Should detect pot be 100% uptime?

thankyourat

ak_pvp wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

So Cloak clearly isn't all that op or you wouldn't need multiple damage shields to absorb hits. Cloak is good for escaping if combined with shadow image, or shuffle but it can not be your primary defense, it can't be used as a positional tool in most cases because you can't move in cloak while snared.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

Cloak has to be immune to DoTs just to work if damaging a cloak player takes them out of cloak then a DoT would make the power useless. As proof the base power and Shadowly Disguise were literally unusable in PvP before they made all forms suppress DoTs.

When only Dark Claok removed DoTs it was the only morph that was used if you used the other you had to attack then and there cause the next DoT tick would pull you out.

Also saying that MageBlades need a shield if cloak is nerfed is a valid point we don’t have a class shield so cloak and CCs are our classes only build in defenses so the point stands.

Well, DoTs could made to not pull you out of Cloak, but still damage you.

Second point I heaviliy disagree.

LEECHING is your main defense. You get healing by attacking. Strife, Siphoning Strikes, Sap, even Malevolent Offering! The design is to be good while NBs have the momentum, but crumble once they lost it. Because they are assassins. They hit first and hard. Not tanks as shield stackers.

Then you got Healing Ward. Many excellent NBs were fine with just that shield, and still are.
Annulment was re-designed with your class in mind. It was a direct buff.

And lastly, Cloak. It was never meant to be a primary defense. It was meant as a positioning tool, a secondary form of defense. JUST. LIKE. STREAK.
Streak got nerfed again and again and again. Not admitting Cloak got a special treatment here is really a double standard.

There was a time when you could run just healing ward, that is when cloak purged dots. If Cloak purged dots and snares again then magblades can go back to just running healing ward. Cloak and streak have different functions. You can Cloak and only move a few inches if snared so why would they add a stacking cost to an ability that will not move you out of aoe range if you are snared. I've had classes that constantly stampede me and use their class aoe to keep me from cloaking. If players didn't have such huge burst damage a light armor hot based magblade would be wonderful, but to get it to work right now you need about 28k health and heavy armor. Annulment was a buff to magblade before that magblades were considered weak for 1v1 they were basically all bombers. But after annulment was buffed magblades emerged as a top 1v1 class, And alot actually dropped Cloak completely. Cloak can not function as a primary defense. Being untargetable does not mean you are mitigating damage it just means no one is fighting. Cloak is more of a way to turn a fight around that you are losing to get momentum back than a defensive or position tool.

You don't need multiple. You really just need one, healing ward. No class in this game can rely on one single defense. Even DKs who only block rely on mist for mobility, and heavy armour for mitigation. The closest is still cloak though. It is THE best mitigating defense, and even works as a mild get away, because you can't easily be CC'd if you can't be seen.

If wings got nerfed, streak or block got nerfed. Cloak should too.

Cloak was already nerfed and it was a pretty big Nerf as well. It basically forced all magblades to change their playstyle completely. You can run just healing ward I've done it, but be prepared to run away from anyone who is a competent player. I guess as a magblade you do have that option.

Minalan

DDuke wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Ok, you don't like nightblades escaping from zergs, but then don't tell me, that's not your issue with cloak ...

ESCAPE is cool. But turning around at will to instaburst people is not. Because this leads to NBs just trolling groups with Cloak until Incap is ready.
You should escape, but you should be out of combat for a bit. The more regen you have built for, the faster you can re-engage.
I have to play by those rules, and so should NBs.

And don't forget I want excessive Cloak spam in "normal" fights to reset it to invoke a penalty.

Ok then, how do you propose a bow build would function then? I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die, because cloak has some ridiculous stacking cost modifier?

I understand you must be thinking: "sorcs got stacking cost modifier on streak, so NBs should have one on Cloak too", but don't forget that sorcs also have 15k/cast dmg shields while bow build NBs have... 1k/second Vigor and dodge roll that runs you out of stamina in no time unless you play a *** meta rollerblade.

It's the same for DW/Bow & DW/DW builds as well btw, you need multiple cloaks to recover from burst when your only heal is Vigor.


You should really consider the non-meta builds as well when making your suggestions; this game needs more build diversity, not less.

I see a lot of magblades complaining about shields.

I’d like to point out that you all have harness, and you can easily stack more Magicka than any Sorc with your nightblade passives. You end up with a shield that’s almost as strong as hardened Ward. You just can’t double stack, which you don’t really need with cloak.

WillhelmBlack

No.

The reveal should be permanent tho for the duration and not ticks.

Xsorus

I said it before, make sentry armor suck less ass and make flare a faster projectile (*** make the dot one a trap you can cast)

ofSunhold

Minalan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Ok, you don't like nightblades escaping from zergs, but then don't tell me, that's not your issue with cloak ...

ESCAPE is cool. But turning around at will to instaburst people is not. Because this leads to NBs just trolling groups with Cloak until Incap is ready.
You should escape, but you should be out of combat for a bit. The more regen you have built for, the faster you can re-engage.
I have to play by those rules, and so should NBs.

And don't forget I want excessive Cloak spam in "normal" fights to reset it to invoke a penalty.

Ok then, how do you propose a bow build would function then? I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die, because cloak has some ridiculous stacking cost modifier?

I understand you must be thinking: "sorcs got stacking cost modifier on streak, so NBs should have one on Cloak too", but don't forget that sorcs also have 15k/cast dmg shields while bow build NBs have... 1k/second Vigor and dodge roll that runs you out of stamina in no time unless you play a *** meta rollerblade.

It's the same for DW/Bow & DW/DW builds as well btw, you need multiple cloaks to recover from burst when your only heal is Vigor.


You should really consider the non-meta builds as well when making your suggestions; this game needs more build diversity, not less.

I see a lot of magblades complaining about shields.

I’d like to point out that you all have harness, and you can easily stack more Magicka than any Sorc with your nightblade passives. You end up with a shield that’s almost as strong as hardened Ward. You just can’t double stack, which you don’t really need with cloak.

Really? I'm not doubting your theory, just surprised. I'm pretty excited when I see anybody but a sorc cast harness instead of dampen, it's that bad in Cyrodiil. Even dampen never really rivals a magsorc's ward. (And I'm not suggesting that it should.)

Lord-Otto

ofSunhold wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Ok, you don't like nightblades escaping from zergs, but then don't tell me, that's not your issue with cloak ...

ESCAPE is cool. But turning around at will to instaburst people is not. Because this leads to NBs just trolling groups with Cloak until Incap is ready.
You should escape, but you should be out of combat for a bit. The more regen you have built for, the faster you can re-engage.
I have to play by those rules, and so should NBs.

And don't forget I want excessive Cloak spam in "normal" fights to reset it to invoke a penalty.

Ok then, how do you propose a bow build would function then? I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die, because cloak has some ridiculous stacking cost modifier?

I understand you must be thinking: "sorcs got stacking cost modifier on streak, so NBs should have one on Cloak too", but don't forget that sorcs also have 15k/cast dmg shields while bow build NBs have... 1k/second Vigor and dodge roll that runs you out of stamina in no time unless you play a *** meta rollerblade.

It's the same for DW/Bow & DW/DW builds as well btw, you need multiple cloaks to recover from burst when your only heal is Vigor.


You should really consider the non-meta builds as well when making your suggestions; this game needs more build diversity, not less.

I see a lot of magblades complaining about shields.

I’d like to point out that you all have harness, and you can easily stack more Magicka than any Sorc with your nightblade passives. You end up with a shield that’s almost as strong as hardened Ward. You just can’t double stack, which you don’t really need with cloak.

Really? I'm not doubting your theory, just surprised. I'm pretty excited when I see anybody but a sorc cast harness instead of dampen, it's that bad in Cyrodiil. Even dampen never really rivals a magsorc's ward. (And I'm not suggesting that it should.)

Magblades basically get a free 8% max magicka that sorcs don't. It pushes Dampen's 1.30x modifier over Hardened's 1.33x, albeit at higher cost (which Nightblades can afford, thanks to higher sustain).
Harness typically sees more use in Cyro, as it is super OP against mag builds. I personally prefer Dampen on my magblade, though. I think sustain is already good enough with Siphoning.

ofSunhold

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Ok, you don't like nightblades escaping from zergs, but then don't tell me, that's not your issue with cloak ...

ESCAPE is cool. But turning around at will to instaburst people is not. Because this leads to NBs just trolling groups with Cloak until Incap is ready.
You should escape, but you should be out of combat for a bit. The more regen you have built for, the faster you can re-engage.
I have to play by those rules, and so should NBs.

And don't forget I want excessive Cloak spam in "normal" fights to reset it to invoke a penalty.

Ok then, how do you propose a bow build would function then? I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die, because cloak has some ridiculous stacking cost modifier?

I understand you must be thinking: "sorcs got stacking cost modifier on streak, so NBs should have one on Cloak too", but don't forget that sorcs also have 15k/cast dmg shields while bow build NBs have... 1k/second Vigor and dodge roll that runs you out of stamina in no time unless you play a *** meta rollerblade.

It's the same for DW/Bow & DW/DW builds as well btw, you need multiple cloaks to recover from burst when your only heal is Vigor.


You should really consider the non-meta builds as well when making your suggestions; this game needs more build diversity, not less.

I see a lot of magblades complaining about shields.

I’d like to point out that you all have harness, and you can easily stack more Magicka than any Sorc with your nightblade passives. You end up with a shield that’s almost as strong as hardened Ward. You just can’t double stack, which you don’t really need with cloak.

Really? I'm not doubting your theory, just surprised. I'm pretty excited when I see anybody but a sorc cast harness instead of dampen, it's that bad in Cyrodiil. Even dampen never really rivals a magsorc's ward. (And I'm not suggesting that it should.)

Magblades basically get a free 8% max magicka that sorcs don't. It pushes Dampen's 1.30x modifier over Hardened's 1.33x, albeit at higher cost (which Nightblades can afford, thanks to higher sustain).
Harness typically sees more use in Cyro, as it is super OP against mag builds. I personally prefer Dampen on my magblade, though. I think sustain is already good enough with Siphoning.

I see, thanks for explaining that. I have a sorc, but no nightblade, so no personal experience with their tools. Magblades do seem to be at the extreme end of squishy in this meta. Maybe it's just that there are fewer magicka specs than stamina on the field, and some of those are choosing heavy armor over light.

GreenSoup2HoT

Goshua wrote: »

No but personally radiant magelight's duration needs to be more reasonable

Just gimme back the old toggle magelight. I wouldnt complain about double baring it.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

Cloak has to be immune to DoTs just to work if damaging a cloak player takes them out of cloak then a DoT would make the power useless. As proof the base power and Shadowly Disguise were literally unusable in PvP before they made all forms suppress DoTs.

When only Dark Claok removed DoTs it was the only morph that was used if you used the other you had to attack then and there cause the next DoT tick would pull you out.

Also saying that MageBlades need a shield if cloak is nerfed is a valid point we don’t have a class shield so cloak and CCs are our classes only build in defenses so the point stands.

Well, DoTs could made to not pull you out of Cloak, but still damage you.

Second point I heaviliy disagree.

LEECHING is your main defense. You get healing by attacking. Strife, Siphoning Strikes, Sap, even Malevolent Offering! The design is to be good while NBs have the momentum, but crumble once they lost it. Because they are assassins. They hit first and hard. Not tanks as shield stackers.

Then you got Healing Ward. Many excellent NBs were fine with just that shield, and still are.
Annulment was re-designed with your class in mind. It was a direct buff.

And lastly, Cloak. It was never meant to be a primary defense. It was meant as a positioning tool, a secondary form of defense. JUST. LIKE. STREAK.
Streak got nerfed again and again and again. Not admitting Cloak got a special treatment here is really a double standard.

Siphoning is not a defense at all the Ult is magic damage so off bat not many stamina build unlock it anymore. All the heals but one are magic based so again unless on stamina. Now let’s talk about the so called defenses.

Strife: Cost and hard hitting for the cost so that’s good Heal is linked to damage so getting blocked, missing or a shield cuts that heal. It’s a HoT not much help vs burst.

Siphoning Strikes: Pure trash now it’s not a heal it was a resource recovery skill that heal is not saving you unless you have a great shield or high resistance in which case you don’t need the heal as you have better HoTs ones that are not linked to damage and can be started before the fight (Mutagen & Rally)

Sap Essence: Only strong when outnumbered with the Siphoning Strikes heavy nerf you will run out of magic and die.

Malevolent: is a HoT that needs to kill you before it works you can’t even cast the power mid fight is it will push you into execute range and you literally helped them kill you.

All of the draw backs are very clear to any MageBlade why you don’t use Siphoning as a main defense. Plus if you are going to use Healinh Ward why not slot Mutagen if you are going to use a stamina build would you take any of those strings attached heals over Rally and Vigor? No, no you would not.

They have not nerfed Cloak like Streak cause you really can’t it’s 2.9 seconds long not even a full 3 seconds. It’s the single most counted power in the game by far. You don’t move you’re in the same place so a cone attack or AoE nearby does the trick easily you can’t roll without breaking cloak, you can’t run in a cloak. They have three anti stealth powers that anyone can run Mage Light, Evil Hunter and Reveal. Streak was being used in place of horses to jet across the map and it STUNS as a part of the power not like cloak where you have to cast to secondary attack to stun. This power is strong with hard counter and strong limits how do you nerf it without making it impossible to use.

And if you CC then streak you can get out of gap closer range hell just dart around a corner, rock or tree and it two cast you are out of range. If non Nightblade stamina builds can CC and break out running and get away Streakers can too.

ak_pvp

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

So Cloak clearly isn't all that op or you wouldn't need multiple damage shields to absorb hits. Cloak is good for escaping if combined with shadow image, or shuffle but it can not be your primary defense, it can't be used as a positional tool in most cases because you can't move in cloak while snared.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

Cloak has to be immune to DoTs just to work if damaging a cloak player takes them out of cloak then a DoT would make the power useless. As proof the base power and Shadowly Disguise were literally unusable in PvP before they made all forms suppress DoTs.

When only Dark Claok removed DoTs it was the only morph that was used if you used the other you had to attack then and there cause the next DoT tick would pull you out.

Also saying that MageBlades need a shield if cloak is nerfed is a valid point we don’t have a class shield so cloak and CCs are our classes only build in defenses so the point stands.

Well, DoTs could made to not pull you out of Cloak, but still damage you.

Second point I heaviliy disagree.

LEECHING is your main defense. You get healing by attacking. Strife, Siphoning Strikes, Sap, even Malevolent Offering! The design is to be good while NBs have the momentum, but crumble once they lost it. Because they are assassins. They hit first and hard. Not tanks as shield stackers.

Then you got Healing Ward. Many excellent NBs were fine with just that shield, and still are.
Annulment was re-designed with your class in mind. It was a direct buff.

And lastly, Cloak. It was never meant to be a primary defense. It was meant as a positioning tool, a secondary form of defense. JUST. LIKE. STREAK.
Streak got nerfed again and again and again. Not admitting Cloak got a special treatment here is really a double standard.

There was a time when you could run just healing ward, that is when cloak purged dots. If Cloak purged dots and snares again then magblades can go back to just running healing ward. Cloak and streak have different functions. You can Cloak and only move a few inches if snared so why would they add a stacking cost to an ability that will not move you out of aoe range if you are snared. I've had classes that constantly stampede me and use their class aoe to keep me from cloaking. If players didn't have such huge burst damage a light armor hot based magblade would be wonderful, but to get it to work right now you need about 28k health and heavy armor. Annulment was a buff to magblade before that magblades were considered weak for 1v1 they were basically all bombers. But after annulment was buffed magblades emerged as a top 1v1 class, And alot actually dropped Cloak completely. Cloak can not function as a primary defense. Being untargetable does not mean you are mitigating damage it just means no one is fighting. Cloak is more of a way to turn a fight around that you are losing to get momentum back than a defensive or position tool.

You don't need multiple. You really just need one, healing ward. No class in this game can rely on one single defense. Even DKs who only block rely on mist for mobility, and heavy armour for mitigation. The closest is still cloak though. It is THE best mitigating defense, and even works as a mild get away, because you can't easily be CC'd if you can't be seen.

If wings got nerfed, streak or block got nerfed. Cloak should too.

Cloak was already nerfed and it was a pretty big Nerf as well. It basically forced all magblades to change their playstyle completely. You can run just healing ward I've done it, but be prepared to run away from anyone who is a competent player. I guess as a magblade you do have that option.

Not really. Unless you mean the changes from purge. Which was a long time ago. When it broke on nearly everything. Both of these were just lazy fixes to make cloak not break by ZOS and were not part of original cloak.

It's still the best defense and outclasses every other by a country mile. Nb is so popular because of cloak being so easy and forgiving, I can get equivalent burst on my MDK/warden but you don't see half the game playing them. As such it should be balanced. Not even just nerfed. Things like Mark/pots need balancing, the crit morph needs to work a bit better.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

ak_pvp wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

So Cloak clearly isn't all that op or you wouldn't need multiple damage shields to absorb hits. Cloak is good for escaping if combined with shadow image, or shuffle but it can not be your primary defense, it can't be used as a positional tool in most cases because you can't move in cloak while snared.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

Cloak has to be immune to DoTs just to work if damaging a cloak player takes them out of cloak then a DoT would make the power useless. As proof the base power and Shadowly Disguise were literally unusable in PvP before they made all forms suppress DoTs.

When only Dark Claok removed DoTs it was the only morph that was used if you used the other you had to attack then and there cause the next DoT tick would pull you out.

Also saying that MageBlades need a shield if cloak is nerfed is a valid point we don’t have a class shield so cloak and CCs are our classes only build in defenses so the point stands.

Well, DoTs could made to not pull you out of Cloak, but still damage you.

Second point I heaviliy disagree.

LEECHING is your main defense. You get healing by attacking. Strife, Siphoning Strikes, Sap, even Malevolent Offering! The design is to be good while NBs have the momentum, but crumble once they lost it. Because they are assassins. They hit first and hard. Not tanks as shield stackers.

Then you got Healing Ward. Many excellent NBs were fine with just that shield, and still are.
Annulment was re-designed with your class in mind. It was a direct buff.

And lastly, Cloak. It was never meant to be a primary defense. It was meant as a positioning tool, a secondary form of defense. JUST. LIKE. STREAK.
Streak got nerfed again and again and again. Not admitting Cloak got a special treatment here is really a double standard.

There was a time when you could run just healing ward, that is when cloak purged dots. If Cloak purged dots and snares again then magblades can go back to just running healing ward. Cloak and streak have different functions. You can Cloak and only move a few inches if snared so why would they add a stacking cost to an ability that will not move you out of aoe range if you are snared. I've had classes that constantly stampede me and use their class aoe to keep me from cloaking. If players didn't have such huge burst damage a light armor hot based magblade would be wonderful, but to get it to work right now you need about 28k health and heavy armor. Annulment was a buff to magblade before that magblades were considered weak for 1v1 they were basically all bombers. But after annulment was buffed magblades emerged as a top 1v1 class, And alot actually dropped Cloak completely. Cloak can not function as a primary defense. Being untargetable does not mean you are mitigating damage it just means no one is fighting. Cloak is more of a way to turn a fight around that you are losing to get momentum back than a defensive or position tool.

You don't need multiple. You really just need one, healing ward. No class in this game can rely on one single defense. Even DKs who only block rely on mist for mobility, and heavy armour for mitigation. The closest is still cloak though. It is THE best mitigating defense, and even works as a mild get away, because you can't easily be CC'd if you can't be seen.

If wings got nerfed, streak or block got nerfed. Cloak should too.

Cloak was already nerfed and it was a pretty big Nerf as well. It basically forced all magblades to change their playstyle completely. You can run just healing ward I've done it, but be prepared to run away from anyone who is a competent player. I guess as a magblade you do have that option.

Not really. Unless you mean the changes from purge. Which was a long time ago. When it broke on nearly everything. Both of these were just lazy fixes to make cloak not break by ZOS and were not part of original cloak.

It's still the best defense and outclasses every other by a country mile. Nb is so popular because of cloak being so easy and forgiving, I can get equivalent burst on my MDK/warden but you don't see half the game playing them. As such it should be balanced. Not even just nerfed. Things like Mark/pots need balancing, the crit morph needs to work a bit better.

All this out of no where Nightblade hate is cause your add-on no longer warns you when stealth player are nearby and when you are being attacked from stealth this is really not the case on Consoles have a few friends on both xBox and PS4 all said the same thing NB are just about even with the other classes. I seen a comment like this on I believe on this post and had to make sure and sure enough it's a NA PC thing.

So Nightblades have to be stronger on PC or never having a Add-On kill a whole play style people just played what classes they like.

Lord-Otto

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

ofSunhold

Lord-Otto wrote: »

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

Well, no. It wasn't cool.

That's why I don't want it to happen to other classes too. Unique class abilities add so much depth to PVP, it's just sad and boring when broken and nerfed abilities force us to be more and more the same. Everyone and his dog isn't running DBOS because it's just so amazing, but because for so many classes it's better than their own ultimates. That sucks. I'm using dampen on my magplar not because it's a great shield, but because my class shield is godawful.

Let nightblades be nightblades, and that includes pissing people off by winking in and out of visibility. There's enough counterplay, they're hardly godlike and alone in their great might in Cyrodiil.

Minalan

ofSunhold wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

Well, no. It wasn't cool.

That's why I don't want it to happen to other classes too. Unique class abilities add so much depth to PVP, it's just sad and boring when broken and nerfed abilities force us to be more and more the same. Everyone and his dog isn't running DBOS because it's just so amazing, but because for so many classes it's better than their own ultimates. That sucks. I'm using dampen on my magplar not because it's a great shield, but because my class shield is godawful.

Let nightblades be nightblades, and that includes pissing people off by winking in and out of visibility. There's enough counterplay, they're hardly godlike and alone in their great might in Cyrodiil.

Since the torch waving mobs here basically destroyed Sorc as a usable class, and the devs have NEVER EVER reverted a nerf, and buffed Sorcs ONCE in about two years - not counting the 50+ stupid pet adjustments...

There’s NO other way to fix your class except with the nerf bat. I’m sorry. It’s coming. And it going to hurt.

- Huge Cost increases or utility/damage loss on nightblade ultimates, it’s way too much.
- Some of your passives revisited, passive regen made like everyone else (bad). You’ll have to build for sustain like the rest of us. And lose damage.
- Damage reductions across the board, nightblades are out of line by a long shot.
- Stacking cost increase on cloak. Like dodge roll and streak.

That would be the beginning of seeing you guys balanced in Cyrodiil.

I’d like to see a few buffs instead, but ZOS doesn’t do that, and I’d like to play the damn damage again without the ridiculous single class supremacy.

ofSunhold

Minalan wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

Well, no. It wasn't cool.

That's why I don't want it to happen to other classes too. Unique class abilities add so much depth to PVP, it's just sad and boring when broken and nerfed abilities force us to be more and more the same. Everyone and his dog isn't running DBOS because it's just so amazing, but because for so many classes it's better than their own ultimates. That sucks. I'm using dampen on my magplar not because it's a great shield, but because my class shield is godawful.

Let nightblades be nightblades, and that includes pissing people off by winking in and out of visibility. There's enough counterplay, they're hardly godlike and alone in their great might in Cyrodiil.

Since the torch waving mobs here basically destroyed Sorc as a usable class, and the devs have NEVER EVER reverted a nerf, and buffed Sorcs ONCE in about two years - not counting the 50+ stupid pet adjustments...

There’s NO other way to fix your class except with the nerf bat. I’m sorry. It’s coming. And it going to hurt.

- Huge Cost increases or utility/damage loss on nightblade ultimates, it’s way too much.
- Some of your passives revisited, passive regen made like everyone else (bad). You’ll have to build for sustain like the rest of us. And lose damage.
- Damage reductions across the board, nightblades are out of line by a long shot.
- Stacking cost increase on cloak. Like dodge roll and streak.

That would be the beginning of seeing you guys balanced in Cyrodiil.

I’d like to see a few buffs instead, but ZOS doesn’t do that, and I’d like to play the damn damage again without the ridiculous single class supremacy.

I main a templar. I also play magsorc, and your memory is not so great about how many buffs we've received since way way back when that class was trash.

I don't play nightblade. I also don't want nightblades nerfed.

thankyourat

Lord-Otto wrote: »

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

For magblade to run a shield as big as sorcs they need to run over 50k Magicka and are forced to run dampen instead of harness. at this point dampen will only equal hardened on a normal sorc build. While also losing out on the sustain by running harness. I would also argue that sorc sustain is just as good as magblades and even better than magblade when facing Magicka opponents. Sorc is still the strongest 1vX mag class. sure as a magblade you will probably die less but you will also not close out as many 1vXes. Sorc passives are also great for sustain because 5% reduce ability cost and 10% additional recovery, with dark conversion being overall a wonderful ability. Honestly I think most people would consider sorcs stronger for most PvP content besides 1v1. PVE is a different story. You are basically arguing over the two most well built classes. Templar and DK can have an argument but sorc is really good. It just struggles in duels because of the damage resistance meta and not having defile

ak_pvp

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

So Cloak clearly isn't all that op or you wouldn't need multiple damage shields to absorb hits. Cloak is good for escaping if combined with shadow image, or shuffle but it can not be your primary defense, it can't be used as a positional tool in most cases because you can't move in cloak while snared.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

Because every class in the game has at least 1 dot they use one way or another and putting that on a player should instantly void their only defense? Moronic.

How is cloak better? It has more counters then any other form of defense. Shields there is shield breaker, for heals their is defile. For cloak there is Mark Target, Flare, Camo Hunter, Detect pots, Magelight, ANY AOE literally a multitude of things that can break cloak.

You simply have never taken the time to actually learn the counter play.

Don't cry nerf just cause your a poor player.

Only defense... Use shields, clutch less on OP mode scrub. Cloak already stops ST attacks, makes you untargettable and detectable. That is just the base morph. It should never affect dots. It's invisibility not invincibility.

If your cloak is broken by mage light or AoE and you aren't out numbered holy *** l2p. You have the advantage of invisibility. Spamming AoEs is so much more costly and less likely to work. The counter play is in your favor so much. Mark target is the only non sacrificial one, and guess what. Its NB only. Detect pots require potion loss and can still be force missed.

Compare cloak, with much better mitigation of dots, ST, better escape, and better cost/enemies. To block. Which stops regen, mititgates less, is fully countered by dots, on targets, many AoEs and then CCs too.Compare cloak to purge, where whatever you do get rid off comes back near instantly, Compare cloak to wings. Just see how strong it is.

thankyourat wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I get gap closer spammed, I cloak, Shuffle to get rid of snare & get some distance... and now what, I'm not allowed to cloak again to burst someone?

I'm just supposed to take a gap closer to the face & repeat everything until I run out of stamina/health and die

@DDuke

That's the reality every non-NB faces, or do you think you can successfully disengage from a zerg with Shield, Streak, and then turn around to burst? I agree builds that don't build for roll dodge are dependant on cloak as a tool to not insta-die. But if Cloak stays as is, what then is your proposal (mine would be to decrease the cost of Magelight and Camo Hunter to incentivize active counterplay)? Hard counters are always bad design.

So what are magblades supposed to do huh?

Cloak is all a magblade gets for defense. No stacking gigantic sheilds, no spamming dodge roll or holding block. They get cloak.

There are a multitude of ways to counter cloak that good players use constantly.

Slot Magelight, Slot flare, slot any AOE, Slot lightning form if your a sorc it will pull nb's out of stealth, Slot piercing mark if your a NB it is a death sentance to most nb's, Drink a detect pot. Every class that has a AOE can pull nightblades out of stealth very easily.

Don't try to nerf something just because you do not yet understand the counter play to it. Nightblades are my most killed class cause once you learn how to pull them out of stealth 90% of them die without putting up a fight, without cloak a lot of them really are completely defenseless. 90% of the time in cyro when I see a Nightblade I get excited because I know thats a EZ kill without a doubt.

If stamblade is over preforming try changing it in a way that doesn't effect the under preforming magblade.

Don't even get me started on people crying about snipe spammers. If your having trouble with snipe spammers you just need to work on your positioning and build more crit resist.

...

Cloak is better than all the defenses listed. Magblades use shields, and any class can (and do) use block. The counters are stupid to use. They are too costly/sacrificial or just plain ***. If you are solo, you may as well not bother, if you are a zerg, then the counters are OP. The counters should be better, but less hard (player only, ST attacks don't reveal). Cloak shouldn't include dots either. That is a stupid change.

That's not true play a magblade with just Cloak and no shield and watch how squishy you will be. You are literally one dbos away from death

Use a shield then. "Play an NB without a weapon, see, NB offense is weak"

Cloak has to be immune to DoTs just to work if damaging a cloak player takes them out of cloak then a DoT would make the power useless. As proof the base power and Shadowly Disguise were literally unusable in PvP before they made all forms suppress DoTs.

When only Dark Claok removed DoTs it was the only morph that was used if you used the other you had to attack then and there cause the next DoT tick would pull you out.

Also saying that MageBlades need a shield if cloak is nerfed is a valid point we don’t have a class shield so cloak and CCs are our classes only build in defenses so the point stands.

Well, DoTs could made to not pull you out of Cloak, but still damage you.

Second point I heaviliy disagree.

LEECHING is your main defense. You get healing by attacking. Strife, Siphoning Strikes, Sap, even Malevolent Offering! The design is to be good while NBs have the momentum, but crumble once they lost it. Because they are assassins. They hit first and hard. Not tanks as shield stackers.

Then you got Healing Ward. Many excellent NBs were fine with just that shield, and still are.
Annulment was re-designed with your class in mind. It was a direct buff.

And lastly, Cloak. It was never meant to be a primary defense. It was meant as a positioning tool, a secondary form of defense. JUST. LIKE. STREAK.
Streak got nerfed again and again and again. Not admitting Cloak got a special treatment here is really a double standard.

There was a time when you could run just healing ward, that is when cloak purged dots. If Cloak purged dots and snares again then magblades can go back to just running healing ward. Cloak and streak have different functions. You can Cloak and only move a few inches if snared so why would they add a stacking cost to an ability that will not move you out of aoe range if you are snared. I've had classes that constantly stampede me and use their class aoe to keep me from cloaking. If players didn't have such huge burst damage a light armor hot based magblade would be wonderful, but to get it to work right now you need about 28k health and heavy armor. Annulment was a buff to magblade before that magblades were considered weak for 1v1 they were basically all bombers. But after annulment was buffed magblades emerged as a top 1v1 class, And alot actually dropped Cloak completely. Cloak can not function as a primary defense. Being untargetable does not mean you are mitigating damage it just means no one is fighting. Cloak is more of a way to turn a fight around that you are losing to get momentum back than a defensive or position tool.

You don't need multiple. You really just need one, healing ward. No class in this game can rely on one single defense. Even DKs who only block rely on mist for mobility, and heavy armour for mitigation. The closest is still cloak though. It is THE best mitigating defense, and even works as a mild get away, because you can't easily be CC'd if you can't be seen.

If wings got nerfed, streak or block got nerfed. Cloak should too.

Cloak was already nerfed and it was a pretty big Nerf as well. It basically forced all magblades to change their playstyle completely. You can run just healing ward I've done it, but be prepared to run away from anyone who is a competent player. I guess as a magblade you do have that option.

Not really. Unless you mean the changes from purge. Which was a long time ago. When it broke on nearly everything. Both of these were just lazy fixes to make cloak not break by ZOS and were not part of original cloak.

It's still the best defense and outclasses every other by a country mile. Nb is so popular because of cloak being so easy and forgiving, I can get equivalent burst on my MDK/warden but you don't see half the game playing them. As such it should be balanced. Not even just nerfed. Things like Mark/pots need balancing, the crit morph needs to work a bit better.

All this out of no where Nightblade hate is cause your add-on no longer warns you when stealth player are nearby and when you are being attacked from stealth this is really not the case on Consoles have a few friends on both xBox and PS4 all said the same thing NB are just about even with the other classes. I seen a comment like this on I believe on this post and had to make sure and sure enough it's a NA PC thing.

So Nightblades have to be stronger on PC or never having a Add-On kill a whole play style people just played what classes they like.

I never used miats. Next?

DDuke

Minalan wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

Well, no. It wasn't cool.

That's why I don't want it to happen to other classes too. Unique class abilities add so much depth to PVP, it's just sad and boring when broken and nerfed abilities force us to be more and more the same. Everyone and his dog isn't running DBOS because it's just so amazing, but because for so many classes it's better than their own ultimates. That sucks. I'm using dampen on my magplar not because it's a great shield, but because my class shield is godawful.

Let nightblades be nightblades, and that includes pissing people off by winking in and out of visibility. There's enough counterplay, they're hardly godlike and alone in their great might in Cyrodiil.

Since the torch waving mobs here basically destroyed Sorc as a usable class, and the devs have NEVER EVER reverted a nerf, and buffed Sorcs ONCE in about two years - not counting the 50+ stupid pet adjustments...

There’s NO other way to fix your class except with the nerf bat. I’m sorry. It’s coming. And it going to hurt.

- Huge Cost increases or utility/damage loss on nightblade ultimates, it’s way too much.
- Some of your passives revisited, passive regen made like everyone else (bad). You’ll have to build for sustain like the rest of us. And lose damage.
- Damage reductions across the board, nightblades are out of line by a long shot.
- Stacking cost increase on cloak. Like dodge roll and streak.

That would be the beginning of seeing you guys balanced in Cyrodiil.

I’d like to see a few buffs instead, but ZOS doesn’t do that, and I’d like to play the damn damage again without the ridiculous single class supremacy.

Wait... what? Sorcs aren't a usable class? Over the past few days I've watched multiple streams/youtube videos of sorcs destroying people in 1vX, and I honestly think they're by far the most popular class in the game after rollerblades.

Yes, this is a #nerfsorc thread now, but you asked for it with comments like that.

ak_pvp

DDuke wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

Well, no. It wasn't cool.

That's why I don't want it to happen to other classes too. Unique class abilities add so much depth to PVP, it's just sad and boring when broken and nerfed abilities force us to be more and more the same. Everyone and his dog isn't running DBOS because it's just so amazing, but because for so many classes it's better than their own ultimates. That sucks. I'm using dampen on my magplar not because it's a great shield, but because my class shield is godawful.

Let nightblades be nightblades, and that includes pissing people off by winking in and out of visibility. There's enough counterplay, they're hardly godlike and alone in their great might in Cyrodiil.

Since the torch waving mobs here basically destroyed Sorc as a usable class, and the devs have NEVER EVER reverted a nerf, and buffed Sorcs ONCE in about two years - not counting the 50+ stupid pet adjustments...

There’s NO other way to fix your class except with the nerf bat. I’m sorry. It’s coming. And it going to hurt.

- Huge Cost increases or utility/damage loss on nightblade ultimates, it’s way too much.
- Some of your passives revisited, passive regen made like everyone else (bad). You’ll have to build for sustain like the rest of us. And lose damage.
- Damage reductions across the board, nightblades are out of line by a long shot.
- Stacking cost increase on cloak. Like dodge roll and streak.

That would be the beginning of seeing you guys balanced in Cyrodiil.

I’d like to see a few buffs instead, but ZOS doesn’t do that, and I’d like to play the damn damage again without the ridiculous single class supremacy.

Wait... what? Sorcs aren't a usable class? Over the past few days I've watched multiple streams/youtube videos of sorcs destroying people in 1vX, and I honestly think they're by far the most popular class in the game after rollerblades.

Yes, this is a #nerfsorc thread now, but you asked for it with comments like that.

TBH I think the comments are less "We should nerf the *** out of NBs," but more "every other class has been nerfed a whole lot more, and unless a miracle happens and they buff the 7 underperforming specs, then this is the most likely route."

NB has one of the best damages. (Probably tied with DK, but less sacrifice to use) Best PvP defense, best passives, best mobility, (Well, stam does. A stamsorc is faster, but less escapey) and best sustain. Its been top 3 since procalypse, and the only issues it has were bugs.

DDuke

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

Well, no. It wasn't cool.

That's why I don't want it to happen to other classes too. Unique class abilities add so much depth to PVP, it's just sad and boring when broken and nerfed abilities force us to be more and more the same. Everyone and his dog isn't running DBOS because it's just so amazing, but because for so many classes it's better than their own ultimates. That sucks. I'm using dampen on my magplar not because it's a great shield, but because my class shield is godawful.

Let nightblades be nightblades, and that includes pissing people off by winking in and out of visibility. There's enough counterplay, they're hardly godlike and alone in their great might in Cyrodiil.

Since the torch waving mobs here basically destroyed Sorc as a usable class, and the devs have NEVER EVER reverted a nerf, and buffed Sorcs ONCE in about two years - not counting the 50+ stupid pet adjustments...

There’s NO other way to fix your class except with the nerf bat. I’m sorry. It’s coming. And it going to hurt.

- Huge Cost increases or utility/damage loss on nightblade ultimates, it’s way too much.
- Some of your passives revisited, passive regen made like everyone else (bad). You’ll have to build for sustain like the rest of us. And lose damage.
- Damage reductions across the board, nightblades are out of line by a long shot.
- Stacking cost increase on cloak. Like dodge roll and streak.

That would be the beginning of seeing you guys balanced in Cyrodiil.

I’d like to see a few buffs instead, but ZOS doesn’t do that, and I’d like to play the damn damage again without the ridiculous single class supremacy.

Wait... what? Sorcs aren't a usable class? Over the past few days I've watched multiple streams/youtube videos of sorcs destroying people in 1vX, and I honestly think they're by far the most popular class in the game after rollerblades.

Yes, this is a #nerfsorc thread now, but you asked for it with comments like that.

TBH I think the comments are less "We should nerf the *** out of NBs," but more "every other class has been nerfed a whole lot more, and unless a miracle happens and they buff the 7 underperforming specs, then this is the most likely route."

NB has one of the best damages. (Probably tied with DK, but less sacrifice to use) Best PvP defense, best passives, best mobility, (Well, stam does. A stamsorc is faster, but less escapey) and best sustain. Its been top 3 since procalypse, and the only issues it has were bugs.

Right. The problem is that the people who comment don't really understand what is wrong with NB balance.

People think cloak is the problem - it isn't. Anyone who plays a build without infinite regen knows this.


The real problem is that it's far too easy to build an extremely easy to play & forgiving stamblade build by stacking regen while still maintaining high kill potential thanks to the naturally high tooltip of Relentless Focus combined with Incap's +20% damage.

These builds aren't punished for their mistakes, because if they miss with their two button combo they can just spam dodge rolls & cloaks until the combo is available again and there's very little anyone can do about it after the changes that made highest damage single target non-ultimates dodgeable.

Cloak functions as it has functioned for the past few years (when they last nerfed it to hell by removing the purge from it).


So yeah, I don't care if they nerf the meta rollerblades (because let's be honest, they really are literally everywhere due to how easy they are to play) by changes targeted at reducing their efficiency, or buff the classes/builds struggling against them - as long as they don't nerf the whole class and the many "balanced", fun (and far, far less popular) builds associated with it.

thankyourat

DDuke wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

Well, no. It wasn't cool.

That's why I don't want it to happen to other classes too. Unique class abilities add so much depth to PVP, it's just sad and boring when broken and nerfed abilities force us to be more and more the same. Everyone and his dog isn't running DBOS because it's just so amazing, but because for so many classes it's better than their own ultimates. That sucks. I'm using dampen on my magplar not because it's a great shield, but because my class shield is godawful.

Let nightblades be nightblades, and that includes pissing people off by winking in and out of visibility. There's enough counterplay, they're hardly godlike and alone in their great might in Cyrodiil.

Since the torch waving mobs here basically destroyed Sorc as a usable class, and the devs have NEVER EVER reverted a nerf, and buffed Sorcs ONCE in about two years - not counting the 50+ stupid pet adjustments...

There’s NO other way to fix your class except with the nerf bat. I’m sorry. It’s coming. And it going to hurt.

- Huge Cost increases or utility/damage loss on nightblade ultimates, it’s way too much.
- Some of your passives revisited, passive regen made like everyone else (bad). You’ll have to build for sustain like the rest of us. And lose damage.
- Damage reductions across the board, nightblades are out of line by a long shot.
- Stacking cost increase on cloak. Like dodge roll and streak.

That would be the beginning of seeing you guys balanced in Cyrodiil.

I’d like to see a few buffs instead, but ZOS doesn’t do that, and I’d like to play the damn damage again without the ridiculous single class supremacy.

Wait... what? Sorcs aren't a usable class? Over the past few days I've watched multiple streams/youtube videos of sorcs destroying people in 1vX, and I honestly think they're by far the most popular class in the game after rollerblades.

Yes, this is a #nerfsorc thread now, but you asked for it with comments like that.

TBH I think the comments are less "We should nerf the *** out of NBs," but more "every other class has been nerfed a whole lot more, and unless a miracle happens and they buff the 7 underperforming specs, then this is the most likely route."

NB has one of the best damages. (Probably tied with DK, but less sacrifice to use) Best PvP defense, best passives, best mobility, (Well, stam does. A stamsorc is faster, but less escapey) and best sustain. Its been top 3 since procalypse, and the only issues it has were bugs.

Right. The problem is that the people who comment don't really understand what is wrong with NB balance.

People think cloak is the problem - it isn't. Anyone who plays a build without infinite regen knows this.


The real problem is that it's far too easy to build an extremely easy to play & forgiving stamblade build by stacking regen while still maintaining high kill potential thanks to the naturally high tooltip of Relentless Focus combined with Incap's +20% damage.

These builds aren't punished for their mistakes, because if they miss with their two button combo they can just spam dodge rolls & cloaks until the combo is available again and there's very little anyone can do about it after the changes that made highest damage single target non-ultimates dodgeable.

Cloak functions as it has functioned for the past few years (when they last nerfed it to hell by removing the purge from it).


So yeah, I don't care if they nerf the meta rollerblades (because let's be honest, they really are literally everywhere due to how easy they are to play) by changes targeted at reducing their efficiency - as long as they don't nerf the whole class and the many balanced, fun (and far, far less popular) builds associated with it.

Honestly I see more snipers and gankers than rollerblades. Literally almost every fight there is a nightblade spamming snipe at me or has failed a gank so he is waiting for more players to show up so he can try again. I encounter these nightblades far more than any other build. But actual balanced rollerblades with high regen I rarely encounter and even less than that I can play in cyrodiil for hours and not see another magblade. All my nightblade hate literally comes from snipe and incap. It's too the point now where I actually get happy to see a rollerblade who is actually competent at the game. The name of eso is basically play defensive until your combo is ready and then try to burst and two good players will basically do this until someone has a laggy cc break and they win. That's basically all classes. It's also why Stam DK is struggling to get kills they don't have a burst ability to pair with leap.

DDuke

thankyourat wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

Well, no. It wasn't cool.

That's why I don't want it to happen to other classes too. Unique class abilities add so much depth to PVP, it's just sad and boring when broken and nerfed abilities force us to be more and more the same. Everyone and his dog isn't running DBOS because it's just so amazing, but because for so many classes it's better than their own ultimates. That sucks. I'm using dampen on my magplar not because it's a great shield, but because my class shield is godawful.

Let nightblades be nightblades, and that includes pissing people off by winking in and out of visibility. There's enough counterplay, they're hardly godlike and alone in their great might in Cyrodiil.

Since the torch waving mobs here basically destroyed Sorc as a usable class, and the devs have NEVER EVER reverted a nerf, and buffed Sorcs ONCE in about two years - not counting the 50+ stupid pet adjustments...

There’s NO other way to fix your class except with the nerf bat. I’m sorry. It’s coming. And it going to hurt.

- Huge Cost increases or utility/damage loss on nightblade ultimates, it’s way too much.
- Some of your passives revisited, passive regen made like everyone else (bad). You’ll have to build for sustain like the rest of us. And lose damage.
- Damage reductions across the board, nightblades are out of line by a long shot.
- Stacking cost increase on cloak. Like dodge roll and streak.

That would be the beginning of seeing you guys balanced in Cyrodiil.

I’d like to see a few buffs instead, but ZOS doesn’t do that, and I’d like to play the damn damage again without the ridiculous single class supremacy.

Wait... what? Sorcs aren't a usable class? Over the past few days I've watched multiple streams/youtube videos of sorcs destroying people in 1vX, and I honestly think they're by far the most popular class in the game after rollerblades.

Yes, this is a #nerfsorc thread now, but you asked for it with comments like that.

TBH I think the comments are less "We should nerf the *** out of NBs," but more "every other class has been nerfed a whole lot more, and unless a miracle happens and they buff the 7 underperforming specs, then this is the most likely route."

NB has one of the best damages. (Probably tied with DK, but less sacrifice to use) Best PvP defense, best passives, best mobility, (Well, stam does. A stamsorc is faster, but less escapey) and best sustain. Its been top 3 since procalypse, and the only issues it has were bugs.

Right. The problem is that the people who comment don't really understand what is wrong with NB balance.

People think cloak is the problem - it isn't. Anyone who plays a build without infinite regen knows this.


The real problem is that it's far too easy to build an extremely easy to play & forgiving stamblade build by stacking regen while still maintaining high kill potential thanks to the naturally high tooltip of Relentless Focus combined with Incap's +20% damage.

These builds aren't punished for their mistakes, because if they miss with their two button combo they can just spam dodge rolls & cloaks until the combo is available again and there's very little anyone can do about it after the changes that made highest damage single target non-ultimates dodgeable.

Cloak functions as it has functioned for the past few years (when they last nerfed it to hell by removing the purge from it).


So yeah, I don't care if they nerf the meta rollerblades (because let's be honest, they really are literally everywhere due to how easy they are to play) by changes targeted at reducing their efficiency - as long as they don't nerf the whole class and the many balanced, fun (and far, far less popular) builds associated with it.

Honestly I see more snipers and gankers than rollerblades. Literally almost every fight there is a nightblade spamming snipe at me or has failed a gank so he is waiting for more players to show up so he can try again. I encounter these nightblades far more than any other build. But actual balanced rollerblades with high regen I rarely encounter and even less than that I can play in cyrodiil for hours and not see another magblade. All my nightblade hate literally comes from snipe and incap. It's too the point now where I actually get happy to see a rollerblade who is actually competent at the game. The name of eso is basically play defensive until your combo is ready and then try to burst and two good players will basically do this until someone has a laggy cc break and they win. That's basically all classes. It's also why Stam DK is struggling to get kills they don't have a burst ability to pair with leap.

Well of course there's lots of zerg surfing snipers as well, but have you considered that it's more than likely that half of those builds that you consider "snipers and gankers" are actually trying to do that with entirely wrong gear (either sustain gear or just bad sets)?

Because let's be honest, it's not easy to escape at all after a failed gank (except with a bad build that snipes from 40m+) when you have limited dodge rolls and limited cloaks before you're out of resources.

If you see these people still managing to escape, then they're running sustain gear.

Goes back to what I was saying about rollerblades still having access to high burst/kill potential with Incap Relentless - many people think they got killed by a "gank build" because of that when it actually was just a rollerblade with their Eternal Hunts & Senches.

Lord-Otto

thankyourat wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

*sigh*

There's really no point in arguing with forumblades.
I'll make it short.

So sorcs can give away their shield to other classes and get punished for their unique combat role, mobility and range, while also getting their damage nerfed, that is cool.

But suggesting nightblades, who get stronger shields than sorcs (!), can spam their class strength without punishment, and get their damage pushed into top PvE and PvP performance, suggesting nerfing that is not cool?

Right.
Yeah.
Go away.

For magblade to run a shield as big as sorcs they need to run over 50k Magicka and are forced to run dampen instead of harness. at this point dampen will only equal hardened on a normal sorc build. While also losing out on the sustain by running harness. I would also argue that sorc sustain is just as good as magblades and even better than magblade when facing Magicka opponents. Sorc is still the strongest 1vX mag class. sure as a magblade you will probably die less but you will also not close out as many 1vXes. Sorc passives are also great for sustain because 5% reduce ability cost and 10% additional recovery, with dark conversion being overall a wonderful ability. Honestly I think most people would consider sorcs stronger for most PvP content besides 1v1. PVE is a different story. You are basically arguing over the two most well built classes. Templar and DK can have an argument but sorc is really good. It just struggles in duels because of the damage resistance meta and not having defile

Nah. Dampened alone is stronger than Hardened on a NB, thanks to the 8% max mag passive.

Harness, especially stacked with Hardened, is very strong against mag builds 1v1. But... magblades are already better in duels, even with shieldstacking. And normal Cyrodiil, you often don't have the time to stack shields on sorcs. When you have two or more people wailing on you, you need to spam your strongest shield.

Dark Conversion suffers from a similar problem. You just can't wave your hands for a 4k heal for two seconds when there's people attacking you. The passive sustain from siphoning is much more practicable.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Okay to punch a hole in this super regen Nightblades have 15% for all three. Sorcs have 10% for all three just spit in two different trees and Templars have all three for slotting one power. So unless I’m missing something that gap is not really big. Also that 15% for all three was a heavy nerf it was 30% for stamina no one cares about Health regen it’s useless unless you build around it and a 15% regen buff to a pool you don’t use is wasted.

Siphoning Attacks is not even a shadow of it’s farmer self it’s just a weak heal that takes 20 seconds to give what a heavy attack can.

As is most Nightblades are glass canons not regen gods. ZoS took every non canon build we had. They will lose a lot of players when they nerf Nightblades. Want a shield you are forced to use a non class one, want a burst heal well too bad. Want any kind of group utility none here. If you look at all Nightblades lack which is a lot it’s not really OP.

If more people added defenses into their build they would not have a problem. We don’t have extra armor slots or hidden bonuses Templars, Sorcerers and Dragonknight all have damage buffs we don’t have.

Nightblades are made to be solo/small group assassins once we are nerfed a lot of players will leave.

DDuke

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Okay to punch a hole in this super regen Nightblades have 15% for all three. Sorcs have 10% for all three just spit in two different trees and Templars have all three for slotting one power. So unless I’m missing something that gap is not really big. Also that 15% for all three was a heavy nerf it was 30% for stamina no one cares about Health regen it’s useless unless you build around it and a 15% regen buff to a pool you don’t use is wasted.

Siphoning Attacks is not even a shadow of it’s farmer self it’s just a weak heal that takes 20 seconds to give what a heavy attack can.

As is most Nightblades are glass canons not regen gods. ZoS took every non canon build we had. They will lose a lot of players when they nerf Nightblades. Want a shield you are forced to use a non class one, want a burst heal well too bad. Want any kind of group utility none here. If you look at all Nightblades lack which is a lot it’s not really OP.

If more people added defenses into their build they would not have a problem. We don’t have extra armor slots or hidden bonuses Templars, Sorcerers and Dragonknight all have damage buffs we don’t have.

Nightblades are made to be solo/small group assassins once we are nerfed a lot of players will leave.

Well it's not via passives that NBs get to abuse regen, it's just that they have the easiest time reseting the stacking dodge roll cost modifier with cloak.

That's not a problem with low regen builds, but when you start stacking sustain sets like Eternal Hunt/Bone Pirate & getting regen enchants on jewelry, Serpent (or Atronach) mundus etc for 4k+ stam regen... well, if cloak lasts full 3 seconds you're looking at 6k stamina restored while invisible & dodge roll cost modifier reset.

Meanwhile, a damage oriented build will restore 2-3k stamina at most and isn't able to spam those cloaks nearly as much as someone with Shacklebreaker and/or mag regen enchants on jewelry.


So it's definitely not all NBs that are problematic, it's just the meta builds giving everyone else a bad rap. Usually when something becomes "meta" and overtly popular, it implies there's a problem.


...damage oriented builds have taken numerous nerfs over the years (Battle Spirit, Camo Hunter nerf, removal of proc sets & sneak attack modifier etc etc), maybe it's about time regen stacking gets nerfed as well.

Lord-Otto

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

[...]Templars, Sorcerers and Dragonknight all have damage buffs we don’t have. [...]

Dear me...
*facepalm*

I... I'm out. This is beyond stupid. You just can't have an objective discussion with forumblades.

Last bit of advice:
PREPARE.
The nerf IS coming, and since you guys rather lie to our faces than discuss reasonable changes, the nerf might be very, VERY unpleasant.

C ya, duckers.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

[...]Templars, Sorcerers and Dragonknight all have damage buffs we don’t have. [...]

Dear me...
*facepalm*

I... I'm out. This is beyond stupid. You just can't have an objective discussion with forumblades.

Last bit of advice:
PREPARE.
The nerf IS coming, and since you guys rather lie to our faces than discuss reasonable changes, the nerf might be very, VERY unpleasant.

C ya, duckers.

Templar:
•Piercing Spear same 10% bonus to crit damage plus 10% more damage to blocking targets.
•Balanced Warrior +6% weapon damage.
•Restoring Spirit -4% magic, stamina and ultimate cost.

Sorcerer:
•Unholy Knowledge -5% magic and stamina cost
•Power Stone -15% ultimate cost
•Daedric Protection +20 health and stamina recovery when Daedric Summoning is slotted.
•Capacitor +10% magic regen
•Energized +5% physical and shock damage
•Expert Mage +2% spell and weapon damage per Sorcerer power slotted.

Dragon Knight
•World in Ruin +6% flame and poison AoE damage.
•Mountain’s Blessing +5% weapon damage for 20 seconds after using a Earthen Heart power. +3 ultimate if you are in combat 6 second cool down.

Warden:
•Flourish +12% magic and stamina regen when Animal Companion power is slotted.
•Advanced Species +2% damage per Animal Companion power slotted.
•Piercing Cold +6% magic and cold damage.

Now let’s like at Nightblades.

Nightblade:
•Master Assassin +10% damage when sneaking or invisible. 100% longer stun. (Double the normal time)
•Hemorrhage +10% crit damage, crit hit grant 3% higher crit chance for 20 seconds.
•Refreshing Shadows +15 health, magic and stamina regen.
•Magicka Flood +8% magic when Siphoning power slotted.

Those are the cold hard facts so where is the wild crazy regen powers we have if you add the cost reductions and regen of other class it’s actually better.

Feanor

The cold hard facts are also misleading once you look at practical builds. Unholy Knowledge and Power Stone are strong passives, yes. You have to be aware though that the skills and ultimates used are very expensive to begin with (no cheap spammables or 70 cost ultimates but 2.7k and 200+ upwards). Outside a pet build - which are not really good in open world - the Daedric Protection passive is useless, and you also have to double bar the skills in question on a class already tight for bar slots. Same with Energized and Expert Mage: As lightning staff weaving is so clunky Inferno Staves are dominant (apart from master staff clench/reach spam), and our lightning class DoT is not viable in PvP unless you're fighting close quarter. So practically you don't really get that much out of the 5% lightning damage. Expert Mage dito, you can get to a 8% or 10% increase. But that's not viable build you can fight with any longer.

NB has at least 9 good passives out of 12, and more importantly they synergize well with their toolkit, both in PvE and in PvP. There is really no argument to be had about that.

DEATHSHEAD288b14_ESO

The class defining trait is its ability to use stealth. This seems to be the just of the whole convo. I get it, stealth give you a big advantage of where and when u wanna set up your kill, or to remove yourself from getting killed yourself. Imagine there was no stealth, or these ridiculous potions basically had all the things you ask for...what are they then? Warriors with different names? Mages with c**p shields? The class basically disappears cause no one wants to play it anymore due to having the one class defining trait stripped from it. So you want a vanilla guy with 2 <insert weapons here> rolling around on the ground flailing around like the village idiot with little to nothing to keep him alive, that almost every other class has to keep them alive. Not to mention, they pretty much get 2-3 shot without cloak.....? How is this reality? There's at least 4 SOLID ways of countering stealth. How many more do you need? 7? 11? 22? Should every move you make shoot out a wave of light revealing every stealthed class in a 100 yard radius? That they even gave you 4 solid ways of detecting/pulling out of stealth is more then enough. Many other games that have stealth and pvp don't even have that. 1-2 at most. Most use aoe alone. Stop crying about one classes moves. Loon for the defenses in your class to counter them. And in reality it's a game of f**king rock paper scissors. Air counters vehicles who kill infantry. Your class will be inherently weaker then others and stronger then others inherently. Stop trying to 1v1 a class that excels at it and play to your strengths. These guys are obviously calfing you off the pack and using your arrogance and anger to smash you down and play their game. That's their point. They are skirmishers. Spies. Snipers. Wolves. They lure you in where their abilities count and yours matter less. You take away their one thing, stealth they are just some half done wizard or warrior who wont last 2 seconds in a fight with either class.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Feanor wrote: »

The cold hard facts are also misleading once you look at practical builds. Unholy Knowledge and Power Stone are strong passives, yes. You have to be aware though that the skills and ultimates used are very expensive to begin with (no cheap spammables or 70 cost ultimates but 2.7k and 200+ upwards). Outside a pet build - which are not really good in open world - the Daedric Protection passive is useless, and you also have to double bar the skills in question on a class already tight for bar slots. Same with Energized and Expert Mage: As lightning staff weaving is so clunky Inferno Staves are dominant (apart from master staff clench/reach spam), and our lightning class DoT is not viable in PvP unless you're fighting close quarter. So practically you don't really get that much out of the 5% lightning damage. Expert Mage dito, you can get to a 8% or 10% increase. But that's not viable build you can fight with any longer.

NB has at least 9 good passives out of 12, and more importantly they synergize well with their toolkit, both in PvE and in PvP. There is really no argument to be had about that.

This is true but those are class ultimates DBoS is the goto for stamina and destruction ultimate for magic, sorcerers also have Negate which is very strong. Also Overload cost 64 points and can be used 7.8 times so 7 times and one light attack you can use it again. Now I know it moves slow but I still hit people with it which also opens my third bar. Which is great 15 powers and 2 ultimates is pretty damn strong.

Sorcerers get a third bar to make up for needing to double slot pets, yet most don’t even use one pet. Leaving just a third bar at the cost of one ultimate not a bad trade.