Where would you currently rate classes for PVP?

Joy_Division · March 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

This issue is that the damage is dispersed, when in BGs and PvP in general, you rather have it concentrated and focused as that is what gets kills. So 1.7 million damage and only 7 KBs. Templars forced into a 1v1 or worse 1vX Vs. a similarly skilled opponent might get flashy damage values, but is going to struggle securing the kill and winning the fights because it is difficult to focus that damage and the "I'm now offense, now I'm on defense" predictable phases templar game-play is all about.

I don't think the PvP community ihas missed out on the offensive potential of templars. Builds, combinations, FOTM, etc., get around real quick as there is a lot of copycats out there. If offensive predator type templar builds were easy, fluid, natural, etc., I think we'd see a lot of them - most people who PvP want to kill other players at the end of the day.

Sure, your friend, myself, and other templars out there discard the "healbot" stereotype. And for more often than not, we make it work. But it's not easy, it's awkward, too often it means fighting against what the class does well and does not do well, and ultimately a big reason we make it work is we have so much experience with playing a Magplar (more so that the strengths of magplar). Only so many times you go "balls-deep" and then realize your f***** because your opponent(s) are just as experienced as you are and using a class that is better suited for melee single target encounter. Since there's no streak, cloak, or anyway out of the situation before you want to throw your computer out the window.

I'd just like to reiterate again that the reason he's got 1.7m dmg and 7 kills is because he's duoing with me, a Sorc, in a Deathmatch. Any target that we're focusing on has a Fury on him first and foremost, or our kills will get stolen by opposition Sorcs, like the dude Stellious from the red team. The fact my mate even got 7 killing blows means I was slacking if anything. In other game modes, I'm not so aggressive with my kill stealing.

I do not know man, I'm not a MagPlar myself, it's one of the classes I'm missing. So I'm not gonna preach on experienced Templars, that'd be foolish of me. I'm just saying that I observe the vast majority of Templars playing a very conservative game. Maybe because that's what they feel more natural as, or because they rolled Templar to be healers, or because it's frankly easier, or perhaps because if they wanted to play an aggressive game they'd log NB. There can be a host of reasons. I just think that creates an impression that this is all they can do and it doesn't seem right to me.

When experienced, skilled, aggressive MagPlars put the foot down on the damage pedal, I see the dials hit red. Every time. The class does not seem to be lacking damage potential to me, either burst or sustained pressure. It sure lacks the kiting potential, and it's very tricky to play solo even in BGs. But in a coordinated small group it seems like a powerhouse, offensively or defensively.

Just remember this all started as a quick response to Lexxy who said they have low damage btw

Well it's kind of like this. It gets old *real* fast knowing the moment you come across an enemy group or zerg, you're rezzing at wayshrine if they decide to chase you (which is pretty much always unless you know them). And when you got a 1v1 or a manageable 1vX, the moment you're spotted by randoms who chase, you're screwed. A sorc can streak to spread them out. A NB can cloak and try to isolate them. You got no shot as a magplar other than hoping you can take one or two down with you. Unless you have the patience of a saint, you're going to look for a class that's more suited for that sort of game-play. So the potential pool of aggressive "balls-deep" magplars is going to be thin.

I do agree that Templars tend to say things like "we're only good for healer-support" too much. I've played one for 4 years and I know perfectly well the class has the tools to be a killer. But the class's mechanics make things like 1vX a lot harder than on others classes and the whole knowing you're going to have to rez at wayshrine is going to be a big turn off for people who want engaging solo gameplay. These drawbacks are largely covered up in BGs and coordinated groups.

Jjitsuboy98 · March 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

TBF that isn't really the best way to play a stamDK. Defile, heroic and light+ransack+bash. Use fossilize and play like an *** for duels. Still underpowered, but better than the dizzy spammers.

Those specs aren’t viable on console because you can’t unbind block from bash. This means you essentially have 0 sustain when you go offensive. It is 100% not sustainable and without the bash cancel it’s a noticeable loss of damage. You can try to run just LA+ransack/heroic weaves but I haven’t fought a stam DK doing that effectively

Not specifically sure what you mean by unbinding. You can't on a PC IIRC, unless you mean with a macro to reduce time blocking. Since blocking doesn't actually reset your regen tick, only pauses it you will still get some regen. I believe cyrusarya tested it.

Whilst true, it is a heavier sustain loss altogether due to bash, it matter less in a duel because you use less resourcess altogether and can heavy attack. Also DK stam sustain is pretty decent.

I’m 99% sure you have different keybinds for interrupt and block. You could change bash to, say, mouse wheel up and bash without stopping your stam regen(unless a tick happens in that exact instant). However, more importantly, console has an issue where when you bash you get stuck in block for a second or more, snaring you and stopping stam regen while also draining stamina. Since on PC you don’t have to first activate block and then bash this problem doesn’t exist.

Yeah pretty much this. It's much easier on PC. I can do it pretty well but when I play SnB DK i just do heavies into heroic or ransack. The animation cancel combo can add alot of pressure but you have to be careful.

However it still is better than dizzy swing.....

Subversus · March 2018

Imo, this is how I see em:

Duels: (in order from most op to bleh)
Heavy armor stamblade
Magdk
Stamden
Medium armor roller stamblade
Magblade
Magsorc
Magplar
etc.

Solo open world:
Medium stamblade
Magsorc
Stamden
Magblade

Idk/idc about group play, only "group play" I do is BGs and that's kinda irrelevant now that it's noCP and any class with proc sets can do fine

Maryal · March 2018

When I was new to Cyrodiil (roughly 3 years ago), one of the most OP pvp classes you dreaded running into was Vampire. Sad that you never hear them referred to as a class anymore.

Maulkin · March 2018

Maryal wrote: »

When I was new to Cyrodiil (roughly 3 years ago), one of the most OP pvp classes you dreaded running into was Vampire. Sad that you never hear them referred to as a class anymore.

Looks like most people have learned vamps are not a class. For those who haven't, there's no hope.

Starlight_Knight · March 2018

Anything that perma blocks is top -
Blocking DK and Templar's using power of the wrobel will destroy a stam warden
Stam wardens are not as powerfull as they were, they have one trick and we all know it now. just block or dodge roll though them, they have no purify so load them up with dots.

Anything using dots and sword and shield like stam sorc - keep pressure on with hurricane that kind of thing.

Mag warden is in need of some serious TLC for pvp, at leased give us some decent dots or a class execute.
playing mag warden solo - yea ok its tanky but .. bleh
They took away there one good skill i think un-dodgable cliff racer should come back for the mag warden, keep stam undodgable.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

Anything that perma blocks is top -
Blocking DK and Templar's using power of the wrobel will destroy a stam warden
Stam wardens are not as powerfull as they were, they have one trick and we all know it now. just block or dodge roll though them, they have no purify so load them up with dots.

Anything using dots and sword and shield like stam sorc - keep pressure on with hurricane that kind of thing.

Mag warden is in need of some serious TLC for pvp, at leased give us some decent dots or a class execute.
playing mag warden solo - yea ok its tanky but .. bleh
They took away there one good skill i think un-dodgable cliff racer should come back for the mag warden, keep stam undodgable.

I really don't understand how stamden is ''easy to beat'' because you can roll thru them and dot them to death but blocking DKs are op lol.. People are outrunning leap, but good luck outrunning sub assault. and I'm not even gonna mention how much free mobility wardens have. Snare reduction, free major expedition, packed with minor berserk and major endurance, only for like 3k magicka.

I could go on and make a list about how ridicilous stamden is, but I'm gonna pass because I totally give up on this community.
You people refuse to see the plain truth.

technohic · March 2018

Cliff racers should stay dodge able. There should be conformity and the plausibility of an entire class should not be built on indefensible mechanics. What they need to do is re-examine the class and give it more viability for Borge PVE and PVP rather than rely on cheese.

RighteousBacon · March 2018

Am I missing something? I had no idea people thought magblade was this good. Are we referring to bombers or what? Did the dragon bones patch buff them a lot?

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Am I missing something? I had no idea people thought magblade was this good. Are we referring to bombers or what? Did the dragon bones patch buff them a lot?

Only bad players, and ''downplayers'' talked about magblade like its a weak class.

technohic · March 2018

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Am I missing something? I had no idea people thought magblade was this good. Are we referring to bombers or what? Did the dragon bones patch buff them a lot?

Some QOL stuff has made them easier to play and extended their window for merciless resolve proc. Merciless resolve buffs stay so long as youre in combat, which in PvP is pretty easy to do. Shadow image got fixed after months of issues and was cleaned up a bit on how clunky it could be to use if you had gotten out of range of your initial shade.

MIATs really was a deterrent more toward stamblades IMO as magblades burst was not often out of stealth as much, but the fact that stamblades are all over the place, having the cloak and movement utility of magblade to avoid them sure is nice as well. Magblades were always good, just people didnt see them that often.

Lexxypwns · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Am I missing something? I had no idea people thought magblade was this good. Are we referring to bombers or what? Did the dragon bones patch buff them a lot?

Only bad players, and ''downplayers'' talked about magblade like its a weak class.

It was second, only below stam warden prior to the shade fix and merciless buff. Now it’s not. At this point if a stam warden kills me on mageblade I know he outplayed me by a lot

Derra · March 2018

From good to bad imo:

MagDK, MagNB
Stamden, StamNB
Magplar, Magsorc, Stamplar
Magden. Stamsorc
StamDK

MagDK + NB have the currently highest potential to stack everything good into one build.

Minno · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

Anything that perma blocks is top -
Blocking DK and Templar's using power of the wrobel will destroy a stam warden
Stam wardens are not as powerfull as they were, they have one trick and we all know it now. just block or dodge roll though them, they have no purify so load them up with dots.

Anything using dots and sword and shield like stam sorc - keep pressure on with hurricane that kind of thing.

Mag warden is in need of some serious TLC for pvp, at leased give us some decent dots or a class execute.
playing mag warden solo - yea ok its tanky but .. bleh
They took away there one good skill i think un-dodgable cliff racer should come back for the mag warden, keep stam undodgable.

I really don't understand how stamden is ''easy to beat'' because you can roll thru them and dot them to death but blocking DKs are op lol.. People are outrunning leap, but good luck outrunning sub assault. and I'm not even gonna mention how much free mobility wardens have. Snare reduction, free major expedition, packed with minor berserk and major endurance, only for like 3k magicka.

I could go on and make a list about how ridicilous stamden is, but I'm gonna pass because I totally give up on this community.
You people refuse to see the plain truth.

I always love their argument of "just move out of shalks lulz". Like the should try as a magplar to dodge roll/move with 15k stamina with 20 debuffs/immobilze on you lol

Master_Kas · March 2018

For solo PvP there's no class that matches stamblade imo.

Shortly followed by magsorcs, magblades and stamwardens.

Don't crucify me forumsorcs, not saying sorc is OP but having the ability to disengage is huge and a streaking sorc has usually better chance of escaping before getting zerged to death.

In group things change, there magtemplar (as healbots/support) and magblade are extremely potent as bombers.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

Minno wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

Anything that perma blocks is top -
Blocking DK and Templar's using power of the wrobel will destroy a stam warden
Stam wardens are not as powerfull as they were, they have one trick and we all know it now. just block or dodge roll though them, they have no purify so load them up with dots.

Anything using dots and sword and shield like stam sorc - keep pressure on with hurricane that kind of thing.

Mag warden is in need of some serious TLC for pvp, at leased give us some decent dots or a class execute.
playing mag warden solo - yea ok its tanky but .. bleh
They took away there one good skill i think un-dodgable cliff racer should come back for the mag warden, keep stam undodgable.

I really don't understand how stamden is ''easy to beat'' because you can roll thru them and dot them to death but blocking DKs are op lol.. People are outrunning leap, but good luck outrunning sub assault. and I'm not even gonna mention how much free mobility wardens have. Snare reduction, free major expedition, packed with minor berserk and major endurance, only for like 3k magicka.

I could go on and make a list about how ridicilous stamden is, but I'm gonna pass because I totally give up on this community.
You people refuse to see the plain truth.

I always love their argument of "just move out of shalks lulz". Like the should try as a magplar to dodge roll/move with 15k stamina with 20 debuffs/immobilze on you lol

Every time someone says shalks is weak and counterable, a stamDK in somewhere dies because they tried to hit noxious breath for 5th time in a row without success.

Maulkin · March 2018

Master_Kas wrote: »

For solo PvP there's no class that matches stamblade imo.

Shortly followed by magsorcs, magblades and stamwardens.

Don't crucify me forumsorcs, not saying sorc is OP but having the ability to disengage is huge and a streaking sorc has usually better chance of escaping before getting zerged to death.

In group things change, there magtemplar (as healbots/support) and magblade are extremely potent as bombers.

I don’t see why forums Sorcs would crucify you. I think it’s fairly accurate. I personally believe the MagBlade’s ability to complete disengage, versus Sorc streaking away and triggering 20 people to chase, is stronger for solo play and would put it up there with Stamblade. But otherwise yeah, I agree.

Waffennacht · March 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

For solo PvP there's no class that matches stamblade imo.

Shortly followed by magsorcs, magblades and stamwardens.

Don't crucify me forumsorcs, not saying sorc is OP but having the ability to disengage is huge and a streaking sorc has usually better chance of escaping before getting zerged to death.

In group things change, there magtemplar (as healbots/support) and magblade are extremely potent as bombers.

I don’t see why forums Sorcs would crucify you. I think it’s fairly accurate. I personally believe the MagBlade’s ability to complete disengage, versus Sorc streaking away and triggering 20 people to chase, is stronger for solo play and would put it up there with Stamblade. But otherwise yeah, I agree.

Streak only works well as an escape when combined with root and snare immunity, without that you're not going anywhere

Maulkin · March 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

For solo PvP there's no class that matches stamblade imo.

Shortly followed by magsorcs, magblades and stamwardens.

Don't crucify me forumsorcs, not saying sorc is OP but having the ability to disengage is huge and a streaking sorc has usually better chance of escaping before getting zerged to death.

In group things change, there magtemplar (as healbots/support) and magblade are extremely potent as bombers.

I don’t see why forums Sorcs would crucify you. I think it’s fairly accurate. I personally believe the MagBlade’s ability to complete disengage, versus Sorc streaking away and triggering 20 people to chase, is stronger for solo play and would put it up there with Stamblade. But otherwise yeah, I agree.

Streak only works well as an escape when combined with root and snare immunity, without that you're not going anywhere

Agreed. I very rarely venture into Cyrodiil cause I can only play prime time and I get horrendous ping and FPS drops. But when I do I use Overload on backbar, instead of Resto ult, and keep Retreating Manoeuvres there. So I can actually disengage some times.

Because without it, any MagBlade with Cripple+Cloak+Concealed can snare and root the living daylights out of me while chasing me down at speeds faster than I can Streak away. It’s pointless to even try then.

So there is at least that option for Sorcs, which is much more than most other classes get, so I’d never complain. I just find that Invisibility from Cloak especially when combined with Shadow Image, is far far more potent for completely disengaging without dragging 20 angry zerglings with you.

And invisibility also leads to more kills when soloing. You can unexpectedly open up on people with a lot of burst. Everybody sees a Sorc coming and even if they don’t, the Sorc burst rotation begins with Curse which has both clear sound and animation.

Like I say, Sorc is very very good solo. Better than most classes and I’m happy with where the class is. But both types of NB are better imo.

Minno · March 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

For solo PvP there's no class that matches stamblade imo.

Shortly followed by magsorcs, magblades and stamwardens.

Don't crucify me forumsorcs, not saying sorc is OP but having the ability to disengage is huge and a streaking sorc has usually better chance of escaping before getting zerged to death.

In group things change, there magtemplar (as healbots/support) and magblade are extremely potent as bombers.

I don’t see why forums Sorcs would crucify you. I think it’s fairly accurate. I personally believe the MagBlade’s ability to complete disengage, versus Sorc streaking away and triggering 20 people to chase, is stronger for solo play and would put it up there with Stamblade. But otherwise yeah, I agree.

Streak only works well as an escape when combined with root and snare immunity, without that you're not going anywhere

Agreed. I very rarely venture into Cyrodiil cause I can only play prime time and I get horrendous ping and FPS drops. But when I do I use Overload on backbar, instead of Resto ult, and keep Retreating Manoeuvres there. So I can actually disengage some times.

Because without it, any MagBlade with Cripple+Cloak+Concealed can snare and root the living daylights out of me while chasing me down at speeds faster than I can Streak away. It’s pointless to even try then.

So there is at least that option for Sorcs, which is much more than most other classes get, so I’d never complain. I just find that Invisibility from Cloak especially when combined with Shadow Image, is far far more potent for completely disengaging without dragging 20 angry zerglings with you.

And invisibility also leads to more kills when soloing. You can unexpectedly open up on people with a lot of burst. Everybody sees a Sorc coming and even if they don’t, the Sorc burst rotation begins with Curse which has both clear sound and animation.

Like I say, Sorc is very very good solo. Better than most classes and I’m happy with where the class is. But both types of NB are better imo.

They really need to clean up the Sorc kit. Unlike Templar, whose kit is all over the place due to constant redesigns, Sorc is plauged by having the same playstyle for over 3 years before zos decided to mess with it significantly. Because if that shakeup, it's more noticeable how much the Sorc kit has some buggy/terribly designed skills.

That said, mobilty still solves many build problems in cyro. If you can place distance to force 1v1, I consider that a better PvP class than those that are stuck being immoble.

Good discussion!

Master_Kas · March 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

For solo PvP there's no class that matches stamblade imo.

Shortly followed by magsorcs, magblades and stamwardens.

Don't crucify me forumsorcs, not saying sorc is OP but having the ability to disengage is huge and a streaking sorc has usually better chance of escaping before getting zerged to death.

In group things change, there magtemplar (as healbots/support) and magblade are extremely potent as bombers.

I don’t see why forums Sorcs would crucify you. I think it’s fairly accurate. I personally believe the MagBlade’s ability to complete disengage, versus Sorc streaking away and triggering 20 people to chase, is stronger for solo play and would put it up there with Stamblade. But otherwise yeah, I agree.

It depends on who/what you fight I guess. Usually 2-3 streaks and a invispot gets me out of trouble as sorc. Meanwhile my magblade gets marked, snared to death with no use of cloak. But that can be because people love my magblade to much

I put sorc and magblade in the same spot for that reason, since they both got the option to disengage easier. Magblade is more versatile and got deadlier burst but yeah.

Imo no class can be in the same spot as stamblade. It's snare/root immune unlike magblades/magsorcs, it has insane burst with a high damage spammable and a almost broken ultimate.

On top of alot of abilities turning dodgeable, stamblade is cyro #1 predator for open world pvp. Neither magsorc or magblade compares for that reason imo.

Edit: Raidgroups are diffrent, there a stamblade is pretty garbage because of no strong AoE capabilities and other stamspecs make for tankier manouverbuilds.

Duels I leave to the experts since I haven't dueled properly since shortly after 1.6 ^^

Subversus · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Top tier

Stamblade (I have 1)
Stamplar
Mag DK (I have 1)

Second Tier

Stamden (I have 1)
Mag Sorc (I have 1)
Magden

Third Tier

Magblade
Magplar (I have 1)

Fourth Tier

Stam Sorc (I have 1)

Fifth Tier

?

Sixth Tier

Stam DK (Sadly, I have 1)

I think this is mostly accurate, but I would put magblade higher.

As a magblade main, I wouldn't.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Am I missing something? I had no idea people thought magblade was this good. Are we referring to bombers or what? Did the dragon bones patch buff them a lot?

Only bad players, and ''downplayers'' talked about magblade like its a weak class.

Magblade is a weak class for solo pvp. You shouldn't talk about classes that you've never played as if you knew what it was like.

For example, because I'm sure you won't take my opinion into consideration, blobs (one of the best magblades on PC EU) also thinks the class is lacking. Is he bad too? You're full of ***.

Magblades are extremely potent for 1v1s and group play, but when it comes to playing solo in cyro they're mediocre at best.

Lexxypwns · March 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Top tier

Stamblade (I have 1)
Stamplar
Mag DK (I have 1)

Second Tier

Stamden (I have 1)
Mag Sorc (I have 1)
Magden

Third Tier

Magblade
Magplar (I have 1)

Fourth Tier

Stam Sorc (I have 1)

Fifth Tier

?

Sixth Tier

Stam DK (Sadly, I have 1)

I think this is mostly accurate, but I would put magblade higher.

As a magblade main, I wouldn't.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Am I missing something? I had no idea people thought magblade was this good. Are we referring to bombers or what? Did the dragon bones patch buff them a lot?

Only bad players, and ''downplayers'' talked about magblade like its a weak class.

Magblade is a weak class for solo pvp. You shouldn't talk about classes that you've never played as if you knew what it was like.

For example, because I'm sure you won't take my opinion into consideration, blobs (one of the best magblades on PC EU) also thinks the class is lacking. Is he bad too? You're full of ***.

Magblades are extremely potent for 1v1s and group play, but when it comes to playing solo in cyro they're mediocre at best.

2h/resto mageblade is Bar none the strongest solo spec in the game open world imo. Snare and root immunity combined with major expedition+conceal speed and shade is incredible. You also have shields to counter defiles and huge burst

Drdeath20 · March 2018

If you havent made a nightblade. Now is the time. Its that bad.

Everything else is a niche build.

The only real counter to a cloaking nightblade is being a nightblade.

technohic · March 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Top tier

Stamblade (I have 1)
Stamplar
Mag DK (I have 1)

Second Tier

Stamden (I have 1)
Mag Sorc (I have 1)
Magden

Third Tier

Magblade
Magplar (I have 1)

Fourth Tier

Stam Sorc (I have 1)

Fifth Tier

?

Sixth Tier

Stam DK (Sadly, I have 1)

I think this is mostly accurate, but I would put magblade higher.

As a magblade main, I wouldn't.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Am I missing something? I had no idea people thought magblade was this good. Are we referring to bombers or what? Did the dragon bones patch buff them a lot?

Only bad players, and ''downplayers'' talked about magblade like its a weak class.

Magblade is a weak class for solo pvp. You shouldn't talk about classes that you've never played as if you knew what it was like.

For example, because I'm sure you won't take my opinion into consideration, blobs (one of the best magblades on PC EU) also thinks the class is lacking. Is he bad too? You're full of ***.

Magblades are extremely potent for 1v1s and group play, but when it comes to playing solo in cyro they're mediocre at best.

Mmm I’m not great and actually can do better at killing with my Stamplar when I can LOS ; but my magblade is able to kill the same targets (both really come down to whether someone’s better than me or not which many are) but LOS is not really needed. Cloak, concealed weapon, shadow image , expedition, forward momentum when i run 2h rather than destro; and I can outrun and out maneuver any cloak counters. Mark merely makes me equal to sorc when it comes to escape as you can be fast as anything in game.

I mean I can see the other side. There does feel like it’s not as decestating as my Stamplar in some way but it still kills but has so much more utility in the open.

Subversus · March 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Top tier

Stamblade (I have 1)
Stamplar
Mag DK (I have 1)

Second Tier

Stamden (I have 1)
Mag Sorc (I have 1)
Magden

Third Tier

Magblade
Magplar (I have 1)

Fourth Tier

Stam Sorc (I have 1)

Fifth Tier

?

Sixth Tier

Stam DK (Sadly, I have 1)

I think this is mostly accurate, but I would put magblade higher.

As a magblade main, I wouldn't.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Am I missing something? I had no idea people thought magblade was this good. Are we referring to bombers or what? Did the dragon bones patch buff them a lot?

Only bad players, and ''downplayers'' talked about magblade like its a weak class.

Magblade is a weak class for solo pvp. You shouldn't talk about classes that you've never played as if you knew what it was like.

For example, because I'm sure you won't take my opinion into consideration, blobs (one of the best magblades on PC EU) also thinks the class is lacking. Is he bad too? You're full of ***.

Magblades are extremely potent for 1v1s and group play, but when it comes to playing solo in cyro they're mediocre at best.

2h/resto mageblade is Bar none the strongest solo spec in the game open world imo. Snare and root immunity combined with major expedition+conceal speed and shade is incredible. You also have shields to counter defiles and huge burst

That's my point, without momentum (which is not even a class skill) magblade is subpar in pvp. Destro/resto, dw/resto and s&b/resto all get outshined by other specs/classes in solo pvp.

Magblades are insanely strong for dueling and arguably one of the best group play classes though (especially destro/resto), so I guess that evens it out.

Edit: I don't mean to say magblades are trash, but let's not all act like they're the best at everything as everyone puts it in this thread. They are good in certain parts of the game, and bad in other.

Maulkin · March 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Magblade is a weak class for solo pvp. You shouldn't talk about classes that you've never played as if you knew what it was like.

For example, because I'm sure you won't take my opinion into consideration, blobs (one of the best magblades on PC EU) also thinks the class is lacking. Is he bad too? You're full of ***.

Magblades are extremely potent for 1v1s and group play, but when it comes to playing solo in cyro they're mediocre at best.

It's got nothing to do with being good or bad. I see plenty of good sorcs QQing that Sorc is bad. Does that mean Sorc is bad or they're bad Sorcs themselves? No, it makes their opinion perhaps biased or at least affected by the fact they play one class predominantly.

When you or Blobs say MagBlade is lacking, the immediate question in my head is "what exactly"? What is it MagBlades don't have that others do that makes them by your reckoning just a middle of the pack class for OW?

Because just saying "I'm a good NB" or "X is a good NB" doesn't give their opinion a pass. You need to be able to articulate where you think it's lacking because both on paper and based on my experience as one, MagBlade is pretty beast in solo mode.

Subversus · March 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Magblade is a weak class for solo pvp. You shouldn't talk about classes that you've never played as if you knew what it was like.

For example, because I'm sure you won't take my opinion into consideration, blobs (one of the best magblades on PC EU) also thinks the class is lacking. Is he bad too? You're full of ***.

Magblades are extremely potent for 1v1s and group play, but when it comes to playing solo in cyro they're mediocre at best.

It's got nothing to do with being good or bad. I see plenty of good sorcs QQing that Sorc is bad. Does that mean Sorc is bad or they're bad Sorcs themselves? No, it makes their opinion perhaps biased or at least affected by the fact they play one class predominantly.

When you or Blobs say MagBlade is lacking, the immediate question in my head is "what exactly"? What is it MagBlades don't have that others do that makes them by your reckoning just a middle of the pack class for OW?

Because just saying "I'm a good NB" or "X is a good NB" doesn't give their opinion a pass. You need to be able to articulate where you think it's lacking because both on paper and based on my experience as one, MagBlade is pretty beast in solo mode.

Oh the irony

how is it pretty beast in "solo mode"? Is it beast at staying in stealth and never actually engaging? Beast at spamming resto ult to be able to stay alive? Beast at never being able to fully execute an opponent because no actual decent magblade runs a finisher due to bar space? Beast at being countered by wings, shimmering, dodge roll builds, mark, detect pots, trap under shade, etc?

Do you even play magblade solo, that's the question. It's far from "beast" in solo mode. Sure it's good in duels, or in a group, where you don't have to take the heat from multiple opponents at once. Once you get outnumbered, and cloak stops working cause some random light attack breaks it, some random pleb marks you, you don't have time to hit light attacks to build up your "burst" because your spammable has trash damage, I'm sure it'll still be beast then.

Funny thing is that it has EVERYTHING to do with experience. You can't go around and claim it's good just because you beat some random potatoes in cyro with it. I can't go around and say magdk is garbage, for example, just because I sucked ass when I tried to play it.

Just because you can run around spamming cloak and picking your targets doesn't make the class "beast".

thankyourat · March 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Magblade is a weak class for solo pvp. You shouldn't talk about classes that you've never played as if you knew what it was like.

For example, because I'm sure you won't take my opinion into consideration, blobs (one of the best magblades on PC EU) also thinks the class is lacking. Is he bad too? You're full of ***.

Magblades are extremely potent for 1v1s and group play, but when it comes to playing solo in cyro they're mediocre at best.

It's got nothing to do with being good or bad. I see plenty of good sorcs QQing that Sorc is bad. Does that mean Sorc is bad or they're bad Sorcs themselves? No, it makes their opinion perhaps biased or at least affected by the fact they play one class predominantly.

When you or Blobs say MagBlade is lacking, the immediate question in my head is "what exactly"? What is it MagBlades don't have that others do that makes them by your reckoning just a middle of the pack class for OW?

Because just saying "I'm a good NB" or "X is a good NB" doesn't give their opinion a pass. You need to be able to articulate where you think it's lacking because both on paper and based on my experience as one, MagBlade is pretty beast in solo mode.

It sounds crazy but what magblades lack in solo PvP is mobility it's been the same thing for 2 years now. If you don't play a 2hand build you have some major weakness. The lack of mobility with the class being squishy really kills destro magblade in open world and if you use double utility sets to become tanky you lose out on alot of burst. So most solo magblades who don't want to play 2hand will think the class is not that great. 2hand magblade is just average for 1v1 but it's good open world, but tanky builds give it trouble you are basically trying to burst players down with incap merciless but you have to run so much sustain to be able to use conceal as a spammable and keep cloak up that it can be impossible to burst down tankier players which means you may be better off just disengaging from the fight. In my mind a disengaged fight is a loss just a different form of horse simulator lol.

Where magblade shines is 1v1 and in small groups. sometimes in duels I can just bully players, even top players. So I can see why people think magblade is so strong. I personally hold duels as the last thing that should be used in determining balance though, and magblade similar to magsorc will struggle fighting multiple players and can melt pretty fast if you get focused. It's great if you get a couple people fighting with you though because you are free to stay on the outside free casting abilities and keeping your team headed and providing utility.

This is why I could never put magblade as number 1 right now. the class while being dominant 1v1 still has legit problems in cyrodiil. While again stam warden is literally good at everything

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Top tier

Stamblade (I have 1)
Stamplar
Mag DK (I have 1)

Second Tier

Stamden (I have 1)
Mag Sorc (I have 1)
Magden

Third Tier

Magblade
Magplar (I have 1)

Fourth Tier

Stam Sorc (I have 1)

Fifth Tier

?

Sixth Tier

Stam DK (Sadly, I have 1)

I think this is mostly accurate, but I would put magblade higher.

As a magblade main, I wouldn't.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Am I missing something? I had no idea people thought magblade was this good. Are we referring to bombers or what? Did the dragon bones patch buff them a lot?

Only bad players, and ''downplayers'' talked about magblade like its a weak class.

Magblade is a weak class for solo pvp. You shouldn't talk about classes that you've never played as if you knew what it was like.

For example, because I'm sure you won't take my opinion into consideration, blobs (one of the best magblades on PC EU) also thinks the class is lacking. Is he bad too? You're full of ***.

Magblades are extremely potent for 1v1s and group play, but when it comes to playing solo in cyro they're mediocre at best.

to be honest blobs is full of trashtalk. he is also ridicilously biased against stamina.Stamina this stamina that.
I don't personally hate the guy, but he trashtalked me on one of his streams for no freaking reason, so he lost my respect after that day.

You're saying magblade is a ''bad class for solo pvp''.

You do realize outside of nightblades and sorcs, no class is actually viable for solo pvp anymore, right?.

Magblade is basically better magsorc at the moment, Im tired of all this downplaying. Solo PvP isn't a metric for class balance anymore.