Where would you currently rate classes for PVP?

Waffennacht

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

These lists will make you think you’re playing a different game. I feel the class that really needs help is mag warden because offense wise you’re better off picking a sorc or magnb.

I swear to God I posted this in the pts. Gutting dive without compensation totally killed them.

But like, no shiz...

Minno

Sixty5 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Stamina Warden, Stamina NB, Magicka NB

.
.
.
.
Mag DK, Magplar, Stamplar
.
.
Mag Sroc
.
Stam Sorc
.
Stam DK
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Mag Warden

I'm curious why Mag Warden is so low?

I've found that they tend to always be pretty tough cookies.

The damage isn't gankblade level, but they still kill stuff pretty well.

Haven't been hit with a bird since the update.

Mag wardens have a big problems killing other players. No CC except for a delayed class skill that has to be aimed. No execute to take advantage if they happen to hit with said delayed class skill. No ultimate to aid with burst. Birds now do nothing but damage; delayed damage means it's super easy to dodge, which was the reason ZoS originally made it undodgable in the first place. Both their primary attacks are easily avoidable means they're really going to struggle Vs. better opponents

They are ok at being troll tanks, but that's about it. People may think they are fine because their stamina brethren are so damn strong or they have PTSD from undogable birds, but in two months I would bet real money mag wardens are going to be at or near the bottom of any poll.

I feel like Dawnbreaker would cover a lot of those weaknesses, though I can't say for sure given that I've never played a Magden myself

Dawnbreaker and force pulse while using Frost staff; then you can add enough DMG/sustain with another defense set. It's almost similar to magplar, except you really don't have a good spamable but you have minor evasion which can help offset the DMG that's incoming.

I should make a magden build soon.

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

These lists will make you think you’re playing a different game. I feel the class that really needs help is mag warden because offense wise you’re better off picking a sorc or magnb.

I swear to God I posted this in the pts. Gutting dive without compensation totally killed them.

But like, no shiz...

Yea but next update crit DMG is going to be changed hard so everyone running some healing will be nerfed; including stamina builds relying on solo vigor.

Maulkin

Waffennacht wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

These lists will make you think you’re playing a different game. I feel the class that really needs help is mag warden because offense wise you’re better off picking a sorc or magnb.

I swear to God I posted this in the pts. Gutting dive without compensation totally killed them.

But like, no shiz...

Agree too, but can't exactly pin the solution to that. I feel like the mag verion of Warden is missing a burst skill to coordinate with Deep Fissure. StamWarden has cheap DawnBreaker. Also StamDen is generally tankier, more survivable, quicker than MagDen. I've been thinking how MagDen would benefit from a Frag type skill to become a bit bustier. But I'm also worried that would make them suddenly OP, since coordinating a Fissure, Ice Meteor and "Frag" would basically melt pretty much anyone.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Are we playing the same Game??? And btw 90% of all Magblade in Open world PvP are bombers :-D

Maulkin

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Are we playing the same Game??? And btw 90% of all Magblade in Open world PvP are bombers :-D

No they are not. There's bombers in the large coordinated groups but that's about it. Most people that play solo, zerg serf or play in small groups....they play balanced builds. Not builds that require pocket healers and that die if they can't set up an 8" burst.

Lexxypwns

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

ak_pvp

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

TBF that isn't really the best way to play a stamDK. Defile, heroic and light+ransack+bash. Use fossilize and play like an *** for duels. Still underpowered, but better than the dizzy spammers.

Maulkin

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

I generally think people underestimate how well a damage oriented MagPlar can do in the BGs. Most play healbots or tanks and I kinda feel they don't use the class to its complete potential.

My mate refuses to play healbot and after a brief adapation period he's doing incredibly well playing as a balls-deep Templar. He plays a Destro/S&B Magplar with Masters Lightning staff and the only class I can reach his damage output with is MagDK. He regularly posts damage upwards of 1.5m. He often beats my DK damage output, which is phenomenal.

This screenshot below is from a BG couple of days ago against two against teams that were at least 3-man premades. The game ran out of time in the end and was quite tight. He posted 1.7m in no-cp BGs and grabbed more points than me despite me kill stealing as a Sorc. And no Zaan cheese or anything like that. He does this all the time, it's not a one-off.



TL;DR; Damage output of MagPlars is severely underestimated because more people play them as support class.

Minno

Maulkin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

I generally think people underestimate how well a damage oriented MagPlar can do in the BGs. Most play healbots or tanks and I kinda feel they don't use the class to its complete potential.

My mate refuses to play healbot and after a brief adapation period he's doing incredibly well playing as a balls-deep Templar. He plays a Destro/S&B Magplar with Masters Lightning staff and the only class I can reach his damage output with is MagDK. He regularly posts damage upwards of 1.5m. He often beats my DK damage output, which is phenomenal.

This screenshot below is from a BG couple of days ago against two against teams that were at least 3-man premades. The game ran out of time in the end and was quite tight. He posted 1.7m in no-cp BGs and grabbed more points than me despite me kill stealing as a Sorc. And no Zaan cheese or anything like that. He does this all the time, it's not a one-off.



TL;DR; Damage output of MagPlars is severely underestimated because more people play them as support class.

What sets he running?

Lighting staff + destro ultimate is hardly magplar specific.

NyassaV

Since you play BGs MagBlades are very powerful due to good sustain and shade. Using Shade in openworld can be a bit of a nightmare since for some reason the range is so damn short. It says 41 meters but it doesn't look or feel like it

jaws343

Stam nightblade
Mag nightblade
Stam Warden
Mag Warden/Stam Sorc
DK Stam/Mag
Mag Templar
Stam Templar
Mag Sorc

Out of all of those, I enjoy playing mag sorc and nightblades the most. But I find DKs to be the hardest to play against and hardest to play as so it straddles that middle line for me. Stam Wardens would be at the top for me if it wasn't for cloak and the effectiveness of incap.

CatchMeTrolling

Maulkin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

I generally think people underestimate how well a damage oriented MagPlar can do in the BGs. Most play healbots or tanks and I kinda feel they don't use the class to its complete potential.

My mate refuses to play healbot and after a brief adapation period he's doing incredibly well playing as a balls-deep Templar. He plays a Destro/S&B Magplar with Masters Lightning staff and the only class I can reach his damage output with is MagDK. He regularly posts damage upwards of 1.5m. He often beats my DK damage output, which is phenomenal.

This screenshot below is from a BG couple of days ago against two against teams that were at least 3-man premades. The game ran out of time in the end and was quite tight. He posted 1.7m in no-cp BGs and grabbed more points than me despite me kill stealing as a Sorc. And no Zaan cheese or anything like that. He does this all the time, it's not a one-off.



TL;DR; Damage output of MagPlars is severely underestimated because more people play them as support class.

I play my high elf Templar with a high damage setup like that but I’d like to add that since there was premades the damage numbers will be higher than normal since there’s more healing going out. You can see this just by looking at the last team scores on the box.

As for damage I think magdk and stam warden are the only class that can consistently compete with a damage Templar when it comes to numbers. The fact you can use sweeps, woe, shards, overwhelming, grothdar/Zaan now and even proxy det or ritual in a controlled fight like bgs it’s inevitable to get high damage. You hit multiple people with “unmitigated” damage/aoes. This is even more brutal in no cp because there’s less mitigation, standing in dots is asking for death.

If the enemy team lets me do whatever it’s going to be a good game and this is why as you can see he has high assists which is almost the same as kills now.

Waffennacht

Now that's a BG score.

Impressive

Waffennacht

.

Tryxus

StamBlade
StamDen
MagBlade
MagPlar
Stam Sorc
Mag DK/MagDen
StamPlar
Mag Sorc
Stam DK

Solariken

Stamwarden
Stamblade, magblade
.
.
.
MagDk
.
MagSorc, Stamplar
MagWarden, Magplar, Stamsorc, StamDk


I love these types of discussions, it's nice to hear how everyone feels about this. =]

It's worth noting that I think the six at the bottom are pretty even with each other and that magplar is higher on the list if grouped and Stamsorc is higher on the list if solo.

Sixty5

Solariken wrote: »

Stamwarden
Stamblade, magblade
.
.
.
MagDk
.
MagSorc, Stamplar
MagWarden, Magplar, Stamsorc, StamDk


I love these types of discussions, it's nice to hear how everyone feels about this. =]

It's worth noting that I think the six at the bottom are pretty even with each other and that magplar is higher on the list if grouped and Stamsorc is higher on the list if solo.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting to see where people feel classes are, and how people pretty consistently underrate what they play, unless they main one a Nightblade or Stamden.

Also, seems like Mag DK is doing pretty well for itself this patch, despite the fears that the class was completely gutted.

Maulkin

Minno wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

I generally think people underestimate how well a damage oriented MagPlar can do in the BGs. Most play healbots or tanks and I kinda feel they don't use the class to its complete potential.

My mate refuses to play healbot and after a brief adapation period he's doing incredibly well playing as a balls-deep Templar. He plays a Destro/S&B Magplar with Masters Lightning staff and the only class I can reach his damage output with is MagDK. He regularly posts damage upwards of 1.5m. He often beats my DK damage output, which is phenomenal.

This screenshot below is from a BG couple of days ago against two against teams that were at least 3-man premades. The game ran out of time in the end and was quite tight. He posted 1.7m in no-cp BGs and grabbed more points than me despite me kill stealing as a Sorc. And no Zaan cheese or anything like that. He does this all the time, it's not a one-off.



TL;DR; Damage output of MagPlars is severely underestimated because more people play them as support class.

What sets he running?

Lighting staff + destro ultimate is hardly magplar specific.

He's not using Destro ult, since he's got no gap closer on the bars which means every stam build can dodge roll once and sprint away from you. He's using Crescent on front bar and Rememberance on backbar.

He runs 5xSeducer on body, 5x Wiz Riposte on jewels and S&B backbar, 2xSkoria and Master's Lightning. He uses the Shock Reach as his CC after he lays on the DoTs. He's usually got 3 DoTs ticking on people from Vampire Bane, WoE and Shock Reach and when the Purifying Light, Crescent Sweep and Skoria sync... someone's gonna die.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

I generally think people underestimate how well a damage oriented MagPlar can do in the BGs. Most play healbots or tanks and I kinda feel they don't use the class to its complete potential.

My mate refuses to play healbot and after a brief adapation period he's doing incredibly well playing as a balls-deep Templar. He plays a Destro/S&B Magplar with Masters Lightning staff and the only class I can reach his damage output with is MagDK. He regularly posts damage upwards of 1.5m. He often beats my DK damage output, which is phenomenal.

This screenshot below is from a BG couple of days ago against two against teams that were at least 3-man premades. The game ran out of time in the end and was quite tight. He posted 1.7m in no-cp BGs and grabbed more points than me despite me kill stealing as a Sorc. And no Zaan cheese or anything like that. He does this all the time, it's not a one-off.



TL;DR; Damage output of MagPlars is severely underestimated because more people play them as support class.

I play my high elf Templar with a high damage setup like that but I’d like to add that since there was premades the damage numbers will be higher than normal since there’s more healing going out. You can see this just by looking at the last team scores on the box.

As for damage I think magdk and stam warden are the only class that can consistently compete with a damage Templar when it comes to numbers. The fact you can use sweeps, woe, shards, overwhelming, grothdar/Zaan now and even proxy det or ritual in a controlled fight like bgs it’s inevitable to get high damage. You hit multiple people with “unmitigated” damage/aoes. This is even more brutal in no cp because there’s less mitigation, standing in dots is asking for death.

If the enemy team lets me do whatever it’s going to be a good game and this is why as you can see he has high assists which is almost the same as kills now.

He's not playing damage setups, he's playing attacking playstyle. If he played damage setups nothing would touch his damage, and I mean nothing. Anyone will have higher damage in a long Deathmatch against premades, agreed. The fact is he has consistently higher damage than basically everyone, in chaosballs and crazy kings too. Against premades and against randoms. Occasionally he'll be out-damaged by a MagDK, but that's about it.

And you also have to consider that he brings amazing utility to our 2-made, that a MagDK and MagDen could never bring. MagDks brings CC and Snare, but between us, we have that covered. A MagDen would give me Major Protection once every minute and that's about it.

My mate has 350k heals to go with the the highest damage in the BG. That's invaluable. His emergency heals, his Extended Ritual HoT and purge synergy... these are all life savers for a Sorc like me who needs that kind of help to focus on bursting down targets and... well, kill stealing.

Just to reiterate my point: MagPlars have pretty high damage with some very good burst. They could really use an unblockable CC, like everyone else, but generally damage is not their problem. Just most people focus on support than damage.

ak_pvp

Tryxus wrote: »

StamBlade
StamDen
MagBlade
MagPlar
Stam Sorc
Mag DK/MagDen
StamPlar
Mag Sorc
Stam DK

I would put magsorc on MDK/Mden level, pretty good 1v1 and good in groups. Not great solo OW, but has some mobility for potatomashing. I'd put stamplar equal to stamsorc, way too underrated.

RinaldoGandolphi

1. Stam Blade
2. Stam Warden
3. Stam Sorc
4. Stam Templar
5. Stam DK
6. Mag NB
7. Mag Sorc
8. Mag DK
9. Mag Templar
10. Mag Warden

Speaking of the Mag Warden, I just recently finished leveling mine. I wanted to play it because not only is it under-represented, its significantly harder to play then most other classes if you want to play anything other then a tank.

Screaming Cliff Racer being dodgeable really hurt Magicka Warden badly, and to be frank that change needs to be reverted, or the skill needs to be an instant cast with no travel time on the bird...the bird has a nearly 2 second delay after casting before it does anything, its impossible to hit anyone with it because of that. (make the Bird as fast as Templar Javelin, so its much harder to dodge)

Right now Mag Wardens are mediocre damage dealers, average healers, and pretty good tanks...but they are not as good at any of those roles as other classes are.

I'll continue playing Magden in pvp despite is being on the bottom tier.

Waffennacht

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

1. Stam Blade
2. Stam Warden
3. Stam Sorc
4. Stam Templar
5. Stam DK
6. Mag NB
7. Mag Sorc
8. Mag DK
9. Mag Templar
10. Mag Warden

Speaking of the Mag Warden, I just recently finished leveling mine. I wanted to play it because not only is it under-represented, its significantly harder to play then most other classes if you want to play anything other then a tank.

Screaming Cliff Racer being dodgeable really hurt Magicka Warden badly, and to be frank that change needs to be reverted, or the skill needs to be an instant cast with no travel time on the bird...the bird has a nearly 2 second delay after casting before it does anything, its impossible to hit anyone with it because of that. (make the Bird as fast as Templar Javelin, so its much harder to dodge)

Right now Mag Wardens are mediocre damage dealers, average healers, and pretty good tanks...but they are not as good at any of those roles as other classes are.

I'll continue playing Magden in pvp despite is being on the bottom tier.

There was this guy.... Whom like screamed bloody murder about how Magden relied heavily on an undodgeable bird to be effective and that it would seriously gimp the class if it was changed without any compensation....

I wanna say he made a 6 page thread about it in the pts...

I think he was right...

I wonder whom that masked man was?

Joy_Division

Maulkin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

I generally think people underestimate how well a damage oriented MagPlar can do in the BGs. Most play healbots or tanks and I kinda feel they don't use the class to its complete potential.

My mate refuses to play healbot and after a brief adapation period he's doing incredibly well playing as a balls-deep Templar. He plays a Destro/S&B Magplar with Masters Lightning staff and the only class I can reach his damage output with is MagDK. He regularly posts damage upwards of 1.5m. He often beats my DK damage output, which is phenomenal.

This screenshot below is from a BG couple of days ago against two against teams that were at least 3-man premades. The game ran out of time in the end and was quite tight. He posted 1.7m in no-cp BGs and grabbed more points than me despite me kill stealing as a Sorc. And no Zaan cheese or anything like that. He does this all the time, it's not a one-off.



TL;DR; Damage output of MagPlars is severely underestimated because more people play them as support class.

I don't think it's necessarily underestimated. In fact, templars probably would have the easiest time hitting the highest damage total because it has a 2 AoE Dots, Purifying Light is ridiculously easy to get max hits with 7 other people inadvertently ramping the damage pool, and an AoE spammable. A Templar who also slots elemental blockade probably cannot be matched in terms of damage output in a BG.

This issue is that the damage is dispersed, when in BGs and PvP in general, you rather have it concentrated and focused as that is what gets kills. So 1.7 million damage and only 7 KBs. Templars forced into a 1v1 or worse 1vX Vs. a similarly skilled opponent might get flashy damage values, but is going to struggle securing the kill and winning the fights because it is difficult to focus that damage and the "I'm now offense, now I'm on defense" predictable phases templar game-play is all about.

I don't think the PvP community ihas missed out on the offensive potential of templars. Builds, combinations, FOTM, etc., get around real quick as there is a lot of copycats out there. If offensive predator type templar builds were easy, fluid, natural, etc., I think we'd see a lot of them - most people who PvP want to kill other players at the end of the day.

Sure, your friend, myself, and other templars out there discard the "healbot" stereotype. And for more often than not, we make it work. But it's not easy, it's awkward, too often it means fighting against what the class does well and does not do well, and ultimately a big reason we make it work is we have so much experience with playing a Magplar (more so that the strengths of magplar). Only so many times you go "balls-deep" and then realize your f***** because your opponent(s) are just as experienced as you are and using a class that is better suited for melee single target encounter. Since there's no streak, cloak, or anyway out of the situation before you want to throw your computer out the window.

Jjitsuboy98

ak_pvp wrote: »

Depends what for:

Duels:
MagDK
MagNB/StamNB, Magsorc
Stamden, stamplar
Magplar
Stamsorc, Magden
StamDK

Openworld solo:
StamNB
Stamden
MagNB, Magden
Stamplar Stamsorc, Magsorc
StamDK, MagDK, Magplar

Openworld small group: (Full groups are basically just magsorcs, magplars, magNBs)
Magplar
Magden
Magsorc, Stamden, MagNB
Stamden, StamNB, MagDK
Stamsorc, stamDK

BGs:
Earthgore
Rest

BGs depend really, every class is viable. Nbs do it best, healbots are also quite a pain

I fully disagree on Stam dk being at the bottom in duels. Just my opinion and play experience since Stam dk is my main followed by Magicka dk.

CatchMeTrolling

Maulkin wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

I generally think people underestimate how well a damage oriented MagPlar can do in the BGs. Most play healbots or tanks and I kinda feel they don't use the class to its complete potential.

My mate refuses to play healbot and after a brief adapation period he's doing incredibly well playing as a balls-deep Templar. He plays a Destro/S&B Magplar with Masters Lightning staff and the only class I can reach his damage output with is MagDK. He regularly posts damage upwards of 1.5m. He often beats my DK damage output, which is phenomenal.

This screenshot below is from a BG couple of days ago against two against teams that were at least 3-man premades. The game ran out of time in the end and was quite tight. He posted 1.7m in no-cp BGs and grabbed more points than me despite me kill stealing as a Sorc. And no Zaan cheese or anything like that. He does this all the time, it's not a one-off.



TL;DR; Damage output of MagPlars is severely underestimated because more people play them as support class.

What sets he running?

Lighting staff + destro ultimate is hardly magplar specific.

He's not using Destro ult, since he's got no gap closer on the bars which means every stam build can dodge roll once and sprint away from you. He's using Crescent on front bar and Rememberance on backbar.

He runs 5xSeducer on body, 5x Wiz Riposte on jewels and S&B backbar, 2xSkoria and Master's Lightning. He uses the Shock Reach as his CC after he lays on the DoTs. He's usually got 3 DoTs ticking on people from Vampire Bane, WoE and Shock Reach and when the Purifying Light, Crescent Sweep and Skoria sync... someone's gonna die.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

I generally think people underestimate how well a damage oriented MagPlar can do in the BGs. Most play healbots or tanks and I kinda feel they don't use the class to its complete potential.

My mate refuses to play healbot and after a brief adapation period he's doing incredibly well playing as a balls-deep Templar. He plays a Destro/S&B Magplar with Masters Lightning staff and the only class I can reach his damage output with is MagDK. He regularly posts damage upwards of 1.5m. He often beats my DK damage output, which is phenomenal.

This screenshot below is from a BG couple of days ago against two against teams that were at least 3-man premades. The game ran out of time in the end and was quite tight. He posted 1.7m in no-cp BGs and grabbed more points than me despite me kill stealing as a Sorc. And no Zaan cheese or anything like that. He does this all the time, it's not a one-off.



TL;DR; Damage output of MagPlars is severely underestimated because more people play them as support class.

I play my high elf Templar with a high damage setup like that but I’d like to add that since there was premades the damage numbers will be higher than normal since there’s more healing going out. You can see this just by looking at the last team scores on the box.

As for damage I think magdk and stam warden are the only class that can consistently compete with a damage Templar when it comes to numbers. The fact you can use sweeps, woe, shards, overwhelming, grothdar/Zaan now and even proxy det or ritual in a controlled fight like bgs it’s inevitable to get high damage. You hit multiple people with “unmitigated” damage/aoes. This is even more brutal in no cp because there’s less mitigation, standing in dots is asking for death.

If the enemy team lets me do whatever it’s going to be a good game and this is why as you can see he has high assists which is almost the same as kills now.

He's not playing damage setups, he's playing attacking playstyle. If he played damage setups nothing would touch his damage, and I mean nothing. Anyone will have higher damage in a long Deathmatch against premades, agreed. The fact is he has consistently higher damage than basically everyone, in chaosballs and crazy kings too. Against premades and against randoms. Occasionally he'll be out-damaged by a MagDK, but that's about it.

And you also have to consider that he brings amazing utility to our 2-made, that a MagDK and MagDen could never bring. MagDks brings CC and Snare, but between us, we have that covered. A MagDen would give me Major Protection once every minute and that's about it.

My mate has 350k heals to go with the the highest damage in the BG. That's invaluable. His emergency heals, his Extended Ritual HoT and purge synergy... these are all life savers for a Sorc like me who needs that kind of help to focus on bursting down targets and... well, kill stealing.

Just to reiterate my point: MagPlars have pretty high damage with some very good burst. They could really use an unblockable CC, like everyone else, but generally damage is not their problem. Just most people focus on support than damage.

Even with those sets in bgs you’ll have high damage because of the dots and aoes that hit multiple people. I run the same sets on my argonian except I use snb/resto and grothdar. But I’d say magplar has good sustained damage, little burst. The “burst” is reliant on a pol proc, but bottom tier in terms of burst. The strength of magplar damage is building for pressured damage. Although I guess some will say they’re bursty because of pol and possibly skoria. But if we’re considering that bursty some other classes must be god tier.

The reason people don’t go full glass is because magplar doesn’t need to wear a damage set and when they go full damage the weakness of the class is exposed in certain situations. Such as solo and not having the luxury of decent players around you in a bg match.

technohic

Stamwarden, Stamblade
Magblade, MagDK
-
Stamsorc, Stamplar
Magplar
Magsorc
Magwarden
StamDK

BohnT

@ZOS_Wrobel can you maybe spot a pattern which spec is always on the bottom?

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade - Top tier duel spec, cloak shadow image, will, incap, cripple, mark. Best large group damage spec. Crazy versatile.
Stam Warden - Big burst, great mobility, insane healing
Stamblade - more cloak reliant than mageblade due to lack of proper mitigation tools outside of dodge+cloak
Stamplar - big burst, good heals, the only stam class that can counter defile meta
Mag DK - lacks mobility but has excellent fight control tools, if an mDK gets the upper hand in a fight it is difficult to regain that control without defiles
Magplar - generally low damage, but they’ve got a couple of opportunistic skill that allow them to capitalize on mistakes
Mag Warden - kinda weak solo, insanely strong in group play
Stam Sorc - now that dark deal can’t reliably be interrupted they’ve slide ahead of their magika counterpart because they’re able to build much more burst and they’re more mobile
Mag Sorc - predictable burst and small offensive windows limit mag sorc, it’s mobility and propensity to 100-0 noobs keep it viable
Stam DK - aww, look at that cute little guy with the Dizzying-Leap combo that only take 30% of your health, poor thing

I generally think people underestimate how well a damage oriented MagPlar can do in the BGs. Most play healbots or tanks and I kinda feel they don't use the class to its complete potential.

My mate refuses to play healbot and after a brief adapation period he's doing incredibly well playing as a balls-deep Templar. He plays a Destro/S&B Magplar with Masters Lightning staff and the only class I can reach his damage output with is MagDK. He regularly posts damage upwards of 1.5m. He often beats my DK damage output, which is phenomenal.

This screenshot below is from a BG couple of days ago against two against teams that were at least 3-man premades. The game ran out of time in the end and was quite tight. He posted 1.7m in no-cp BGs and grabbed more points than me despite me kill stealing as a Sorc. And no Zaan cheese or anything like that. He does this all the time, it's not a one-off.



TL;DR; Damage output of MagPlars is severely underestimated because more people play them as support class.

I don't think it's necessarily underestimated. In fact, templars probably would have the easiest time hitting the highest damage total because it has a 2 AoE Dots, Purifying Light is ridiculously easy to get max hits with 7 other people inadvertently ramping the damage pool, and an AoE spammable. A Templar who also slots elemental blockade probably cannot be matched in terms of damage output in a BG.

This issue is that the damage is dispersed, when in BGs and PvP in general, you rather have it concentrated and focused as that is what gets kills. So 1.7 million damage and only 7 KBs. Templars forced into a 1v1 or worse 1vX Vs. a similarly skilled opponent might get flashy damage values, but is going to struggle securing the kill and winning the fights because it is difficult to focus that damage and the "I'm now offense, now I'm on defense" predictable phases templar game-play is all about.

I don't think the PvP community ihas missed out on the offensive potential of templars. Builds, combinations, FOTM, etc., get around real quick as there is a lot of copycats out there. If offensive predator type templar builds were easy, fluid, natural, etc., I think we'd see a lot of them - most people who PvP want to kill other players at the end of the day.

Sure, your friend, myself, and other templars out there discard the "healbot" stereotype. And for more often than not, we make it work. But it's not easy, it's awkward, too often it means fighting against what the class does well and does not do well, and ultimately a big reason we make it work is we have so much experience with playing a Magplar (more so that the strengths of magplar). Only so many times you go "balls-deep" and then realize your f***** because your opponent(s) are just as experienced as you are and only a class that is better suited for melee single target encounter and there's no streak, cloak, or anyway out of the situation before you want to throw your computer out the window.

Thanks Joy! I was just about to comment exactly like this.

I think it's important to know in structured 2 man premades, the Templar shines. But the second you go solo and face 2 players at a flag (which happens more than often), the AOE DPS rout for damage doesn't work as well. This is because you are stuck behind a 6 second burst window but trying to fight instant cast enemies during those 6 seconds. I'd never use shards in PvP, because the by the time the skill drops, I will have taken enough DMG to be sent close to execute range forcing me to be defensive. Then the dot DMG is wasted because I was forced to be defensive, wasting my 6 second purfying light window.

It certainly helps if you have a buddy applying CC, but there is a reason templars use more defensive sets than other classes; and it certainly isn't because we want to be annoying healbots. Our class was designed to apply miss chance and off balance passively; both of which were stripped to give DD Templars an execute which also ironically pushed Templars towards more tanky builds.

To compare to his buddies DMG heres my latest BG:
https://youtu.be/HcB9YptIUq0
I may have done just under 600k DMG here, but I also have roughly 14 kills/10 assists (which translates to either being faster enough in my offensive window to score the killing blow or having enough defense to be solo against 2 players yet still score a kill while also switching seamlessly to support DPS for the assists). And I still die, despite building more in defense.

Amdar_Godkiller

Top tier

Stamblade (I have 1)
Stamplar
Mag DK (I have 1)


Second Tier

Stamden (I have 1)
Mag Sorc (I have 1)
Magden

Third Tier

Magblade
Magplar (I have 1)


Fourth Tier

Stam Sorc (I have 1)


Fifth Tier

?


Sixth Tier

Stam DK (Sadly, I have 1)

Ragnarock41

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Top tier

Stamblade (I have 1)
Stamplar
Mag DK (I have 1)


Second Tier

Stamden (I have 1)
Mag Sorc (I have 1)
Magden

Third Tier

Magblade
Magplar (I have 1)


Fourth Tier

Stam Sorc (I have 1)


Fifth Tier

?


Sixth Tier

Stam DK (Sadly, I have 1)

I think this is mostly accurate, but I would put magblade higher.