Why would I want to cancel an animation?

zyk · March 2018

Everybody animation cancels whether they realize it or not. It's easy to miss.

That time you cast an ability while a monster was charging a heavy attack and roll dodged immediately after, before they finished their attack? You probably cancelled an animation.

Everyone who dodges within a second of casting an ability or performing a light/heavy attack is cancelling an animation. The same goes for swapping bars, blocking and bashing.

If you are bad at ESO now, you will be worse if you have to wait for that heal animation to complete before you can block or change bars or interrupt a cast/channel or sprint. The game would be incredibly clunky. It would not make you more effective at killing better players for errors would cost more and better players would have a lower error rate than you.

I do not love the implementation of animation priority in ESO, but improving it is a lot more nuanced than removing the ability to cancel animations and I do not think it would solve the problems many think it would.

Asardes · March 2018

First, you only cancel two animations tops per rotation, when you bar swap. Second, you don't actually cancel animations the rest of the time, just take advantage of the fact that light and heavy attacks have different cooldown timer from skills and cost nothing, and thus get some free bonus damage out of them.

Qbiken · March 2018

Sometimes I wonder how many times we need to link the video where Wrobel says animation cancelling is totally fine to use, is a part of the game and is here to stay.......

Should´ve it´s own pinned thread by the patch-notes......

Knowledge · March 2018

This game needs to be watered down a bit as it ages just like World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV. The more accessible the game is the more casual players will come and enjoy it. By watered down, I mean to make older content easier with time, more catch up mechanics, and of course, an easier combat system to perform well in.

This would require the dumbing down or out right removal of animation cancelling.

Sjizzle · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

This game needs to be watered down a bit as it ages just like World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV. The more accessible the game is the more casual players will come and enjoy it. By watered down, I mean to make older content easier with time, more catch up mechanics, and of course, an easier combat system to perform well in.

This would require the dumbing down or out right removal of animation cancelling.

just LoL....
after your logic if u can not do it need to remove or nerf...this one has no sens...if u can not play as healer, DD or Tank doesn't mean that they need to make healer, DD or Tank easier to play or remove them from the game...u need to learn it !!!!!! if u wanna play the game...
do some efforts to learn...and btw what is your problem with cancel animation ????

Just go and play other games and stop trolling around if u don't like what u have seen go away and stop tormenting yourself...

CANCEL ANIMATION IS A PART OF THIS GAME! EASY TO USE EASY TO LEARN
soon u will ask to remove all boss mechanics bcos u can not do them ! PLAY AND LEARN IT STOP TROLLING ON FORUMS!!

PS. they really need to lock are your no sens threads all of them !!!!!

LadyNalcarya · March 2018

No wonder that ESO community becomes toxic if people complain about things they dont even know about.
I dont know, maybe I'm old-fashioned, but usually when I dont understand something, I check online. Nowadays it only takes a few clicks anyway.
But if you're too lazy to do so, I'll help: WEAVING IS NOT ANIMATION CANCELLING. Its really not. Its just a light attack + an instant cast skill (normally). Weaving utilizes an animation prioritization mechanic that allows you to block/roll dodge/interrupt in time, and the whole combat system of this game is built around it.
Animation cancelling is what allows you to stop casting ability to save your chars butt, basically. If it would be removed, you would die to any mob that has a hard-hitting aoe or has to be interrupted. If you ever did that, congrats: you were animation cancelling.
Really, its that easy. Its not some cheat code that boosts you dps from 5k to 50k. If you check any high dps parse, you will see that their damage would still be high without light attacks. You can do enough damage for any content in this game without weaving so unless you're aiming for top scores in leaderboards, its not nessesary. However, if you're against all kinds of animation cancelling, you're not going to get those scores as you will die to any aoe that spawns under your feet (losing vitality bonus means -1000 score points for each death).

AlienatedGoat · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

This game needs to be watered down a bit as it ages just like World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV. The more accessible the game is the more casual players will come and enjoy it. By watered down, I mean to make older content easier with time, more catch up mechanics, and of course, an easier combat system to perform well in.

This would require the dumbing down or out right removal of animation cancelling.

This game doesn't need to be watered or dumbed down. It is perfectly fine the way it is.

If you want to play WoW or FFXIV, go play those games. There are plenty of hyper casual MMOs for you to choose from.

Please stop making these asinine threads asking for changes that won't ever happen. ESO isn't like other MMOs. That is the ethos of ZOS.

Seri · March 2018

Sixty5 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Animation canceling is an unnecessary impediment to those who play with 250ms+ latencies, such as p. much anyone in Oceania.

It really is the responsibility of the developers of an MMO to make as sure as is reasonable that skill really is the limiting factor and not things entirely outside of players' control, like what country they live in.

It's one thing to say "hey, if you've got the skills, you can eke out a couple thousand more dps." It's another to say "oh, and also, if you live in Australia, you're screwed."

Bullsht. I played with 240+ ping, and was always able to compete just fine.

Can confirm, am an OCE player, 240-280ms ping, and I make use of most animation cancels, though I am by no means perfect

A mediocre DPS parse for reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqsf5D2SKJE

Is there even much block cancelling in there? Mostly looks like heavy attack weaving with occasional barswap cancel.

For anyone playing at home, that would be as per the level advisor screenshot earlier - left click and then cast your skill after winding up to a heavy

Uviryth · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation? I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.

Because every player character in Tamriel has Parkinsons disease. The spasms are really quite lifelike.
....
Animationcanceling will never be removed, they made that abundandly clear.
You could do what I do and just ignore that it exists, play ESO only for the story and look to a better programmed MMO for competetive gameplay.

Qbiken · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

This game needs to be watered down a bit as it ages just like World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV. The more accessible the game is the more casual players will come and enjoy it. By watered down, I mean to make older content easier with time, more catch up mechanics, and of course, an easier combat system to perform well in.

This would require the dumbing down or out right removal of animation cancelling.

The game is very appealing to "casual players" (whatever that´s supposed to mean). Old content becomes easier with time because the player base becomes more and more experienced with the game, therefore the content gets easier. Even the new DLC dungeons (Fanglair and Scalecaller Peak) are starting to reach those levels where even "casuals" (boi I dislike that word....) manage to clear it without too much issues. It´s an MMO after all, you´re supposed to spend lots if time in the game to get the most out of it.

About animation cancelling. The devs (Wrobel in this case) have in an old ESO live episode stated that AC is a part of the game that is perfectly fine to use and is here to stay. Doesn´t matter if it was intended or not, the fact the devs are 100% ok with it settles the topic. You may dislike it, and that´s perfectly fine, I don´t like all aspects of this game either.

Animation-cancelling becomes important if you want to be competitive in PvE and PvP. For me the opposite to a "competitive" player is someone who is a "casual" player. Therefore, animation cancelling isn´t a huge deal for them. All content in the game is perfectly doable without AC.

Here´s a video by Glaiceana doing vMA on stamina DK without any kind of advanced AC. Without any kind of AC, half of the movement she uses in the video to dodge attacks/kite and stay alive would be impossible. The combat would be extremely clunky and removing the ability to interrupt or stop an action in ESO would make more "casual" players leave the game due to how slow and clunky the game would feel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6H7cGBjSN0

Malmai · March 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

No, git gud

I'm failing to understand why cancelling an animation makes someone good.

It adds a skill cap and skilled players like alcast who can pull 40k plus dps have mastered animation canceling and rotations

With scripts yeas...

AnviOfVai · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation?

It makes DPS rotations faster and allows a player to BLOCK during certain boss mechanics so they have an opportunity to avoid getting 1-hit-KO'ed (unlike Dark Souls)

Knowledge wrote: »

I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.

This would make 99% of players angry. The point of this type of game *IS* to have a high/fast reaction time to be good at it. Players with slower reaction times should look more into single player games or perhaps getting a console CONTROLLER (I use one) either Xbox or PS ones for their PC. If you are already on console then I would suggest single player games.

Also, you could just not animation cancel yourself. That works fine, you just wont be pulling >30k DPS - If you tank or heal you don't really *need* to animation cancel so there's that.

What if an individual is impaired and cannot react fast enough but wishes to play an MMORPG based on The Elder Scrolls universe? Should that person not be allowed to play or have the game be made harder specifically to counter their ability to play it?

....Ehh dude has a point ^^.

LadyNalcarya · March 2018

Malmai wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

No, git gud

I'm failing to understand why cancelling an animation makes someone good.

It adds a skill cap and skilled players like alcast who can pull 40k plus dps have mastered animation canceling and rotations

With scripts yeas...

You dont really need scripts to use light attacks, though. Its pretty easy, any pug player knows how to do that.
Using light attack+skill+light attack+skill... etc rotation isnt really hard. There is one technical trick, though, but its not related to scripts. Using an mmo mouse makes it much easier. I wouldnt recommend using macros since ESO is laggy and macroed rotation would only work on skeleton (because theres no incoming damage and mechanics).
The only problem here is the server lag that makes it difficult for those who play at high ping.

Jade1986 · March 2018

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

No, git gud

I'm failing to understand why cancelling an animation makes someone good.

Because, you know, this is also a competitive game, and one of the (few) instances that the game rewards, skill and dedication is with consistant and proper laid down of animation cancels.

Same reason why, for example, fighting games are build around the idea of trying to maximize combos.

False equivelancy. Your comparison would mean that in fighting games certain parts of combos would be removed entirely , but the damage would stay, so the combo would be sped up.

That is the proper comparison. This game is supposed to be reactive. That is where the skill is suppposed to be. You cannot react to something you cannot see. So there is no skill there, only muscle memory.

danno8 · March 2018

Malmai wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

No, git gud

I'm failing to understand why cancelling an animation makes someone good.

It adds a skill cap and skilled players like alcast who can pull 40k plus dps have mastered animation canceling and rotations

With scripts yeas...

You need a "script" to hit left mouse button before each skill?

Aurielle · March 2018

These threads are always annoying. I'll be brief:

1. Effective use of animation cancelling and weaving does not magically translate into 40k DPS parses. If you're only doing 10k DPS, effective cancelling and weaving will take you up to 14-15k DPS MAYBE. Having good gear and well-practiced, fine-tuned rotations are infinitely more important when it comes to hitting big parses.

2. Without animation cancelling, you could forget about blocking those big hits or dodge-rolling out of sudden AOEs. More wipes + more frustration = less people using group finder. Also, there'd be less tolerance for people who are new to dungeons in PUGs. We'd see leaders wanting people who know exactly where to stand, exactly when to stop using their skills to hold block, etc.

3. If you got killed in a PVP zone by someone using animation cancelling, suck it up. It's PVP. You will die. End of story.

4. If you got killed in less than half a second in a PVP zone, the likeliest culprit is lag, not animation cancelling. Stop blaming animation cancelling for the game's frequently poor performance.

5. Animation cancelling and light attack weaving are both condoned by the developers. Stop calling them exploits, because they're not. You won't get banned if you use them, and you won't get other players banned if you report them for using them.

Carry on!

Qbiken · March 2018

Here is the video of Wrobel saying AC is acceptable and he even encourage people to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZtwhYkKSs

Literally took me 5 min to find. And yet we have these threads......

Aurielle · March 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

Here is the video of Wrobel saying AC is acceptable and he even encourage people to do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZtwhYkKSs

Literally took me 5 min to find. And yet we have these threads......

Yup, because people always want a scapegoat. They never want to accept that maybe, just maybe they have a bad build, or they need to practice their rotations a bit more, so they scream "EXPLOIT!"

In the meantime, I'm going to continue enjoying the whopping 4-5k DPS increase that comes with bar-swap cancelling and weaving!

kypranb14_ESO · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Not falling for this again. I bit once.. shame on me.

This 'Knowledge' guys is an excellent troll poster.

EVERY single topic he's posted on is one that has been debated to death over the years in a large multitude of threads, but is still divisive enough that ppl can't help themselves to wade back into it, when brought up again. Especially the way they are worded. See the number of pages on each of the posts.

Yet doesn't post them all in a day, a novice move that would be noticed, but spreads them out over a good period of time.

It's actually pretty well done....

I'm not doing anything like that I am bringing to light an angle of this discussion that has not been explored very much but should be. That angle is that animation cancelling punishes individuals that aren't able to react very fast or have some sort of health issue which is wholly unfair.

Life isn't fair man, plain and simple. Zenimax is going to cater to the majority of their playerbase. It's not to say that the game can't be played without using animation cancelling, and/or slow reaction time.

People with quick reactions will excel at playing the game re-actively, while people with slower reactions will be better off playing proactively. As in, placing and maintaining many defensive effects on themselves, mostly healer roles.

I can't say I've ever played a MMORPG that directly catered the the disabled. It's not to say that it hasn't happened, or won't happen in the future though. I just can't imagine it being cost effective.

idk · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation? I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.

I am assuming you are rather new to ESO. If I have that wrong, apologies.

Animations in ESO are not tied to the required GCD for use of a skill. Many are much longer than they need to be. As a result animation canceling helps eliminate some of that extra wasted time for the animation. We are not starting an animation merely to cancel it, but are starting a skill to do damage, heal or whatever and after the required GCD we cancel the remaining animation.

Hope that helps.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · March 2018

The game does not teach you what animation canceling (AC) is and/or how to use it. But still, end game content is doable only through proper AC.

Let's be honest: it's not a feature, else it would have proper tutorials just like all other features of the game. And they won't ban you since they can't fix it. And even if they could, vet trials wouldn't be playable anymore.

Simply ridiculous.

Qbiken · March 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

The game does not teach you what animation canceling (AC) is and/or how to use it. But still, end game content is doable only through proper AC.

Let's be honest: it's not a feature, else it would have proper tutorials just like all other features of the game. And they won't ban you since they can't fix it. And even if they could, vet trials wouldn't be playable anymore.

Simply ridiculous.

Bolded part: Wrong

What part of the message in the video that I linked, was difficult to understand??? The devs even encourage you to use animation cancelling, so why would they ban you for something that ZOS themselves consider a feature? (Be it un-intended or not)

People will find excuses for everything these days.....

VaranisArano · March 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

The game does not teach you what animation canceling (AC) is and/or how to use it. But still, end game content is doable only through proper AC.

Let's be honest: it's not a feature, else it would have proper tutorials just like all other features of the game. And they won't ban you since they can't fix it. And even if they could, vet trials wouldn't be playable anymore.

Simply ridiculous.

Uh, what other tutorials? You mean the Skill Adviser (just introduced this patch) or the Level Up Adviser which includes a tip about Light Attack Weaving (also just introduced this patch).

Look, when the game doesn't even include a tutorial on basic roles like Tanking, Healing, or Damage Dealing, I'm not sure claiming that something can't be a feature if it doesn't have a tutorial really works as an argument. Oh, I absolutely think animation cancelling should be given a tutorial, but I'd also like a tutorial to go other the 4 taunts in the game so that my DPS and Healers know that Puncture, Inner Fire, and the Ice Staff heavy attack with Trifocus passive is a taunt without me having to tell them to read their tooltips.

When the only comprehensive tutorials for skills for roles (Skill Adviser) and stuff you should do in combat (Level Up Adviser) were just introduced this patch, this has been a game with relatively few tutorials. Before this patch, new players had the Coldharbor tutorial, the Morrowind slave ship tutorial, and the Intro to Cyrodiil tutorial. That was it.

If anything, I want more tutorials to better introduce players to their roles like effective rotations for damage dealing and effective support for tanks and healers. But so far ZOS doesn't seem to like the idea of telling players how to play the game. Level Up Adviser and Skill Adviser are a step in the right direction, but only a step.

Aurielle · March 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

The game does not teach you what animation canceling (AC) is and/or how to use it. But still, end game content is doable only through proper AC.

Let's be honest: it's not a feature, else it would have proper tutorials just like all other features of the game. And they won't ban you since they can't fix it. And even if they could, vet trials wouldn't be playable anymore.

Simply ridiculous.

If by "animation cancelling" you mean weaving (as so many people do), here:

If by animation cancelling, you mean bar-swapping just as you fire off a skill...that's easy enough to learn accidentally, as I did.

idk · March 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

The game does not teach you what animation canceling (AC) is and/or how to use it. But still, end game content is doable only through proper AC.

Let's be honest: it's not a feature, else it would have proper tutorials just like all other features of the game. And they won't ban you since they can't fix it. And even if they could, vet trials wouldn't be playable anymore.

Simply ridiculous.

I do no think anyone has said it is a feature. Heck, not even sure what you mean by that.

It is, and has been, a completely acceptable part of the game and has been blessed by Zos.

If you are gong to make the wild claim that it is because Zos cannot "fix" it then please back it up since all I have seen is empty words trying to make that claim.

Jade1986 · March 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

Here is the video of Wrobel saying AC is acceptable and he even encourage people to do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZtwhYkKSs

Literally took me 5 min to find. And yet we have these threads......

Not my responsibility to find when people claim it left right and center. But thnx for the link even with your snarky attitude.

Also, wrobel is about as knowledgable with actual combat as I am with the fine art of making cheese.

( PS I CAN make cheese, just not that great. ) xD

I honestly have nothing against animation cancelling, I do however have something against not seeing said animations at all. If they would just make the animations speed up when you cancel, that would be fine. Invisible attacks are never ok.

The only reason wrobel blessed it, is becaus ethey were incapable of fixing it. Which seems to be the tone around ZoS.

Dymence · March 2018

Seri wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Animation canceling is an unnecessary impediment to those who play with 250ms+ latencies, such as p. much anyone in Oceania.

It really is the responsibility of the developers of an MMO to make as sure as is reasonable that skill really is the limiting factor and not things entirely outside of players' control, like what country they live in.

It's one thing to say "hey, if you've got the skills, you can eke out a couple thousand more dps." It's another to say "oh, and also, if you live in Australia, you're screwed."

Bullsht. I played with 240+ ping, and was always able to compete just fine.

Can confirm, am an OCE player, 240-280ms ping, and I make use of most animation cancels, though I am by no means perfect

A mediocre DPS parse for reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqsf5D2SKJE

Is there even much block cancelling in there? Mostly looks like heavy attack weaving with occasional barswap cancel.

For anyone playing at home, that would be as per the level advisor screenshot earlier - left click and then cast your skill after winding up to a heavy

Block cancelling is not something you want to do in PVE. It does absolutely nothing to increase DPS. It may even reduce your DPS. The only things you need to do is weave and barswap cancel.

MokiDono · March 2018

Hey!

I tried not to animation cancel, and it made me feel inadequate and gave me discomfort and it affects my livelihood. Frankly, i feel offended by the notion that someone is forcing me to not animation cancel, therefore, I would like ZOS to remove animations from the game... i think a motionless 3D model, hovering around the screen while random ability effects pop out of nowhere is a game that everyone can appreciate all around the world, and i'm certain it will cater to everyone. Thank you for understanding.

VaranisArano · March 2018

Jade1986 wrote: »

Not my responsibility to find when people claim it left right and center. But thnx for the link even with your snarky attitude.

Also, wrobel is about as knowledgable with actual combat as I am with the fine art of making cheese.

Ah, the fine sport of goalpost moving.

"I've never seen this quote."

"Here it is."

"Ah, there it is! The person who said it knows very little about combat. Therefore, clearly its only a feature because ZOS can't fix it."

Personally, I agree with you that its an acceptable feature of the game because ZOS knows they can't/won't fix it therefore they might as well roll with it (see the addition of tips on light attack weaving to the Level Up Adviser), but the goal post moving was pretty funny to read.

Uviryth · March 2018

Am I the only one who hates animation canceling not because of the DPS it provides but because it just looks so effing stupid? The characters behave like straight out a poorly animated Indiegame. They twitch and spazz all over the place, especially with 2Handed weaponry and Bows. It looks soooo awful.