Should detect pot be 100% uptime?

Rianai · March 2018

Ok, you don't like nightblades escaping from zergs, but then don't tell me, that's not your issue with cloak ...

Lord-Otto · March 2018

Rianai wrote: »

Ok, you don't like nightblades escaping from zergs, but then don't tell me, that's not your issue with cloak ...

ESCAPE is cool. But turning around at will to instaburst people is not. Because this leads to NBs just trolling groups with Cloak until Incap is ready.
You should escape, but you should be out of combat for a bit. The more regen you have built for, the faster you can re-engage.
I have to play by those rules, and so should NBs.

And don't forget I want excessive Cloak spam in "normal" fights to reset it to invoke a penalty.

Rianai · March 2018

A cloak cost penalty wouldn't limit a stamblades ability to "turn arround and instaburst" unless it can't escape and dies. It would be a nerf to their escape, not a nerf to their burst.
Magblades didn't had that much frontloaded burst until the recent changes to Merciless Resolve, which made it a lot easier to keep the bow proc up even when playing defensive. So how about reverting this instead of nerfing cloak?

Cloak spam does nothing but letting a nb escape/reset, which allows the opponent(s) to reset too, be it in a 1vs1 or against a zerg. You can't change one without affecting the other.

Feanor · March 2018

Valar Morghulis. But we are Nightblades.

DDuke · March 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Ok, you don't like nightblades escaping from zergs, but then don't tell me, that's not your issue with cloak ...

ESCAPE is cool. But turning around at will to instaburst people is not. Because this leads to NBs just trolling groups with Cloak until Incap is ready.
You should escape, but you should be out of combat for a bit. The more regen you have built for, the faster you can re-engage.
I have to play by those rules, and so should NBs.

And don't forget I want excessive Cloak spam in "normal" fights to reset it to invoke a penalty.

Ok then, how do you propose a bow build would function then? I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die, because cloak has some ridiculous stacking cost modifier?

I understand you must be thinking: "sorcs got stacking cost modifier on streak, so NBs should have one on Cloak too", but don't forget that sorcs also have 15k/cast dmg shields while bow build NBs have... 1k/second Vigor and dodge roll that runs you out of stamina in no time unless you play a *** meta rollerblade.

It's the same for DW/Bow & DW/DW builds as well btw, you need multiple cloaks to recover from burst when your only heal is Vigor.

You should really consider the non-meta builds as well when making your suggestions; this game needs more build diversity, not less.

Lord-Otto · March 2018

Ria, Stamblades have fantastic tools to escape. They don't need Cloak spam, and if they want, they can happily build into more magicka sustain.
And a NB resetting the fight is heavily in favor of said NB. I want to see a penalty to that, just like every other class.

Duke, bow builds aren't competitive and I don't care for them. Again, don't talk to a magsorc about build diversity. What you described with gapclose zergs is exactly what sorcs are dealing with. Shields aren't 15k per second, and Vigor isn't 1k per. Even for a hyperbole comparison, this is way off and doesn't serve this discussion.

Feanor · March 2018

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

DDuke · March 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ria, Stamblades have fantastic tools to escape. They don't need Cloak spam, and if they want, they can happily build into more magicka sustain.
And a NB resetting the fight is heavily in favor of said NB. I want to see a penalty to that, just like every other class.

Duke, bow builds aren't competitive and I don't care for them. Again, don't talk to a magsorc about build diversity. What you described with gapclose zergs is exactly what sorcs are dealing with. Shields aren't 15k per second, and Vigor isn't 1k per. Even for a hyperbole comparison, this is way off and doesn't serve this discussion.

Well, maybe I should stop 1vXing with bow then since you say those builds aren't competitive

They might not be popular, but they certainly get just as many kills as the rollerblades (and twice as fast mind you, without all the stupid dodge dodge dodge dodge dodge cloak dodge dodge incap relentless repeat spam).

There's absolutely no reason to ruin these builds & force everyone into the boring rollerblade playstyle.

Right now on my bowblade (3650 wpn dmg) I'm healing for 1272/2149(crit) with Vigor, so it isn't exactly 1k/second without Defiles on me (1710/s on average with 50% crit chance) so I might've exaggerated a little.

With Defiles on me I've had Vigor tick for less than 700 though.

...Hardened Ward (and Dampen Magic) can definitely get to 15k+ though with 50k+ magicka (would check for the exact amount of Build Editor wasn't broken right now), though for most builds it's around 13k'ish "only".

Even for the weakest builds, it instantly prevents more damage than Vigor heals over 5 seconds. And that's a fact.

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

My proposal is to remove the stacking cost modifier from Streak/Ball of Lightning, make it faster (more responsive, no delay etc) & giving all other classes similar kiting/dmg avoidance tools.

I'm fully aware NB is the only class you can play things like bow builds with (stam sorc is almost viable) & I'm not pleased with the fact.

Oh, and instead of nerfing cloak I'd nerf Piercing Mark to the ground & set it aflame. Such a *** skill to exist.

Should be changed to something more universally useful, but not something so punishing to the more cloak reliant NB builds.

Magelight/Camo Hunter could use some small buffs though, I almost never get revealed by them (though I do play a bow build, I don't tend to be in melee range of people using those).

Rianai · March 2018

Cost decrease and maybe even a slight range increase for stealth counters such as Magelight would be reasonable imo. As long it doesn't turn into Piercing Mark 2.0 ...

Xsorus · March 2018

To fight any sort of Stamina Nightblade right now you need Defile, 100% need it.

WaltherCarraway · March 2018

WTF is this? Every single time Nightblades appear to be overtuned and dramatically ahead of the other classes, drones and drones of people swarm in to say, “Hey, NB’s are just perfect right now. They don’t need anything changed.” WTF? Why not Sorcs? Why not Templars and Wardens? Why not DK’s?

Sorcs were “perfect” when they had longer wards, and didn’t have a penalty on Bolt Escape. They were “perfect” when pets could hold aggro and taunt bosses, if the Sorc player was solo. But all that was changed, because it was viewed as “overperforming”. But Nightblades aren’t overperforming currently?

Templars were fine when they had their disorient and stun on their AoE spear, and when they had Major Mending. But no. That was viewed as “too strong”, and was striped away from them. They were fine when they could start using Radiant Destruction on targets below 50% health, but again. That was viewed as “too strong”. Yet Nightblades are fine and perfect, right?

And the F’ing DK’s. DK’s were fine when they could reflect Meteor. They were fine when their Fossilize has a larger range, and was capable of actually being front line soldiers. But again, all of that was viewed as far too much. And you cut them down patch after freaking patch. And again, Nightblades are fine. Right?

And then with the Wardens. Because people’s dodge roll monkey blades couldn’t cheese the damn birds, you go and give them a gut blow to their spammable. Because that was unfair to the vast majority of the player base (who just so happens to main NB’s). Am I right? And look at the state of magicka Wardens now. G freaking G.

But oh. Let alone mention anything about how much this game is plagued by the pestilence of Nightblades, and the waves of defenders come out of the bush like Charlie in ‘Nam. Literally ambushing the thread, and claiming how their precious class is “just perfect”. Yeah. I get it now. Just perfect at overperforming.

And you devs? You devs do nothing. You don’t do a damn thing about it. For years now you’ve done nothing about the Nightblade problem, but go and give them more and more tools to stand out and be the top class. Even streamers like @FENGRUSH has said on numerous occasions about how bs the class is, and how strong the element of stealth is in PvP. And again, it falls on deaf ears. Why? Because it’s the dev’s favorite. It’s the class that the majority of the player base mains across all platforms, and therefore you devs take the coward route. You’d rather go and give the shaft to every other class, and buff the most overperforming class (even if indirectly). Rather than do what’s right, and bring things in line with each other. And it’s stupid. It’s literally stupid.

I have said it before, and I’ll keep saying it. You devs are EXACTLY like Blizzard when it comes to Genji. The Overwatch version of a Nightblade. And because it is the “assassin character”, you all refuse to do what is right in bringing the hero in line with everyone else. Or in this case, the class. So my question is this, to the Rich Lambert’s and Matt’s and Wrobels. When are you going to give Nightblades a katana-esque ultimate, and add in some random dragon effects? When are you going to let Nightblades throw shuriken, and wall climb? When are you going to let Nightblade skills on cooldown have a reset whenever they assist in killing someone? When are you going to give the class an overall more Japanese vibe? Because pretty much, that’s all that is needed to have the 2 fall in line with each other. You already have the majority of the player base playing the class for obvious reasons. You might as well just put the icing on the cake, and be done with it.

Ey, don’t tell me all nb skills are predictable, if you can’t hit 1 out of 10 incaps on me then you should go L2P.

AFAIK Miat were only able to prompt snipe, don’t use an addon as the excuse to blame every opinons “against” NB, thank you.

Mazbt · March 2018

NB's, especially stam variant horribly overtuned in terms of single target damage especially in pvp. If you wanna be in denial of this it's fine but at least be honest...I want my stamblade to be super powerful...I want my stamblade to kite forever and able to heal for so much with vigor/cloak. The defile CP does not help either. Will be very nice if they get rid of that cp outright. since it stacks with the defile from incap...

Murador178 · March 2018

Emma_Overload wrote: »

If Detect potions need a 30 second cooldown, then Shield Breaker needs a 30 second cooldown, too.

what about duroks then

Malibulove · March 2018

It's funny that every NB approaches the discussion like they're 1vXing on the forums, then you step into Cyrodiil and the vast majority of NBs are Xv1 Bowtards who hang around in zergs and stay 30m away at all times so stealth detection is meaningless.

If anything Cloak should put you in Combat so you can't go back into sneak without being visible for a period of time, and if a Detect pot is active on a target they should be able to see you if you've dotted them even if you're 20m+ away.

Stamblades are fine, it's being stuck in the purgatory of perma-combat while Lethal Arrow spammers continuously reset fights that's really annoying.

Hell at the very least the game should drop both parties out of combat the moment a NB bails on a fight, it's obnoxious as hell how my mDK gets stuck in combat for 30~ seconds just because somebody tagged me with a PI then cloaked away to sneak.

ak_pvp · March 2018

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

WTF is this? Every single time Nightblades appear to be overtuned and dramatically ahead of the other classes, drones and drones of people swarm in to say, “Hey, NB’s are just perfect right now. They don’t need anything changed.” WTF? Why not Sorcs? Why not Templars and Wardens? Why not DK’s?

Sorcs were “perfect” when they had longer wards, and didn’t have a penalty on Bolt Escape. They were “perfect” when pets could hold aggro and taunt bosses, if the Sorc player was solo. But all that was changed, because it was viewed as “overperforming”. But Nightblades aren’t overperforming currently?

Templars were fine when they had their disorient and stun on their AoE spear, and when they had Major Mending. But no. That was viewed as “too strong”, and was striped away from them. They were fine when they could start using Radiant Destruction on targets below 50% health, but again. That was viewed as “too strong”. Yet Nightblades are fine and perfect, right?

And the F’ing DK’s. DK’s were fine when they could reflect Meteor. They were fine when their Fossilize has a larger range, and was capable of actually being front line soldiers. But again, all of that was viewed as far too much. And you cut them down patch after freaking patch. And again, Nightblades are fine. Right?

And then with the Wardens. Because people’s dodge roll monkey blades couldn’t cheese the damn birds, you go and give them a gut blow to their spammable. Because that was unfair to the vast majority of the player base (who just so happens to main NB’s). Am I right? And look at the state of magicka Wardens now. G freaking G.

But oh. Let alone mention anything about how much this game is plagued by the pestilence of Nightblades, and the waves of defenders come out of the bush like Charlie in ‘Nam. Literally ambushing the thread, and claiming how their precious class is “just perfect”. Yeah. I get it now. Just perfect at overperforming.

And you devs? You devs do nothing. You don’t do a damn thing about it. For years now you’ve done nothing about the Nightblade problem, but go and give them more and more tools to stand out and be the top class. Even streamers like @FENGRUSH has said on numerous occasions about how bs the class is, and how strong the element of stealth is in PvP. And again, it falls on deaf ears. Why? Because it’s the dev’s favorite. It’s the class that the majority of the player base mains across all platforms, and therefore you devs take the coward route. You’d rather go and give the shaft to every other class, and buff the most overperforming class (even if indirectly). Rather than do what’s right, and bring things in line with each other. And it’s stupid. It’s literally stupid.

I have said it before, and I’ll keep saying it. You devs are EXACTLY like Blizzard when it comes to Genji. The Overwatch version of a Nightblade. And because it is the “assassin character”, you all refuse to do what is right in bringing the hero in line with everyone else. Or in this case, the class. So my question is this, to the Rich Lambert’s and Matt’s and Wrobels. When are you going to give Nightblades a katana-esque ultimate, and add in some random dragon effects? When are you going to let Nightblades throw shuriken, and wall climb? When are you going to let Nightblade skills on cooldown have a reset whenever they assist in killing someone? When are you going to give the class an overall more Japanese vibe? Because pretty much, that’s all that is needed to have the 2 fall in line with each other. You already have the majority of the player base playing the class for obvious reasons. You might as well just put the icing on the cake, and be done with it.

Ey, don’t tell me all nb skills are predictable, if you can’t hit 1 out of 10 incaps on me then you should go L2P.

AFAIK Miat were only able to prompt snipe, don’t use an addon as the excuse to blame every opinons “against” NB, thank you.

Its not even the stealth. That I can handle. They go away and appear to hurt you big. Fair enough. If they don't appear, they can get away, they do appear, the damage they do is large, but you can deal with it, that is their thing.

Its all the extra *** tacked on to cloak. Complete dot suppression, making already on you attacks disappear. (But snipes can curve sideways mid air to *** on me) crit, (ya ya no work ya ya) cloaking to force miss hard attacks even when countered.

An NB can get so much more damage/sustain from a build with better survivability than a DK/templar, the two "survival classes."

Its overtuned as ***. Literally I would take cloak without crit and dot suppression over infinite reflect wings. It allows total escape with counters being awkward to use and zergly, at which point every other class is RIP anyway. It allows the element of surprise, it allows better mitigation than wings. Cloaking soul assault/zaan, cloaking valkyn, cloaking any ST ability, cloaking in a root that is damaging you.

The entire ability needs an overhaul. Better invisibility, less invincibility. Either that or the counters need a serious ramp up for non zergers. I'm talking 30s and any range detect pots, where anything you use hits, but unless its AoE, doesn't reveal, no force miss BS. EH/Magelight being much better. Like a mini detect pot, cheaper, and longer.

Minalan · March 2018

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

WTF is this? Every single time Nightblades appear to be overtuned and dramatically ahead of the other classes, drones and drones of people swarm in to say, “Hey, NB’s are just perfect right now. They don’t need anything changed.” WTF? Why not Sorcs? Why not Templars and Wardens? Why not DK’s?

Sorcs were “perfect” when they had longer wards, and didn’t have a penalty on Bolt Escape. They were “perfect” when pets could hold aggro and taunt bosses, if the Sorc player was solo. But all that was changed, because it was viewed as “overperforming”. But Nightblades aren’t overperforming currently?

Templars were fine when they had their disorient and stun on their AoE spear, and when they had Major Mending. But no. That was viewed as “too strong”, and was striped away from them. They were fine when they could start using Radiant Destruction on targets below 50% health, but again. That was viewed as “too strong”. Yet Nightblades are fine and perfect, right?

And the F’ing DK’s. DK’s were fine when they could reflect Meteor. They were fine when their Fossilize has a larger range, and was capable of actually being front line soldiers. But again, all of that was viewed as far too much. And you cut them down patch after freaking patch. And again, Nightblades are fine. Right?

And then with the Wardens. Because people’s dodge roll monkey blades couldn’t cheese the damn birds, you go and give them a gut blow to their spammable. Because that was unfair to the vast majority of the player base (who just so happens to main NB’s). Am I right? And look at the state of magicka Wardens now. G freaking G.

But oh. Let alone mention anything about how much this game is plagued by the pestilence of Nightblades, and the waves of defenders come out of the bush like Charlie in ‘Nam. Literally ambushing the thread, and claiming how their precious class is “just perfect”. Yeah. I get it now. Just perfect at overperforming.

And you devs? You devs do nothing. You don’t do a damn thing about it. For years now you’ve done nothing about the Nightblade problem, but go and give them more and more tools to stand out and be the top class. Even streamers like @FENGRUSH has said on numerous occasions about how bs the class is, and how strong the element of stealth is in PvP. And again, it falls on deaf ears. Why? Because it’s the dev’s favorite. It’s the class that the majority of the player base mains across all platforms, and therefore you devs take the coward route. You’d rather go and give the shaft to every other class, and buff the most overperforming class (even if indirectly). Rather than do what’s right, and bring things in line with each other. And it’s stupid. It’s literally stupid.

I have said it before, and I’ll keep saying it. You devs are EXACTLY like Blizzard when it comes to Genji. The Overwatch version of a Nightblade. And because it is the “assassin character”, you all refuse to do what is right in bringing the hero in line with everyone else. Or in this case, the class. So my question is this, to the Rich Lambert’s and Matt’s and Wrobels. When are you going to give Nightblades a katana-esque ultimate, and add in some random dragon effects? When are you going to let Nightblades throw shuriken, and wall climb? When are you going to let Nightblade skills on cooldown have a reset whenever they assist in killing someone? When are you going to give the class an overall more Japanese vibe? Because pretty much, that’s all that is needed to have the 2 fall in line with each other. You already have the majority of the player base playing the class for obvious reasons. You might as well just put the icing on the cake, and be done with it.

Ey, don’t tell me all nb skills are predictable, if you can’t hit 1 out of 10 incaps on me then you should go L2P.

AFAIK Miat were only able to prompt snipe, don’t use an addon as the excuse to blame every opinons “against” NB, thank you.

This happens anytime they bring Wrobel out of his closet and let him try to balance things.

You get overpowered nightblades and stamina classes.

Somone let Rich Lambert take charge again, I think he gave Sorc our first buff in years.

a1i3nz · March 2018

Oh look another thread from the same scrub!

ShadowMonarch · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

Lord-Otto · March 2018

Necropotence Annulment Magblade.

ak_pvp · April 2018

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

thankyourat · April 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

ShadowMonarch · April 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Lord-Otto · April 2018

Always the same.
One claims Cloak is BETTER, a QUALITY, and NB players list the AMOUNT of counters, a QUANTITY.
You're missing the point.
No one says there aren't enough counters. But many claim the counters are bad and do not compensate for all the benefits Cloak brings.

Killset · April 2018

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Using detect pot does mean you sacrificing other stuff from pot, i personally think it’s a bit weak to not have it 100% uptime.

I was about to give a "different" reply, but then I saw the name. Troll is right there in the damned Name. TROLL. Like, wow - It's almost as bad as the guy literally named "I Hate Nightblades".

Speaking as someone who uses a diverse set of Classes and set ups, I can tell you if you are having enough trouble with a Nightblade in a fight that you need to fully disable one of their primary skills for the entire fight, 100% detect uptime won't actually help you net that kill.

Jhalin wrote: »

Isn't it funny how many nerf NB threads there are now that Miat's is gone

Ya know, I haven't seen this much [snip] on Consoles. NB population is unchanged, and it's still not the "50%" people keep claiming for PC.
It is odd how many NBs there are in PC PvP now that people can't Literally Cheat to avoid taking any serious harm from a well-laid ambush.
It's almost like Console players have... Skill?
...Huh, I wonder if that's because a combination of Macros and Miats removed "Skill" from the game on PC.

[Edited to remove profanity]

LOL.. I occasionally watch PC streams and YouTube vids and the fights are so bad it looks staged. I would kill to run into groups that bad on Xbox NA.

ak_pvp · April 2018

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

Cloak has to be immune to DoTs just to work if damaging a cloak player takes them out of cloak then a DoT would make the power useless. As proof the base power and Shadowly Disguise were literally unusable in PvP before they made all forms suppress DoTs.

When only Dark Claok removed DoTs it was the only morph that was used if you used the other you had to attack then and there cause the next DoT tick would pull you out.

Also saying that MageBlades need a shield if cloak is nerfed is a valid point we don’t have a class shield so cloak and CCs are our classes only build in defenses so the point stands.

Lord-Otto · April 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

Cloak has to be immune to DoTs just to work if damaging a cloak player takes them out of cloak then a DoT would make the power useless. As proof the base power and Shadowly Disguise were literally unusable in PvP before they made all forms suppress DoTs.

When only Dark Claok removed DoTs it was the only morph that was used if you used the other you had to attack then and there cause the next DoT tick would pull you out.

Also saying that MageBlades need a shield if cloak is nerfed is a valid point we don’t have a class shield so cloak and CCs are our classes only build in defenses so the point stands.

Well, DoTs could made to not pull you out of Cloak, but still damage you.

Second point I heaviliy disagree.

LEECHING is your main defense. You get healing by attacking. Strife, Siphoning Strikes, Sap, even Malevolent Offering! The design is to be good while NBs have the momentum, but crumble once they lost it. Because they are assassins. They hit first and hard. Not tanks as shield stackers.

Then you got Healing Ward. Many excellent NBs were fine with just that shield, and still are.
Annulment was re-designed with your class in mind. It was a direct buff.

And lastly, Cloak. It was never meant to be a primary defense. It was meant as a positioning tool, a secondary form of defense. JUST. LIKE. STREAK.
Streak got nerfed again and again and again. Not admitting Cloak got a special treatment here is really a double standard.

thankyourat · April 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

So Cloak clearly isn't all that op or you wouldn't need multiple damage shields to absorb hits. Cloak is good for escaping if combined with shadow image, or shuffle but it can not be your primary defense, it can't be used as a positional tool in most cases because you can't move in cloak while snared.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

Cloak has to be immune to DoTs just to work if damaging a cloak player takes them out of cloak then a DoT would make the power useless. As proof the base power and Shadowly Disguise were literally unusable in PvP before they made all forms suppress DoTs.

When only Dark Claok removed DoTs it was the only morph that was used if you used the other you had to attack then and there cause the next DoT tick would pull you out.

Also saying that MageBlades need a shield if cloak is nerfed is a valid point we don’t have a class shield so cloak and CCs are our classes only build in defenses so the point stands.

Well, DoTs could made to not pull you out of Cloak, but still damage you.

Second point I heaviliy disagree.

LEECHING is your main defense. You get healing by attacking. Strife, Siphoning Strikes, Sap, even Malevolent Offering! The design is to be good while NBs have the momentum, but crumble once they lost it. Because they are assassins. They hit first and hard. Not tanks as shield stackers.

Then you got Healing Ward. Many excellent NBs were fine with just that shield, and still are.
Annulment was re-designed with your class in mind. It was a direct buff.

And lastly, Cloak. It was never meant to be a primary defense. It was meant as a positioning tool, a secondary form of defense. JUST. LIKE. STREAK.
Streak got nerfed again and again and again. Not admitting Cloak got a special treatment here is really a double standard.

There was a time when you could run just healing ward, that is when cloak purged dots. If Cloak purged dots and snares again then magblades can go back to just running healing ward. Cloak and streak have different functions. You can Cloak and only move a few inches if snared so why would they add a stacking cost to an ability that will not move you out of aoe range if you are snared. I've had classes that constantly stampede me and use their class aoe to keep me from cloaking. If players didn't have such huge burst damage a light armor hot based magblade would be wonderful, but to get it to work right now you need about 28k health and heavy armor. Annulment was a buff to magblade before that magblades were considered weak for 1v1 they were basically all bombers. But after annulment was buffed magblades emerged as a top 1v1 class, And alot actually dropped Cloak completely. Cloak can not function as a primary defense. Being untargetable does not mean you are mitigating damage it just means no one is fighting. Cloak is more of a way to turn a fight around that you are losing to get momentum back than a defensive or position tool.

Lord-Otto · April 2018

People were DEFINITELY using Healing only after the Cloak purge change. I think Kena still does?

Streak won't create a gap, as you get gapclosed. It also creates a mini-root and self-stun at beginning and end of animation, where you will eat damage. No point in a stacking cost if the gap opener actually doesn't give you breathing room, on the contrary, even.

ak_pvp · April 2018

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

So Cloak clearly isn't all that op or you wouldn't need multiple damage shields to absorb hits. Cloak is good for escaping if combined with shadow image, or shuffle but it can not be your primary defense, it can't be used as a positional tool in most cases because you can't move in cloak while snared.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

Cloak has to be immune to DoTs just to work if damaging a cloak player takes them out of cloak then a DoT would make the power useless. As proof the base power and Shadowly Disguise were literally unusable in PvP before they made all forms suppress DoTs.

When only Dark Claok removed DoTs it was the only morph that was used if you used the other you had to attack then and there cause the next DoT tick would pull you out.

Also saying that MageBlades need a shield if cloak is nerfed is a valid point we don’t have a class shield so cloak and CCs are our classes only build in defenses so the point stands.

Well, DoTs could made to not pull you out of Cloak, but still damage you.

Second point I heaviliy disagree.

LEECHING is your main defense. You get healing by attacking. Strife, Siphoning Strikes, Sap, even Malevolent Offering! The design is to be good while NBs have the momentum, but crumble once they lost it. Because they are assassins. They hit first and hard. Not tanks as shield stackers.

Then you got Healing Ward. Many excellent NBs were fine with just that shield, and still are.
Annulment was re-designed with your class in mind. It was a direct buff.

And lastly, Cloak. It was never meant to be a primary defense. It was meant as a positioning tool, a secondary form of defense. JUST. LIKE. STREAK.
Streak got nerfed again and again and again. Not admitting Cloak got a special treatment here is really a double standard.

There was a time when you could run just healing ward, that is when cloak purged dots. If Cloak purged dots and snares again then magblades can go back to just running healing ward. Cloak and streak have different functions. You can Cloak and only move a few inches if snared so why would they add a stacking cost to an ability that will not move you out of aoe range if you are snared. I've had classes that constantly stampede me and use their class aoe to keep me from cloaking. If players didn't have such huge burst damage a light armor hot based magblade would be wonderful, but to get it to work right now you need about 28k health and heavy armor. Annulment was a buff to magblade before that magblades were considered weak for 1v1 they were basically all bombers. But after annulment was buffed magblades emerged as a top 1v1 class, And alot actually dropped Cloak completely. Cloak can not function as a primary defense. Being untargetable does not mean you are mitigating damage it just means no one is fighting. Cloak is more of a way to turn a fight around that you are losing to get momentum back than a defensive or position tool.

You don't need multiple. You really just need one, healing ward. No class in this game can rely on one single defense. Even DKs who only block rely on mist for mobility, and heavy armour for mitigation. The closest is still cloak though. It is THE best mitigating defense, and even works as a mild get away, because you can't easily be CC'd if you can't be seen.

If wings got nerfed, streak or block got nerfed. Cloak should too.