Why are we Still Playing One Stamriel?

Minalan · March 2018

The_Outsider wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Heavy armor, dodge roll, Block, sprint, DBoS, Gap closers, Maj. Evaision, snare removal, speed pots? All things accessible and used by Magicka builds.

@The_Outsider

Accessable = / = Viable

Accessable = / = Optimal

Accessable = / = Competitive

Accessable = / = Balanced

If you can't see how stam builds synergjze far better than mag builds for the skills listed, the darkness of the blob, of bias, or of both has clouded your eyes.

Fear not youngling, for now you see through the glass darkly.
But when you meet greatness, face to face:
All will be revealed.

You routinely call out others for their bias. And you're right. Everyone is biased to some extent. The point of my post was to highlight your own. Like you said, you've got 100+ hours on a magsorc, and you absolutely see through that lens.

The things I listed are irrespective of primary resource pool. How does heavy armor or block not synergize with Magicka builds? My Magicka NB has viable, optimal, competetive, and balanced access to Maj. Evaison. You site speed pots as evidence of Stamina supremicy....Potions...I could go on, and on, and on. But it doesn't matter lol. I actually have huge respect for you as a player, I've fought against you for years and I hope this doesn't come off too flamey...

*"Accessible" is a major and contributing factor to viability, optimization, competition, and balance.

Magicka skill lines don’t have 20% cost reduction “baked in” on Resto and Destro staff passives like stamina weapons, we more or less *need* the LA cost reduction passives.

Heavy armor doesn’t help with the cost reduction, spell penetration (damage), and sustain of Magicka skills.

Therefore, heavy armor does not synergize well with Magicka builds.

Come on man, please go compare the passives before saying something like this. It’s just, like you haven’t ever played a Magicka class and it hurts to read.

Tannus15 · March 2018

Sabbathius wrote: »

We're playing One Stamriel because 2 years ago it was Elder Staves Online. It's a cycle.

At this point, I would love to see racial passives tweaked so that they don't lock any class into stamina or magicka, so we can easily switch between the two as Saint Wrobel dictates at any given time.

This.

The longer the gap between balance changes the more the META will boil down to the "best way to play" and the more people will copy that method.

Even if it's only a slight advantage, people will eventually gravitate towards it, in the same way that every stam build is redguard and every magi build is altmer now.

Small advantages become a huge thing once it becomes common knowledge and when people fail, instead of blaming themselves they look for something external to blame. I do the same thing, the "reason" i'm not getting 35k parses on my mag sorc is because he's a Breton, not an Altmer. Or it's my ping. Or, maybe my rotation is sloppy? Nah, couldn't be, I should race change.

LittlePinkDot · March 2018

waitwhat wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

We've been playing One Stamriel for a year and a half.

False.

Stam only became more prevalent in June 2017 with the release of Morrowind, less than a year ago. By no means did the increase in the stamina population lead to a marked decline--or loss of viability--of magicka builds in either PvP or PvE.

Simply put, it became easier to be a stamina player and harder to be a magicka player after Morrowind compared to the difficulty of being a stamina player and the ease of being a magicka player prior to Morrowind. This is as it should be. This is balance. Prior to Morrowind, magicka outclassed stamina on all fronts.

tl;dr: yes being mag got harder than previously, but this is isn't undue or inappropriate.

From a new players perspective I disagree. Maybe mag is only balanced with max CP. But starting from scratch with a magsorc was crap. I didnt finish her and instead made a stamblade and its ridiculous how much easier and more fun for overland content the stamblade is.

Abysswarrior45 · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

SkillzMFG wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

We've been playing One Stamriel for a year and a half. The balance in your game has reached meme proportions matched only by incoherent decisions and an abyss of communication on the matter.

Stamina has:

Better burst damage (dawnbreaker is AoE with no delay, meteor is AoE with delay. Plus stam gets ultimates like Incap)

Better mobility (both types of NB's aside, snare removal, speed pots and sprint make all stam builds more mobile than any mag build)

Better survivability (heavy armour, dodge roll)

Better Heals over Time (vigor)

Better Damage over Time (bleeds)

Better AoE Damage (hurricane, spin to win are miles ahead of magician equivalents like boundless storm / pulsar)

Better Damage Sets (sets like Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager have no Magicka equivalent)

Access to Spammable Gap Closers (which can no longer miss and ignore the Z axis, lol)

Access to Major Evasion (lol)

Magicka has:

Better Raid Healing (hope you've got that Templar / Warden levelled)

Access to Damage Shields (which don't last their duration, don't scale vs multiple opponents and have hard counters like Shieldbreaker and Shattering Blows)

Solutions

Do not remove any of Stam's capabilities. Instead, add the following to Magicka:

- A Magicka morph of Dawnbreaker

- Easy access to snare removal, HoTs, bleeds, evasion and gap closers

- Increase the innate resistance on Light Armour

- Buff Pulsar

- Change Shieldbreaker to only proc on Heavy Attacks, add an internal cool down or introduce an equivalent against Stam builds)

- Introduce an equivalent of Shattering Blows that affects Stamina builds, or rework Shattering Blows completely

- Introduce better Magicka sets (equivalents of Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager, etc)

It really is unfair that they get shattering blows to break down our only defense (which was already nerfed before) but we don't get something that breaks evasion. Give us something like 'Precision' that allows our attacks and spells to cut through their evasion at certain times.

I get it, stamblades are supposed to be elusive but I'm really tired of invis+roll eternal combo while I can only cast my streak 4 times before running out of magicka completely.

Also, buff magelight! Today I tested it in some real pvp and it's pretty much useless.

Thats because a lot of spells can't be dodged now anymore. What a stupid argument. Shields negate a stam builds crit, penetration, status effects, etc. The *** you mean its unfair?

There is a hard counter to shields in form of a set. Why is there no evasion equivalent that allows you to hit targets that are always evading?

There are hard counters in the form of beam attacks, curse, destro ult, shalks, jabs, radiant, etc. List goes on and on and on. And shield breaker is cheesy af and shouldn't be a thing. Also shield breaker hurts stam dk too should they pop igneous and/or hardened armor.

swirve · March 2018

#satire

Tasear · March 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

We've been playing One Stamriel for a year and a half. The balance in your game has reached meme proportions matched only by incoherent decisions and an abyss of communication on the matter.

Stamina has:

Better burst damage (dawnbreaker is AoE with no delay, meteor is AoE with delay. Plus stam gets ultimates like Incap)

Better mobility (both types of NB's aside, snare removal, speed pots and sprint make all stam builds more mobile than any mag build)

Better survivability (heavy armour, dodge roll)

Better Heals over Time (vigor)

Better Damage over Time (bleeds)

Better AoE Damage (hurricane, spin to win are miles ahead of magician equivalents like boundless storm / pulsar)

Better Damage Sets (sets like Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager have no Magicka equivalent)

Access to Spammable Gap Closers (which can no longer miss and ignore the Z axis, lol)

Access to Major Evasion (lol)

Magicka has:

Better Raid Healing (hope you've got that Templar / Warden levelled)

Access to Damage Shields (which don't last their duration, don't scale vs multiple opponents and have hard counters like Shieldbreaker and Shattering Blows)

Solutions

Do not remove any of Stam's capabilities. Instead, add the following to Magicka:

- A Magicka morph of Dawnbreaker

- Easy access to snare removal, HoTs, bleeds, evasion and gap closers

- Increase the innate resistance on Light Armour

- Buff Pulsar

- Change Shieldbreaker to only proc on Heavy Attacks, add an internal cool down or introduce an equivalent against Stam builds)

- Introduce an equivalent of Shattering Blows that affects Stamina builds, or rework Shattering Blows completely

- Introduce better Magicka sets (equivalents of Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager, etc)

Oh so much misinformation....
Better survivability (heavy armour, dodge roll) - Needed because Stamina builds are melee

Better Heals over Time (vigor) - Umm, I don't think so. Magicka builds have a whole weapon line they can use (restoration staff).

Better Damage over Time (bleeds) Stam only has bleeds from twin blade and blunt axe passive. Magica (sorc) has ele blockade, liquid lightning, boundless storm etc...

Better AoE Damage (hurricane, spin to win are miles ahead of magician equivalents like boundless storm / pulsar) - See above. Magicka has MORE sources of AoE damage options. Stam only has endless hail and spin to win.

Better Damage Sets (sets like Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager have no Magicka equivalent) - Obviously, you've never used Velidreth, Nerien'eth, Ilambris, or Stormfist sets.

Access to Spammable Gap Closers (which can no longer miss and ignore the Z axis, lol) - Magicka is usually a ranged build. Why the hell would you even want a gap closer??

Access to Major Evasion (lol) - See above. Ranged builds do not need Major Evasion. They have access to "Spell Resist" passives in the light armor tree.

So much bad in this response, where does one begin?

The damage sets you suggested, one is stamina/poison (lol) one stamina/physical (hilarious) and the others are PVE AOE sets that real people walk out of because we aren’t dumb mobs. You guys still have the best sets.

I think he meant that stamina heals are the best without wasting your back bar on a restoration staff. I’d love a Magicka vigor, and then I could back bar a master’s lightning staff or a sword and board for access to shield ultimate.

Seriously, liquid lightning and wall of elements? In PVP? I don’t even...

Gap closers. In PVP. Like when your stamina opponent runs off with a sports drink pot and major expedition. Players don’t stand still and die when you want them to.

hmm magicka got no gapclosers? magplar - that spear charge (dont have one)- mag dks(chain gapclose morph), sorc streak, lotus fan (mag nb)--> dont think mag warden has one

magicka OP sets: lich(easy sustain), riposte(minor maim), zaan , skoria, burning spellweave, war maiden ....

Better AoE Damage: aoe in PvP - idc about aoe spamming in groups - thats not PvP its called zerging - almost no solo player will run steeltornado anyways - but for zerging magicka is bis bc of detonation and eye of the storm

access to major evasion: mag nb - so the rest rly hasnt got access to it - so mag chars got all got acess to instant big healing/shields which stam is lacking

heals over time: resto line is right here - stam also needs to slot 2h for surviveablity

its right that stam got better burst ultimate's in general - so magicka got soulassault(insta killing non nbs medium armor chars), and meteor and eye of the storm (if u want to zerg bc of AoEs u mentioned thats ur ult)

better damage over time is wrong on most chars: mag dk = king of dots, mag nb: cripple, destro staff spammable reach with master staff, warden double dot

Tbh stam and magicka are pretty balanced and excel in different areas. I play both and I'm pretty sure that most of the completet biased people either have only magicka or stamina chars.

talking about magicka vigor it exists - its called mutagen but hp healing doesnt matter on shieldstackers normally - or is ur sorc running it?
Dodgeroll is finally viable again - so there are still a ton of spells countering it.
talking about shieldbreaker and counters - there is a set called duroks its reduces with CP ur healing by around 40%

If u think that stam is so insane OP get a stam dk and we will see .

Wardens have that vine thingy with questionable targetting but a lot of fun for gap closer.

Pr0fischimmler · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Do you trial at all? Magicka (read: ranged) DDs will always get more spots than stamina purely because of the fact that they have ranged capability.

That takes 2 MagDPS out because Templar and DK have to be (or rather should be) in melee range for their skills. MagWarden isn't in a better place, it's 20% behind every other Magspec. Stamina is in no way "useless" for PvE, they can still pull insane DPS.

Another problem here is sustain - imho way easier for StamDPS than for MagDPS.

1. Both have ranged specs that perform well also. Magplar double clench rotation, or Force Pulse rotation.

2. Full light attack rotations are possible on both Stam and Mag - with bubbles and one heavy attack per rotation, any class can sustain a solid dps rotation imho/ as far as i experienced. Magblade Rota: All light attacks or gtfo. Easy to sustain. Period. Non-pet Sorc: Bubbles/ Shards and all light attacks rotation is easily sustainable. Petsorc: Heavy attack rotation. Need I say more? Magplar: Shards/ Bubbles lets you run all LA rotations with force pulse, double clench rota has 1 heavy attack each rotation. Mag DK: I never played the class, but my mag DK main friend says that with orbs he can do just fine - however can put out more damage on other classes so he rarely brings Mag DK to leaderboard or progress runs. Wardens need a full rework to be playable in PVE without oceans of QQ from PVP'ers. Because adapting is harder than asking for nerfs.

King_Thelon · March 2018

lol ya "adapting" in PvE sounds hard

King_Thelon · March 2018

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

SkillzMFG wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

We've been playing One Stamriel for a year and a half. The balance in your game has reached meme proportions matched only by incoherent decisions and an abyss of communication on the matter.

Stamina has:

Better burst damage (dawnbreaker is AoE with no delay, meteor is AoE with delay. Plus stam gets ultimates like Incap)

Better mobility (both types of NB's aside, snare removal, speed pots and sprint make all stam builds more mobile than any mag build)

Better survivability (heavy armour, dodge roll)

Better Heals over Time (vigor)

Better Damage over Time (bleeds)

Better AoE Damage (hurricane, spin to win are miles ahead of magician equivalents like boundless storm / pulsar)

Better Damage Sets (sets like Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager have no Magicka equivalent)

Access to Spammable Gap Closers (which can no longer miss and ignore the Z axis, lol)

Access to Major Evasion (lol)

Magicka has:

Better Raid Healing (hope you've got that Templar / Warden levelled)

Access to Damage Shields (which don't last their duration, don't scale vs multiple opponents and have hard counters like Shieldbreaker and Shattering Blows)

Solutions

Do not remove any of Stam's capabilities. Instead, add the following to Magicka:

- A Magicka morph of Dawnbreaker

- Easy access to snare removal, HoTs, bleeds, evasion and gap closers

- Increase the innate resistance on Light Armour

- Buff Pulsar

- Change Shieldbreaker to only proc on Heavy Attacks, add an internal cool down or introduce an equivalent against Stam builds)

- Introduce an equivalent of Shattering Blows that affects Stamina builds, or rework Shattering Blows completely

- Introduce better Magicka sets (equivalents of Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager, etc)

It really is unfair that they get shattering blows to break down our only defense (which was already nerfed before) but we don't get something that breaks evasion. Give us something like 'Precision' that allows our attacks and spells to cut through their evasion at certain times.

I get it, stamblades are supposed to be elusive but I'm really tired of invis+roll eternal combo while I can only cast my streak 4 times before running out of magicka completely.

Also, buff magelight! Today I tested it in some real pvp and it's pretty much useless.

Thats because a lot of spells can't be dodged now anymore. What a stupid argument. Shields negate a stam builds crit, penetration, status effects, etc. The *** you mean its unfair?

There is a hard counter to shields in form of a set. Why is there no evasion equivalent that allows you to hit targets that are always evading?

There are hard counters in the form of beam attacks, curse, destro ult, shalks, jabs, radiant, etc. List goes on and on and on. And shield breaker is cheesy af and shouldn't be a thing. Also shield breaker hurts stam dk too should they pop igneous and/or hardened armor.

Fantastic mental gymnastics combined with a misunderstanding of the term 'hard counter.'

Tan9oSuccka · March 2018

I genuinely feel bad for the Devs that get tagged in these kinds of posts.

When at work, I file things like this under “X” in Outlook.

Aebaradath · March 2018

This crap is still going?

Abysswarrior45 · March 2018

King_Thelon wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

SkillzMFG wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

We've been playing One Stamriel for a year and a half. The balance in your game has reached meme proportions matched only by incoherent decisions and an abyss of communication on the matter.

Stamina has:

Better burst damage (dawnbreaker is AoE with no delay, meteor is AoE with delay. Plus stam gets ultimates like Incap)

Better mobility (both types of NB's aside, snare removal, speed pots and sprint make all stam builds more mobile than any mag build)

Better survivability (heavy armour, dodge roll)

Better Heals over Time (vigor)

Better Damage over Time (bleeds)

Better AoE Damage (hurricane, spin to win are miles ahead of magician equivalents like boundless storm / pulsar)

Better Damage Sets (sets like Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager have no Magicka equivalent)

Access to Spammable Gap Closers (which can no longer miss and ignore the Z axis, lol)

Access to Major Evasion (lol)

Magicka has:

Better Raid Healing (hope you've got that Templar / Warden levelled)

Access to Damage Shields (which don't last their duration, don't scale vs multiple opponents and have hard counters like Shieldbreaker and Shattering Blows)

Solutions

Do not remove any of Stam's capabilities. Instead, add the following to Magicka:

- A Magicka morph of Dawnbreaker

- Easy access to snare removal, HoTs, bleeds, evasion and gap closers

- Increase the innate resistance on Light Armour

- Buff Pulsar

- Change Shieldbreaker to only proc on Heavy Attacks, add an internal cool down or introduce an equivalent against Stam builds)

- Introduce an equivalent of Shattering Blows that affects Stamina builds, or rework Shattering Blows completely

- Introduce better Magicka sets (equivalents of Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager, etc)

It really is unfair that they get shattering blows to break down our only defense (which was already nerfed before) but we don't get something that breaks evasion. Give us something like 'Precision' that allows our attacks and spells to cut through their evasion at certain times.

I get it, stamblades are supposed to be elusive but I'm really tired of invis+roll eternal combo while I can only cast my streak 4 times before running out of magicka completely.

Also, buff magelight! Today I tested it in some real pvp and it's pretty much useless.

Thats because a lot of spells can't be dodged now anymore. What a stupid argument. Shields negate a stam builds crit, penetration, status effects, etc. The *** you mean its unfair?

There is a hard counter to shields in form of a set. Why is there no evasion equivalent that allows you to hit targets that are always evading?

There are hard counters in the form of beam attacks, curse, destro ult, shalks, jabs, radiant, etc. List goes on and on and on. And shield breaker is cheesy af and shouldn't be a thing. Also shield breaker hurts stam dk too should they pop igneous and/or hardened armor.

Fantastic mental gymnastics combined with a misunderstanding of the term 'hard counter.'

Magic chars gotta deal with shield breaker like stam players gotta deal with Zaan. Both are complete *** that shouldn't exist in ESO. Instead of requesting that ZOS add more *** to screw a medium stam players main form of mitigation ,which already sucks currently (thats why we see all the tanks because L2 is far more reliable than dodging since half the *** in Cyrodiil is undodgeable anyway), how about we ask ZOS to DELETE *** like Zaan and shield breaker which are both forms of free damage.

King_Thelon · March 2018

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Magic chars gotta deal with shield breaker like stam players gotta deal with Zaan.

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Zaan and shield breaker which are both forms of free damage.

Proc (or "free") damage is not the same thing as a hard counter.

Abysswarrior45 · March 2018

King_Thelon wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Magic chars gotta deal with shield breaker like stam players gotta deal with Zaan.

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Zaan and shield breaker which are both forms of free damage.

Proc (or "free") damage is not the same thing as a hard counter.

Yeah I'm no longer talking about hard counters. You didn't ready followup closely looks like. I'm against a hard counter to dodge roll. Moreover, I believe your definition of a hard counter and mine differ so you'd be correct if I used the word in the same context as you. This entire thread is nonsense. You're asking for a "hard counter" (this time your definition) to a form of damage mitigation which is already unreliable in many situations.

King_Thelon · March 2018

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Magic chars gotta deal with shield breaker like stam players gotta deal with Zaan.

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Zaan and shield breaker which are both forms of free damage.

Proc (or "free") damage is not the same thing as a hard counter.

Yeah I'm no longer talking about hard counters. You didn't ready followup closely looks like. I'm against a hard counter to dodge roll. Moreover, I believe your definition of a hard counter and mine differ so you'd be correct if I used the word in the same context as you. This entire thread is nonsense. You're asking for a "hard counter" (this time your definition) to a form of damage mitigation which is already unreliable in many situations.

I mean, you're the one that thinks Zaan is to stamina as Shieldbreaker is to Magicka. So I wouldn't accuse others of spouting 'nonsense,.' And, like you, I want to see hard counters removed rather than added. The point is that having one hard counter to shields (Shieldbreaker) while no such equivalent exists for stamina's damage mitigation mechanism is inherently unbalanced.

Abysswarrior45 · March 2018

King_Thelon wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Magic chars gotta deal with shield breaker like stam players gotta deal with Zaan.

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Zaan and shield breaker which are both forms of free damage.

Proc (or "free") damage is not the same thing as a hard counter.

Yeah I'm no longer talking about hard counters. You didn't ready followup closely looks like. I'm against a hard counter to dodge roll. Moreover, I believe your definition of a hard counter and mine differ so you'd be correct if I used the word in the same context as you. This entire thread is nonsense. You're asking for a "hard counter" (this time your definition) to a form of damage mitigation which is already unreliable in many situations.

I mean, you're the one that thinks Zaan is to stamina as Shieldbreaker is to Magicka. So I wouldn't accuse others of spouting 'nonsense,.' And, like you, I want to see hard counters removed rather than added. The point is that having one hard counter to shields (Shieldbreaker) while no such equivalent exists for stamina's damage mitigation mechanism is inherently unbalanced.

Is it though? Zaan can't be blocked, dodged, LOSed, and often times can't be healed through (coming from a guy who keeps his vigor 20k+ depending on the class). Zaans damage on top of the burst potential of a mag sorc, magblade, mag dk, magplar, or mag den is definitely not able to be healed through and the entire argument that it can be out-spaced is ridiculous as all the opponent has to do is keep walking forward/run forward/gap close/close distance somehow someway. Any medium stam user against Zaan who isn't a NB or templar is going to struggle same as a mag user vs a person with shield breaker.

Furthermore, shields and roll dodging aren't remotely the same. Shields don't have the streak penalty, shields negate pen, crit, and status effects like befoul, shields can be stacked, and harness returns resources. Roll dodgers and people who don't invest into block builds who rely mostly on roll dodging already have to deal with skills that IGNORE that form of damage mitigation on top of a proc set like Zaan. The ONLY damage in the game that ignores shields is oblivion damage. You would absolutely kill medium users and force everyone into the L2 meta if a "hard counter" was added to dodge rolling on top of what there already is that completely ignores it. CP and oblivion damage are the only things that hurt shield users, and stam users who invest into shattering blows sacrifice damage that could be put elsewhere so imo cp isn't even an issue. Also in an "Oh ***" situation mag users have access to doge rolling too as long as their stam management is decent.

King_Thelon · March 2018

To postulate that shields are a better defense mechanism than dodge roll in 2018 is just unabashed bias. Shields barely do their job 1v1; against multiple attackers thry do not scale at all. Dodge roll, on the other hand, mitigates all incoming damage to 0 regardless of the number of attackers.

Abysswarrior45 · March 2018

King_Thelon wrote: »

To postulate that shields are a better defense mechanism than dodge roll in 2018 is just unabashed bias. Shields barely do their job 1v1; against multiple attackers thry do not scale at all. Dodge roll, on the other hand, mitigates all incoming damage to 0 regardless of the number of attackers.

I never argued 1 was better than the other. I simply said dodge roll doesn't need a hard counter and shields were completely different. You not able to read or am I being unclear?

temjiu · March 2018

greenmachine wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Forgot that pvp'ers think they're the only players that exist. Thanks for the reminder.

I wish there was a PvP subforum where all these buff me/nerf them threads could be catalogued. It would make it easier to find them when we're wondering why PvE players got nerfed.

Not only that, but I wish that there was an entirely different skill set for PvP, so they could nerf them all to heck and PvE would not feel a thing. Then the PvP players could gripe all they want, and the devs could turn all their classes into homogenous globs of clay with no diversity, but perfect "balance". and PvE could still be fun.

#KeepPvPseparateplx

Twenty0zTsunami · March 2018

better defense and better survivability/sustain? are you joking? YOu mention dodge roll as if it's OP--it's not. Anyone who misuses it, abuses it, or even just uses it excessively is going to find themselves out of resources with which to actually deal damage.

Go level up a stamblade, don't minmax using established player guides , and try to fight any experienced dragonknight, templar, or sorcerer to duel with.. Let me know how it goes.

They all do massive damage, have ridiculous defense boosts, and massive amount of sustain in terms of health and resource recovery. All of this on excessively effective damaging abilities, usually including aoe damage or an added defensive buff/offensive debuff.

As someone who mains a stamblade that's not just following a "meta' build put together by some youtuber, for a couple years now.. I can state with confidence that objectively it as such: The scales are finaly starting to find balance. Nightblades actually feel viable alongside the other class options-- They don't just die if a dk looks at them funny in pvp, and as such are actually starting be viable outside of PVE glass cannon.

Even in a pve environment the "glass" part is shoved down the players throat, while the "cannon" aspect is really only there if you're very well practiced and experienced. This means good at weaving, animation cancelling, and in general have a mastery over the game, nightblade abilities in particular... Whereas templar, dk, and sorc are basically faceroll once you get the "right" gear, as well as most of the proper morphs and skill unlocks. That being said, I'm not just patting myself on the back-- I haven't mastered the game by far. Really I struggle to sustain more than 16k dps (and even that's high/lucky numbers, usually in the 13-14 range ) on a single "Robust" target.

As an aside, go take a poll of experienced PVE'ers, which is the hardest class to beat VMA with? Most will say Nightblade. More specifically, stamblade.

@LittlePinkDot How high did you get your sorc? I played a stamblade exclusively between 2015 and 2017, and have since leveled a sorc alt and I had the opposite experience. Though it is maybe a bit harder from about 1-25 because the limitation of spell ability is a challenge that has to be overcome, once you can move past crystal shards being your primary means of dmg output, get the defensive capabilities of things like boundless storms, bound armor etc, the dmg output of things like "wall of <destruction staff type>", liquid lightning, as well as pets with heals etc? sorc is one of the easiest, most face roll classes in the game

Beardimus · March 2018

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

better defense and better survivability/sustain? are you joking? YOu mention dodge roll as if it's OP--it's not. Anyone who misuses it, abuses it, or even just uses it excessively is going to find themselves out of resources with which to actually deal damage.

Go level up a stamblade, don't minmax using established player guides , and try to fight any experienced dragonknight, templar, or sorcerer to duel with.. Let me know how it goes.

They all do massive damage, have ridiculous defense boosts, and massive amount of sustain in terms of health and resource recovery. All of this on excessively effective damaging abilities, usually including aoe damage or an added defensive buff/offensive debuff.

As someone who mains a stamblade that's not just following a "meta' build put together by some youtuber, for a couple years now.. I can state with confidence that objectively it as such: The scales are finaly starting to find balance. Nightblades actually feel viable alongside the other class options-- They don't just die if a dk looks at them funny in pvp, and as such are actually starting be viable outside of PVE glass cannon.

Even in a pve environment the "glass" part is shoved down the players throat, while the "cannon" aspect is really only there if you're very well practiced and experienced. This means good at weaving, animation cancelling, and in general have a mastery over the game, nightblade abilities in particular... Whereas templar, dk, and sorc are basically faceroll once you get the "right" gear, as well as most of the proper morphs and skill unlocks. That being said, I'm not just patting myself on the back-- I haven't mastered the game by far. Really I struggle to sustain more than 16k dps (and even that's high/lucky numbers, usually in the 13-14 range ) on a single "Robust" target.

As an aside, go take a poll of experienced PVE'ers, which is the hardest class to beat VMA with? Most will say Nightblade. More specifically, stamblade.

@LittlePinkDot How high did you get your sorc? I played a stamblade exclusively between 2015 and 2017, and have since leveled a sorc alt and I had the opposite experience. Though it is maybe a bit harder from about 1-25 because the limitation of spell ability is a challenge that has to be overcome, once you can move past crystal shards being your primary means of dmg output, get the defensive capabilities of things like boundless storms, bound armor etc, the dmg output of things like "wall of <destruction staff type>", liquid lightning, as well as pets with heals etc? sorc is one of the easiest, most face roll classes in the game

It's rare that i find a post that long that i completely disagree with every paragraph within. Gratz.

Honestly bar the skill names i almost feel like i could substitute Sorc for NB and nice versa the whole way through your post. As someone that mained a Sorc perhaps that means there is balance.

BTW first score to break 600k on console was a stamblade. The second? MagBlade....

Arguing that StamBlades aren't top right now just doesn't stack up im afraid, they are and are FOTM so everyone feels it. Sorcs have dwindled massively the last two patches in PvP, and I'm about the only DW MSorc on my platform region. Kill 20NB quests complete the fastest these days...

Jade1986 · March 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I have to agree with this, man nobody plays anything but Stam classes in pvp anymore, and for good reason.

God forbid you go into Cyrodiil with a Magic character and someone stuns you and, oh look! Your stam bar is empty cause you roll dodged once or twice. Better just bite your tongue and take what's coming.

This. I pretty much only play magicka atm, wit ha stam nb tank, but seriously, break free, then, oops, stunned again somehow, welp, better pray they just leave u alone.

Cronopoly · March 2018

The 1st year of ESO, Mag DK's in Light Armor were permablocking massive damage dealing gods. We know this. That play style was later gutted / fixed.

2nd 1/2 year - One Tamriel: Tons of STAMINA Critting PROC SETS. VIPER etc... Need not say more. Over 8 months of Stam DOMINANCE. Magicka classes forced to stack shields and go full defensive or be 1 shot in PVP. Six pages of comments and this was not mentioned.

Now:
Stam classes still have Massive Burst, but it doesn't taper over time... it's Gap, Burst, Burst, Burst, Hot, Evade, Dodgeroll....Interestingly synergizes with a Primary STAM POOL. P.S If more than one Stam class Vigor stacks, Invig pots, Rally...Literally they are the BOMB. Ranged has to send the dumb bomb. Stamina IS the ever living smart Bomb.

Magicka classes nearly forced into Zergs to survive in PVP. And SURE any Earthgore AOE Destro Ulti group is going to roll ANYONE not in the same type pre-made.

OT:
Warden is a Toolset jack of all trades Ranged/Melee made/paid for PVP and was designed as such, so we won't need to go there.

Personally:
I've relegated my Sorc to Negate Bot but that's about it. Searching for some playstyle that isn't so reliant on STAMINA to making my Sorc damn near a useless Hybrid in PVP sacrificing so much Damage. I get shacklebreaker yadda yadda...

TL:DR - STAMINA Synergizes with PVP Period for BOTH Insta Burst DAMAGE AND SURVIVAL. In PVP anyone seen as not protected by a zerg and Magicka is targeted to drain Stam asap, and is then Free AP Cryspy Original Glavored Gibblets....

Cronopoly · March 2018

krachall wrote: »

You conveniently left off magicka's biggest strength: Damage from range. Your entire argument is invalid.

I'll play:

Stamina has:

Higher burst dps on a target dummy

Magicka has:

Shields - the most powerful defense in the game
Nearly the same damage but from range
Ease of avoiding mob mechanics
Ability to roll dodge even when main attribute is completely depleted
Ability to maintain DPS despite boss movements = higher actual DPS in many fights
A cakewalk through vMA compared to any stam character

So, basically, magicka has better defense and, in some cases, better offense. And you want it buffed? ROFLMAO

Not putting words in your mouth, but in Open World PVP how many attack cycles does that RANGE advantage last typically? One second at most....And typically a Magica class will at best tickle most stamina classes prior to the Gap Closer...

griffkhalifa · March 2018

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

To postulate that shields are a better defense mechanism than dodge roll in 2018 is just unabashed bias. Shields barely do their job 1v1; against multiple attackers thry do not scale at all. Dodge roll, on the other hand, mitigates all incoming damage to 0 regardless of the number of attackers.

I never argued 1 was better than the other. I simply said dodge roll doesn't need a hard counter and shields were completely different. You not able to read or am I being unclear?

Just ignore him and he'll go away. It's unfortunate there's a vocal minority that just want to complain because they can't L2P, but if we ignore their posts they will go away.

King_Thelon · March 2018

.

SoLooney · March 2018

Illurian wrote: »

Do you trial at all? Magicka (read: ranged) DDs will always get more spots than stamina purely because of the fact that they have ranged capability.

not really, besides vas hm and hm vmol, its actually more stam dominant, but ranged magicka will never be out of style, esp with magblades pulling such high numbers single target

to the op, cant beat em, join em

pvpers like you like to think theyre in the center of the universe

xeNNNNN · March 2018

Hurricane needs to be nerfed into the ground, implosion should have a different effect for stam users (its far too powerful in non-CP and CP PvP scenarios for stambuilds). Most of the time If theres a stam sorc in BGs I will either just go AFK or stay away from them. I cannot be bothered too fight someone with bleeds + hurricane and killing me off of a 5k implosion proc. Go to hell.

The dodge mechanics in the game need to be reworked so that it doesnt make you near unkillable, hello stamblades.

Incap is meh just block it or roll dodge yourself.

Bleeds are fine in CP because they can be dealt with through CP. BGs however they are everywhere nobody plays without them, boring tedious and tiresome. Just make it so they only ignore a % of armor and shields, instead of all mitigation.

Aliyavana · March 2018

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Hurricane needs to be nerfed into the ground, implosion should have a different effect for stam users (its far too powerful in non-CP and CP PvP scenarios for stambuilds). Most of the time If theres a stam sorc in BGs I will either just go AFK or stay away from them. I cannot be bothered too fight someone with bleeds + hurricane and killing me off of a 5k implosion proc. Go to hell.

The dodge mechanics in the game need to be reworked so that it doesnt make you near unkillable, hello stamblades.

Incap is meh just block it or roll dodge yourself.

Bleeds are fine in CP because they can be dealt with through CP. BGs however they are everywhere nobody plays without them, boring tedious and tiresome. Just make it so they only ignore a % of armor and shields, instead of all mitigation.

No nerfs to hurricane... it already tickles

technohic · March 2018

Need to not nerf anything. Magicka needs more ways to deal with roots, snares, and stuns rather than all of it coming from their weak pool. A lot of power is diverted from sets to have to go defense and the off pool or be CCed to death. That’s why magicka shines in zergs as it’s less of an issue there.

Also would love to see more magicka weapon options. I almost feel magicka staffs are what it would be like if stamina just had 2 different bow skill lines to chose from. There should be melee magicka weapons to match magicka melee classes with at least one kind offering 2 weapon slots. Used to be that you could use dual wield but it got nerfed as far as boosting spell damage and now we also rely more heavily on heavy attacks to manage resources since Morrowind. So again; magicka has to sacrifice damage for sustain.