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Why would I want to cancel an animation?
Knowledge
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I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation? I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.
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Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, git gud. The casual players that can't animation cancel don't need it to complete most of the content in the game anyways. I don't want combat to become boringEdited by Aliyavana on March 13, 2018 9:15PM42 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation? I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.
It's like jazz drummers that leave the beat implied. You know it's there, so let's move on and just enjoy the show.4 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation?
It makes DPS rotations faster and allows a player to BLOCK during certain boss mechanics so they have an opportunity to avoid getting 1-hit-KO'ed (unlike Dark Souls)I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.
This would make 99% of players angry. The point of this type of game *IS* to have a high/fast reaction time to be good at it. Players with slower reaction times should look more into single player games or perhaps getting a console CONTROLLER (I use one) either Xbox or PS ones for their PC. If you are already on console then I would suggest single player games.
Also, you could just not animation cancel yourself. That works fine, you just wont be pulling >30k DPS - If you tank or heal you don't really *need* to animation cancel so there's that.
PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates3 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭It totally ruins the immersion.
Too soon?
Mh, serious question - what other criteria - other than reaction times/speed - could be there for a player with the toolset given here - to get better, aka make more damage per second?
For most purposed you don't really have to do it - talking PvE - and PvP does it not always boil down to reflexes? Well or sheer numbers.Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭It totally ruins the immersion.
Too soon?
Mh, serious question - what other criteria - other than reaction times/speed - could be there for a player with the toolset given here - to get better, aka make more damage per second?
For most purposed you don't really have to do it - talking PvE - and PvP does it not always boil down to reflexes? Well or sheer numbers.
I think there should be greater emphasis on doing mechanics in an MMORPG while executing a rotation.3 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This game doesn’t need another skill cap. Especially in PvP it already heavily favors large groups of people spamming abilities over players who understand the comabt systhem.6 -
mesmerizedish✭✭✭✭✭Animation canceling is an unnecessary impediment to those who play with 250ms+ latencies, such as p. much anyone in Oceania.
It really is the responsibility of the developers of an MMO to make as sure as is reasonable that skill really is the limiting factor and not things entirely outside of players' control, like what country they live in.
It's one thing to say "hey, if you've got the skills, you can eke out a couple thousand more dps." It's another to say "oh, and also, if you live in Australia, you're screwed."23 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭It totally ruins the immersion.
Too soon?
Mh, serious question - what other criteria - other than reaction times/speed - could be there for a player with the toolset given here - to get better, aka make more damage per second?
For most purposed you don't really have to do it - talking PvE - and PvP does it not always boil down to reflexes? Well or sheer numbers.
I think there should be greater emphasis on doing mechanics in an MMORPG while executing a rotation.
I am not sure I understand what you mean - can you explain this a bit more? What is "doing mechanics"?Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett1 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation? I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.
I can guarantee that you already do it. When the big nasty thing paints a big red telegraph of death on the ground or charges up a big attack that you have to either block or dodge in the middle of your own attack, you have used animation canceling.
The difference between you and others, is they have figured out how to use that more consistently and chain more attacks together even faster to boost their dps.
And that makes thread number 2 on this topic in the last 10 minutes...3 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭It totally ruins the immersion.
Too soon?
Mh, serious question - what other criteria - other than reaction times/speed - could be there for a player with the toolset given here - to get better, aka make more damage per second?
For most purposed you don't really have to do it - talking PvE - and PvP does it not always boil down to reflexes? Well or sheer numbers.
I think there should be greater emphasis on doing mechanics in an MMORPG while executing a rotation.
I am not sure I understand what you mean - can you explain this a bit more? What is "doing mechanics"?
For example, in World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV, there is greater emphasis on doing mechanics in a raid while performing your role. This could mean fail conditions such as one shot AOEs on the ground or failing to stand in the appropriate place during a given phase.2 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation?
Well, the next time you're using flurry or its morphs and an enemy winds up to uppercut you, by all means don't block.
But a gluten-free steel sandwich is still a steel sandwich...signing off5 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
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Not really.
It dont add a skill cap, after a while it becomes muscle memory and it wasn't all that hard to figure out in the first place.
That's hardly something that makes people 'gud' or not. Considering the game can be brute-forced by mastering paint by numbers gear obtainment and rotations.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 13, 2018 9:31PM1 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mesmerizedish wrote: »Animation canceling is an unnecessary impediment to those who play with 250ms+ latencies, such as p. much anyone in Oceania.
It really is the responsibility of the developers of an MMO to make as sure as is reasonable that skill really is the limiting factor and not things entirely outside of players' control, like what country they live in.
It's one thing to say "hey, if you've got the skills, you can eke out a couple thousand more dps." It's another to say "oh, and also, if you live in Australia, you're screwed."
High ping players are always going to be at a disadvantage though regardless of the skill required, everything we see on our screens is happening milliseconds after it's already happened on low ping player screens.
That said ESO's ping is way too high considering its 2018, I shouldn't see 300 ping when I'm connecting to Texas from Sydney.
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Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation? I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.
I can guarantee that you already do it. When the big nasty thing paints a big red telegraph of death on the ground or charges up a big attack that you have to either block or dodge in the middle of your own attack, you have used animation canceling.
The difference between you and others, is they have figured out how to use that more consistently and chain more attacks together even faster to boost their dps.
And that makes thread number 2 on this topic in the last 10 minutes...
There's other ways to fix this problem such as creating a greater delay on the telegraph or simply making your attack animation an invulnerability frame so that you don't die while in the animation. Following the ending of it you may then block or roll away.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation? I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.
I typically use bar swap canceling on long animations like Caltrops or Endless Hail. So the full animation for caltrops is throwing a bundle of caltrops upwards, the bundle breaks apart, then caltrops hit the ground. If I throw the caltrops upward, then bar swap, I can be ready with for my next skill to hit as soon as those caltrops are hitting the ground. There's no real reason why I have to wait around for the caltrops to hit the ground.
Same for bar-swap canceling Endless Hail. You have to fire off the arrow - if you bar swap too fast, it just cancels the skill for Endless Hail period. So fire off the arrow, bar swap, and now I'm using my dual wield skills already as the arrows start raining down. Again, there's no real reason I should have to wait for the arrows to start hitting the ground.
Now, for light attack weaving which some people consider a form of animation canceling. In light attack weaving, I'm firing off a light attack in between skills very quickly (this was recommended on one of the Level Up Advisor tips, so this one at least is sanctioned fully by ZOS). Sometimes that results in the light attack animation being canceled by the skill animations if the player has the timing right.
So that's why I use some forms of animation canceling by laying down a DOT and bar swapping so I'm ready with the next skill instead of waiting for the animation to finish.1 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭For example, in World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV, there is greater emphasis on doing mechanics in a raid while performing your role. This could mean fail conditions such as one shot AOEs on the ground or failing to stand in the appropriate place during a given phase.
My feeling would be that those things are already in place. Btw that was something that I first liked in GW2 and then it just became an unnecessary prolonging of things.
At the end of the day you have to react fast and get the right timing. That would be the same, no aid for slower players as you said (?)
I hate one-shot deaths btw, it is more dramatic if you only almost die and have a chance to come back from it.Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett2 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭mesmerizedish wrote: »Animation canceling is an unnecessary impediment to those who play with 250ms+ latencies, such as p. much anyone in Oceania.
It really is the responsibility of the developers of an MMO to make as sure as is reasonable that skill really is the limiting factor and not things entirely outside of players' control, like what country they live in.
It's one thing to say "hey, if you've got the skills, you can eke out a couple thousand more dps." It's another to say "oh, and also, if you live in Australia, you're screwed."
High ping players are always going to be at a disadvantage though regardless of the skill required, everything we see on our screens is happening milliseconds after it's already happened on low ping player screens.
That said ESO's ping is way too high considering its 2018, I shouldn't see 300 ping when I'm connecting to Texas from Sydney.
The ping disadvantage can be lowered tremendously by not allowing animation cancelling in a massively populated game world. It won't fully fix it but it will surely make the individuals that would otherwise suffer from it have more fun.
You do want people to have fun right?1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you really want the game to cater to players who have lag, high ping, or poor reaction time...
You need to destroy the rotation-based approach to DPS in end-game content.
When good DPS relies on hitting a sequence of 10 skills plus light attacks one after the other, that's what is fundamentally causing problems for players with lag, high ping, or poor reaction time. Animation canceling is a symptom of rotation-based DPS, not the cause of it.
Or in other words, you need a combat system like Skyrim.
(If I wanted to play Skyrim, I'd play Skyrim.)0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »If you really want the game to cater to players who have lag, high ping, or poor reaction time...
You need to destroy the rotation-based approach to DPS in end-game content.
When good DPS relies on hitting a sequence of 10 skills plus light attacks one after the other, that's what is fundamentally causing problems for players with lag, high ping, or poor reaction time. Animation canceling is a symptom of rotation-based DPS, not the cause of it.
Or in other words, you need a combat system like Skyrim.
(If I wanted to play Skyrim, I'd play Skyrim.)
That's not true at all.0 -
Yakidafi✭✭✭✭✭
✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation?
It makes DPS rotations faster and allows a player to BLOCK during certain boss mechanics so they have an opportunity to avoid getting 1-hit-KO'ed (unlike Dark Souls)I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.
This would make 99% of players angry. The point of this type of game *IS* to have a high/fast reaction time to be good at it. Players with slower reaction times should look more into single player games or perhaps getting a console CONTROLLER (I use one) either Xbox or PS ones for their PC. If you are already on console then I would suggest single player games.
Also, you could just not animation cancel yourself. That works fine, you just wont be pulling >30k DPS - If you tank or heal you don't really *need* to animation cancel so there's that.
What if an individual is impaired and cannot react fast enough but wishes to play an MMORPG based on The Elder Scrolls universe? Should that person not be allowed to play or have the game be made harder specifically to counter their ability to play it?
There is nothing stopping you from playing this game. You do not need to animation cancel to complete every content in this game. You do not need to animation cancel to kill in pvp.
You only need to animation cancel to get highest possible dps. Which you only need if you "try hard" for something like a trial leaderboard for example.Moons and sands shall be your guide and path.
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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So they mastered a glitch. Hooray.
Animation cancelling was never intended, and way back when ZoS stated that. Then they gave up on fixing it completely and since then have slowed down animations here and there and put in tiny fixes .
I do not think it will ever completely go away, but it is by far far less effective now a days as when the game first came out. And ZoS's baby steps toward limiting its effectiveness shows that they are not 100% ok with it.5 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭F_16C_VIPER wrote: »Oh god, this guy again.... it's just a troll, everyone. Don't take the bait.
I am by no means trolling anyone and you are only attempting to derail valid discussion focused on cancelling animations that prohibit the less fortunate from playing this game. It is nothing to joke about.
But you don't have to animation cancel to play the game. You just won't play it at a competitive level, but that's kind of the nature of competition.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA3 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
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So they mastered a glitch. Hooray.
Animation cancelling was never intended, and way back when ZoS stated that. Then they gave up on fixing it completely and since then have slowed down animations here and there and put in tiny fixes .
I do not think it will ever completely go away, but it is by far far less effective now a days as when the game first came out. And ZoS's baby steps toward limiting its effectiveness shows that they are not 100% ok with it.
Thank you for reminding the community that ZeniMax Online Studios did in fact state that animation cancelling was never intended.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »I'm not really sure I understand why someone would want to cancel an animation that they started. Why start the animation if you have no intention of finishing said animation?
It makes DPS rotations faster and allows a player to BLOCK during certain boss mechanics so they have an opportunity to avoid getting 1-hit-KO'ed (unlike Dark Souls)I personally think animation cancelling should be removed from the game to aid players with a slower reaction time making the game more accessible.
This would make 99% of players angry. The point of this type of game *IS* to have a high/fast reaction time to be good at it. Players with slower reaction times should look more into single player games or perhaps getting a console CONTROLLER (I use one) either Xbox or PS ones for their PC. If you are already on console then I would suggest single player games.
Also, you could just not animation cancel yourself. That works fine, you just wont be pulling >30k DPS - If you tank or heal you don't really *need* to animation cancel so there's that.
wut? I am pretty sure "most" players, as in the majority, dont even use it. So it would only be a small minority who do notice. And the game was supposed to be reactive. YOU CANNOT REACT TO SOMETHING YOU CANNOT SEE! Put bluntly.4 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
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So they mastered a glitch. Hooray.
Animation cancelling was never intended, and way back when ZoS stated that. Then they gave up on fixing it completely and since then have slowed down animations here and there and put in tiny fixes .
I do not think it will ever completely go away, but it is by far far less effective now a days as when the game first came out. And ZoS's baby steps toward limiting its effectiveness shows that they are not 100% ok with it.
Thank you for reminding the community that ZeniMax Online Studios did in fact state that animation cancelling was never intended.
I'll also remind you then that ZOS also stated a time thereafter that animation cancelling is staying in game as a feature.Edited by AlienatedGoat on March 13, 2018 9:53PMPC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa2 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
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So they mastered a glitch. Hooray.
Animation cancelling was never intended, and way back when ZoS stated that. Then they gave up on fixing it completely and since then have slowed down animations here and there and put in tiny fixes .
I do not think it will ever completely go away, but it is by far far less effective now a days as when the game first came out. And ZoS's baby steps toward limiting its effectiveness shows that they are not 100% ok with it.
But they not only condone animation canceling but do it themselves, I think they're 100% ok with it.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
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So they mastered a glitch. Hooray.
Animation cancelling was never intended, and way back when ZoS stated that. Then they gave up on fixing it completely and since then have slowed down animations here and there and put in tiny fixes .
I do not think it will ever completely go away, but it is by far far less effective now a days as when the game first came out. And ZoS's baby steps toward limiting its effectiveness shows that they are not 100% ok with it.
But they not only condone animation canceling but do it themselves, I think they're 100% ok with it.
An interesting point but that doesn't change the fact that this causes players to experience issues.0