflective plate are just plain stupid. This isnt going to make me choose reflective plate over Dragon Fire Scale...scale is one of the few DPS boosting abilities I have that doesn't drain my already sub-par sustain...snare removal isn't worth a thing considering you get multiple snares every second in PvP. Fargmented shield is already a delayed DPS ability...why would I want major mending on it? I can choose Igneous if I wanted that...if they want to give me major mending in ADDITION to the DPS burst of fragmented, then I am fine with it, but I sure hope they dont mean they will replace the damage with major mending...I rarely use this ability as it is unless I am wearing light armor...again, this wont make me choose to slot this skill. What we need are damage increases and/or magicka cost reduction...and please, revert the changes to whip...it was one of our few means of sustain

NordDK

God only knows what line of thinking led to these changes. Stam DK is bottom of the barrel garbage in PVP, and mag DK is pretty much not worth using in PVE. Mag DK is also still low on the totem pole in PVP. None of these changes help any of that, seems all they've done is hurt dps via combustion changes. I think they're trying to make DK healer a thing, but they're doing a *** poor job of it. I hope anyone still playing this class likes tanking, because that and stam dps are all it really has going for it.

This type of crap is why I don't actually play this game anymore. Had some hope for the Summerset changes, but it's looking like I might as well save my money and clear up some space on my hard drive, because they're giving me no reason to come back.

Aebaradath

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

Boo hoo.

We already have Major Mending. Not surprised your attitude hasn't changed.

Ch4mpTW

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert Are you all serious right now...? Seriously?

MaxwellC

@Violynne As I stated before I'm not entirely sure if those class representatives had a hand in these changes but if they did they are surely disconnected as well. Just because we had a class representative doesn't mean they're a good one that looks at the entire class but this can also be said about anyone including myself.

I understand where you're coming from and I understood that you weren't criticizing my post I was just criticizing what you seem to eluded i.e not giving my feedback till the official response had be given from the horses mouth but then again it came from Alcast who does have deep ties with ZOS.

I also doubted that ZOS would read what I had to say as I stated before but I can only hope they do and my reasoning(s) for doubting is the major support for reverting changes to helping hands that has left it a dismal wreck of a passive. We had pages on pages of people wanting this reverted but again this was met with it shoved down our throats.

Sigtric

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

Boo hoo.

We already have Major Mending. Not surprised your attitude hasn't changed.

That person's post history indicates they have very little clue how things actually work and what the real issues are... just move along..

TiberiusTryton

I am also a DK only since beta..... refuse to change.

Combustion Passive - Stop it.... leave it the way it is!

Cauterize - Still weak / wouldn't change out mag light for it because of guild passives.

Reflective Plate - I like... I would like something like immovable instead of snare remove but we are talking about DK and we will be forever nerfed because of Emp/Vamp/DK back in early days.

Stone Giant - I actually use this in PvP over Fossilize at the moment // reverting back to fossilize when another DK kills me with it but the nerf range to fossilize is just stupid... I use this for buff and hard cc now. the minor ward I hope is added and not replaced. We still need it to give resolve... we already get ward from reflective plate.

Fragmented Shield - WACK

Cinder Storm - How much heal is the question.... this could be a big change but it better be a huge heal to fit on anyones bar.


P.S. How many are going to go Shakle and Axiom now?????? seems legit for almost every class.

MaxwellC

@Emma_Overload
We always had major mending? I don't get your point at all; I'll continue to voice my frustrations until this class is brought to its former glory where I could hold my ground and not feel that my class is screwed in PvP. PvE wise we've got some good things but changes to current skills could open our skill-set out to be more versatile in damaging targets with a Player based AoE that increases DoT damage or maybe having a tank using fragmented shield with the change I listed above.

Seraphayel

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

Boo hoo.

DKs have Major Mending for quite a time now.

OP is right. I still root for the PTS notes. This can't be everything.

ak_pvp

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

Boo hoo.

Mending was 5/6s on igneous, then nerfed to 3s and the 5s was put on the other morph. It was crystal blasted if you will.

Emma_Overload

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Emma_Overload
We always had major mending? I don't get your point at all; I'll continue to voice my frustrations until this class is brought to its former glory where I could hold my ground and not feel that my class is screwed in PvP. PvE wise we've got some good things but changes to current skills could open our skill-set out to be more versatile in damaging targets with a Player based AoE that increases DoT damage or maybe having a tank using fragmented shield with the change I listed above.

Except your class is not "screwed in PvP". I run into unkillable DKs all the time, who still somehow can turn around and kill you with that leap thing. DKs are strong, and they've been strong for months. That's why there are millions of them all over Cyrodiil! I must see 5 DKs for every Sorc I come across... that's ridiculous!

Violynne

MaxwellC wrote: »

I also doubted that ZOS would read what I had to say as I stated before but I can only hope they do and my reasoning(s) for doubting is the major support for reverting changes to helping hands that has left it a dismal wreck of a passive.

My advice, if you don't mind?

Hyperbole isn't going to get you read even if there was a chance ZoS reads these posts.

The very title of this discussion shows you're already willing to give up with "Abandon ship". Every single day, this forum is filled with requests to "nerf this, buff that, fix it" and each can be meaningful.

Do me a favor. Calm down. Leave for about 30 minutes. Come back and read your post again.

There are better ways to express your frustration, and the "nerf this, buff that, fix it" declarations don't come off as constructive feedback, but more of a statement of command.

I do admit you do have good points, but the attitude ruins it.

Sorry, just calling it as I read it.

Ragnarock41

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

Boo hoo.

DKs always had major mending. Now we have it for 1-2 seconds longer. Still worse than what it was pre-nerf.

And sometimes you really make me wonder how I do not insult you so hard that my forum account gets suspended.
Because you truly deserve all of it.

Sabbathius

Eh, I don't know why people expected any different. I don't know who exactly at ZOS is responsible for these changes, but as far as I know it's still the same people who thought last year's Dragon Blood on PTS was a good idea, the one that healed for 33% of *missing magicka*? Yeah, they actually put that nonsense onto PTS for us to test. Remember that? And these are presumably also the guys who created the original Zaan and needed us to tell them, on PTS, that it's absolutely insane. And even toned down it's still arguably quite insane. So with these people at the wheel, I don't know why anyone would expect anything to change much.


There's still hope. They will put the patch on PTS in a few weeks. And we get to shout ourselves hoarse trying to get them to notice and listen. But me personally, I'm done with that. Last PTS cycle, I don't think DKs got any of the ZOS replies on PTS forum, to any of our threads. And all the changes they made, including the ridiculous cooldown on Power Lash in a game that isn't supposed to have cooldowns, seem to be sticking around.

However, I'm not in the abandon ship stage yet. Look at new jewelry alone. There's so much potential for fun, not just from 5/5/2 that is finally available for staves, but also from the new traits on jewelry. Plus the new Psijic line, on top of existing ones. I'm quite hopeful that between all that, every class will be able to supplement and seal up any glaring weaknesses they may have, even if they have to ditch most class abilities and just use class-neutral skills from weapons and guilds and world skills. The more of these we get, the easier that will become.

MaxwellC

@Emma_Overload
Lol that was amusing I'll take the suggestion of another forum member and move along.

@Violynne
Abandon ship in my title is to gather attention so people can be curious as to what I'm worried about. I'm pissed because this type of thing has been going on for a long time and again I've yet to see changes that are impactful/meaningful to my class as a WHOLE.
I'll keep up the good fight no matter how long it takes, my class deserves better.

NyassaV

What the hell are you talking about? They got a Igneous shield buff, snare removal (that no other magicka class has!), and a sustain buff via status effects.

They got great buffs

Emma_Overload

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

Boo hoo.

DKs always had major mending. Now we have it for 1-2 seconds longer. Still worse than what it was pre-nerf.

And sometimes you really make me wonder how I do not insult you so hard that my forum account gets suspended.
Because you truly deserve all of it.

Man, some classes have NEVER had Major Mending. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You guys are crying about imaginary nerfs when Sorcs have been eating dust for years.

Faulgor

GIlliam just said on stream that DKs are freaking amazing.

I'll take his word over your conjectures.

Ragnarock41

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So DKs got Major Mending and they're still crying?

Boo hoo.

DKs always had major mending. Now we have it for 1-2 seconds longer. Still worse than what it was pre-nerf.

And sometimes you really make me wonder how I do not insult you so hard that my forum account gets suspended.
Because you truly deserve all of it.

Man, some classes have NEVER had Major Mending. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You guys are crying about imaginary nerfs when Sorcs have been eating dust for years.

I mean, I'm asking changes to the literal worst PvP class here, I think I am very reasonable when I say 2 extra seconds on major mending is not really a massive buff since we are on a defile meta. It used to be 6 seconds before.

And here you are complaining to me, because your magsorc doesn't have major mending on top of 20k pvp shields? Seriously?

You know what. I'm done. You win forums. You win. You will see that I'm right when there is not a single stamDk left roaming cyrodiil, but isn't that what you ask for anyways?

Abysswarrior45

Dracane wrote: »

Still better and more interesting than what Sorcerers got
Sorcerer was even nerfed in some ways, I'm mainly looking at the persistence passive. The Staminazation of the class is continuing once more.

Weren't sorcs buffed though??? Your CC puts a dks to shame.