Why are we Still Playing One Stamriel?

Vaoh

One interesting thing worth mentioning.... back when Mag Sorc was OP, the main criticism was about how boring a Sorc v Sorc duel was. They would go on for a long time until one Sorc made a mistake and died.

Nowadays I see the exact same thing with all Stam builds. Just yesterday I watched a duel that lasted nearly 10min between a Stamplar and Stam DK. Their health bars never fell below half, and neither were even using the 1H/S Ult. Finally the Stam DK made almost every mistake imagineable and died.

SanTii.92

A complete rework of Winter's Embrace skill line.

Edit, wrong thread lol

MLGProPlayer

Balance is actually pretty decent now. Magicka warden, DK, and templar just need a boost in DPS, but especially warden (NB and sorc are fine).

We're finally seeing both magicka and stamina used together in trials.

Vaoh

SanTii.92 wrote: »

A complete rework of Winter's Embrace skill line.

Edit, wrong thread lol

You actually confused me for a sec because I was just on that thread xD

King_Thelon

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Balance is actually pretty decent now. Magicka warden, DK, and templar just need a boost in DPS, but especially warden (NB and sorc are fine).

We're finally seeing both magicka and stamina used together in trials.

You should step into PvP once in a while, friend. stam / mag both being in trials is a pretty low bar for balance

josiahva

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

We've been playing One Stamriel for a year and a half. The balance in your game has reached meme proportions matched only by incoherent decisions and an abyss of communication on the matter.


Stamina has:


Better burst damage (dawnbreaker is AoE with no delay, meteor is AoE with delay. Plus stam gets ultimates like Incap)

Better mobility (both types of NB's aside, snare removal, speed pots and sprint make all stam builds more mobile than any mag build)

Better survivability (heavy armour, dodge roll)

Better Heals over Time (vigor)

Better Damage over Time (bleeds)

Better AoE Damage (hurricane, spin to win are miles ahead of magician equivalents like boundless storm / pulsar)

Better Damage Sets (sets like Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager have no Magicka equivalent)

Access to Spammable Gap Closers (which can no longer miss and ignore the Z axis, lol)

Access to Major Evasion (lol)


Magicka has:


Better Raid Healing (hope you've got that Templar / Warden levelled)

Access to Damage Shields (which don't last their duration, don't scale vs multiple opponents and have hard counters like Shieldbreaker and Shattering Blows)


Solutions


Do not remove any of Stam's capabilities. Instead, add the following to Magicka:

- A Magicka morph of Dawnbreaker

- Easy access to snare removal, HoTs, bleeds, evasion and gap closers

- Increase the innate resistance on Light Armour

- Buff Pulsar

- Change Shieldbreaker to only proc on Heavy Attacks, add an internal cool down or introduce an equivalent against Stam builds)

- Introduce an equivalent of Shattering Blows that affects Stamina builds, or rework Shattering Blows completely

- Introduce better Magicka sets (equivalents of Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager, etc)

Dawnbreaker is a cleave AoE...while Meteor can be cast from a safe distance...not even comparable.
Stamina builds are melee classes...they NEED better mobility...besides, you are forgetting that magicka sorcs have the BEST MOBILITY OF ANY CLASS
Magicka classes have better survivability through shields and easy healing...I always have a much easier time on magicka builds for this very reason than stam builds in vMA...besides HA is NOT exclusive to stam builds, I have several heavy armor magicka builds
Stam builds do NOT have better heals over time...thats ridiculous. Healing springs can stack 3 times, rapid regen, AND healing ward all from just the resto staff skill line.
It is true that the stam AoEs tend to hit harder than magicka equivalents...but both those AoEs require proximity to the enemy...stam AoEs that dont(such as endless hail) dont hit any harder.
Spammable gap closers are accessible to certain magicka builds as well...the templar charge(is it toppling charge that is magicka based?) DK's chains, Nightblade's teleport strike, etc.
Major Evasion is accessible ONLY to med armor builds...and in PvP at least, those are few and far between. If you really want major evasion as a magicka build...craft some specter's eye gear...in heavy armor for "better survivability"

Spectre's Eye Set

LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

(2 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance

(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka

(4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health

(5 items) When you cast a Magicka ability you gain Major Evasion for 3 seconds, increasing your dodge chance by 15%. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

50% uptime on a magicka class in heavy armor isnt anything to sneeze at.

Anotherone773

OneTamriel is garbage but not for the reasons that you are implying.

Lynx7386

King_Thelon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Balance is actually pretty decent now. Magicka warden, DK, and templar just need a boost in DPS, but especially warden (NB and sorc are fine).

We're finally seeing both magicka and stamina used together in trials.

You should step into PvP once in a while, friend. stam / mag both being in trials is a pretty low bar for balance

This kind of approach is the problem with this game and these forums; all the PvP players think pve doesn't matter, and all the pve players think PvP doesn't matter. Far too much bias for anyone to make reasonable judgements about balance.

GreenhaloX

Other than being a pain in the ass to fight/duel a sorc or mag toon that spams Empowered Ward and/or Annulment (whatever the morph), you're pretty much stuck with only two races for mag toon; High Elf or Breton. Well, I guess you can also mess around and tweak a Dark Elf in one. Ehh, we just have more flexibility to create different variety of stam toons with all the other classes. Plus, a stamsorc is nice and brutal.

Minno

josiahva wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

We've been playing One Stamriel for a year and a half. The balance in your game has reached meme proportions matched only by incoherent decisions and an abyss of communication on the matter.


Stamina has:


Better burst damage (dawnbreaker is AoE with no delay, meteor is AoE with delay. Plus stam gets ultimates like Incap)

Better mobility (both types of NB's aside, snare removal, speed pots and sprint make all stam builds more mobile than any mag build)

Better survivability (heavy armour, dodge roll)

Better Heals over Time (vigor)

Better Damage over Time (bleeds)

Better AoE Damage (hurricane, spin to win are miles ahead of magician equivalents like boundless storm / pulsar)

Better Damage Sets (sets like Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager have no Magicka equivalent)

Access to Spammable Gap Closers (which can no longer miss and ignore the Z axis, lol)

Access to Major Evasion (lol)


Magicka has:


Better Raid Healing (hope you've got that Templar / Warden levelled)

Access to Damage Shields (which don't last their duration, don't scale vs multiple opponents and have hard counters like Shieldbreaker and Shattering Blows)


Solutions


Do not remove any of Stam's capabilities. Instead, add the following to Magicka:

- A Magicka morph of Dawnbreaker

- Easy access to snare removal, HoTs, bleeds, evasion and gap closers

- Increase the innate resistance on Light Armour

- Buff Pulsar

- Change Shieldbreaker to only proc on Heavy Attacks, add an internal cool down or introduce an equivalent against Stam builds)

- Introduce an equivalent of Shattering Blows that affects Stamina builds, or rework Shattering Blows completely

- Introduce better Magicka sets (equivalents of Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager, etc)

Dawnbreaker is a cleave AoE...while Meteor can be cast from a safe distance...not even comparable.
Stamina builds are melee classes...they NEED better mobility...besides, you are forgetting that magicka sorcs have the BEST MOBILITY OF ANY CLASS
Magicka classes have better survivability through shields and easy healing...I always have a much easier time on magicka builds for this very reason than stam builds in vMA...besides HA is NOT exclusive to stam builds, I have several heavy armor magicka builds
Stam builds do NOT have better heals over time...thats ridiculous. Healing springs can stack 3 times, rapid regen, AND healing ward all from just the resto staff skill line.
It is true that the stam AoEs tend to hit harder than magicka equivalents...but both those AoEs require proximity to the enemy...stam AoEs that dont(such as endless hail) dont hit any harder.
Spammable gap closers are accessible to certain magicka builds as well...the templar charge(is it toppling charge that is magicka based?) DK's chains, Nightblade's teleport strike, etc.
Major Evasion is accessible ONLY to med armor builds...and in PvP at least, those are few and far between. If you really want major evasion as a magicka build...craft some specter's eye gear...in heavy armor for "better survivability"

Spectre's Eye Set

LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

(2 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance

(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka

(4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health

(5 items) When you cast a Magicka ability you gain Major Evasion for 3 seconds, increasing your dodge chance by 15%. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

50% uptime on a magicka class in heavy armor isnt anything to sneeze at.

A great set, but heavy armor spectre is not the right way to use that set.
Light armor spectres is more efficient:
- you can get your dmg stats without giving up your newborn son (45% crit, 4k penetration)
- you still get a mag shield with harness mag. Lets you drop impen for well fitted to boost your dodge roll efficacy (reduced cost per dodge roll),
- DK/Templars have more spell resists making the 2 pc stat more attractive to balance out your armor (especially since light armor doesnt have the best physical resists.
- cost reduction of light and regen lets you swap around stats to find what you need to survive/dmg.

But of course, compared to stamina players, shuffle is one bar slot and grants immunity to snares/immobilze effects. One ability provides better utility than a 5pc set. Honestly I wish major evasion ONLY came in 5pc sets, but granted like 30-35% dodge chance with shuffle remaining at 15% but changed to minor evasion. That would promote this set, and others like gossamer/hist bark, to be more useful for players looking to add defense to their builds but don't want to slot wizard reposte.

Dracane

The only dangerous people running around, are mostly stamina players. Stamina has everything, but OP stated that correctly already.

I see many magicka specs as well, but they are not only harmless (except for magicka templars), but also less frustrating to deal with. Bad stamina players are just as bad as bad magicka players. But I feel like, that the power ceiling for stamina is significantly higher and easier to reach. Meaning, stamina has much more potential in pvp than magicka has, and actually even in pve, because they pull the best dps if they are allowed to.

Gap closers should have an increasing cost for spamming and I also think that it's not fair, that stamina can easily utilize the best magicka support spells without the need to worry, while magicka can't even dare to dodge once as otherwise they can't break free anymore. If at least one of these things is looked at, there may be balance. I don't want to get started on how braindead OP stamina burst is.

Minno

Lynx7386 wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Balance is actually pretty decent now. Magicka warden, DK, and templar just need a boost in DPS, but especially warden (NB and sorc are fine).

We're finally seeing both magicka and stamina used together in trials.

You should step into PvP once in a while, friend. stam / mag both being in trials is a pretty low bar for balance

This kind of approach is the problem with this game and these forums; all the PvP players think pve doesn't matter, and all the pve players think PvP doesn't matter. Far too much bias for anyone to make reasonable judgements about balance.

I agree with this statement. I think we can suggest changes that benefit both without nerf hammers.

Though, I think the game is more heavily balanced with PVE in mind than PVE players want to admit (regen changes, PVP abilities nerfed to make PVE abilities better, alliance war AP rank changes to make it easier to get vigor/caltrops, etc)

Minno

Dracane wrote: »

The only dangerous people running around, are mostly stamina players. Stamina has everything, but OP stated that correctly already.

I see many magicka specs as well, but they are not only harmless (except for magicka templars), but also less frustrating to deal with. Bad stamina players are just as bad as bad magicka players. But I feel like, that the power ceiling for stamina is significantly higher and easier to reach. Meaning, stamina has much more potential in pvp than magicka has, and actually even in pve, because they pull the best dps if they are allowed to.

Gap closers should have an increasing cost for spamming and I also think that it's not fair, that stamina can easily utilize the best magicka support spells without the need to worry, while magicka can't even dare to dodge once as otherwise they can't break free anymore. If at least one of these things is looked at, there may be balance. I don't want to get started on how braindead OP stamina burst is.

Both medium/light armor should have dodge roll reductions (they are significantly lighter than heavy armor in weight). But medium should get crit resists to counter the fact their don't have a shield/transmutation. Flipside, light armor should have a way to remove snares/immobile to counter the fact medium armor has dodge chance built into a snare removal toon.

Just following the tree philosophy that Mage/Fighters guild trees have; similar effects but different ways to gather those stats.

jcaceresw

I would like a equivalent to Vigor for magicka users. That way I can get rid of my resto staff on my second bar.

Dracane

Minno wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

The only dangerous people running around, are mostly stamina players. Stamina has everything, but OP stated that correctly already.

I see many magicka specs as well, but they are not only harmless (except for magicka templars), but also less frustrating to deal with. Bad stamina players are just as bad as bad magicka players. But I feel like, that the power ceiling for stamina is significantly higher and easier to reach. Meaning, stamina has much more potential in pvp than magicka has, and actually even in pve, because they pull the best dps if they are allowed to.

Gap closers should have an increasing cost for spamming and I also think that it's not fair, that stamina can easily utilize the best magicka support spells without the need to worry, while magicka can't even dare to dodge once as otherwise they can't break free anymore. If at least one of these things is looked at, there may be balance. I don't want to get started on how braindead OP stamina burst is.

Both medium/light armor should have dodge roll reductions (they are significantly lighter than heavy armor in weight). But medium should get crit resists to counter the fact their don't have a shield/transmutation. Flipside, light armor should have a way to remove snares/immobile to counter the fact medium armor has dodge chance built into a snare removal toon.

Just following the tree philosophy that Mage/Fighters guild trees have; similar effects but different ways to gather those stats.

Totally agree.

GazettE

Now it called "One Stamriel"

Last time it was "Elder Skirt Online"

LOL

Sevn

Lynx7386 wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Balance is actually pretty decent now. Magicka warden, DK, and templar just need a boost in DPS, but especially warden (NB and sorc are fine).

We're finally seeing both magicka and stamina used together in trials.

You should step into PvP once in a while, friend. stam / mag both being in trials is a pretty low bar for balance

This kind of approach is the problem with this game and these forums; all the PvP players think pve doesn't matter, and all the pve players think PvP doesn't matter. Far too much bias for anyone to make reasonable judgements about balance.

Truth. I think this is the main thing about Zos that I find disturbing. I no longer blame the players for attacking each other, nope the blame lies solely on Zos for this HUGE rift in the player base. They'd rather the community constantly rip and [snip] at each other than just do what so many have found to be a better solution, balance them separately because they are two very DIFFERENT communities with very DIFFERENT goals.

This whole we want it to be a seamless transition is nonsense as you use very different tactics and gear for PvP than you'd use for pve content. If you can't do both well, which they have failed to do thus far make a decision and get rid of one or the other. Either go full PvP so casuals can find a more fitting game or go full pve so pvper's can stop feeling like the redheaded stepchild and find a game that suits them.

I'd prefer if they kept both and just balance them separately, but they seem determined to burn the community to the ground to save face.

[Edited for profanity]

Violynne

waitwhat wrote: »

Prior to Morrowind, magicka outclassed stamina on all fronts.

We can close the discussion now. This statement is fact.

I can't express my enjoyment enough of how viable and fun it is to finally play a stamBlade.

Sorcs who haven't adapted: this is only a small percentage of how bad it was for us. I certainly hope sorcs never have to go through what stamBlades did, but perhaps it's time to stop mashing the same spells repeatedly and actually take the skills to the battlefield, not the button mash pattern.

Just advice. See you out there (but you won't see me).

The_Brosteen

GazettE wrote: »

Now it called "One Stamriel"

Last time it was "Elder Skirt Online"

LOL

Close, people actually used to call it elder robes online.

True story

Cloudless

Sheesh.

Malmai

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

We've been playing One Stamriel for a year and a half. The balance in your game has reached meme proportions matched only by incoherent decisions and an abyss of communication on the matter.


Stamina has:


Better burst damage (dawnbreaker is AoE with no delay, meteor is AoE with delay. Plus stam gets ultimates like Incap)

Better mobility (both types of NB's aside, snare removal, speed pots and sprint make all stam builds more mobile than any mag build)

Better survivability (heavy armour, dodge roll)

Better Heals over Time (vigor)

Better Damage over Time (bleeds)

Better AoE Damage (hurricane, spin to win are miles ahead of magician equivalents like boundless storm / pulsar)

Better Damage Sets (sets like Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager have no Magicka equivalent)

Access to Spammable Gap Closers (which can no longer miss and ignore the Z axis, lol)

Access to Major Evasion (lol)


Magicka has:


Better Raid Healing (hope you've got that Templar / Warden levelled)

Access to Damage Shields (which don't last their duration, don't scale vs multiple opponents and have hard counters like Shieldbreaker and Shattering Blows)


Solutions


Do not remove any of Stam's capabilities. Instead, add the following to Magicka:

- A Magicka morph of Dawnbreaker

- Easy access to snare removal, HoTs, bleeds, evasion and gap closers

- Increase the innate resistance on Light Armour

- Buff Pulsar

- Change Shieldbreaker to only proc on Heavy Attacks, add an internal cool down or introduce an equivalent against Stam builds)

- Introduce an equivalent of Shattering Blows that affects Stamina builds, or rework Shattering Blows completely

- Introduce better Magicka sets (equivalents of Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager, etc)

Tears.

Ihatenightblades

But the facts dont match your data. Every decent pve raid group brings in half stam half magic so as far as damage output you are wrong they dont do as much single target but they do more aoe thats a fact especially mag sorc.

Now pvp i would say they both have pros and cons and to say stam is superior just flat out is wrong sorry. Who said mag cant go heavy armor? Have u fought a heavy armor mag dk 1v1? It will destroy and stam class in the game.

Vigor is nice but can also be countered buddy things like reverb bash are so op right now but if you got shields reverb is nothing to worry about.

Vigor and rally is nice but if you too slow at applying shields every 6 seconds thats your fault i can shield stack forever on my light armor mages and if you having trouble with shields then i suggest dump 23% into bastion it helps a lot.

King_Thelon

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Vigor and rally is nice but if you too slow at applying shields every 6 seconds thats your fault i can shield stack forever on my light armor mages and if you having trouble with shields then i suggest dump 23% into bastion it helps a lot.

Ya please teach me how to MagSorc.

Murador178

jcaceresw wrote: »

I would like a equivalent to Vigor for magicka users. That way I can get rid of my resto staff on my second bar.

Id like rallye on the fighters guild so i can finally get rid of 2h - but i agree both things would greatly increase build variety

Murador178

Minno wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Balance is actually pretty decent now. Magicka warden, DK, and templar just need a boost in DPS, but especially warden (NB and sorc are fine).

We're finally seeing both magicka and stamina used together in trials.

You should step into PvP once in a while, friend. stam / mag both being in trials is a pretty low bar for balance

This kind of approach is the problem with this game and these forums; all the PvP players think pve doesn't matter, and all the pve players think PvP doesn't matter. Far too much bias for anyone to make reasonable judgements about balance.

I agree with this statement. I think we can suggest changes that benefit both without nerf hammers.

Though, I think the game is more heavily balanced with PVE in mind than PVE players want to admit (regen changes, PVP abilities nerfed to make PVE abilities better, alliance war AP rank changes to make it easier to get vigor/caltrops, etc)

WTB cheap undaunted

Xvorg

Drachenfier wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Funny that it is actually the other way around. There are more and better mag dots, they have better sustain (Ele Drain) and more defense (they can better facetank with spammable burst heals and shields and they have better defense in outnumbered situations as well with Riposte and Mistform).

Your post is so biased it's outrageous. You probably have never played anything beside magsorc if you think that the game would be balanced with your suggestions.

Yea, that's why there's so many mag classes in pvp

I can literally count on one hand the amount of mag players I see on any given night in BG.

Magplar is currently the build I see most in BGs other than Stamsorcs on Xbox NA. I also see lots of magsorcs and magDKs.

There are plenty of magicka builds in PvP and in BGs specifically on my platform.

Over the last three nights I've seen one MagDK, and it's always the same guy. Haven't seen a single Magplar or Magsorc. All stamina variants. Generally, the only mag class I see is NB.

In what platform do you play?

Murador178

Vaoh wrote: »

One interesting thing worth mentioning.... back when Mag Sorc was OP, the main criticism was about how boring a Sorc v Sorc duel was. They would go on for a long time until one Sorc made a mistake and died.

Nowadays I see the exact same thing with all Stam builds. Just yesterday I watched a duel that lasted nearly 10min between a Stamplar and Stam DK. Their health bars never fell below half, and neither were even using the 1H/S Ult. Finally the Stam DK made almost every mistake imagineable and died.

Mag classes still do the same in duels. Over 10min duels are rly not rare at all - tbh they are the standard in duels. In a 1v1 all defences are too strong atm: killing a 3 shield attro mine sorc with 50k magicka and riposte/shadowrend isnt easy either. Or a strong magplar/permablock mDK, mag warden or a kiting mag nb.

I think sorc has still the longest average duel length with a high shield build tbh - as long as u dont reference a heavy armor snb defensive ult(trees, sword and board ult, vamp ult, temp tank ult etc) duel with both guys running trollking and 30k hp.

Kuramas9tails

Mageblade in PVP is swell.

kadar

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel
Stamina has:

Better burst damage (dawnbreaker is AoE with no delay, meteor is AoE with delay. Plus stam gets ultimates like Incap)

Better mobility (both types of NB's aside, snare removal, speed pots and sprint make all stam builds more mobile than any mag build)

Better survivability (heavy armour, dodge roll)

Better Heals over Time (vigor)

Better Damage over Time (bleeds)

Better AoE Damage (hurricane, spin to win are miles ahead of magician equivalents like boundless storm / pulsar)

Better Damage Sets (sets like Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager have no Magicka equivalent)

Access to Spammable Gap Closers (which can no longer miss and ignore the Z axis, lol)

Access to Major Evasion (lol)

Thelly your bias is showing, dog....

Heavy armor, dodge roll, Block, sprint, DBoS, Gap closers, Maj. Evaision, snare removal, speed pots? All things accessible and used by Magicka builds. Side-bar, my mNB out-bursts any stamina build using that delayed Meteor AOE... (Meteor > Fear > Bow proc > Impale).

You're also intentionally not mentioning tons of tools in the Magicka toolkit. Healing? Resto abilities, path, burning embers, a Templar, Magden Trees, Pollen, ect. AOE, DoT? Destro Ult, Blockade, Sleet, Prox, ect.

And sets? I don't even know. How many Magicka sets are there with no Stamina equivalent? I bestow unto you Magicka Selenes...that way no one will use yet another monster set.

Murador178

The_Outsider wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel
Stamina has:

Better burst damage (dawnbreaker is AoE with no delay, meteor is AoE with delay. Plus stam gets ultimates like Incap)

Better mobility (both types of NB's aside, snare removal, speed pots and sprint make all stam builds more mobile than any mag build)

Better survivability (heavy armour, dodge roll)

Better Heals over Time (vigor)

Better Damage over Time (bleeds)

Better AoE Damage (hurricane, spin to win are miles ahead of magician equivalents like boundless storm / pulsar)

Better Damage Sets (sets like Selene's, 7th Legion, Ravager have no Magicka equivalent)

Access to Spammable Gap Closers (which can no longer miss and ignore the Z axis, lol)

Access to Major Evasion (lol)

Thelly your bias is showing, dog....

Heavy armor, dodge roll, Block, sprint, DBoS, Gap closers, Maj. Evaision, snare removal, speed pots? All things accessible and used by Magicka builds. Side-bar, my mNB out-bursts any stamina build using that delayed Meteor AOE... (Meteor > Fear > Bow proc > Impale).

You're also intentionally not mentioning tons of tools in the Magicka toolkit. Healing? Resto abilities, path, burning embers, a Templar, Magden Trees, Pollen, ect. AOE, DoT? Destro Ult, Blockade, Sleet, Prox, ect.

And sets? I don't even know. How many Magicka sets are there with no Stamina equivalent? I bestow unto you Magicka Selenes...that way no one will use yet another monster set.

Skoria is far better then selene - zaan aswell... And they are both magicka...