Should they remove the attribute bonuses from races to encourage more diversity in class making?

cmetzger93 · March 2018

Yes

It puts new players off from creating what they really want to because veteran players tell them they won’t be as viable. It’s sad really. “Play as you want” is often misinterpreted. I would like for them to go

ANGEL_BtVS · March 2018

Yes

Yes, because Lore. Shalidor, a Nord, was a more powerful mage than 99% of the entirety of the Altmeri. Shalidor is part of ESO Lore. I want to play as Shalidor because the Lore says it's possible. I, the player-character, should not be hindered because the rest of my Nord brethren aren't as capable as I at being a master wizard. Is Shalidor an exception? Sure (along with the powerful mages among Ysgramor's 500 companions, but hey). But you, as the player-character, should be the exception as well as you are (well, should be) as unique as it gets.

Amoureros · March 2018

Yes

I want magicka bosmer

OrdoHermetica · March 2018

No

I actually think that having racial differences can help make "non-meta" builds more interesting and better able to fill niche roles. For example, a Bosmer magsorc may not have quite the raw numbers as a High Elf, but they're also a whole lot better at hiding (useful for any class, especially in PvP), more resistant to some of the most common types of physical damage, and - as a bonus - have fantastic Stamina recovery, meaning they can run more often and break free more often than min-maxed magicka builds. This matters a fair amount in PvE and even more in PvP. On the flip side, an Altmer stamina DPSer may not pull the same numbers or sustain as a Redguard, for example, but they'll be able to delve into magicka utility spells a bit more fully than a stamina race could, and have those same utility spells be more effective as well.

If you get rid of racial passives, meanwhile, min-maxing becomes pretty much absolute. There's no reason to experiment with branching out of the "meta" - if no one gets stamina recovery by default, for example, then it makes sense for everyone to go all in on magicka stacking. Obviously plenty of people do that anyway, but the option to branch out is built in with racial passives in a way that wouldn't be easily replicated if you removed them.

Kuramas9tails · March 2018

Yes

Destruent wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

difference is not as big as you may think it is...

The difference IS big if guilds wont even let you in a craglorn vet trial based on your paired race and build.

Those passives are impactfull for like 5% of the playerbase (if not even less) and for only a handfull of guilds on each server. For every other guild/player it's more like "this is meta, i only want meta, but i have no clue what it really does."
Excluding someone from craglorn trials (if not going for highscore...) bc of race has nothing to do with strong passives but with lots of stupidity.
I mean, just look at it from that way:
1. not enough DPS --> race won't change that bc it's a percentage-based buff
2. enough DPS --> why even care if not going for No.1-score

You don't take into account the resource management that also comes along with it which can = less DPS if you are straight up heavy attacking for resource back as opposed to doing more strong DPS moves. My Mageblade Khajiit had 0% magic regeneration while my Altmer has 9% regeneration PLUS 10% more magic PLUS 4% more in destruction. Add that altogether, it equals a lot of missing DPS between an Altmer and a Khajiit. Believe me, I have tried BOTH. I have ran VMA on BOTH. It is a noticeably big difference between killing NPCS when they are set on a timer and you now have 2 swarms of npc instead of taking on one and killing in time before the second swarm.

You WILL notice a difference when it really matters. Especially in VMA when you have to rely HEAVILY on your own skills and management.

Luckylancer · March 2018

No

Es games have racial passives. Keep it that way. Every race should have general pros and cons. None of them should work in ultra nieche situations and none of them should be overshadowed by another race.

Altmer vs breton is brutal. Altmer wins in every way.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2018

Other

Attribute bonuses should remain but they should be a static bonus like many other things in the game. This would open the game up to more variety.

smacky · March 2018

No

Marginis wrote: »

"Oh, just ignore it, you don't need to be the best to play the game" you might say. Try saying that again next time there's a magicka based tank using dual wield and medium armor and only uses heals in your group. You don't have to be the best right?

I have to disagree with the argument you are putting forward here. This is a different issue, and it is an issue that I think needs to be deal with.

What you have described is someone Queueing as a Tank when they are not.
Dual Wield is not a tanking setup, 1 hand and Shield is as it has the abilities a tank requires to be successful.

It really does not matter if you are a StamSorc / MagSorc / StamBlade / MagBlade / StamWarden / MagWarden etc etc etc.

Any race can play these roles, and while some races will perform better becuase of racial bonuses, unless you are doing endgame content, if you want to play as an Org Mage, then it can be done quite successfully and will happily survive most of the Vet Dungeons, and some of those on HM.

Queuing as a Tank for a Vet Dungeon when you are not setup as a Tank is plain wrong, and that is what you have described, and it is something I think there should be a system in place to deal with.

Destruent · March 2018

No

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Doesn't matter if you are for or against the suggestion, please don't come in here and spread misinformation that race doesn't matter (some players who are new to the game might believe you). It matters a lot, especially in PvP it's a game changer (sadly).

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

difference is not as big as you may think it is...

The difference IS big if guilds wont even let you in a craglorn vet trial based on your paired race and build.

Those passives are impactfull for like 5% of the playerbase (if not even less) and for only a handfull of guilds on each server. For every other guild/player it's more like "this is meta, i only want meta, but i have no clue what it really does."
Excluding someone from craglorn trials (if not going for highscore...) bc of race has nothing to do with strong passives but with lots of stupidity.
I mean, just look at it from that way:
1. not enough DPS --> race won't change that bc it's a percentage-based buff
2. enough DPS --> why even care if not going for No.1-score

You don't take into account the resource management that also comes along with it which can = less DPS if you are straight up heavy attacking for resource back as opposed to doing more strong DPS moves. My Mageblade Khajiit had 0% magic regeneration while my Altmer has 9% regeneration PLUS 10% more magic PLUS 4% more in destruction. Add that altogether, it equals a lot of missing DPS between an Altmer and a Khajiit. Believe me, I have tried BOTH. I have ran VMA on BOTH. It is a noticeably big difference between killing NPCS when they are set on a timer and you now have 2 swarms of npc instead of taking on one and killing in time before the second swarm.

You WILL notice a difference when it really matters. Especially in VMA when you have to rely HEAVILY on your own skills and management.

But you guys did notice, that this thread is about the Max-Stat/attribute-bonus-passives?

JobooAGS · March 2018

I don't care

Luckylancer wrote: »

Es games have racial passives. Keep it that way. Every race should have general pros and cons. None of them should work in ultra nieche situations and none of them should be overshadowed by another race.

Altmer vs breton is brutal. Altmer wins in every way.

In previous es games, sure there were racial passives, but as you got to endgame, they became meaningless as either the difference between races was insignificant when you got to endgame or there were hard caps to skills. Here in eso at endgame, race is important

driosketch · March 2018

I have 15 characters, at least one of each race, at least a magicka and a stamina version of each of 5 classes. Except for my main who is a magplar Redguard, all my alts paired with a build related to their racial passives. I defy you to tell me my roster is not diverse. If you want to roll 5 Altmer and 5 Reguards because you feel "you have to," that's on you.

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

difference is not as big as you may think it is...

The difference IS big if guilds wont even let you in a craglorn vet trial based on your paired race and build.

I've run my main through vet trials and DLC dungeons despite my mismatch. You need to put the work in to become a strong player, and you need to put "face time" in running pledges and group events with your guild so they start to recognize that. Eventually, you start progression runs or you get to sub for a regular who's out. Assuming you're actually a better than decent player, this is what will happen. And if it doesn't, you need to find a different guild.

Marginis · March 2018

Yes

Destruent wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Obviously you don't want to simply get rid of the bonuses, or make everyone's the same, but we want to do something to encourage a variety of playstyles with a variety of characters, I think. I think it's pretty boring, personally, when most tanks are Redguard Dragonknights, and you never get to see something like a Khajiit Nightblade tank. And then you could do other stuff, like a tribal shaman theme Orc healer or something. The way the system is set up now discourages that.

Then just play it that way if you want to. Your race don't make or break a build, but the player behind the character does.
Most tanks are (atleast iirc) are imperial (for stats) or argonian (for sustain). You can play as a khajiit, too. It's not that big of a deal, woeler for example does it pretty succesfully.

I used to play magplar, stamplar, tank and healer on my breton templar back in 1.5/1.6...it worked aswell...and back then races were a lot more meaningfull (especially in 1.6) than they are now.
But anyway...you don't want to make a choice by choosing your race, i always liked it as a part of min/maxing while still being able to play anything else with that character although it's not min/maxed.

You can do pretty much whatever you want. However, by doing so you will be at a disadvantage. For some things, like using stamina abilities on a healer, it makes sense to put you at a disadvantage. Choosing a certain race I feel should not put you a a disadvantage, at least combat-wise, no matter how small.

The point was not that you can't and should be able to, but that the game discourages it and it shouldn't.

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

I actually think that having racial differences can help make "non-meta" builds more interesting and better able to fill niche roles. For example, a Bosmer magsorc may not have quite the raw numbers as a High Elf, but they're also a whole lot better at hiding (useful for any class, especially in PvP), more resistant to some of the most common types of physical damage, and - as a bonus - have fantastic Stamina recovery, meaning they can run more often and break free more often than min-maxed magicka builds. This matters a fair amount in PvE and even more in PvP. On the flip side, an Altmer stamina DPSer may not pull the same numbers or sustain as a Redguard, for example, but they'll be able to delve into magicka utility spells a bit more fully than a stamina race could, and have those same utility spells be more effective as well.

If you get rid of racial passives, meanwhile, min-maxing becomes pretty much absolute. There's no reason to experiment with branching out of the "meta" - if no one gets stamina recovery by default, for example, then it makes sense for everyone to go all in on magicka stacking. Obviously plenty of people do that anyway, but the option to branch out is built in with racial passives in a way that would be easily replicated if you removed them.

Actually quite a fair point. I agree with this but think that the difficulty of navigating the meta, ever changing and imbalanced as it is, is far too high to see the creative builds as a significant positive to these racial bonuses. That is to say, the barrier to entry for doing unique and creative stuff is too big. Perhaps ZOS could change the passives or the way the meta is set up (a monstrous undertaking, but a solution nonetheless) to decrease the size of that barrier, or they could make it so the passives are more unique than just giving a plain stat boost to one of the main attributes of the game.

Luckylancer wrote: »

Es games have racial passives. Keep it that way. Every race should have general pros and cons. None of them should work in ultra nieche situations and none of them should be overshadowed by another race.

Altmer vs breton is brutal. Altmer wins in every way.

Yeah, the goal is not to have imbalance, where one race is straight up better than others. I mean, I could say that only Khajiit should be viable, but that would make the game terrible for anyone who doesn't ABSOLUTELY love cats. And you know that TES series has grown out of a lot of outdated things right? Just because the series has had something before doesn't mean it should always have it. They got rid of levitate because it allowed for more interesting game design. They got rid of gender passives because they were sexist. They even got rid of some racial things because they were unfair - remember not being able to wear boots on a beast race in TESIII? Things being eliminated or changed can be better, sometimes.

smacky wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

"Oh, just ignore it, you don't need to be the best to play the game" you might say. Try saying that again next time there's a magicka based tank using dual wield and medium armor and only uses heals in your group. You don't have to be the best right?

I have to disagree with the argument you are putting forward here. This is a different issue, and it is an issue that I think needs to be deal with.

What you have described is someone Queueing as a Tank when they are not.
Dual Wield is not a tanking setup, 1 hand and Shield is as it has the abilities a tank requires to be successful.

It really does not matter if you are a StamSorc / MagSorc / StamBlade / MagBlade / StamWarden / MagWarden etc etc etc.

Any race can play these roles, and while some races will perform better becuase of racial bonuses, unless you are doing endgame content, if you want to play as an Org Mage, then it can be done quite successfully and will happily survive most of the Vet Dungeons, and some of those on HM.

Queuing as a Tank for a Vet Dungeon when you are not setup as a Tank is plain wrong, and that is what you have described, and it is something I think there should be a system in place to deal with.

The defining characteristic of a tank is that they take damage for the rest of the team. If the tank can taunt, a la Inner Fire, they have the defining characteristic of a tank. What I was attempting to do is define someone who was a tank, just really really bad at it. I tried to portray the most extreme example, but the question is at what point do you draw the line? Is it when someone isn't using sword and shield? Is it when they have less than 30k health? Is it when they don't have a self heal? Is it when they are playing the "wrong" race? My point is that (within reason), you should be able to make just as good a tank with or without features like this. Using any tanking weapon, like a Frost staff, should be just as good as using a sword and board. Using lower health but higher other defensive stats should be just as effective. Using one race should be just as effective as another. It should just be a matter of how well you can do that, how creative a build you can come up with. You can't really do that when a certain stat you're getting from racial passives would literally never come into play ever with a certain build, like weapon crit on a magicka Khajiit.

zaria · March 2018

cmetzger93 wrote: »

It puts new players off from creating what they really want to because veteran players tell them they won’t be as viable. It’s sad really. “Play as you want” is often misinterpreted. I would like for them to go

New players are very unlikely to know who races are bis for each build in the first place.
They select an race they like then an class they like, then found they made an bad selection, now for some it don't matter they want to play orc or khajiit anyway but if you want an mage sorcerer and want to play as an elf and end up with an bosmer as they are easier to make good looking it would be serious annoying.
Worse many probably might think the race is the reason they suck but its not because they are an nord magplar but because they only do HA with ice staff.

Even more stupid ESO who is competitive multiplayer in end game has way more racial difference than Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion who was single player games with an difficulty slider except daggerfall and only Oblivion was in any way dependent on an decent build in endgame. Race was an starting bonus and that makes sense, you have an natural starting bonus because of race, at the endgame your skills will be an magnitude more important.
Males are stronger than females, nobody with any sense will argue that, now go up against an Olympic level female weightlifter

I would rather return to the starting bonuses, add an sweetener, say magic races get an +20% xp on kills with magic, add +30-50% xp buff for leveling mage guild skill line, more heroic races get an undaunted bonus and so on, it would have major impact but nothing who affect you much at cp720, outside an +500 magic for Altmer.

Current system survived beta because of soft caps, racial ultimates was removed. Then they removed soft caps, we are talking about devs who has been unable to add an reply button to mail or any sort of filter in bank, something who has been requested since beta. In game its the sort of skill level who cause you to leave group in an normal dungeon

Marginis · March 2018

Yes

zaria wrote: »

cmetzger93 wrote: »

It puts new players off from creating what they really want to because veteran players tell them they won’t be as viable. It’s sad really. “Play as you want” is often misinterpreted. I would like for them to go

New players are very unlikely to know who races are bis for each build in the first place.
They select an race they like then an class they like, then found they made an bad selection, now for some it don't matter they want to play orc or khajiit anyway but if you want an mage sorcerer and want to play as an elf and end up with an bosmer as they are easier to make good looking it would be serious annoying.
Worse many probably might think the race is the reason they suck but its not because they are an nord magplar but because they only do HA with ice staff.

Even more stupid ESO who is competitive multiplayer in end game has way more racial difference than Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion who was single player games with an difficulty slider except daggerfall and only Oblivion was in any way dependent on an decent build in endgame. Race was an starting bonus and that makes sense, you have an natural starting bonus because of race, at the endgame your skills will be an magnitude more important.
Males are stronger than females, nobody with any sense will argue that, now go up against an Olympic level female weightlifter

I would rather return to the starting bonuses, add an sweetener, say magic races get an +20% xp on kills with magic, add +30-50% xp buff for leveling mage guild skill line, more heroic races get an undaunted bonus and so on, it would have major impact but nothing who affect you much at cp720, outside an +500 magic for Altmer.

Current system survived beta because of soft caps, racial ultimates was removed. Then they removed soft caps, we are talking about devs who has been unable to add an reply button to mail or any sort of filter in bank, something who has been requested since beta. In game its the sort of skill level who cause you to leave group in an normal dungeon

While there are plenty of bad players, many due to the game's deficiencies in explaining stuff, I don't think that diminishes how endgame players discriminate for the smallest of things. Now, this is the players we're talking about, and not the game, but the game should try to discourage that, not promote it.

On another note, I like the idea of magic races getting faster magic levels and physical races getting more physical levels faster. That indicates that, while anyone can be just as great at something as anyone else, upbringing affects how easy it is for someone to do something they're used to in their culture, but makes it possible to break the mold, even if it's harder. This is pretty much what they ended up doing in TESV, where race made almost zero impact on combat late game.

You also made an important point: Previous TES games were single player. Balance didn't really matter as long as you had some basic amount of competence. ESO though, is multiplayer. So while we want it to be as much like TES as it can be, we should be sensitive to how the multiplayer dynamic changes things.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2018

No

cmetzger93 wrote: »

It puts new players off from creating what they really want to because veteran players tell them they won’t be as viable. It’s sad really. “Play as you want” is often misinterpreted. I would like for them to go

I'd say "non-meta" races are quite viable in PVP and endgame PVE content. Maybe just the top tier of PVE leaderboards where Imperial mag sorc or altmer stamplar etc will have relatively hard time competing for fastest completion time scores.

zaria · March 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

Es games have racial passives. Keep it that way. Every race should have general pros and cons. None of them should work in ultra nieche situations and none of them should be overshadowed by another race.

Altmer vs breton is brutal. Altmer wins in every way.

In previous es games, sure there were racial passives, but as you got to endgame, they became meaningless as either the difference between races was insignificant when you got to endgame or there were hard caps to skills. Here in eso at endgame, race is important

This, in earlier games race gave an fixed bonus in attributes and skills, as you leveled up this difference goes away, for one it was an static stating bonus on skill and attributes who scaled from 1-100, for the other the lower levels are easier to get.
Some who tend to play female bosmer know that you need your strength up asap as this let you carry more loot, this is primary objective even if playing an pure mage.

ESO put it in endgame as you only unlock the best racials above level 40, again its an hang over from soft caps and no reply button in mail and search in bank or shops indicates the general skill level the same way as doing an random normal and group has wiped on first trash is an bad sign. Here dungeon is wayrest 1

Marginis · March 2018

Yes

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

cmetzger93 wrote: »

It puts new players off from creating what they really want to because veteran players tell them they won’t be as viable. It’s sad really. “Play as you want” is often misinterpreted. I would like for them to go

I'd say "non-meta" races are quite viable in PVP and endgame PVE content. Maybe just the top tier of PVE leaderboards where Imperial mag sorc or altmer stamplar etc will have relatively hard time competing for fastest completion time scores.

Viable =/= Just as effective

Marginis · March 2018

Yes

Marginis wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

cmetzger93 wrote: »

It puts new players off from creating what they really want to because veteran players tell them they won’t be as viable. It’s sad really. “Play as you want” is often misinterpreted. I would like for them to go

I'd say "non-meta" races are quite viable in PVP and endgame PVE content. Maybe just the top tier of PVE leaderboards where Imperial mag sorc or altmer stamplar etc will have relatively hard time competing for fastest completion time scores.

Viable =/= Just as effective

Disallows =/= Discourages

zaria · March 2018

Marginis wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

cmetzger93 wrote: »

It puts new players off from creating what they really want to because veteran players tell them they won’t be as viable. It’s sad really. “Play as you want” is often misinterpreted. I would like for them to go

New players are very unlikely to know who races are bis for each build in the first place.
They select an race they like then an class they like, then found they made an bad selection, now for some it don't matter they want to play orc or khajiit anyway but if you want an mage sorcerer and want to play as an elf and end up with an bosmer as they are easier to make good looking it would be serious annoying.
Worse many probably might think the race is the reason they suck but its not because they are an nord magplar but because they only do HA with ice staff.

Even more stupid ESO who is competitive multiplayer in end game has way more racial difference than Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion who was single player games with an difficulty slider except daggerfall and only Oblivion was in any way dependent on an decent build in endgame. Race was an starting bonus and that makes sense, you have an natural starting bonus because of race, at the endgame your skills will be an magnitude more important.
Males are stronger than females, nobody with any sense will argue that, now go up against an Olympic level female weightlifter

I would rather return to the starting bonuses, add an sweetener, say magic races get an +20% xp on kills with magic, add +30-50% xp buff for leveling mage guild skill line, more heroic races get an undaunted bonus and so on, it would have major impact but nothing who affect you much at cp720, outside an +500 magic for Altmer.

Current system survived beta because of soft caps, racial ultimates was removed. Then they removed soft caps, we are talking about devs who has been unable to add an reply button to mail or any sort of filter in bank, something who has been requested since beta. In game its the sort of skill level who cause you to leave group in an normal dungeon

While there are plenty of bad players, many due to the game's deficiencies in explaining stuff, I don't think that diminishes how endgame players discriminate for the smallest of things. Now, this is the players we're talking about, and not the game, but the game should try to discourage that, not promote it.

On another note, I like the idea of magic races getting faster magic levels and physical races getting more physical levels faster. That indicates that, while anyone can be just as great at something as anyone else, upbringing affects how easy it is for someone to do something they're used to in their culture, but makes it possible to break the mold, even if it's harder. This is pretty much what they ended up doing in TESV, where race made almost zero impact on combat late game.

You also made an important point: Previous TES games were single player. Balance didn't really matter as long as you had some basic amount of competence. ESO though, is multiplayer. So while we want it to be as much like TES as it can be, we should be sensitive to how the multiplayer dynamic changes things.

Pretty much all of the TES games, Skyrim went way to far in removing racial differences, brobably because removing standard attributes, In skyrim you wanted an stamina build as magic was weak, this also let you carry more. In earlier game playing of an female of weaker races as in not nord or orc was an serious handicap, you started with 30-40 in strength.

And yes my idea was to make leveling easier but that just take time, it does not need to be balanced much because of this.
Bosmer and Khajiit would get the short stick, they get TG, DB and ledgerman bonuses mostly who is not very relevant for end game even if sneak bonuses help in pvp, mage guild and undaunted bonuses would be the best.
The magic or stamina buff would just be for killing blows, this would be an nerf for skyreach kids,
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Kalante · March 2018

Yes

redguards should have the fastest running

Iluvrien · March 2018

No

Marginis wrote: »

On another note, I like the idea of magic races getting faster magic levels and physical races getting more physical levels faster. That indicates that, while anyone can be just as great at something as anyone else, upbringing affects how easy it is for someone to do something they're used to in their culture, but makes it possible to break the mold, even if it's harder. This is pretty much what they ended up doing in TESV, where race made almost zero impact on combat late game.

Is this really about culture?

My own researches into Lore have always suggested to me that Men, Beastfolk and Mer are not just different races but different species. Pretty sure that they don't share a common ancestor after the Aedra/Ehlnofey, do they?

For me "races" has always seemed to be a misleading term when used in this context. Given the radically different origin stories, the idea that there are fundamentally different abilities makes sense to me.

Cultural dissimilarities can be layered on top of that, but surely the fundamental point is that Men =/= Mer =/= Beastfolk.

Marginis · March 2018

Yes

Iluvrien wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

On another note, I like the idea of magic races getting faster magic levels and physical races getting more physical levels faster. That indicates that, while anyone can be just as great at something as anyone else, upbringing affects how easy it is for someone to do something they're used to in their culture, but makes it possible to break the mold, even if it's harder. This is pretty much what they ended up doing in TESV, where race made almost zero impact on combat late game.

Is this really about culture?

My own researches into Lore have always suggested to me that Men, Beastfolk and Mer are not just different races but different species. Pretty sure that they don't share a common ancestor after the Aedra/Ehlnofey, do they?

For me "races" has always seemed to be a misleading term when used in this context. Given the radically different origin stories, the idea that there are fundamentally different abilities makes sense to me.

Cultural dissimilarities can be layered on top of that, but surely the fundamental point is that Men =/= Mer =/= Beastfolk.

Well on one hand, to argue that, there's game balance to take into account. Then there's the "play how you want to play" desire and promotion. Then there's the lore where Altmer are not always the strongest mages, Nords aren't always the strongest warriors, etc. There are indeed racial differences and it would be a shame to take that dynamic away completely, but in this game there are multiple reasons allowing and suggesting a different way to handle racial differences than a plain boring stamina recovery boost, or just some added weapon crit. Basically, culture is a way to explain how a different solution was allowed, not a reason why a different solution is, in my opinion, required.

ANGEL_BtVS · March 2018

Yes

x

driosketch wrote: »

I have 15 characters, at least one of each race, at least a magicka and a stamina version of each of 5 classes. Except for my main who is a magplar Redguard, all my alts paired with a build related to their racial passives. I defy you to tell me my roster is not diverse. If you want to roll 5 Altmer and 5 Reguards because you feel "you have to," that's on you.

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

difference is not as big as you may think it is...

The difference IS big if guilds wont even let you in a craglorn vet trial based on your paired race and build.

I've run my main through vet trials and DLC dungeons despite my mismatch. You need to put the work in to become a strong player, and you need to put "face time" in running pledges and group events with your guild so they start to recognize that. Eventually, you start progression runs or you get to sub for a regular who's out. Assuming you're actually a better than decent player, this is what will happen. And if it doesn't, you need to find a different guild.

Well yeah, a good trial group can carry a weak build through it. I guarantee your group didn't consist of all magicka Redguard DDs.

Nyladreas · March 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

Lore

Then why the F don't Nords have increased damage racial yet ;'(

Odnoc · March 2018

No

If players stopped worrying about min/maxing it would encourage diversity too. Play the game to have fun.

Zardayne · March 2018

Yes

I say yes, get rid of them. I prefer more diversity. I hate feeling pigeonholed when I'm making new characters or respeccing existing ones.

I don't know about you guys but dropping $30 every time you'd like to take your existing character from stam to mag or vice versa is pretty crappy. Sure you don't have to but have you seen some of those racial bonuses?

Destruent · March 2018

No

Btw. why do you not ask for costumes instead? Something which makes your khajiit for example look like an argonian.

Zardayne wrote: »

I say yes, get rid of them. I prefer more diversity. I hate feeling pigeonholed when I'm making new characters or respeccing existing ones.

Having less choices (i.e. none bc they are all the same) means also less diversity, not more...

BoloBoffin · March 2018

Vhozek wrote: »

Would you guys say it's better if they just let you add 1 more stat to your race of choice that is NOT the same stat the race already gives you? Or if it gives you the option to change the stat in the race skills during character creation.

Mundus stones do this already.

driosketch · March 2018

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

x

driosketch wrote: »

I have 15 characters, at least one of each race, at least a magicka and a stamina version of each of 5 classes. Except for my main who is a magplar Redguard, all my alts paired with a build related to their racial passives. I defy you to tell me my roster is not diverse. If you want to roll 5 Altmer and 5 Reguards because you feel "you have to," that's on you.

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

difference is not as big as you may think it is...

The difference IS big if guilds wont even let you in a craglorn vet trial based on your paired race and build.

I've run my main through vet trials and DLC dungeons despite my mismatch. You need to put the work in to become a strong player, and you need to put "face time" in running pledges and group events with your guild so they start to recognize that. Eventually, you start progression runs or you get to sub for a regular who's out. Assuming you're actually a better than decent player, this is what will happen. And if it doesn't, you need to find a different guild.

Well yeah, a good trial group can carry a weak build through it. I guarantee your group didn't consist of all magicka Redguard DDs.

I don't know what race everyone was, but it was indeed mostly templars.

greylox · March 2018

No

No, they should get rid of classes though, all toons can use any skill line.