Werewolf Theorycrafting (PvP)

Aznox · March 2018

Not Guile in particular (the addons shows a search for "crafted" and "weapon damage")

Just many sets that were interesting but "Shacklebreaker too good to pass"

Datolite · March 2018

Shackle and ALL the things!

Chrlynsch · March 2018

I wonder what the traits will be on crafting jewelry will be. Bloodthirsty increases damage against low health targets. Whst else will they think up?!

Qbiken · March 2018

MINOR UPDATE

Since we now know that jewellery crafting will be added to the game the theorycrafting opportunities went up another level. Even though we don´t know how it will work it´s still interesting to speculate what you would use on your werewolf the next update.

My personal favourite will probably be:

Class:
Stamina Templar, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer or Stamblade (In that order)

Race:
Orc, Argonian, Redguard, Imperial, Khajiit

Mundus stone:
Warrior, Serpent, Steed, Tower, Atronach

Gear
5 Piece Shacklebreaker: 5 Body, all impenetrable will tri-stat glyphs
5 Piece Pelinial´s Aptitude: 3 Jewellery + 2 Weapons on frontbar (Main-hand nirnhoned, off-hand infused)
2 Piece Trollking/Molag Kena/Mighty Chudan/Shadowrend

Even though there might be new sets coming with the next chapter, I see this setup as the new "meta" for werewolfs in PvP. With a Pelinial-setup in the current patch I can reach around 5,5-5,9k weapon-damage and get around 13-15k crit heals with Hircine´s Rage. However those setups often lack ways of sustaining themselves. Adding Shacklebreaker into the equation solves that issue instantly.

I can also see Clever Alchemist (CA) making a comeback with jewellery crafting. I´m already using it and having a great time with it. Combining CA with Shacklebreaker can potentially be a really good candidate for a future "meta" for werewolfs.

Swen_von_Walhallion · March 2018

Well i runing WW staplar in PvP and at this moment bone pirate + morkuldin + selene or kena (depend on situation) DW/2h full medium and its pretty funy and deadly. But i paly with well cordinate group which know how utilize chaos which i make when jump in as WW beast

And i want try bonepirat + automaton + kena, bc on paper it have incedible numbers, over 5,5k wpn dmg in ww form and 35k bleeding over 8s sounds prety crazy

Aznox · March 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

I can also see Clever Alchemist (CA) making a comeback with jewellery crafting. I´m already using it and having a great time with it. Combining CA with Shacklebreaker can potentially be a really good candidate for a future "meta" for werewolfs.

Yes i think the biggest opportunity for me will to pair another "hybrid" set with Shacklebreaker that will boost healing enough to drop Troll King for Molag Kena.

Something like Molag Kena / Shacklebreaker / Clever Alchemist would go through the roof in terms of number, but it would probably require Magicka pots and Argonian for Magicka sustain.

Qbiken · March 2018

@Chrlynsch @Aznox

I wonder how the new "Bloodthirst" trait will be together with sets like Kvatch Gladiator? On paper it sound really nasty ^^

Datolite · March 2018

I have an idea for a really annoying BG build:

Zaan
Essence Thief
Shalidor's Curse

If you for some reason WW form is not enough light attack spam for you...

Aznox · March 2018

Zaan would work because its numbers are crazy.

Essence Thief is only good on paper, check this video before farming it :
https://youtube.com/watch?v=11i2Q9rwJ-M

Shalidor's Curse ... probably in the top 5% worst sets ... and there are a lot of sets

Chrlynsch · March 2018

Aznox wrote: »

Zaan would work because its numbers are crazy.

Essence Thief is only good on paper, check this video before farming it :
https://youtube.com/watch?v=11i2Q9rwJ-M

Shalidor's Curse ... probably in the top 5% worst sets ... and there are a lot of sets

Essence Thief is actually pretty strong on werewolf I use it farming IC sometimes. On bosses it gives me close to an 80% uptime.

The interesting thing is it will also increase your Zann damage as well.

Datolite · March 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Zaan would work because its numbers are crazy.

Essence Thief is only good on paper, check this video before farming it :
https://youtube.com/watch?v=11i2Q9rwJ-M

Shalidor's Curse ... probably in the top 5% worst sets ... and there are a lot of sets

Essence Thief is actually pretty strong on werewolf I use it farming IC sometimes. On bosses it gives me close to an 80% uptime.

The interesting thing is it will also increase your Zann damage as well.

That's what I was thinking. But yeah Shalidor I'm not married to exactly, and this is just a slap-happy theory build anyway lol

Chrlynsch · March 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

@Chrlynsch @Aznox

I wonder how the new "Bloodthirst" trait will be together with sets like Kvatch Gladiator? On paper it sound really nasty ^^

Bloodthirst just sounds like it will work with well werewolf. I'm stoked for all the new possible combinations.

IlCanis_LupuslI · March 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I wonder what the traits will be on crafting jewelry will be. Bloodthirsty increases damage against low health targets. Whst else will they think up?!

@Chrlynsch
True that should prove very interesting, im also curious what interesting combinations which probably don't work as intended people will cook up

Btw the minor+major defile on ww with thurvokun is very nice my personal favorite sofar.
Btw full prismatic vs big pieces prismatic what do you guys use?? With me its big pieces prismatic atm, my health is a bit high might look for a buff food(something with magica stamina and stamina or magics recovery would be nice) but ill have to dig through my recipe book to choose a good 1(with purple trifood at 31k hp atm feels a bit excessive 42k stamina in ww form or is that just me??

IlCanis_LupuslI · March 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

MINOR UPDATE

Since we now know that jewellery crafting will be added to the game the theorycrafting opportunities went up another level. Even though we don´t know how it will work it´s still interesting to speculate what you would use on your werewolf the next update.

My personal favourite will probably be:

Class:
Stamina Templar, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer or Stamblade (In that order)

Race:
Orc, Argonian, Redguard, Imperial, Khajiit

Mundus stone:
Warrior, Serpent, Steed, Tower, Atronach

Gear
5 Piece Shacklebreaker: 5 Body, all impenetrable will tri-stat glyphs
5 Piece Pelinial´s Aptitude: 3 Jewellery + 2 Weapons on frontbar (Main-hand nirnhoned, off-hand infused)
2 Piece Trollking/Molag Kena/Mighty Chudan/Shadowrend

Even though there might be new sets coming with the next chapter, I see this setup as the new "meta" for werewolfs in PvP. With a Pelinial-setup in the current patch I can reach around 5,5-5,9k weapon-damage and get around 13-15k crit heals with Hircine´s Rage. However those setups often lack ways of sustaining themselves. Adding Shacklebreaker into the equation solves that issue instantly.

I can also see Clever Alchemist (CA) making a comeback with jewellery crafting. I´m already using it and having a great time with it. Combining CA with Shacklebreaker can potentially be a really good candidate for a future "meta" for werewolfs.

@Qbiken you forgot “Thurvokun“ it's working amazing atm

Chrlynsch · March 2018

Medium armor passive athletics does not transfer over to werewolf form. Or at least the roll dodge reduction part of the passive.

Qbiken · March 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Medium armor passive athletics does not transfer over to werewolf form. Or at least the roll dodge reduction part of the passive.

I´ve had my theories that certain armor-passives doesn´t carry over into werewolf. As far as I know they should carry over into werewolf form. Will have to test once I get the chance to do so.

Qbiken · March 2018

@datoliteb16_ESO

Essence Thief looks good on paper but it´s one of the biggest disappointments I´ve seen.

* The first issue occurs with the rune itself. When it spawns it will travel to a random location close to the target. Only once it´s done traveling and on the ground you can pick it up.

* Seconds issue is that the set has an internal cooldown, meaning that you can´t proc another rune/essence while the first one is up.

* Third issue is that your allies can´t pick these runes up.

Datolite · March 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

@datoliteb16_ESO

Essence Thief looks good on paper but it´s one of the biggest disappointments I´ve seen.

* The first issue occurs with the rune itself. When it spawns it will travel to a random location close to the target. Only once it´s done traveling and on the ground you can pick it up.

* Seconds issue is that the set has an internal cooldown, meaning that you can´t proc another rune/essence while the first one is up.

* Third issue is that your allies can´t pick these runes up.

Runes, huh. Well forget that then. Thanks for the warning.

Qbiken · March 2018

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

@datoliteb16_ESO

Essence Thief looks good on paper but it´s one of the biggest disappointments I´ve seen.

* The first issue occurs with the rune itself. When it spawns it will travel to a random location close to the target. Only once it´s done traveling and on the ground you can pick it up.

* Seconds issue is that the set has an internal cooldown, meaning that you can´t proc another rune/essence while the first one is up.

* Third issue is that your allies can´t pick these runes up.

Runes, huh. Well forget that then. Thanks for the warning.

@datoliteb16_ESO
Here´s a video of how Essence Thief looks like: (Not my clip)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUpEU4jCmaw

IlCanis_LupuslI · March 2018

KingShocker wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Btw Pack leader vs Beserker, pros and cons!
And here a bit of gameplay on my ww=
https://youtu.be/8TchJvtDiT0

just curious, what gear are you running in this video? I think I heard you say pelinial's aptitude and I see the ww ultimate only costs you 200 so I assume that's because of salvation set

Spot on, also chudan. I replaced Salvation with barkskin and started using a devicive 2h of asylum with soul harvest on my dps human bar. Aso instead of chudan i use thurvokun for group play... Chudan still my favorite for solo

Aznox · April 2018

Some early info were dropped today about Summerset patch, best recap i found :
https://reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/89e1in/summerset_update_18_teaser_a_recap_of_last_weeks/

My picks on Werewolf theory-crafting :

Jewelry Crafting

Jewelry Crafting introduces 6 new Traits, plus the three core traits we’ve been accustomed to:

Arcane: Adds 870 Max Magicka

Healthy: Adds 957 Max Health

Robust: Adds 870 Max Stamina

Triune: Adds 435 Max Health, Magicka & Stamina

Protective: Adds 1,844 Physical & Spell Resistance

Swift: Increases Movement Speed by 10%

Harmony: Increases the potency of Damage, Healing, Recovery & Damage Shields granted by Synergies by 35%

Infused: Increases the potency of this item’s Enchantment by 60%

Bloodthirsty: Increase all damage you do to the target when it is below 25% health by 20%

I think it will be a choice between the Tri-stat (more raw stats for tankyness) and Infused (trading 3x870 max stamina for 3x104,4 weapon damage, the best werewolf stat), we will do math closer to release when numbers are less subject to change.

Two-Handed Weapons (2H, Bows, Staves) now count as 2 set items, not one.

You might think its a good change ... think again : all our non-werewolf opponents will now have access to stronger builds while we will get nothing except the ability to have the ult on 2h bar with less drawbacks. Not that big of a deal though.

Sorcerers

Persistence - this passive now reduces the cost of your next cast ability by 15% after you successfully block an attack.

Stamsorc get another passive that works in werewolf form, staying ahead as the "best" class to build a werewolf upon. (didn't check all class passive change, plz check yours)

Qbiken · April 2018

@Aznox

Will be interesting to test on the PTS for sure

I do however have some hopes for the Bloodthirsty traits, but that is more for specific builds.

Amdar_Godkiller · April 2018

I don't know. I think the change to light attack calculation could really screw up our damage. It's a nerf. 2H counts as more weapon damage so it's a buff getting a second piece for set bonuses.

As to traits, 1 infused for reduced mag cost, will make our heal a spammable, 1 infused with weapon damage glyph to make up for the cost reduction, and 1 bloodthirst for what amounts to a 5% damage done buff. (20% but only 25% of the time).

For pure damage, 3 bloodthirst with 3 weapon damage glyphs will absolutely destroy the rest I bet. 60% more damage in execute range is huge, because getting there is the easy part in WW form.

Datolite · April 2018

Bloodthirsty sounds absolutely insane. And not in a good way...

I guess back to pariah/vampire I go haha

Aznox · April 2018

Do you guys have a source for the light attack change ? It's not in the recap i'v read.

Also i don't see the point of mixing enchants, if you think one is mathematically superior, why not triple it ?

Nelson_Rebel · April 2018

Aznox wrote: »

Do you guys have a source for the light attack change ? It's not in the recap i'v read.

Also i don't see the point of mixing enchants, if you think one is mathematically superior, why not triple it ?

There could be diminishing returns from it in indirect ways

Aznox · April 2018

Ok found it : https://alcasthq.com/eso-summerset-isles-changes-pre-pts/

Light and Heavy Attacks now scale differently, they now scale about the same with Magicka/ Stamina as with Spell/ Weapon damage. Therefore, weaving will be even more important from now on as the overall damage of both Light and Heavy Attacks got increased by a lot.

As always, the question to answer to know if this is a buff or a nerf is :

How does this affect us and how does this affect our opponents ?

To know that we need to answer a lot of other questions :

First we need to get the new light attack scaling equation ratio :
Are we going from 1 weapon damage = 40 max stamina to 1 weapon damage = 10 max stamina (same as skills) ?

If yes, pros, neutral and cons :
+ Our stamina opponents who usually focus on weapon damage will not benefit as much from the new ratio
= Werewolf kit has enhanced max stamina in the same way it has enhanced weapon damage, no loss here
- Our magicka opponents who usually focus on max resources will benefit more from the new ratio

After looking at the ratio, we need to look at the overall output of the formula :
Will light and heavy attack damage get a general buff because weapon damage scaling will stay the same and max stamina scaling will be increased ? (no compensation for the new ratio)

If yes, pros, neutral and cons :
+ quite a boost to our damage output
- also a boost to our opponents damage output
+ if light and heavy attacks is a bigger % of our damage output than our opponent's, then it's a buff to us

... i don't really have the time to go in-depth, but my general feeling is :

This will be an arms race that we start in a good position because light and heavy attack buff is good for us and max stamina is as much available to us than weapon damage

However this might remove some flavor to werewolf builds, more specifically our unique ability to focus on weapon damage while ignoring max stamina (only using our skills for utility) and stamina regen (thanks to heavy attack resource return). Also Pelinal's/Molag Kena might loose some appeal if stamina stacking gets to be the new optimum for us.

We might all end up with Shacklebreaker + Hulking Draugr ... or maybe not, much more calculations needed, but overall i would not worry that much

IV_Deity · April 2018

There is a lot of great information in this thread, but I want to say this, because it's been bothering me.

Werewolf should offer 20% or 25% stam recovery without you having to slot the ability. I can dream though, right?

Okay back to the topics at hand.

Aznox · April 2018

If you read this topic fully you will understand that Werewolf doesn't really need stamina recovery.

But if you don't want to slot the ultimate, what's the point of being a werewolf in the first place ?

Chrlynsch · April 2018

IV_Deity wrote: »

There is a lot of great information in this thread, but I want to say this, because it's been bothering me.

Werewolf should offer 20% or 25% stam recovery without you having to slot the ability. I can dream though, right?

Okay back to the topics at hand.

It used to offer 15% stam recovery without slotting the ultimate. Anyone that was not a vampire defaulted to being a werewolf because there was and is 0 drawbacks to being a werewolf while in human form.